Not everyone can be smart. EV madness.
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2024 Jan 20, 2:37pm 3,603 views 84 comments
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44
richwicks
2024 Mar 31, 12:54am
richwicks
2024 Mar 31, 12:54am
AD says
I doubt this. Hydrogen fuel cells are a very poor way to store energy. First, it's not made by cracking water into oxygen and hydrogen, it's using steam reformation where natural gas is turned into CO2 and Hydrogen in a process. Second, hydrogen is expensive. Third, it's freaking hard to store, that stuff is reactive, very reactive. Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.
Using electrolysis to break water into hydrogen and oxygen seems like a good idea, until you realize it's only 50% efficient. Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule, and as I said, highly reactive so hard to store.
Another problem is compressing it, THAT takes a lot of energy as well. It's like 5 times more expensive than gas per unit of energy as well.
I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.
I doubt this. Hydrogen fuel cells are a very poor way to store energy. First, it's not made by cracking water into oxygen and hydrogen, it's using steam reformation where natural gas is turned into CO2 and Hydrogen in a process. Second, hydrogen is expensive. Third, it's freaking hard to store, that stuff is reactive, very reactive. Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.
Using electrolysis to break water into hydrogen and oxygen seems like a good idea, until you realize it's only 50% efficient. Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule, and as I said, highly reactive so hard to store.
Another problem is compressing it, THAT takes a lot of energy as well. It's like 5 times more expensive than gas per unit of energy as well.
45
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Mar 31, 7:59am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Mar 31, 7:59am
richwicks says
And the little fucker Hydrogen atoms can slip through the steel molecules. So, leakage losses.
Put it under pressure on a steel cylinder, and that cylinder will get brittle in time.
And the little fucker Hydrogen atoms can slip through the steel molecules. So, leakage losses.
46
HeadSet
2024 Mar 31, 8:49am
HeadSet
2024 Mar 31, 8:49am
richwicks says
?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.
Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule
?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.
47
Tenpoundbass
2024 Mar 31, 9:33am
Tenpoundbass
2024 Mar 31, 9:33am
EV enthusiasts : Of Course EVs will be expense at first! But the idea is for everyone to adopt them so the price will eventually come down. I don't mind being an early adopter.
Also EV enthusiasts : What the fuck my $65K EV is now only worth $20K
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Also EV enthusiasts : What the fuck my $65K EV is now only worth $20K
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
48
richwicks
2024 Mar 31, 10:39am
richwicks
2024 Mar 31, 10:39am
HeadSet says
Nope, it's got the lowest density of any molecule or atom, that's why it floats. It floats better than helium does, but its highly reactive.
You've seen the periodic table:
On the left, atoms are as big as they can be, and they get smaller going to the right, but they explode in size on the far right. On the far right are the noble. I think only helium is more dense than the element on the far right.
Basically, every element has one more proton than the element preceding it. Picks up neutrons as well, so as you move down, it gets denser and denser.
A chemist or a physicist can explain why better than I can.
richwicks says
Hydrogen has GREAT energy density in terms of kg/joule - better than just about anything, but it's bulky because it's a large molecule
?? Isn't hydrogen the smallest possible molecule? An H2 molecule has only 2 hydrogen atoms, each with only one proton and one electron.
Nope, it's got the lowest density of any molecule or atom, that's why it floats. It floats better than helium does, but its highly reactive.
You've seen the periodic table:
On the left, atoms are as big as they can be, and they get smaller going to the right, but they explode in size on the far right. On the far right are the noble. I think only helium is more dense than the element on the far right.
Basically, every element has one more proton than the element preceding it. Picks up neutrons as well, so as you move down, it gets denser and denser.
A chemist or a physicist can explain why better than I can.
49
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Mar 31, 11:19am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Mar 31, 11:19am
Hydrogen's reactivity IS WHERE the energy comes from. Oxidation in particular.
50
richwicks
2024 Mar 31, 11:26am
richwicks
2024 Mar 31, 11:26am
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Sure, but it's damned reactive. It makes metal brittle over time, so how do you contain the damned stuff?
It sure seemed like a good idea back when I was a kid to use hydrogen to store excess electricity for later use, but it turns out to be a terrible way of doing it
Hydrogen's reactivity IS WHERE the energy comes from. Oxidation in particular.
