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The H-1b Lie: This Program Must END


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2024 Dec 26, 4:13pm   2,938 views  98 comments

by mell   ➕follow (10)   ignore  

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=252559

"
Let's cut the crap on H-1b abuse: The H-1b program is in essentially every single case simple abuse, wild-eyed racism through the effective of the "caste" system into the US and destruction of the wage base .vs. the claimed purpose of the program.

In truth the H-1b garbage and the tech firms, including Elon's, shilling for it is nothing more than the same bullshit run by the construction industry when it comes to illegal aliens putting on roofs or farmers and picking strawberries. Neither industry wants to pay Americans a living wage and so both look for ways to cut their costs and stuff the rest of the money in their pockets. Breaking the law doesn't matter to them and yes, essentially every H-1b as currently used is breaking the law because the law requires first a diligent search for American talent at the wage said talent will accept and then, and only then you must pay more to legally use H-1bs. This is never the case, and the job-shop crap is even worse which I will go into detail on below. The so-called "tech bros" all know this, all exploit this and every single one of them should be imprisoned for suborning it, abusing Americans and foreigners alike.

One of the more-common abuses is to list a "job opening" that has a litany of "requirements" that no reasonably-skilled person in-field actually meets but magically some H-1b person "does." Or so they claim; said person really doesn't have five years of experience in the entire list proffered, but this is the basis of their claim "there's no American who can do this job." As someone who has more than forty years in the computer field as a programmer, networking and systems guy I can spot those "ads" instantly; every one of them is a fraud and used solely to avoid hiring an American. Let me be clear: The posting of a single one of those ads is proof of fraud and thus a felony for which the posting entity should be instantly arrested, indicted and everyone involved in it imprisoned.

If you really are an "exceptional" individual in-field you have no need for H-1b at all irrespective of your nationality; the claim that this program actually provides "exceptional" talent is a bald-faced lie that we must not tolerate in any venue. If you are truly exceptional in your field you can apply for and get an O-1 visa which allows you to work for three years in the United States, it can be extended for additional one year terms indefinitely, it has no tie to a specific employer so you can follow job opportunity or set up your own firm unlike the H-1b that does not and thus forces the holder to stay with the sponsoring company or depart the US, it can form the foundation (assuming you aren't misrepresenting anything and really are exceptional and prove it once you get here) for permanent residency and of course that, over time, can lead to citizenship.

So why don't they do that? Because nearly all of them are not really more-skilled than an average person and further if they were they'd turn their own nation into a technology powerhouse since they have four times our population or more and plenty of natural resources.

H-1b visas as illegally exploited today by industry are essentially indentured servitude. The worker is captive to the employer who sponsors the visa and what's worse is that an entire consulting industry has risen up around these things that siphons off a huge percentage of the pay; many of these people make only the minimum of about $55,000 a year with the rest going to the consulting company which is a direct violation of the intent of the program that is supposed to only allow their use at above-market wages. Of course this means the "employee" winds up working 80 hours a week for 40 hours of $27.50/hr in pay.

No, $55,000 for a "skilled" tech worker who is then expected to work double time for no extra money is not an above-market wage anywhere in the United States. It is in fact way below any such skilled position's wage and in addition that "wage" being that its a contractor position does not include either taxes or benefits.

I know multiple young men and women who, knowing my history in the tech sector from worker bee to CEO asked for my opinion on going to college and entering tech careers a decade or more ago and I warned them of the rise of this program and its abuse -- and that given the cost of a degree unless they had a full ride scholarship it was quite dangerous because they could end up with quite a lot of debt and then be undercut by an Indian on an H-1b who makes a hell of a lot less and they'd have no way to possibly survive and pay down their debt on that wage.

I'm aware of more than one of said young men and women, a few of who are definitely in the top 2% on an intellectual basis (that is, Mensa material and potential future superstars) who completed highly technical degrees with high honors and then left the tech industry entirely and don't work in it today. I do not know if they got directly fucked by the H-1b program as the reason but I bet at least in part it was due to lack of satisfaction with offered working conditions which is driven in large part by this insanity.

Those individuals have deliberately given the finger to the American tech industries despite having the intellectual and educational chops to be top engineers and possibly discover and implement breakthroughs that would change our lives. It is only reasonable to believe they made this decision to stick up their middle fingers due to external market conditions beyond their control and H-1b abuse is a big part of it. And by the way they are also not having kids either; by their actions they have zero intention of putting another generation in that position and this is despite having found an apparently-permanent heterosexual relationship.

