patrick.net

Saves us some tax money too....no workers comp.

The negatives far outweigh the benefits though.

Here's my solution to immigration.

1) Give all illegal / undocumented persons six months to voluntarrily report their status to the government. Fingerprint them, give them a photo IDs and a tax Id Number (NOT a SS Number) so they can work and pay taxes. Make them list residence so we know where they live.

If possible, do a background check with the county they originated from to ensure no criminal record.

If they move they better update their info, otherwise they are considering AWOL and subject to deportation. As a non citizen, your are a guest in our country. Act accordingly.

2) Render them ineligible for federally funded government services for three years. No WIC, no Section 8, no access to Medicare, none of that. Either they can make a go at the American dream through hard work or they can't. If they need assistance, let charitable organizations fill the gap. If they need healthcare, let them buy a policy on the open market or get one through their employer. No more crowding emergency rooms for routine care.

3) One strike and your out clause. Commit a crime (other than a misdemeanor like speeding) your gone. Out. Don't come back.

4) Overhaul the immigration process so that it takes less time for one to enter the country legally.

Let's get back to, give me your tired, your, poor... But not give out free stuff or subsidize those who can't earn a living. Either you make it or you don't. Charity should come from the private sector via philanthropy or from religious institutions NOT from the government.

I'm all about giving people a chance, and of the millions of illegals MOST are just trying to better their lot in life, but we need to balance this with the reality that we cannot allow ourselves to become a welfare state or welfare nation.

Some rights are inherent, others are earned as a result of citizenship. It's important to know the difference.

I'm not a fan of the ICE raids and deportations. I get why it's happening but it doesn't seem like they are targeting actual violent criminals, gang members and drug pushers, but rather casting a wide net in the hopes the catch a few diliquents in the process. That seems inefficient.

Back in the day (before the 1980's), you came here, and within 2 years or less you had a green card. The H1B abuse is so bad now, both for the chindians and the American jobs they steal.

I personally know of chindians who have been waiting 15 years for a green card. In the meantime, they've raised their families in this country, and the whole family is at risk of deportation. This wouldn't happen if the H1B scam hadn't been ginned up.

The H1B scam should be completely shut down. Bring it back to the way it used to be - immigrate, then if you're good, get a green card; otherwise, get the fuck out of this country you grifting foreigner.

stereotomy says

The H1B scam should be completely shut down. Bring it back to the way it used to be - immigrate, then if you're good, get a green card; otherwise, get the fuck out of this country you grifting foreigner.

I don't remember what it was like pre 1980, I mean, I was around, but was more into He-Man and Smurfs than H1B particulars.

I'll take your word for it.

I agree that streamlining the system is key. 15 years for a green card is ridiculous.

stereotomy says

Back in the day (before the 1980's), you came here, and within 2 years or less you had a green card.

H1B holders were getting GCs in less than 2 years up until 2000, early 2001. Then the labor certification step (PERM) of the process was brought to a screeching halt by hordes of illegals gumming up the system because Slick Willie allowed them to apply while heading out of the WH door.

I know people on both sides of this situation: ones who got their GC in a year and the ones who were stuck in PERM limbo for many years, lost their job, lost their place in line, restarted the process, rinsed, repeated....

I don’t keep track of the current status but I heard that it takes 80 years to get GC for H1B from someone few months back based on the current wait times. I suspect that it’s for Chinese and Indians. Other countries take far less time.

GreaterNYCDude says

Here's my solution to immigration.

Your system does nothing to prevent illegals from coming. In fact, your system is outright amnesty for all present and future illegals just by doing some paperwork. The real solution is come here legally or get deported, and set up a guest worker program for any actual labor shortages.

stereotomy says

The H1B scam should be completely shut down.

Read the poultry workers wage fixing (antitrust) lawsuit which cited that poultry companies like Perdue and Tyson would bring in immigrant workers to keep wages down, not because there is a shortage of workers.

The "cartel" like White Western Mens Club and Econfina Club are behind bringing in immigrant workers to Bay County and Panama City Beach, and thats why the rent to income ratio has continued to increase steadily since at least the last 20 years.