Sure, but it's damned reactive. It makes metal brittle over time, so how do you contain the damned stuff?
It sure seemed like a good idea back when I was a kid to use hydrogen to store excess electricity for later use, but it turns out to be a terrible way of doing it
51
RWSGFY
2024 Mar 31, 8:21pm
RWSGFY
2024 Mar 31, 8:21pm
AD says
Toyota is into 2nd gen
of their H2 fuel cell cars and it's not looking good: they are giving $22-40K discount on every new one and throw in $15K fuel card. Even used ones come with the card. There is a 2019 Mirai with 30K miles on the clock being sold as CPO for $9K at the local dealer and it comes with a $15K card. And it's eligible for $4K in Fed tax rebates plus whatever is CA giving out ($2K?).
BTW, at current hydrogen fuel prices $15K gives you ~30K miles.
I think Tesla will still be standing, but as posted on Patrick.net, the major automakers are downsizing their EV manufacturing.
I think Tesla is going to be improving steadily such as providing up to 600 miles range for even the cheapest of its EV's, the Tesla 3. And this will happen with Tesla still using lithium batteries.
I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.
Toyota is into 2nd gen
of their H2 fuel cell cars and it's not looking good: they are giving $22-40K discount on every new one and throw in $15K fuel card. Even used ones come with the card. There is a 2019 Mirai with 30K miles on the clock being sold as CPO for $9K at the local dealer and it comes with a $15K card. And it's eligible for $4K in Fed tax rebates plus whatever is CA giving out ($2K?).
BTW, at current hydrogen fuel prices $15K gives you ~30K miles.
52
WookieMan
2024 Apr 1, 3:04am
WookieMan
2024 Apr 1, 3:04am
Love or hate the car, but Toyota did get it right with the Prius. Not practical for my uses, but hybrids were and are the future. You need gas. That's undeniable. You cannot charge a battery quickly.
Wife is about to drive down to St. Louis area. She'd have to stop and charge and waste an hour to finish the trip. She grosses $913/hr in sales likely this year. 365 days, every hour. That hour charging cost $900. Who cares if it's free? That would be $60 in gas and maybe $30 in time. You're talking a $700-800 difference in time savings. AND you paid more for the car than her SUV. An EV would easily cost my family $10k more than an ICE. So maybe I'm biased.
I don't get the argument over this. EV's are shit unless you drive 10-20 miles a day and charge at home. I guess my opinion is based off our driving habits. No EV on the market would remotely work for us without losing tons of money.
Wife is about to drive down to St. Louis area. She'd have to stop and charge and waste an hour to finish the trip. She grosses $913/hr in sales likely this year. 365 days, every hour. That hour charging cost $900. Who cares if it's free? That would be $60 in gas and maybe $30 in time. You're talking a $700-800 difference in time savings. AND you paid more for the car than her SUV. An EV would easily cost my family $10k more than an ICE. So maybe I'm biased.
I don't get the argument over this. EV's are shit unless you drive 10-20 miles a day and charge at home. I guess my opinion is based off our driving habits. No EV on the market would remotely work for us without losing tons of money.
54
socal2
2024 Apr 2, 6:32pm
WookieMan says
That is over 60% of the available US car market!
Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.
Hybrids are still retarded with twice the complexity and twice the maintenance and things to go wrong compared to straight up BEV's - they are not much cheaper and you don't get the massive performance of a Tesla. I don't drive Tesla's to save gas or be environmental. I drive them because they are the most powerful and advanced car I can afford. How is that not understandable? I can't afford a comparable Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
I spend alot of time driving - life's too short to drive something boring or weak if you have some options.
EV's are shit unless you drive 10-20 miles a day and charge at home.
That is over 60% of the available US car market!
Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.
Hybrids are still retarded with twice the complexity and twice the maintenance and things to go wrong compared to straight up BEV's - they are not much cheaper and you don't get the massive performance of a Tesla. I don't drive Tesla's to save gas or be environmental. I drive them because they are the most powerful and advanced car I can afford. How is that not understandable? I can't afford a comparable Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
I spend alot of time driving - life's too short to drive something boring or weak if you have some options.
55
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Apr 2, 7:40pm
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Apr 2, 7:40pm
socal2 says
That is over 60% of the available US car market!
Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.
Hybrids are still retarded with twice the complexity and twice the maintenance and things to go wrong compared to straight up BEV's - they are not much cheaper and you don't get the massive performance of a Tesla. I don't drive Tesla's to save gas or be environmental. I drive them because they are the most powerful and advanced car I can afford. How is that not understandable? I can't afford a comparable Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
I spend alot of time driving - life's too short to drive something boring or weak if you have some options.
57
WookieMan
2024 Jul 25, 1:22am
WookieMan
2024 Jul 25, 1:22am
socal2 says
You live in CA. Where I live in IL I'd be constantly worried about running out of juice. I'm going to Wisconsin tomorrow and would need to charge on the way up making the trip 30 minutes longer and then having to use a friends electric to charge.
Go to Bozeman, MT and go for a hike in an EV. Enjoy being stranded. It's an hour in mountains one way and there's nothing in range to charge. You're climbing from 4k to 9k feet to get to a good hike or activity. Fishing. Throw in rugged roads.
CA is a big state. Mostly urban. EV's don't work in most of the country once you factor in cold weather. EV lovers need to get out of their bubble.
That is over 60% of the available US car market!
Tesla can't be everything for everyone, but the available US market is plenty big.
You live in CA. Where I live in IL I'd be constantly worried about running out of juice. I'm going to Wisconsin tomorrow and would need to charge on the way up making the trip 30 minutes longer and then having to use a friends electric to charge.
Go to Bozeman, MT and go for a hike in an EV. Enjoy being stranded. It's an hour in mountains one way and there's nothing in range to charge. You're climbing from 4k to 9k feet to get to a good hike or activity. Fishing. Throw in rugged roads.
CA is a big state. Mostly urban. EV's don't work in most of the country once you factor in cold weather. EV lovers need to get out of their bubble.
58
socal2
2024 Jul 25, 8:38am
WookieMan says
I just got back from a week vacation visiting relatives in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. I rented a GMC (Arcadia?) and we drove over 800 miles. Alot of it was on back country roads and away from the freeways. But I ran my route through Tesla's navigation and there were still plenty of Tesla Superchargers that would make the drive totally easy.
The GMC didn't even have adaptive cruise control......let alone lane assist. It was tiring and less enjoyable to have to manually drive all 800 miles. But it did have a big gas tank and we only had to fill up a few times.
You live in CA. Where I live in IL I'd be constantly worried about running out of juice. I'm going to Wisconsin tomorrow and would need to charge on the way up making the trip 30 minutes longer and then having to use a friends electric to charge.
I just got back from a week vacation visiting relatives in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. I rented a GMC (Arcadia?) and we drove over 800 miles. Alot of it was on back country roads and away from the freeways. But I ran my route through Tesla's navigation and there were still plenty of Tesla Superchargers that would make the drive totally easy.
The GMC didn't even have adaptive cruise control......let alone lane assist. It was tiring and less enjoyable to have to manually drive all 800 miles. But it did have a big gas tank and we only had to fill up a few times.
61
RWSGFY
2024 Jul 25, 1:07pm
RWSGFY
2024 Jul 25, 1:07pm
Fun fact: Hertz didn't offer a single EV at their Indianspolis airport location when I visited last spring.
62
GNL
2024 Jul 25, 1:12pm
GNL
2024 Jul 25, 1:12pm
socal2 says
Hmm, my bad. I was sure you were the one telling us that you bought one.
GNL says
You mean you didn’t take your cyber truck?
Can't afford one yet.
Hmm, my bad. I was sure you were the one telling us that you bought one.
64
HeadSet
2024 Aug 18, 7:12am
HeadSet
2024 Aug 18, 7:12am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car. Maybe she is thinking of the Buicks long ago that had the gas filler tube under the license plate. Just get behind the car, pull down the cover (license plate) stick in the tube and pump in the fluid.
Consumer Reports video on Tesla:
A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car. Maybe she is thinking of the Buicks long ago that had the gas filler tube under the license plate. Just get behind the car, pull down the cover (license plate) stick in the tube and pump in the fluid.
