patrick.net

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CBO is projecting the deficit for 2025 will be $1.9 trillion, which is the same as Birdbrain Biden's 2024 deficit.

This will be the first time since 2000 that the deficit did not increase (at least when adjusting for inflation).

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Tariffs and Georgist land value taxes can provide all the revenue we need without any income or sales taxes.

SharkyP says

Doesn’t seem right to tax stock purchases. You already are paying a tax on profits. That would mean double taxation.

Depends. You don't pay taxes on appreciation until you sell the stock. Many stocks don't pay dividends at all.

BUT, you pay sales tax on a bag of concrete mix though you already paid Income Tax, SS/MC withholds, etc. on the income you used to buy the concrete.

So why not pay sales tax on a bag of financial instruments as well?

That's the problem I have with "Double Taxation" - it only seems to be a problem with money making money, but ignored when it's labor exchanged for money.

AmericanKulak says

SharkyP says

Doesn’t seem right to tax stock purchases. You already are paying a tax on profits. That would mean double taxation.

Depends. You don't pay taxes on appreciation until you sell the stock. Many stocks don't pay dividends at all.

BUT, you pay sales tax on a bag of concrete mix though you already paid Income Tax, SS/MC withholds, etc. on the income you used to buy the concrete.

So why not pay sales tax on a bag of financial instruments as well?

That's the problem I have with "Double Taxation" - it only seems to be a problem with money making money, but ignored when it's labor exchanged for money.

I consider it double taxation as well. But really if you just charged a flat income tax as low as possible (after other avenues are exhausted) that would work better than artifical transaction fees (in a digital world where most transactions are close to free in cost).

Bankrupt is bankrupt. At some point, the bankruptcy has to be managed. In the meanwhile, there is really no point to NOT extending the credit to its stretching limits to keep the corporate zombie lurching forward.

Kicking the can down the road, or just collapsing the Babylonian bubble later while exploiting it now?

mell says

I consider it double taxation as well. But really if you just charged a flat income tax as low as possible (after other avenues are exhausted) that would work better than artifical transaction fees (in a digital world where most transactions are close to free in cost).

I agree. My beef is that the "Fiscal conservatives" are obsessed with cap gains - which only taxes profits and is voluntary in the sense that you choose when to sell AND can be borrowed against often with more favorable tax treatment.

They ignore the double tax on wage/salary income taxes.

Bankrupt is bankrupt. At some point, the bankruptcy has to be managed. In the meanwhile, there is really no point to NOT extending the credit to its stretching limits to keep the corporate zombie lurching forward.

Kicking the can down the road, or just collapsing the Babylonian bubble later while exploiting it now?

A lot of this 'debt' is corporate vig from the Vatican, IMF, laundering to bribe politicians, and the City of London entities and is illegitimate. These entities are trying to destroy us in addition at the moment. Tavistock isn't there to help people, it is there to vivisect our brains for the dynastics and elites who program the wars.

RWSGFY says

An episode of The Apprentice is being written. Stay tuned.

those savings are peanuts compared to deficits. we are deficit g in trillions. fucking inflation beyond the stars deficits.

and savings and tariffs are drop in a bucket,

Fortwaye says

those savings are peanuts compared to deficits. we are deficit g in trillions. fucking inflation beyond the stars deficits.

and savings and tariffs are drop in a bucket,

Well, maybe Massie will introduce a bill instead of complaining as always.

A great poster child for term limits.

But you know what? Let's give Massie even more cuts - but leaving in the Border Enforcement he "loves", heh heh heh

Yes, it's to create leverage. Drama. The bill will pass and be on Trump's desk by July 4th.

It will codify much of the MAGA agenda, which is why some are against it. The problem is that those against it are using talking points that play to the base.

The dems can't stop this bill. But the swamp knows what buttons to push. How do you counter that?

Well, you take away their talking points and/or make them vote against those talking points.

The biggest enemies of the bill outside of dems are open border/"free traders" who want to end the border security and deportations codified in the bill. Those will entirely change the direction of the coubtry for decades. They are using fiscal conservative talking points to try to derail it instead of being honest about what they really are opposed to. The next are those who want to fund the Ukraine war. Followed closely by those that don't want tax cuts because it limits their power to send out tax money to their friends without massive debt.

