patrick.net

.

From my research, the Ukraine language is about 30% different than the Russian language.

Putin admitted in the Tucker Carlson interview that Ukraine nationalism existed at least 150 years ago.

The Kremlin sent in Bolsheviks to Ukraine in order to quell the nationalistic movement and resistance to the communist movement. One of the Bolshevik leaders deployed to Ukraine was Josef Stalin.

The Holodomor enacted by Stalin caused more nationalism within Ukraine, and that was exploited by Hitler and his SS.

Somehow Putin seemed to gloss over or not even mention about 1917 to the end of the Holodomor in his history lecture. That is why it was easy for the SS to recruit Ukrainians against the Soviets.

.

AD says

The Holodomor enacted by Stalin caused more nationalism within Ukraine, and that was exploited by Hitler and his SS.

I would modify this to say created radicalized nationals, same thing that happened in Germany, just via WWI instead of mass starvation.

I would guess before this current fiasco ends, Ukrainians will have had enough of both Russia and the West.

NuttBoxer says

AD says

The Holodomor enacted by Stalin caused more nationalism within Ukraine, and that was exploited by Hitler and his SS.

I would modify this to say created radicalized nationals, same thing that happened in Germany, just via WWI instead of mass starvation.

I would guess before this current fiasco ends, Ukrainians will have had enough of both Russia and the West.

The Holodomor killed as many Russians as Ukrainians, if not more.

This happened during collectivization of farming. What the USSR was doing was forcing farmers to give up their land through various policies to give it over to a bunch of assholes that had no idea what they were doing when it came to farming, which caused mass starvation.

You know, what the US and the West are doing what with "nitrogen emissions" and allowing foreign investment to purchase farmland as well as "investors" like Bill Gates.

It's going to happen to us, and people don't seem to realize or care.

People refuse to see the problem, so fuck 'em. People don't know history, so it repeats. A bunch of fucking sociopaths control the country and the West, people turn a blind eye to it, they're going to kill us.

richwicks says

The Holodomor killed as many Russians as Ukrainians, if not more.

Rich,

1) about 3.9 million were Ukrainian out of a total of 5 million in the USSR.

Also it was a power grab by Stalin as he was concerned about Ukraine nationalists pushing back against Kremlin policies.

source: https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor

2) Another key factor: "The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence."

Stalin was sent in as part of the Red Army leadership during that period.

Also later on: "To prevent "Ukrainian national counterrevolution," Stalin initiated mass-scale political repressions through widespread intimidation, arrests, and imprisonment. Thousands of Ukrainian intellectuals, church leaders, and Ukrainian Communist Party functionaries who had supported pro-Ukrainian policies were executed by the Soviet regime."

source: https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor

3) This is what Putin "lied by omission" when he kept saying Ukraine Nazi's suddenly just "appeared" in World War 2 and in 2014.

4) But I do understand your making comparison to this as far as what is happening today in the USA. I hope we do not get to the point where government tyranny would cause a famine.

But yes, re-examine their hybrid nanny state and authoritarian state policies like in your California during the pandemic.

.

AD says

But yes, re-examine their hybrid nanny state and authoritarian state policies like in your California during the pandemic.

Who gives a fuck what Putin said? Who cares?

Look, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, if Ukraine wasn't overthrown by the United States in a CIA led coup in which they setup a puppet regime that waged 8 years of civil war of the East versus the West for 8 fucking years OR if they just implemented the fucking Minsk Accords, which Merkel admits were only created to allow Ukraine to build up militarily to engage in a worthless, hopeless fucking war, which Ukraine was certain to lose before it even began.

You can't stop Putin, or Russia, from doing ANYTHING, but you could at LEAST try to stop your OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENT, from doing this, because you're paying for it.

You're paying to have Ukraine EXTERMINATED in a war they have NO HOPE, and NEVER HAD ANY HOPE of winning.

You can bitch and moan about Putin, a nation you have ZERO control over, or you can mindlessly cheer on stupid fucking US propaganda about how this is the "good fight".