HeadSet says

GreaterNYCDude says

Here's my solution to immigration.

Your system does nothing to prevent illegals from coming. In fact, your system is outright amnesty for all present and future illegals just by doing some paperwork. The real solution is come here legally or get deported, and set up a guest worker program for any actual labor shortages.

The lack of eligibility for federally funded services is a disincentive. Call it amnesty if you want but I call it compassion. If you live here, work here and are not a criminal, stay. We are a country of immigrants after all... but only if you can survive without the government safety net as a backstop.

Stop clogging our emergency rooms for non emergency matters, stop expecting us to subsidize your food, housing and childcare costs.

Look I realize that entering illegally is a crime in and of itself but since they are here already might as well keep the hard working ones. If the services are eliminated that's a huge diencentive for anyone who was living off the various welfare programs that exist... FOR AMERICANS.

And since I'm a big on states rights and limited federal government, if MA or NY or CA want to give handouts... That's on them. Just don't expect to funnel federal dollars to non-citizens; if you do then you should have your federal funding cut off.

I also think that in this day and age where assimilation is resited wather than encouraged by some ethnic groups, an English language test and possibly an American culture test would help; but that would require Congress declaring English the official language of the USA first. But I digress.

Is it a perfect solution... No but it's an attempt to compromise. People, even illegally here, have dignity and value. If your hard working and can make your own way, why would send those sorts of people back on the basis of one bad decision (that is to say entering without authorization)

Given how gummed up the system is I can understand why some simply cross a fence rather than wait decades to get in the "right" (that is to say legal) way.

But hey, you don't need to agree with me, it's simply one mans opinion.

“ Just don't expect to funnel federal dollars to non-citizens; if you do then you should have your federal funding cut off.”

That’s impossible to track.

Glock-n-Load says

“ Just don't expect to funnel federal dollars to non-citizens; if you do then you should have your federal funding cut off.”

That’s impossible to track.

Not entirely.

Example. HUD gives money to NY. NY in turns diverts some of that money to providing housing for illegals. Federal government sues NY and demands repayment of said funds. Courts sort it out. Given the makeup of SCOTUS, I like the odds of a favorable ruling for the plaintiff, unless NY obscures things such that you can't trace the money from A to B to C; but aren't transparency and accountability in government something that ALL should support, irrespective if party?

The immigrants that flooded this country in the 19th century behaved in a similar pattern. The grifters went to the big cities to be used as voters/shock troops for the political machines. The motto of Tammany Hall was "Vote early and vote often."

The hardworking types went into the wilderness of the frontier to make their fortunes or die trying.

The Call Center is Based in the Philippians.

GreaterNYCDude says

The lack of eligibility for federally funded services is a disincentive

Still plenty of motive to come in and supply the cheap labor.

GreaterNYCDude says

Call it amnesty if you want but I call it compassion.

Compassion is what you do with your own money. When someone else pays the price for your "compassion," it is virtue signaling. I am more concerned for the Americans who see wages driven down by the influx of cheap labor and rents driven up by illegals crowding a dozen to a 3 bedroom condo.

GreaterNYCDude says

If your hard working and can make your own way, why would send those sorts of people back on the basis of one bad decision (that is to say entering without authorization)

Because the sole purpose of the influx is to drive down wages for the benefit of large corporations. I do not want to see a situation where the new American youth has to settle for coolie wages and have multiple roommates just to get by. Besides, that illegal did not make "one bad decision," it was a good for him decision that happens to be a criminal act.

GreaterNYCDude says

Given how gummed up the system is I can understand why some simply cross a fence rather than wait decades to get in the "right" (that is to say legal) way.

That is like saying that one can understand why one would shoplift given how high beef prices are today. One does not have a right to enter the US anymore than a store should provide free meat.

Trump should make it easy for victims to sue states and cities that protect illegals.

RC2006 says

Trump should make it easy for victims to sue states and cities that protect illegals.

You speaka my language!