65
WookieMan
2024 Aug 18, 9:05am
WookieMan
2024 Aug 18, 9:05am
HeadSet says
Besides the annoying tat sleeve, she's not wrong about Tesla. They're gay looking cars. The Cyber Truck is like the Pontiac Aztek. The only reason I'd get a cyber truck is as an investment. In 20-30 when it's "vintage" it will be worth a ton because they will stop production of them in the next 5 years after the market is saturated.
I'll beat the horse dead on this topic, but until they get a full sized SUV with range, I'll never buy one. Even then I'm not gonna fork over the likely $150k price tag it would require. And I don't have the patience to sit at a charging station for 30 minutes to get 200 more miles.
A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car. Maybe she is thinking of the Buicks long ago that had the gas filler tube under the license plate. Just get behind the car, pull down the cover (license plate) stick in the tube and pump in the fluid.
Besides the annoying tat sleeve, she's not wrong about Tesla. They're gay looking cars. The Cyber Truck is like the Pontiac Aztek. The only reason I'd get a cyber truck is as an investment. In 20-30 when it's "vintage" it will be worth a ton because they will stop production of them in the next 5 years after the market is saturated.
I'll beat the horse dead on this topic, but until they get a full sized SUV with range, I'll never buy one. Even then I'm not gonna fork over the likely $150k price tag it would require. And I don't have the patience to sit at a charging station for 30 minutes to get 200 more miles.
66
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Aug 18, 9:39am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Aug 18, 9:39am
HeadSet says
Looks to be in the back of the car to me. That's sure as hell not the front or middle. But not too far from where gasoline pumps go in ICE cars, too.
A Tesla's charge port is on the side of the car
Looks to be in the back of the car to me. That's sure as hell not the front or middle. But not too far from where gasoline pumps go in ICE cars, too.
67
WookieMan
2024 Aug 18, 10:04am
WookieMan
2024 Aug 18, 10:04am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
Does it matter really? I know I wouldn't be caught driving that. What can it do? Haul a family of 4 to the local Chili's for dinner and then you have to plug it in at night. Sign me up.... not.
I probably live different than most users here is my guess. We do things with our vehicles. I tow at least twice a week. Regardless of the charging plug, what use is that car? Seriously. I'll take this 10 out of 10 times https://www.toyota.com/sequoia/
Has a 3rd row. ~9k towing capacity. Can fit 8. 400 miles on gas that takes 5 minutes to fill up tops. Is $30-40k cheaper than a Cyber Truck. So I've saved 6-8 years of gas and insurance already. I really want someone to change my mind on EV's. I don't want self driving. EV's cost more by 20% at least, so you're not saving money there. What is the point?
No one anywhere has sold me on them remotely. I have friends that have them and said it was a midlife crisis purchase and they just wanted one. No different than a corvette or some other sports car. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a logical reason to drop $20k more on a car than necessary.
Looks to be in the back of the car to me. That's sure as hell not the front or middle. But not too far from where gasoline pumps go in ICE cars, too.
Does it matter really? I know I wouldn't be caught driving that. What can it do? Haul a family of 4 to the local Chili's for dinner and then you have to plug it in at night. Sign me up.... not.
I probably live different than most users here is my guess. We do things with our vehicles. I tow at least twice a week. Regardless of the charging plug, what use is that car? Seriously. I'll take this 10 out of 10 times https://www.toyota.com/sequoia/
Has a 3rd row. ~9k towing capacity. Can fit 8. 400 miles on gas that takes 5 minutes to fill up tops. Is $30-40k cheaper than a Cyber Truck. So I've saved 6-8 years of gas and insurance already. I really want someone to change my mind on EV's. I don't want self driving. EV's cost more by 20% at least, so you're not saving money there. What is the point?
No one anywhere has sold me on them remotely. I have friends that have them and said it was a midlife crisis purchase and they just wanted one. No different than a corvette or some other sports car. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a logical reason to drop $20k more on a car than necessary.
68
RWSGFY
2024 Aug 18, 10:40am
RWSGFY
2024 Aug 18, 10:40am
I find statements like "oh, it's such a grind to go to a gas station once a two or three weeks" or "it's so hellishly tiresome to drive 300 miles on an Indiana freeway w/o a dozen of driver aids" hilariously overblown. It's not and it's not. Maybe (and if) I'm 90 and in poor health, but not now. Thank God.