It's not.

These was just a stupid attempt from the INCREDIBLY STUPID, and or incompetent, or possibly traitorous, Neocon dipshits that have bombed Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, and Somalia for NOTHING that advantaged this country in ANY conceivable way, while saddling us, and our children, and our great grandchildren, and our entire nation with unplayable debt, to remove Putin which doesn't matter a FUCKING bit because Dmitry Medvedev will just replace him and he is just as bad, if not worse than Putin.

These STUPID mother fuckers know less about geopolitics than I do, and I only know the periphery of it, but I can see history, and they are fucking stupid or they are active traitors. Cheering these stupid dipshits on, makes you a moron and complicit. Because you DOPES are so easily manipulated, enough of you will cheer on the next fucking war these mother fuckers will drag us into, and you'll reflexively and mindlessly support it, no matter what the cost in money, or blood.

2 goddamned solid decades, and you can't see the goddamned pattern yet. I'm fed up with ALL of you.

Ya think THIS TIME, the US will eek SOME sort of victory? It's only the 8th fucking attempt the MORONS in fucking charge of foreign policy have tried with nothing but a SOLID RECORD of failure 7 previous times. Is THIS the time the US will get SOMETHING OUT OF IT?

No. Of course not.

Ukraine is dead, fucked, finished, obliterated. The people that fled are unlikely to come back, the people that stayed and will continue to stay will be forever under austerity to Blackrock and Vanguard assuming ANY part of Ukraine exists at the end of this, and our press will forget about it, you'll forget about it and the fucking Neocons will drag us into ANOTHER fucking war, you'll forget everything you SHOULD have learned and support that.

It will be 30 years of a solid track record and who knows, maybe it will be the 10th or 15th time where they fucked up, and you'll support it anyhow, believing that the problem isn't HERE in the United States, but somewhere else while the stupid cattle of this population is squabbling about whatever the new bullshit "issue" of the day is having moved on from gender affirming care of drag queen story hour. Remember the pussy hats? How about school prayer, and abortion, gays and weddings cakes, and other shit nobody cares about, or ever did?

You things will never, ever, ever learn.

Talking to a bunch of meat robots. Get a fucking soul. People think that only "duh left" are NPC's, they are EVERYWHERE in every party.

This was aired a DECADE ago:


original link

Whether Putin (and Russia) is serious or not about why they invaded and waged war against Ukraine, they have a credible EXCUSE to do that, because of what the West did to Eastern Ukraine. We were told a DECADE ago, and our nation, supported this civil war, and all of the country was silent. Go fucking back to your propaganda box.



That's what you worship, go to hell. None of you will even protest what is going on, not that you're smart enough to recognize consistent patterns over 2 decades. This is the new normal, wage war for no reason forever, for no purpose, allow our politicians to get rich off from graft, the population pays for it, and 100's of thousands if not millions die for it. It's good business.

And you know, fuck Maui. They all got $700 bucks after their homes burned down. Fuck East Palestine Ohio, they were all poisoned. Who give a shit, we have to send 100 billion dollars so that Lotta Green Martin can get rich and Nancy Pelosi can engage in insider trading, as US taxpayers float up Offense Contractor stock to wage purposeless war with no goddamned goal or mission in sight. Nothing monstrous about that.

Yanukovych was such a sweet Ukrainian leader...sure he had military snipers pick off over 100 protestors, but who is counting???

It was all a trick by the NeoCons who forced Yanukovych to order the killings. Yep, when word was getting out about who ordered the protestors shot, he fled the country ahead of the pitchforks.

Annnnnnnnnnnnd some people here are supporting that psychopath.

Europe has finally stayed calm for a bit. This part of the world has been in perpetual war forever. Who fucking cares? Let them duke it out and destroy their future. Both countries are already losers at this point. Let's truly be the West and get Europe and this shit out of the picture. It's a hot mess and always has been.