So now the stage is set for more spending cuts instead of arguing about the mean gop cutting Medicare and social security.

The narrative has been changed, leverage has been created and those against the bill are caught in their own trap and will be held to their own "principles".
https://x.com/unseen1_unseen/status/1930005996216213857

AmericanKulak says

The biggest enemies of the bill outside of dems are open border/"free traders" who want to end the border security and deportations codified in the bill. Those will entirely change the direction of the coubtry for decades. They are using fiscal conservative talking points to try to derail it instead of being honest about what they really are opposed to.

I think Mish at MishTalk website may somewhat fit this category.

I agree as the costs outweigh the benefits as far as having an open border.

We just have to encourage and create incentives for more Americans willing to work the blue collar jobs like in construction.

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I did some research and Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is projected to add $2.3 trillion to the debt over 10 years.

That means this $230 billion per year is added to the already exciting baseline deficits which was $1.9 trillion in 2024.

That's unreal as I was hoping that at worse the deficits don't increase so that the annual deficit is $1.9 trillion (in 2024 value) for the next 10 years.

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The most significant factor is the extension of the individual and estate tax provisions from the 2017 Tax Cut and Jobs Act (TCJA), which are set to expire at the end of 2025. These extensions alone are estimated to increase deficits by over $2.1 trillion to $3.8 trillion over a decade, depending on the specific provisions included and accounting methods.

I don't know how much adds to the deficit as far as not taxing tips.

Taxing tips was bullshit because nobody ever reported cash tips anyway. So this one is budget-neutral.

AD says

We just have to encourage and create incentives for more Americans willing to work the blue collar jobs like in construction.

Which happens when roofing labor pays more per hour than a Starbucks barrista!

AD says

I did some research and Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is projected to add $2.3 trillion to the debt over 10 years.

Not including economic growth from the tax cuts, which most budget analysis don't include.

RWSGFY says

Taxing tips was bullshit because nobody ever reported cash tips anyway. So this one is budget-neutral.

Most tips are not cash anymore. Diners add the tip to the credit card bill or bar tab.

I know this is true for all the restaurant workers and bartenders I know in Panama City Beach.

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Trump’s Tariffs Would Cut Budget Deficits by $2.8 Trillion, CBO Says

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/06/04/trumps-tariffs-would-cut-budget-deficits-by-2-8-trillion-cbo-says/

There's no way we're getting a single issue spending bill passed anytime soon with 60 Senate Votes required. Any such bill will be so loaded with pork just to have a shot in hell of passing, that passing it would make the deficit worse.

AmericanKulak says

AD says

We just have to encourage and create incentives for more Americans willing to work the blue collar jobs like in construction.

Which happens when roofing labor pays more per hour than a Starbucks barrista!

Weird comparison: both are blue collar jobs.

One takes more skill, is far physically taxing, dirty, sweaty, and is outside in all weathers. Not to mention a high-injury occupation

The other is in Climate Controlled environment where the worse thing that can happen is a burned fingertip or a nasty Karen.

The free market - without being rigged by immigration law violations - will decide that wage.

1. No taxes on tips — servers, bartenders, and bellhops just got a raise Promises made, promises kept

2.Made Trump tax cuts permanent — Biden wanted them to expire.

3.Child tax credit raised to $2,500

4.Overtime pay tax-free — work hard, actually keep more.

5.$1.6 trillion in spending cuts — the largest rollback of government bloat in U.S. history.

http://6.work/ requirement for welfare — able-bodied? Then get off the couch.

7.Deporting 1 million illegal immigrants per year — no more catch and release.

8. Builds the wall—finishes it — 701 miles of serious border protection. Massive!

9.10,000 new ICE agents — law and order at the border. Huge!

10.Eliminates Medicaid for illegal aliens — American benefits for Americans.

11.“Trump Savings Accounts” for kids — build generational wealth from birth. Game changer.

12.Slashes IRS funding — no more 87,000 new agents breathing down your neck.

http://13.green/ New Deal defunded — no more money for solar BS.

http://14.energy/ production unleashed — back to drilling, fracking, etc.