69
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Sep 20, 10:31am
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked
2024 Sep 20, 10:31am
August EV sales in Germany were down 69% y-o-y, and down 44% across the EU.
Wonder what they are for the US.
Wonder what they are for the US.
70
Eric Holder
2024 Sep 20, 1:59pm
Eric Holder
2024 Sep 20, 1:59pm
Zee Germanz like to drive fast on the Authobahn and EVs are no bueno for that.
71
HeadSet
2024 Sep 20, 2:20pm
HeadSet
2024 Sep 20, 2:20pm
Eric Holder says
?? Won't a Model S hold its own against Porshe, et al?
Zee Germanz like to drive fast on the Authobahn and EVs are no bueno for that.
?? Won't a Model S hold its own against Porshe, et al?
72
socal2
2024 Sep 20, 2:46pm
HeadSet says
A Model S Plaid or Model 3 Ludicrous will smoke a Porsche and every other car on the road less than $250,000. Hell - my middle to low trim Model Y will smoke 98% of the cars on the road.
Germany's economy is tanking due to sky high energy prices due to their idiocy of dismantling their nuke plants and the war in Ukraine impacting their ability to get cheaper gas from Russia.
?? Won't a Model S hold its own against Porshe, et al?
A Model S Plaid or Model 3 Ludicrous will smoke a Porsche and every other car on the road less than $250,000. Hell - my middle to low trim Model Y will smoke 98% of the cars on the road.
Germany's economy is tanking due to sky high energy prices due to their idiocy of dismantling their nuke plants and the war in Ukraine impacting their ability to get cheaper gas from Russia.
73
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 20, 3:55pm
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 20, 3:55pm
HeadSet says
On Zee Autobahn? LOL
Here's a hint: the Cannonball run record time for gas cars is currently sitting at less than 26 hours. For EVs it's over 42 hrs. All you need to know.
Eric Holder says
Zee Germanz like to drive fast on the Authobahn and EVs are no bueno for that.
?? Won't a Model S hold its own against Porshe, et al?
On Zee Autobahn? LOL
Here's a hint: the Cannonball run record time for gas cars is currently sitting at less than 26 hours. For EVs it's over 42 hrs. All you need to know.
74
socal2
2024 Sep 20, 4:09pm
RWSGFY says
Good thing that 99.999% of the available US car market will never have to do a Cannonball run.
Would you be impressed if GM came out with a sedan that had a 150 gallon gas tank so it could drive coast to coast without stopping for fuel?
Here's a hint: the Cannonball run record time for gas cars is currently sitting at less than 26 hours. For EVs it's over 42 hrs. All you need to know.
Good thing that 99.999% of the available US car market will never have to do a Cannonball run.
Would you be impressed if GM came out with a sedan that had a 150 gallon gas tank so it could drive coast to coast without stopping for fuel?
75
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 20, 4:13pm
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 20, 4:13pm
socal2 says
But we're talking about Zee Germanz and their beloved Autobahn, aren't we? If you ever driven Tesla you know that it gets very unhappy and loses range very fast when driven above 70 mph. 70 mph is painfully slow for Zee Autobahn. And if you drive at 120+
mph, you'll spend the better part of the day charging and recharging and recharging some more. Kinda like with EVs and towing.
RWSGFY says
Here's a hint: the Cannonball run record time for gas cars is currently sitting at less than 26 hours. For EVs it's over 42 hrs. All you need to know.
Good thing that 99.999% of the available US car market will never have to do a Cannonball run.
Would you be impressed if GM came out with a sedan that had a 150 gallon gas tank so it could drive coast to coast without stopping for fuel?
But we're talking about Zee Germanz and their beloved Autobahn, aren't we? If you ever driven Tesla you know that it gets very unhappy and loses range very fast when driven above 70 mph. 70 mph is painfully slow for Zee Autobahn. And if you drive at 120+
mph, you'll spend the better part of the day charging and recharging and recharging some more. Kinda like with EVs and towing.
76
WookieMan
2024 Sep 20, 6:24pm
WookieMan
2024 Sep 20, 6:24pm
socal2 says
Top end speed. No. Electric motors get tapped out. ICE can go ape shit top speed.