Further, many of these so-called "technical people" on H-1bs, particularly from India, have bogus certificates and degrees that demonstrate nothing; they are really no better than an American with no experience who went through a couple of week bootcamp in Android programming or similar. There is utterly no reason that any of those people should be here instead of Americans doing those jobs; if the job is within their capabilities the average High School graduate can, with nothing more than a High School level of education, learn enough to work at that level inside of a few weeks time in learning.

But will they do that for $27.50/hour when they're treated like human trash and members of an "inferior caste" on the job? Not when they can make $20/hr doing what amounts to a near-mindless job at Buc-Ees and punch a clock with no project pressures and related BS -- they can do that instead with a reasonable path to being an assistant manager at over $30/hr and if they stick with it management jobs in that company, which you really can attain, come with a $100,000+ income over the space of a few years!

What's worse is the staunchest defenders of this crap are Indians who came here either on O-1s or otherwise managed to get out of the H-1b trap themselves and stay -- and now are either in those firms as management or running the job shops fucking all the other H-1b workers for 30+% of the billed hourly rate. They have now brought the Indian caste system with them and have to a large degree codified it into the United States workforce and thus love the job-shop abuse crap that goes on in the tech industry and it shows inexorably in the composition of the workforce that winds up under and around them over just a few years time.

You don't have to look beyond simply walking in the door or touring the neighborhoods where these workers live to see the racial discrimination against everyone other than them and just like every slavery system crafted through history its all about the money.

All of this must end; it is wildly illegal and found everywhere in the tech industry. Those who truly are exceptional, irrespective of nation, can already come here via the existing O-1 visa program which is purely merit-based and has exactly zero "pull" capacity by job shops and others who would seek to exploit those in other lands. The existing H-1b program does that in spades and effectively has become an import of the Indian caste system into the tech industries.

That is not embodiment of American values, it is illegal under federal anti-discrimination laws, it has been increasingly exploited to drive down wages and push Americans out of tech jobs and it must be entirely ended with prejudice right here and now as it is in fact no different than exploiting illegal Mexicans to put on roofs and pluck chickens.

If Trump does not do so then his claim of intent to "Make America Great Again" is just another political LIE and YOU are going to get it further up your ass as an American for the benefit of those who are not.
"

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2   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 4:37pm  

I've been fucking raging about this all day.

The Big Tech Fucks and their HR Karen Shrews try to conflate O-1 visas, or Einstein visas, with H1Bs.

H1Bs are responsible for Starliner and 737Max "Code". The now ex-CEO of Boeing wrote a memo blasting old White Males for being too finicky about safety and quality, and that they were costing the company tons of money and sang praises of the H1Bs they had doing CAD and Coding.
3   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 5:13pm  

"HURR DURR, $40K for an accountant is not cheap labor secret doors".


FFS, $40k is cheap for a Gal Friday without any kind of Degree, just some Quickbooks knowledge.

My friend made $60k in 2000 the first year after graduating from a mid-tier school in Accounting... a quarter century ago.
4   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 6:22pm  

"We have such a Skillz shortage, we can pay our imported Senior Associate EINSTEINS and VON BRAUNS just $78k/year, and they accept that." - Corporate BS Department

6   mell   2024 Dec 26, 6:36pm  

My starting tech salary (h1!) almost 25 years ago inflation adjusted was 140k in today's greenbacks! Shows you how the American economy has gone down the shitter, incl. tech. If you haven't played other avenues such as the stock market or RE on the side, or gunned early for that useless gravy train c suite position, collecting as much "bonus" while bullshiting as much as possible, you lost out.
7   clambo   2024 Dec 26, 6:55pm  

The H1-B visa program is how the slave masters can legally hire foreigners to replace more expensive (and capable) American workers.
It's entirely bullshit.

A good friend of mine was working at Compaq during the internet boom; after Compaq was acquired by/merged with HP, Carly Fiorina fired him and a bunch of other Americans who were replaced by guys from India with H1-B visas.

My friend was pissed that he had to train the motherfuckers before he left.
He had at that time 1. mortgage 2. two children about to enter college.

I've heard all kinds of bullshit about how brilliant Asian guys are; well I don't know any Americans who willingly drink piss and think cows are people, nor believe seahorses and shark fins are medicinal.
8   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 6:56pm  

Asians work hard, but they're not innovative except ass kissing, they can charm Oscar the Grouch. When not putting metal into the microwave.
11   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 26, 7:38pm  

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says







I had to find and fix Indian contractor code that was causing severe problems with performance on our e-commerce site.

Find one function used a lot. Was nested looping. Going through all the users photo albums and then the subalbums and then the photos of each. Then setting some other object with ids or some property that matched whatever they were looking for, etc.

Never mind that they could have used more efficient coding patterns to do that. What I caught was that they didn't end the nested loops once they found what they were looking for. It was like finding the fucking needle in the haystack, passing it off to whatever but still continung counting until that very last straw was done anyway.