Misc says

Yanukovych was such a sweet Ukrainian leader...sure he had military snipers pick off over 100 protestors, but who is counting???

Oh god:


original link


8:23 - Urmas Paet: ... in fact and what was quite disturbing, the same Olga told that well all the evidence shows that the people that were killed by
snipers from both sides among policemen and the people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides

8:57 ... that the new coalition that they don't want to investigate what what exactly happened so that there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers was not Yanukovych but somebody from the new coalition..

The puppet regime that our CIA setup shot people from BOTH sides to solidify the "revolution".

No point in leaks when you don't have a free press, and instead just have propaganda...

When I was younger, I really wanted to know what was "really going on", and now that I know a lot more, I realize what is meant precisely when they claim "ignorance is bliss". You'll just ignore the fact that OUR GOVERNMENT, murdered completely innocent people on both sides to install a puppet government, and very likely, in fact extremely probably, does this to US citizens as well.

This would be a HUGE story, if the 1st amendment was in use, and it's not. Julian Assange will be murdered, he's being extradited now, you don't know, and nobody cares, and the criminals will get away with it.

Yep, you believe Russian propaganda.

You are basing your convictions that the snipers were US backed on the basis of a single woman's testimony.

I am basing my beliefs that it was Yanukovych's orders to kill the protestors. I am basing this on lengthy court procedures done in Ukraine including testimony from some of the snipers themselves that Yanukovych gave the orders.

While it is possible that all the testimony and evidence were made up, it is more likely that, yes, Yanukovych gave the orders for the protestors to be killed.

Don't get me wrong... the guy who took over from Yanukovych was a complete fuck up too. One of the 1st things he did was outlaw the Russian language which about 30% of the population spoke exclusively.

He was divisive to an extreme.

But No he wasn't under the control of the US Neocons...even they aren't complete idiots.

Misc says

Don't get me wrong... the guy who took over from Yanukovych was a complete fuck up too.

That was Victoria Nuland. She put Arseniy Yatseniuk in charge, she's the one that decided he would ruin (I mean run) Ukraine. She picked him in a conversation with Geoffrey Pyatt, he was merely a puppet.

Yep, she was a "fuck up", that is assuming she wanted to run the country well, and she didn't. She got exactly what she wanted, chaos and an eventual outright war with Russia. She succeeded, she didn't "fuck up".

Misc says

One of the 1st things he did was outlaw the Russian language which about 30% of the population spoke exclusively.

Nuland's doing. Did you know that Zelenskyy didn't even speak Ukrainian, only Russian when he became "president"?

Misc says

But No he wasn't under the control of the US Neocons...even they aren't complete idiots.

OMG... Like the US would engineer a coup then be "hands off" once they people that that installed into power were put there...

I am so fucking sick of explaining this.

https://americandissident.substack.com/p/why-i-think-the-united-states-overthrew

Find an error? Let me know, I'll correct it. Most obvious fucking coup in history, exposed before it happened on Feb 4, 2014, 2 weeks and 4 days before Viktor Yanukovych fled office, Nuland personally picks out the next government, Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet explains to Catherine Ashton that the NEW government that formed were the people behind the snipers.


original link

What's the point of knowing? You'll just either forget, or ignore it, you won't pass it on. Ignorance is bliss.

Maybe if I have a stroke I can forget. Drinking doesn't help. Come on brain aneurysm. Maybe I should have gotten the vaccination - too late now.

It must be wonderful to continue to be able to believe in total fantasy when confronted with undeniable proof. I envy others. I wish I could do that. Most people live in a fantasy world, believing that they are informed by the propaganda box, thinking their politicians "make mistakes", believing their country is doing the right thing, and that this is the best goddamned nation in the world it being so moral and wonderful and all, and if anything WERE to go wrong, they would KNOW, and even if they didn't, SOMEBODY would correct it..

Why point out the days and days worths of evidence given at the trial?????

You have your beliefs based on something given by Russian propaganda, and it seems your beliefs in this are unshakable.

Good luck to you.