Long term we need to look at WHY people are compelled to enter illegally and solve that. Treat the root cause, not the symptoms.

And frankly, the fact that they are here illegaly is one of the reasons why they can be exploited by corporations for low wages. Who are they going to complain to if they are underpaid? The department of Labor? We need to rethink how we do immigration top to bottom.

@Headset it seems we agree to disagree. I respect your points, which were well made, but I simply don't see mass deportation as a viable solution.

GreaterNYCDude says

Long term we need to look at WHY people are compelled to enter illegally and solve that.

The motive is obvious - to make money by helping employers fuck US workers.

ALL of them must be deported ASAP and be declared ineligible to ever return under any conditions.

The very first thing they did was break the law. That disqualifies them from being here at all, ever.

Next, we should prosecute all the employers who used them to fuck American workers.

Next, we should prosecute all politicians who facilitated this bullshit at the expense of US jobs and wages.

I realize I'm in the minority (pun half intended) but to me motive matters.

Did you overstay your visa?
Are you genuinely seeking asylum?
Did you not have the money to enter legally?
Were you simply impatient and not wanting to wait your turn in the queue?

One thing that IS makerdly different is that Under Biden blatant border crossing was the norm. Hundreds of thousands came in and we have no way to track them or know where they are. Clearly this is a problem and a potential security liability.

But for me, from where I sit, in a deep blue state, rouding then up and kicking them out permanently, although I understand the sentiment and the logic, just seems to me an inelegant solution. A sledge hammer instead of a scalpel.

I believe that in the end your judged by what you do for the very least. I believe in second chances and American exeptionalism.

I'm for securing the border. I'm for deporting violent young men and drug pushers. I don't believe in anchor babies and am glad to see birthright citizenship being challenged.

But I do believe that no matter how you got here, once your here, it should be on you to sink or swim.

Go back 120 years. All eight of my great grandparents came from nothing and made a life for themselves. They assimilated. They were proud Americans. And not all came in legally. But once they were here they put their nose to the grindstone and eek out a better life without leaning on Uncle Sam to make it happen.

That's the kind of America I want to get back to.

And I'm all for persecuting companies who have contributed to this problem.

GreaterNYCDude says

Were you simply impatient and not wanting to wait your turn in the queue?

Most of them are this. They just do not give a shit what the laws of the US are and have proven themselves willing to break them, first by entering illegally, second by working illegally.

All for money. No principles at all beyond making money at the expense of US citizens.

Not to mention that the tens of millions of illegals are counted to allocate many Congressional seats to Democrats.

If I sneak into Switzerland and work there illegally purely because I can make more money than I can here, does that give me the right to stay in Switzerland?

Patrick says

If I sneak into Switzerland and work there illegally purely because I can make more money than I can here, does that give me the right to stay in Switzerland?

If your contributing to Swiss society, paying taxes, renting a place to live, etc. why would they not want you to stay?

And who would hire you? This is where the corporations, large and small bear some responsibility. In most other countries if you don't have a work visa you can't get a job.

I have a family meber trying to emigrate to Switzerland (ironically enough) and despite an advanced degree and two decades employed here in the states, are having difficulty finding the msomeone to sponsor them abroad. Seems the Swiss aren't keen on taking in Americans right now. Go figure.

My relatives new plan is to transfer internally to their employers German office and take up residency there. All to be closer to their significant other. Loves makes people do strange things.

If you enter any county illegally does it make it right? Of course not. But it's understandable and relatable. And if one adds value, what is gained by forcibly throwing said person out?

Patrick says

Not to mention that the tens of millions of illegals are counted to allocate many Congressional seats to Democrats.

The American taxpayer has no representation. Harvard proved some years ago that citizens have almost zero influence on politics. We are cattle. This is not hyperbole.

Do not listen to people like @GreaterNYCDude. People like this have some vested interest.

GreaterNYCDude says

If your contributing to Swiss society, paying taxes, renting a place to live, etc. why would they not want you to stay?

What if I were not paying taxes?

But the main reason they would not want you to stay is that you are taking a job from a citizen.

Not to mention taking a place to live away from a citizen.