There would be land speed records with EV's. Nope. Hasn't happened. Your Tesla would get smashed by most high end ICE cars less that $250k.
The problem is you can't turn a wrench on an EV. I could make a Honda Civic faster than your Tesla. You're stuck with what you got. I personally don't care about small dick syndrome with speed and acceleration. My big dick needs utility. Not some zippy car that maybe can tow 2k lbs. without breaking.
HeadSet says
?? Won't a Model S hold its own against Porshe, et al?
A Model S Plaid or Model 3 Ludicrous will smoke a Porsche and every other car on the road less than $250,000. Hell - my middle to low trim Model Y will smoke 98% of the cars on the road.
Top end speed. No. Electric motors get tapped out. ICE can go ape shit top speed.
There would be land speed records with EV's. Nope. Hasn't happened. Your Tesla would get smashed by most high end ICE cars less that $250k.
The problem is you can't turn a wrench on an EV. I could make a Honda Civic faster than your Tesla. You're stuck with what you got. I personally don't care about small dick syndrome with speed and acceleration. My big dick needs utility. Not some zippy car that maybe can tow 2k lbs. without breaking.
77
socal2
2024 Sep 20, 7:32pm
WookieMan says
Yeah - but we are talking about driving cars on public streets. Very few people (including Germans) have access to or are going sustained Autobahn speeds for hundreds of miles notstop.
A Tesla being able to get to the speed limit (and then some) instantly with all that nonstop and amazing feeling torque is what it is all about. It just never gets old. So silky smooth and quiet so you are not being an obnoxious douche while driving in traffic.
Top end speed. No. Electric motors get tapped out. ICE can go ape shit top speed.
Yeah - but we are talking about driving cars on public streets. Very few people (including Germans) have access to or are going sustained Autobahn speeds for hundreds of miles notstop.
A Tesla being able to get to the speed limit (and then some) instantly with all that nonstop and amazing feeling torque is what it is all about. It just never gets old. So silky smooth and quiet so you are not being an obnoxious douche while driving in traffic.
78
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 21, 7:46am
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 21, 7:46am
socal2 says
And yet, Zee Germanz are not impressed. They want the Autobahn-driving capabilities in addition to stoplight boy-racer capabilities. Not that I see many ... scratch that ... any Teslas accelerating at even 10 sec to 60 mph rate on the streets.
WookieMan says
Top end speed. No. Electric motors get tapped out. ICE can go ape shit top speed.
Yeah - but we are talking about driving cars on public streets. Very few people (including Germans) have access to or are going sustained Autobahn speeds for hundreds of miles notstop.
A Tesla being able to get to the speed limit (and then some) instantly with all that nonstop and amazing feeling torque is what it is all about. It just never gets old. So silky smooth and quiet so you are not being an obnoxious douche while driving in traffic.
And yet, Zee Germanz are not impressed. They want the Autobahn-driving capabilities in addition to stoplight boy-racer capabilities. Not that I see many ... scratch that ... any Teslas accelerating at even 10 sec to 60 mph rate on the streets.
80
WookieMan
2024 Oct 3, 4:57am
WookieMan
2024 Oct 3, 4:57am
socal2 says
I can't stand loud and obnoxious cars and motorcycles specifically. As I've said before, I need utility and range. No EV can provide that yet. I appreciate that it's quiet, but that would be the only benefit for me. I don't need fancy infotainment screens and crap like that. No one does really. You should be driving and not distracted.
I tent camp, but I tow a trailer with about 500lbs of gear. Trailer itself is 1,200lb. Say I go to Ely, MN from northern IL, which I do. I'd need to charge 3 times maybe 4 over 550 miles and that's in areas of WI and MN that don't have many chargers. I'd stop 5 minutes for fuel in my SUV one time where a gas station is available every 5-10 miles.
It would need to be full charges as well. We're talking adding close to 3 hours on an already long road trip. Fine, one stop is for a sit down lunch, but that's assuming I can find a charger and then walk or uber to the restaurant. Likely have to detach the trailer, leave that unattended to get a full charge since they're generally not pull through. This is money, time and potential theft of my stuff.