Misc says

Why point out the days and days worths of evidence given at the trial?????

Trial? There's no mention of a trial anywhere in this thread. What are you talking about?

Are you even addressing me? I assume (? perhaps a mistake), you are..

Misc says

You have your beliefs based on something given by Russian propaganda, and it seems your beliefs in this are unshakable.

As assume (again "?") you are addressing me? If so:

For FUCKS SAKE!!!

"Russian propaganda" is intelligence community speak for "what is true, that we don't want the American public to know about".

You know, like how Hunter Biden's laptop was "Russian Propaganda". 51 ex intelligence officials agreed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Statement_on_the_Hunter_Biden_Emails

As far as I'm aware, I don't believe in any propaganda, as far as I'm aware. Saying "you believe in propaganda", without identifying just WHAT propaganda somebody believes in, or addressing exactly what that propaganda is, prevents them from assessing what you may be talking about or addressing the possibility that indeed, they are effected by propaganda.

In short, you aren't thinking. You are simply dismissing what is said, not addressing what WAS said, merely calling it "propaganda". You're not pointing out how whatever unidentified thing is propaganda, why you think it (whatever it is) is propaganda, or how this supposed propaganda was disseminated. You are simply writing off what is said, thoughtlessly which a blank ad-hominem attack.

Because YOU are repeating propaganda, American propaganda.

Every country has it.

Current American propaganda has been to dismiss anything that is true, YET uncomfortable and something that the American government doesn't want the public talking about as "Russian propaganda". Which is what you are doing.

Notice I'm specifically addressing what you just said. It's a mindless, kneejerk, simplistic reaction to write off anything as "Russian Propaganda" when horrible truths about the US government are pointed out, and it's done with the vaguest way possible to prevent any ability to directly address the issue, and keep the victim on the defense.

My "beliefs" are, as far as I know, well founded and well thought out. IF I have an error in my thinking or logic, please address them specifically, so I can identify them, because I sure as hell don't enjoy thinking of my government as a group of out of control psychopaths, and I don't particularly enjoy thinking I live in a sea of subhuman NPC robots that blindly believe bullshit from the propaganda box and the toilet papers of record say. It's agony nearly for me to watch television and hear the audience laugh at puerile bullshit or have somebody tell me some bullshit as being true because they read it in the NY Times or the Economist. I mean, it really hurts.

I HOPE I'm wrong. I'd be ecstatic if I could take a step back and realize "oh, there's my error in thinking! Thank god this place isn't anywhere near as dismal and dark as I thought it was! How could I have ever believed the ridiculous bullshit I once did? Well, know that I know what my error in thinking was, I don't repeat THAT mistake again!!! Thank god I was corrected on that! I must have been crazy to believe the stupid BS I did!!!".

But you won't do that, because I am right, and it's EXTREMELY uncomfortable to you, that I am correct. Well, don't I know the feeling?

I am living in a nightmare where I'm coming to realize how easy it is for a nation to fall into complete despotism because people are uncomfortable fighting against it. Nobody knows what is going on, because they can't deal with knowing what is going on, so it goes on.

You can't correct a problem if you pretend it doesn't exist. Out of sight, out of mind.

The reason I write anywhere is to be challenged in my beliefs. You're not doing that. Telling me "you're wrong" does not give me any ability to ascertain I am wrong. You're just gaslighting me by doing that. It's like saying "there's a 100 dollar bill in one of these billion boxes" and I ask you "which one?" and I touch a box and you tell me only "well, not that one" and that's all you'll say. I don't believe there's any bill at all with you. I think you're lying because you want to believe I'm wrong. Well, I do too, but I can't get anybody to explain how - this leads me to the dismal conclusion I'm right, and very few people can face reality.

You simply cannot accept the conclusion I'm correct, and your inability to accept this doesn't allow you to explain how I'm incorrect, it just makes you think I'm incorrect, without understanding how. I am capable of uncertainty, but I'm no longer capable of faith. I sorely miss my ability to have faith. It is the worst thing I've lost and I will never get it back.