The argument that "the Swiss don't want those jobs" is self-justifying bullshit. Maybe the Swiss don't want those jobs at the wages an illegal alien will accept, but at a Swiss wage, they will do any job.

One interesting part of being in Japan was seeing all jobs done by the Japanese. The Japanese pick vegetables, they clean toilets, they do construction, and they are hardly third-worlders.

GreaterNYCDude says

And who would hire you? This is where the corporations, large and small bear some responsibility. In most other countries if you don't have a work visa you can't get a job.

Absolutely. We are in entire agreement here.

Employers are conspiring against low-income US workers to hire even lower-income aliens. Just to boost profits for themselves. This is a serious crime.

The aliens are merely opportunists who do not give any shits at all about the US citizens they are harming.

GreaterNYCDude says

But it's understandable and relatable. And if one adds value, what is gained by forcibly throwing said person out?

I do not relate to taking advantage of the poorest citizen of another country for one's own profit.

What is gained by deportations?

- higher wages for the poorest US citizens
- more jobs for US citizens
- lower rents for US citizens
- lower medical costs because illegals put their costs onto others
- a far more fair electoral system, where Congress represents only US citizns
- lower crime (too much is made of this by the Trump admin, but it's still true)
- more respect for US immigration and employment law

Glock-n-Load says

The American taxpayer has no representation. Harvard proved some years ago that citizens have almost zero influence on politics. We are cattle. This is not hyperbole.

This is truly the crux of the problem.

The poorest US citizens have the least voice in government, and so they are the ones getting screwed the hardest by the conspiracy between employers, illegals, the Democratic Party, and AWFLs.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/04/16/The-US-is-not-a-democracy-but-an-oligarchy-study-concludes/2761397680051/

April 16, 2014 / 5:47 PM

The US is not a democracy but an oligarchy, study concludes

"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,”

Patrick says

The Japanese pick vegetables, they clean toilets, they do construction, and they are hardly third-worlders.

https://www.imdb.com/es/title/tt27503384/

Japanese guy has happy life cleaning toilets, which he can have only because he is not competing with desperate 3rd worlders.

I understand the empathy for illegals, but it is weaponized empathy used to make money for the rich and to subvert democracy via Congressional misallocation of seats.

What always remains unspoken is the truly vast harm caused to the Americans that the illegals compete with.

Even legal Hispanics are strongly against illegals for that very reason.

Patrick says

Patrick says

The Japanese pick vegetables, they clean toilets, they do construction, and they are hardly third-worlders.

https://www.imdb.com/es/title/tt27503384/

Japanese guy has happy life cleaning toilets, which he can have only because he is not competing with desperate 3rd worlders.

Problem is most US citizens see this as unworthy work. Especially womyn. Their materialism is largely responsible for the decay of public trust and values of grit and hard work in the US. This job should pay 3 times of what a useless hr cat lady gets.

Hard to explain in a meme that illegals are counted for the purpose of allocating Congressional districts.

@GreaterNYCDude I'm sure you're a decent guy. But maybe you haven't really considered the harms caused by mass illegal immigration.

Patrick says

- higher wages for the poorest US citizens
- more jobs for US citizens
- lower rents for US citizens
- lower medical costs because illegals put their costs onto others
- a far more fair electoral system, where Congress represents only US citizns
- lower crime (too much is made of this by the Trump admin, but it's still true)
- more respect for US immigration and employment law

- Less wear and burden on infrastructure (schools, emergency aid/services), esp. in working class areas

Greenbelts and Penthouse heavy areas in Cities fight tooth and nail to ensure school boundaries exclude immigrants, who are shunted onto more modest neighborhoods.

DemoralizerOfPanicans says

Greenbelts and Penthouse heavy areas in Cities fight tooth and nail to ensure school boundaries exclude immigrants, who are shunted onto more modest neighborhoods

Yes, and we also keep out Obama's insta-ghetto subsidized housing complexes, Under the Biden administration they tried putting one of those in my community. We slapped an over 55 community moniker on it. -- Fuck diversity.