Enjoy them if you do. I just don't see the value in them at all. Until I can get 400 miles on a charge with a trailer in 5 minutes with one stop, I will never buy one. Oh and fits 5 people in it comfortably. Which adds to the weight and less range which no one accounts for. Humans have mass. 3 boys that are all about to be teenagers weighing 120lbs plus, my 220lbs ass and my wife. That's 500-600lbs load just to move people. That would reduce range 5-10% likely.
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
This is why I keep my golf cart about 20' away from my house. I'd never park it in a garage unless I had a sprinkler system. Forgot to talk to my insurance buddy about it, but I wonder if they're going to start asking on home owners insurance applications if you have an EV.
Not necessarily the battery, but the charging of the car inside the garage. How that's installed. I could see home owners insurance rates jumping if they own an EV.
So silky smooth and quiet so you are not being an obnoxious douche while driving in traffic.
I can't stand loud and obnoxious cars and motorcycles specifically. As I've said before, I need utility and range. No EV can provide that yet. I appreciate that it's quiet, but that would be the only benefit for me. I don't need fancy infotainment screens and crap like that. No one does really. You should be driving and not distracted.
I tent camp, but I tow a trailer with about 500lbs of gear. Trailer itself is 1,200lb. Say I go to Ely, MN from northern IL, which I do. I'd need to charge 3 times maybe 4 over 550 miles and that's in areas of WI and MN that don't have many chargers. I'd stop 5 minutes for fuel in my SUV one time where a gas station is available every 5-10 miles.
It would need to be full charges as well. We're talking adding close to 3 hours on an already long road trip. Fine, one stop is for a sit down lunch, but that's assuming I can find a charger and then walk or uber to the restaurant. Likely have to detach the trailer, leave that unattended to get a full charge since they're generally not pull through. This is money, time and potential theft of my stuff.
Enjoy them if you do. I just don't see the value in them at all. Until I can get 400 miles on a charge with a trailer in 5 minutes with one stop, I will never buy one. Oh and fits 5 people in it comfortably. Which adds to the weight and less range which no one accounts for. Humans have mass. 3 boys that are all about to be teenagers weighing 120lbs plus, my 220lbs ass and my wife. That's 500-600lbs load just to move people. That would reduce range 5-10% likely.
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
Yes, EV Fluffers of PatNet! Do tell us what this light means...
Ceffer says
This is why I keep my golf cart about 20' away from my house. I'd never park it in a garage unless I had a sprinkler system. Forgot to talk to my insurance buddy about it, but I wonder if they're going to start asking on home owners insurance applications if you have an EV.
Not necessarily the battery, but the charging of the car inside the garage. How that's installed. I could see home owners insurance rates jumping if they own an EV.
81
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 3, 5:33am
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 3, 5:33am
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13918593/Florida-Hodges-family-Tesla-fire-burned-flooding-Hurricane-Helene.html
Florida family-of-nine narrowly escape wild blaze after Tesla burst into fireball during Hurricane Helene flooding
Florida family-of-nine narrowly escape wild blaze after Tesla burst into fireball during Hurricane Helene flooding
82
WookieMan
2024 Oct 3, 6:10am
WookieMan
2024 Oct 3, 6:10am
zzyzzx says
It's a pain, but I usually cover my golf cart after most uses, but especially if rain is in the forecast.
I accidentally arch'd (sp?) the battery terminals once. Holy fucking sparks. I wanna keep that thing dry, but not in my house. So cover it is. Helps with UV tire rot as well. Just a pain in the ass as I use it daily usually.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13918593/Florida-Hodges-family-Tesla-fire-burned-flooding-Hurricane-Helene.html
Florida family-of-nine narrowly escape wild blaze after Tesla burst into fireball during Hurricane Helene flooding
It's a pain, but I usually cover my golf cart after most uses, but especially if rain is in the forecast.
I accidentally arch'd (sp?) the battery terminals once. Holy fucking sparks. I wanna keep that thing dry, but not in my house. So cover it is. Helps with UV tire rot as well. Just a pain in the ass as I use it daily usually.
83
socal2
2024 Oct 3, 8:54am
Teslas actually do pretty good driving through fresh water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzA0U53HF2g
https://www.tiktok.com/@6abcactionnews/video/7327816600290168106
But you definitely don't want to have those large batteries soaking in seawater for an extended periods of time and still parked in your garage.