15.Tariffs on Chinese-built ships — protect American shipbuilders.

http://16.buy/ American, build American — required on all infrastructure projects.

http://17.estate/ tax protections expanded — family farms and businesses stay in the family.

18.Repeals DEI mandates — merit matters again. DEI is dying.

19.Bans taxpayer-funded gender ideology in federal agencies.

20.Military pay raise + benefits boost

21.National missile defense (“Golden Dome”)

22.HSA accounts expanded — use them for direct primary care.

http://23.school/ choice tax credits — parents, not unions, control education. Historic!

24.Feds barred from mandating pronoun usage.

25.Medicaid block grants to states — local control, not DC strings. Saves hundreds of billions.

26.Revives apprenticeship programs — college not required to succeed. The cartel hates this.

27.1% of exports must ship under U.S. flag

28.Mandates voter ID for federal elections.

29.Ends ESG mandates in retirement accounts

30.Cracks down on Big Pharma middlemen

31.Bans drag shows for kids at federally funded venues.

32.Fires the climate cult from federal boards

33.Veterans get priority housing access

34. Tax credit for buying American-made vehicles

35.Stops Chinese ownership of U.S. farmland — our soil is finally protected!.

36.Bans CRT from federal training programs.

37.Ends taxpayer-funded abortions abroad. And defunds planned parenthood!

38.Guts federal diversity czars — cuts the bloated bureaucracy.

39.Revives the Keystone XL pipeline
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40. Eliminates federal COVID emergency powers

41.Enacts Social Security tax cuts for seniors.

42.Defends religious liberty in the workplace

43. Restores due process on college campuses.

44. Massively expands trade school funding

45. Outlaws federal funding for gender transitions for minors.

46. Creates nationwide “patriot curriculum” grant fund

47.Halts funding to the UN’s woke agenda arms.

48. Tax breaks for adoption and large families.

49. Increases penalties for fentanyl trafficking — life in prison for cartels.

50. Restores cash bail in federal jurisdictions — no more revolving-door criminals.

And this is just a taste.

Promises made, promises kept.

https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1930402626090479622

AmericanKulak says

The free market - without being rigged by immigration law violations - will decide that wage.

That's the whole issue right there.

There is no "lack of workers", ever. Anyone who parrots that bullshit needs to be slapped, *hard*. Repeatedly.

It's all about the pay rate. At high enough pay, there is never a lack of American workers.

Better list:

Seriously, folks, what in the bill do you not want to spend on?
1. Border security/ wall
2. Mass deportations
3. Golden dome
4. Trump tax cuts are becoming permanent
5. No tax on tips
6. No tax on overtime
7. Deduction for social security tax.
8. Increase child tax credit.
9. Energy production to reduce the cost of energy
10. A $1000 boost to the standard deduction
11. Death tax deduction increases to $15 million and adjusted for inflation going forward before it kicks in.
12. Salt cap deduction increases to $40,000
13. Car interest loan deduction
14. Deduction in small business taxes
15. Fully expensing factory building, equipment, R&D
16. Cut taxes for gun silencers
17. $1000 Maga savings accounts for kids
18. Expansion if navy building
19. Restocking of our ammunition.
20. Increase Troop pay and benefits
21. A revamping of the student loan program to only two programs for repayment
22. Tax on college endowments
23. Tax on remittance
24. Medicaid work requirements/ illegals removed
26. SNAP reform
27. Cut of royalty payments for energy production
28. Land sales in NV and Utah to reduce housing prices.

https://x.com/unseen1_unseen/status/1930420393900150861

Again, none of the liberal, mainline, or deficit hawk NGOs are counting on ONE SINGLE DOLLAR in expanded growth due to these impressive tax cuts over the years. No tax cut in US History hasn't resulted in expanded growth.

Free cocaine and hookers would be nice.

AmericanKulak says

Seriously, folks, what in the bill do you not want to spend on?

On principle government shouldn't pay for citizens' savings accounts and energy production.

The other principle is that one spends according to his means. If the United States can afford these expenditures, then it must raise revenue, which means it must take wealth from the wealth producers.

Another questions is, what else is in the bill that shouldn't be passed into law. Did you read this bill? Is it humanly possible to do so? Is this a Pelosy let's pass it to find out?