There was an extensive trial in the Ukraine concerning the mass killings of protestors that were ordered by Yanukovych. Thousands of hours of video were placed into evidence along with an exhaustive number of witnesses,

That is what I am basing my beliefs on.

You seem to be basing your beliefs on the phone call that you posted.

Am I wrong?

Misc says

Yanukovych was such a sweet Ukrainian leader...sure he had military snipers pick off over 100 protestors, but who is counting???

Apparently you missed the recent verdict proving it was a false flag. I thought this was well known before though..

https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/buried-trial-verdict-confirms-false-flag-maidan-massacre-in-ukraine-2024

Nope the verdict was that some of the people involved were convicted of murdering the protestors. 27 others had fled the country.

For some of those that were convicted, Zelensky had them swapped for some Ukrainian POWs.

The charges against Yanukovych for ordering the killings are ongoing, but it's going to be an even longer trial period because of the number of victims.

https://kyivindependent.com/euromaidan-murders-case-why-is-the-verdict-criticized-and-why-is-it-about-russia/

You're being intentionally vague because it basically states the narrative you pushed is bullshit:

"A nearly one-million-word verdict from Ukraine’s Maidan massacre trial has recently confirmed that many Maidan activists were shot not by members of Ukraine’s Berkut special police force or other law enforcement personnel but by snipers in the far-right-controlled Hotel Ukraina and other Maidan-controlled locations a decade ago today."
(see Canadian link above)

But apparently you'd rather follow state media in a country that's suspended elections, locked up religious leaders, committed an untold number of human rights violations, against their own people, and laundered more money than cocaine in the 80's...

NuttBoxer says

You're being intentionally vague because it basically states the narrative you pushed is bullshit:

"A nearly one-million-word verdict from Ukraine’s Maidan massacre trial has recently confirmed that many Maidan activists were shot not by members of Ukraine’s Berkut special police force or other law enforcement personnel but by snipers in the far-right-controlled Hotel Ukraina and other Maidan-controlled locations a decade ago today."
(see Canadian link above)

But apparently you'd rather follow state media in a country that's suspended elections, locked up religious leaders, committed an untold number of human rights violations, against their own people, and laundered more money than cocaine in the 80's...

--- You make me giggle

Sorry the verdicts that were handed down were Guilty of Murder. You seem to believe the verdicts were Not Guilty by Reason of Coup.

Yes, when the special police unit opened fire on the protestors, the protestors buddies opened fire back at them.
There was also a sniper or two that were in the employ of Yanukovych that fired on the protestors.
Your piece of shit article never got around to saying that the verdicts were guilty of murder. Just pure BS.

Get a grip on reality and stop supporting a mass murderer.

Misc says

Yanukovych was such a sweet Ukrainian leader...sure he had military snipers pick off over 100 protestors, but who is counting???

NuttBoxer says

"A nearly one-million-word verdict from Ukraine’s Maidan massacre trial has recently confirmed that many Maidan activists were shot not by members of Ukraine’s Berkut special police force or other law enforcement personnel but by snipers in the far-right-controlled Hotel Ukraina and other Maidan-controlled locations a decade ago today."

It's pretty clear this is what I was talking about. You said it was Russians, the Ukrainian court proved you wrong. Try actually reading the OP. CIA has got you by the short hairs, and you don't even realize it. Another victim of propaganda, and proof there's bullshit out there to sucker anyone.

Just to follow up for anyone who wonders if they've fallen for propaganda. When two sides engage in the exact same activity, but you only see it as wrong for one side, that's a sure fire indicator.

Most people clearly recognize Yanukovych as a Russian puppet, it's not even debatable. The same way Zelensky is a NATO/US/Western puppet, again, not even debatable. If you can't agree to those sentences, either the Kremlin or DC has duped you.

And again, if you want to do more than just spout opinion, actually read the OP links. Uninformed opinion is as useful as a sack full of assholes.