Tesla instructs owners to park their Teslas on the street away from their houses if they are unable secure their homes and vehicles before an upcoming hurricane.
Even ICE cars will be totalled after soaking in seawater for a few hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzA0U53HF2g
https://www.tiktok.com/@6abcactionnews/video/7327816600290168106
But you definitely don't want to have those large batteries soaking in seawater for an extended periods of time and still parked in your garage.
Tesla instructs owners to park their Teslas on the street away from their houses if they are unable secure their homes and vehicles before an upcoming hurricane.
Even ICE cars will be totalled after soaking in seawater for a few hours.
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By eric -January 17, 2024
Putting out an EV fire is the other problem. One arising from the problem that EVs can – and do – catch fire spontaneously, which is a new problem.
It was once the case that a car didn’t catch fire unless someone else ran into it – or it ran into something else – at a speed high enough to puncture the gas tank and cause the sparks (from mashing metal) needed to ignite the leaking gas.
Cars didn’t just catch fire – while parked – unless someone put a lit rag in the gas filler neck.
EVs, on the other hand, can – and do – catch fire when parked. Maybe not often, but that is beside the point. People don’t often get AIDs, either. But it’s prudent to avoid situations where AIDs might be acquired.
https://youtu.be/itGeAq9rBeY?si=mppfpcgsXAeqJ_6Q
Just so, it is prudent to avoid situations that might lead to your house catching fire. As by leaving an EV parked in the garage. Or even in the driveway, for that matter – as EV fires burn extremely hot and are extremely difficult to extinguish.
This brings up another problem:Dealing with EV fires.
And paying for it all.
EV battery fires are not like ordinary fires, which can be extinguished with water and – once extinguished – are extinguished. EV battery packs are not only susceptible to spontaneous combustion, they are capable of spontaneous re-ignition. They also cause the emission of extremely toxic gasses – as opposed to the innocuous gas (carbon dioxide) arising from the burning (in an engine) of gasoline. We breath in C02 (along with oxygen and nitrogen) with every breath we take – with no harmful effects.
Breathe in some of the gasses emitted by an EV fire and see what it does to your health.
Ask a fireman about that.
They use heavy duty gear – including self-contained breathing systems – to avoid breathing the emissions of EV battery fires. Because they’d die if they didn’t.
And they have special, expensive additional equipment to deal with EV battery fires that can only be suppressed rather than extinguished. For example (as in the video above) a special blanket to wrap the EV in, so as to try to dampen the fire. The soldering hulk is then dragged onto a flatbed and convoyed – with escorts – to the junkyard, where it must be set as far away from the other junk that’s already there, in order to prevent the smoldering hulk from catching all of that on fire, too.
EVs can also catch fire – and keep burning – when exposed to water.
https://youtu.be/MocjA8G2saI?si=ByJZISnz_5Dy4VGD
Under water.
You can probably guess who’s going to pay for all of this.
Expect your property tax bill to go up (again) in order to provide the fire department in your town/county with the additional equipment it needs to deal with the problem of EV battery fires – arising from the EV problem of spontaneous combustion. In addition to the problem of EVs catching fire when struck in an accident, which they are more prone to because all that’s needed to start a runaway reaction is damage to the battery pack.
A spark – the second necessary factor in a gasoline fire – is not necessary for a conflagration.
Expect something else, too.
Expect your insurance – both car and home – to increase, even if you do not own an EV or park one anywhere near your home. The costs generated by those who do own them will be transferred over to you, just the same as the cost of throwing away an otherwise-repairable car that is an economic throw-away due to the cost of replacing multiple air bags relative to the value of the car, itself, is already reflected in the costs were forced to pay for the insurance we’re required to buy.
In addition to what we’re (effectively) forced to buy when we buy a new car equipped with the air bags we’re required to buy as part of the deal. It’s interesting to note that these “safety” devices also have a tendency to catch fire spontaneously – as when their “inflator” system spontaneously triggers and the bag blows up in the victim’s face.
The air bag risk can be reduced but never eliminated. Just the same as regards EV battery pack spontaneous combustion.
It is interesting that such risks are considered acceptable by the very same people who often insist that any risk they regard as “too risky” must be ameliorated by any means they say necessary, no matter how much it costs.
And no matter how little the gain.