Patrick says

There is no "lack of workers", ever. Anyone who parrots that bullshit needs to be slapped, *hard*. Repeatedly.

It's all about the pay rate. At high enough pay, there is never a lack of American workers.

https://prospect.org/labor/2025-05-27-solving-shortage-low-wage-workers/

I wouldn't slap them if they told the truth: there is a shortage of Americans desperate enough to work for very low wages for the benefit of business owners.

Patrick says

I wouldn't slap them if they told the truth: there is a shortage of Americans desperate enough to work for very low wages for the benefit of business owners.

our system has so many flaws that it’s sad at times. wrong thing rewarded.

AmericanKulak says

can be borrowed against often with more favorable tax treatment.

Et tu? Borrowed money is never taxed because it is a loan that must be paid back with interest. Amazing how some think that adding collateral to a loan somehow turns that loan into a form of "tax free income." I can see how someone may borrow money to pay an expense rather than cash out a stock that may be more valuable in the future, but that is an opportunity cost issue and not about taxes. Putting the stocks as collateral only makes sense if it gives a more favorable interest rate or if required for a loan at all. Even so, unlike true income, a loan must be paid back with interest.

HeadSet says

Et tu? Borrowed money is never taxed because it is a loan that must be paid back with interest. Amazing how some think that adding collateral to a loan somehow turns that loan into a form of "tax free income."

What's the alternative to taking a loan out to access the funds?

yawaraf says

The other principle is that one spends according to his means. If the United States can afford these expenditures, then it must raise revenue, which means it must take wealth from the wealth producers.

How are you going to get 10-20M illegals out without spending money?

The amount asked for is a fraction of national income.

"PRINCULPUHLS" is standing on them to shoot yourself in the foot refusing to spend a fraction of what the opposition party last in power did: spending a fortune to bring the illegals in and provide for them in the first place

HeadSet says

AmericanKulak says

can be borrowed against often with more favorable tax treatment.

Et tu? Borrowed money is never taxed because it is a loan that must be paid back with interest. Amazing how some think that adding collateral to a loan somehow turns that loan into a form of "tax free income." I can see how someone may borrow money to pay an expense rather than cash out a stock that may be more valuable in the future, but that is an opportunity cost issue and not about taxes. Putting the stocks as collateral only makes sense if it gives a more favorable interest rate or if required for a loan at all. Even so, unlike true income, a loan must be paid back with interest.

true, and the interest is not tax deductible

I agree as far as cost / benefit analysis, it may be more prudent to borrow money at a 6.5% rate then sell a stock fund which is earning 10%

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So if you borrow money to, say, buy income producing assets, when is the tax INVOLUNTARILY paid : IE you do not control the time you pay taxes on it.

Yet we tax productivity immediately and involuntarily: There is no deciding when to pay income taxes from productivity for maximum benefit.

Sales Taxes on financial instruments. Sales taxes are paid immediately on a tradesman's tools, right? AND on the income derived from that tool and labor behind it. With no decision as to the time or other circumstances; it's paid in the year (or shorter depending on income) it's earned.

Money making money is taxed extremely preferentially and voluntarily, versus productive income based on labor.

One thing the US does not have is a capital shortage; if anything we have too much capital chasing too few opportunities, which is why we slide from asset bubble to asset bubble like a drunken sailor since about the end of the 90s. So there is no economic justification for this treatment.

your stock growing at 10% because of inflation, government spending fiat. that’s not free, inflation makes a lot of people very poor, but makes rich richer as their stuff is inflation protected.

its empty gain. hollow victory.

The price of gold has pretty much tripled since 2019. This is massive inflation caused by 14-figure ($20+ Trillion) money printing, not to mention the brushfire wars that continually threaten WWIII.

stereotomy says

($20+ Trillion) money printing

do you mean global money supply ?

M2 was $15.3 trillion in 2019

M2 is now $22 trillion

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Fortwaye says

your stock growing at 10% because of inflation, government spending fiat. that’s not free, inflation makes a lot of people very poor, but makes rich richer as their stuff is inflation protected.

its empty gain. hollow victory.

you would hope stock market price appreciation is predominantly from innovation and productivity gains

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