And it was for one specific photo at a time.

I shit you not.
12   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Dec 26, 7:58pm  

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

And it was for one specific photo at a time.

I shit you not.


LOLOL... I get shit like that from postdocs... Well, maybe not that bad.
13   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 8:03pm  

Elon just deverified Loomer, over H1B controversy.
https://x.com/LauraLoomer/status/1872489205764596006

First bad thing I've seen Elon do. Elon wants that sweet cheap H1Bs. Very sad. Hopefully it's just some overenthusiastic H1B visa employee and wasn't ordered by Elon himself.

Also Lindsay just decided that WokeRight includes H1B skeptics, so he blocked my ass. Apparently liberals can't believe in stopping wagebusting scams.

Sigh.

But remember:


14   Patrick   2024 Dec 26, 8:24pm  

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says






In my first job, at Motorola, we were judged on the number of lines of code we produced per day. More code was assumed to be better.

But the best programmers produce negative lines of code per day, making everything more compact and clearer at the same time.
15   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 8:34pm  

AmericanKulak says


Elon just deverified Loomer, over H1B controversy.
https://x.com/LauraLoomer/status/1872489205764596006

Update: Apparently multiple H1B critic accounts are getting mysteriously deverified/debluechecked

RawAlerts, GavinsMarioWax, and others are getting their verification status cancelled for no reason or notice.

https://x.com/GavinWax/status/1872491448404451610

UPDATE: Owen Shroyer as well
https://x.com/OwenShroyer1776/status/1872491690331922903
16   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 26, 10:24pm  

Parent of multiple college STEM graduates confused why his kids get no callbacks during a "Shortage"

https://x.com/LarryOConnor/status/1872457167363522767

The same STEM programs that foreign-born students and their parents move mountains to try to get into.

We all know the REAL reason. They're Americans, White, and probably Male.
19   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 27, 7:54am  

Farmerswon today



24   GNL   2024 Dec 27, 8:20am  

mell says

Because nearly all of them are not really more-skilled than an average person and further if they were they'd turn their own nation into a technology powerhouse since they have four times our population or more and plenty of natural resources.

Why, then, would any serious company hire subpar employees? It's the top tier coders that make any real strides/innovations, no?
27   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 27, 9:01am  

DOGEWontAmountToShit says






I thought you didn't like memes, @WookieMan ?
28   WookieMan   2024 Dec 27, 9:15am  

Booger says





Different fields in engineering. Architects are technically engineers and clearly that's not a high priority in India. Same with sewer and water. I presume their roads are trash. Not to shit on programmers on this site, but I just don't consider that "engineering" so to speak. Everyone seems to call themselves an engineer now. You local dog walker is a leash engineer.

It's a pinkies up profession if you can call yourself an engineer.
29   RWSGFY   2024 Dec 27, 9:57am  

Patrick says

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says







In my first job, at Motorola, we were judged on the number of lines of code we produced per day. More code was assumed to be better.

But the best programmers produce negative lines of code per day, making everything more compact and clearer at the same time.



30   goofus   2024 Dec 27, 10:21am  

WookieMan says


Booger says






Different fields in engineering. Architects are technically engineers and clearly that's not a high priority in India. Same with sewer and water. I presume their roads are trash. Not to shit on programmers on this site, but I just don't consider that "engineering" so to speak. Everyone seems to call themselves an engineer now. You local dog walker is a leash engineer.

It's a pinkies up profession if you can call yourself an engineer.



It’s more easily explained by the low average IQ of Indians: low 80’s. There are probably 10’s of millions of very bright Indians, stratified by caste and religion (like Sikhs). Many are already here. But that leaves 1.3 billion not-so-bright.

It’s like Nigeria, with 35 million Igbo (IQ average 95), but an overall average of mid-70’s. Don’t bring in groups dragging the average down, clearly.
31   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 27, 10:42am  

This us and them fight is nonsense. There are probably a marginally small portion of Asian HB1 visa workers that are uber smart. But I don't think that ratio of uber smarties is greater than what we have here in America. But none the less, that still leaves a deficit of tech people who are capable of designing cutting edge state of the art chips. I'm talking about folks that works in particle free facilities that require redundant anti static precautions.
That need is real.

Where the Bullshit hits the rubber on the road. When they then lump every finger ass wiping lowly data analyst, QA, end user UI design, code to be fed into compilers. While very techincal people are needed to create compilers and new languages. The personel who then write code using the syntax, there are 20 American workers for every job.

This Us against Them argument allows them to not make the distinction, because we're not making that distinction. We say they aren't short, and they point to folks needed to build the next quantum computer. Even though it's just a ploy to import everyone from Data back up to requirements gathering. Tasks that there are no shortage of American workers to do.

To be honest I have never ran into one single Indian EVER that could hold a candle to the level of skill that I posses. The Head Indian Honcho, in the company convinced the Company leadership to import every wheat husker from India to fill those spots. They don't know shit EVER! Yes the Indians that are far advanced beyond my skills knows their shit. But to be honest the Enterprise and common Database programming. Doesn't require that level of skill. So I have never worked along side them ever. Other than they being a technical contact for an advanced system we may have been implementing in the company. Guys that wrote code and the hardware for the system we were using. Those folks had skills that I respected. I'm not talking about Indian based technical support here. I'm talking about senior level folks for print prepress hardware and the software for it. .

Meanwhile the Indians in the enterprise doing the same job I'm doing, that has to call the same contacts that I have to call. End up deferring the project to me, because it's beyond their scope. They can't make sense of the documentation, or the instructions and suggestions from those tech contacts.

It's simple the Big Business says they need skilled people, but there is no distinction on what skill level they can import. So it's an open spigot for any and all, and that's the true injustice here.
32   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Dec 27, 10:53am  

Tenpoundbass says


Farmerswon today


I'm glad that guy has me blocked so I can only see his stupid posts when I'm not logged in.
33   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 27, 11:10am  

FarmersWon says

The H1B battle is not about brilliant people or Hindus , It is really about the “ Hindu Junk “ who is subpar and using Hindu bribery to replace Americans.
These same junk level Hindus are racist towards Sikhs and whites and Muslims, The geniuses are to busy to create value for 🇺🇸.


I agree but we're distracting from our own fight. It shouldn't be "Don't import any" but more about regulating what constitutes tech skills we are in need of.
As long as we say we don't need any Indians, they will just keep pointing to the Labs where cutting edge technology is created.

I think the number we need to run the Enterprise computers servers, networks, Coding, website design, graphic design ect. Is ZERO!

It's an insult to all Americans for anyone to suggest we don't have people skilled enough to perform those jobs.
34   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 27, 11:18am  

Also HB1 visa holders should be barred from executive level positions.
CEO
CFO
CIO ect...
35   gabbar   2024 Dec 27, 11:39am  

H1B employment visa originates in F1/student visa. Universities need out of state fee paying students and ultra cheap (less than minimum wage earning) research assistants (research is where university makes money, not teaching). Money made in popular/money making departments (CSc, Engineering for example) is shifted to Departments of Wokesism, this is the only way to keep these wokeism departments going.
36   gabbar   2024 Dec 27, 11:40am  

Tenpoundbass says


Also HB1 visa holders should be barred from executive level positions.
CEO
CFO
CIO ect...

There will be little or no change going forward, imo. This is not about merits of the issue; its about money. If Trump succeeds in changing this parasitic system, he would be the greatest President forever in the history of the US.
38   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 27, 2:20pm  

Add:

> Absolute zero tolerance for outdoor shitting on Greenland


39   Patrick   2024 Dec 27, 5:53pm  

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/doge-days-of-the-color-war-friday


Bottom line, Elon’s honeymoon is officially over, and the wedding party must swim back to the mainland through shark-infested waters. Elon’s stock with some MAGA types had clearly fallen below zero yesterday. Buying and freeing twitter? Who cares! Funding the Trump campaign? So what! Swinging Silicon Valley to MAGA? That’s old news! Elon favors H1-B work visas!

Now, you might think the argument over H1-B work visas is a pretty wonky and thinly sliced issue. You might think it is hardly the issue to torch the MAGA movement over. Stick with me. There’s a lot more to this, and it is dark. ...

The deep state ran a color revolution strategy against the Tea Parties, and look what happened. They’ve been trying for years to start one against MAGA, but so far they’ve been unsuccessful.

Yesterday, they finally had a breakthrough.
40   mell   2024 Dec 27, 5:58pm  

Disagree. This is not a color revolution fueled by the deep state. Trump has said forever that the H1B program is abuse and needs to at the minimum be severely curtailed if not abandoned. Now it's his time to make good on this promise. They can always reopen the program or up the quota should something "bad" come from this, which it won't.
41   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Dec 27, 6:53pm  

There was a paper on the interwebs back in 1997 I've looked for the past few years. Like a photocopy of a document written on a type writer with citations, footnotes only a few pages long max, maybe less.

It detailed the government and tech collusion to implement the H1B system. This was before the dot com crash. Anyhow, it predicted all of this, how we were being sold out and I sure wish I could find it again but it seems to have vanished.

Maybe 1998 or early 99..

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