patrick.net

I think Tesla will still be standing, but as posted on Patrick.net, the major automakers are downsizing their EV manufacturing.

I think Tesla is going to be improving steadily such as providing up to 600 miles range for even the cheapest of its EV's, the Tesla 3. And this will happen with Tesla still using lithium batteries.

I read Toyota and Volkwagen are going the hydrogen fuel cell route (not lithium batteries) for their EV's.

Eric Holder says

He's just invested shitload of money into the lithiums. Swapping them again would be imprudent.

This is correct. Free cart and AGM batteries weren't a ton cheaper. So the expense was kind of nothing. It's quick with less weight. I can zip around town for pennies. It's nice during the warmer months to get around to the grocery store, gas station and neighbors. Still use it to get the mail in winter at our CBU. I like being outside and fresh air.

I'll trash EV's all day for various reasons. They're cheaper on paper. The government is coming for them though. You can't use the roads for free basically. I don't know the rates everywhere, but isn't is something like 20¢/gallon in most places for gas? It's nothing, but I'll save $200/yr not driving my cart around town. 10 year warranty on the battery.

I've got two lots 3 blocks away. So much easier to use the cart to get there. Still have to drive the car and mower over there, but we'e gonna start our garden of the future over there now as we build. It's going to be big. So a daily trip is easy with the cart.

Saw this and thought of Wookie’s golf cart

Eman says

Saw this and thought of Wookie’s golf cart

You thought right. Still doesn't change my stance on the cars. They're glorified golf carts. You don't know the tech. It's not different. Motors and batteries. Not much else to it besides design and size of battery. Electric carts have been around for 30+ years now. I like Musk. This is nothing new though.

You bought an overpriced car. That's okay. I don't care. Not my money. Just own it is all I ask. I literally can do zero to 60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Electric motors are amazing. I'll never dispute that. Tesla isn't special. We don't have the grid or MFT funds for it to work. That's fact.

WookieMan says

Electric carts have been around for 30+ years now. I like Musk. This is nothing new though.

Can a golf cart go 405 miles on a single charge? If so, how long would it take for a golf cart to travel that 405 miles?

WookieMan says

I literally can do zero to 60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla.

Wookie getting ready to race a Tesla.

WookieMan says

You bought an overpriced car. That's okay. I don't care. Not my money. Just own it is all I ask. I literally can do zero to 60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Electric motors are amazing. I'll never dispute that. Tesla isn't special. We don't have the grid or MFT funds for it to work. That's fact.

It maybe overpriced for you, but not others. I believe I got good value for the car while socal2 didn’t think he overpaid for it.

You can do 0-60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Please do, time it and share the result for all of us to see.

No one says Tesla is special. The reason it makes more sense to buy Tesla over other EVs is due to its charging infrastructure. If one likes speed for the bragging rights, it’s slightly faster than other EVs at the same spec and price range.

We don’t have the grid and MFT funds for it to work. Let’s wait till 2025, like you said, to find out. I’m not a politician. I’m not in the loop or that business to know.

GNL says

WookieMan says

Electric carts have been around for 30+ years now. I like Musk. This is nothing new though.

Can a golf cart go 405 miles on a single charge? If so, how long would it take for a golf cart to travel that 405 miles?

For $10K I can get a golf cart to do that. 100%. Batteries, wheels and motor swap. 55mph. Easy.

Also no Tesla is going 405 miles on a charge without being extremely uncomfortable. 280-300 is max real life at highway speeds. Then sit at a charger for 30 minutes. Can't fit anyone in it. Can't fit luggage or go camping.

Eman says

You can do 0-60 in a golf cart as fast as a Tesla. Please do, time it and share the result for all of us to see.

Yes, people do with carts. I don't because there's no point. My cart is for around town. My car is a V8 that can tow, handle 7 passengers and luggage. Go 400 miles on a 4 minute fill up. Was $30k cheaper than any model Tesla. So the gas doesn't matter over the life of the car.

It's not anything to do with affording it. It's the practicality and function of it. A Tesla is worthless to me no matter how fun it is to drive. I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want one. You specifically don't listen to me and defend an overpriced toy to get A to B. Congrats on wasting $20-50k more then better cars for life. Clearly you don't have kids.

WookieMan says

Also no Tesla is going 405 miles on a charge without being extremely uncomfortable. 280-300 is max real life at highway speeds.

True, at least in my case. Ideally it must reach LA but it doesn't. @WookieMan not sure you realized before wasting your time, @Eman talks to himself most of the time!

Google said 405 mile range for a model X. Please share a video of a golf cart beating a corvette 0 to 60. I'd love to see that.

Blue says

WookieMan says

Also no Tesla is going 405 miles on a charge without being extremely uncomfortable. 280-300 is max real life at highway speeds.

True, at least in my case. Ideally it must reach LA but it doesn't. WookieMan not sure you realized before wasting your time, Eman talks to himself most of the time!

The difference between us is that I just make things work with whatever the current established rules and regulations. I don't whine and bitch like others @Blue.

GNL says

Google said 405 mile range for a model X. Please share a video of a golf cart beating a corvette 0 to 60. I'd love to see that.

It’s actually for the model S. They did a test a couple years ago from the Bay Area to Hawthorn SoCal in one shot. However, the conditions were keeping the speed limit between 65-70 miles with the A/C between levels 2-3.

The faster one drives, the more range EV loses due to higher drag force. Same with using HVAC as the consume more battery.

Another cool feature about Tesla is that one can cool or heat the car remotely. It takes a couple minutes for us here in the Bay Area, but up to 8 minutes for folks in Canada with negative temperature. It’s great for people with young kids/babies.

In summer when it’s 100 degree outside and there’s no shade, one can sit in the car with A/C while there’s no engine running. The same with winter.

I’m sure the golf cart can do the same right, @Wookieman? Oh, and the golf cart can drive itself too.

Tesla - "iTs jUsT A cAR cOMpAnY......."

The latest version of Tesla's Full Self Driving using neural nets and only video for training is unbelievable. There isn't anything close to this in this world and Tesla is adding millions of miles of new training video every single day.

Tesla will be selling this to all of the other OEM's who are still still in business in the next 5 years.

https://twitter.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1756522414845186327

Eman says

Another cool feature about Tesla is that one can cool or heat the car remotely. It takes a couple minutes for us here in the Bay Area, but up to 8 minutes for folks in Canada with negative temperature. It’s great for people with young kids/babies.

Love that feature. I have it as a widget on my phone and never get into my Tesla without having it heated or cooled. Only takes 2-3 minutes.

Another newish feature that came last year was the AUTO seat-heat and steering wheel heat. It just works. I never have to mess around to adjust. I thought I wouldn't like the auto feature at first, but love it now. Same with HVAC. I just leave it at 70 and everything just works. I rarely adjust anything. Granted, my weather is pretty amazing, but I have never driven a car in SoCal where I wasn't always messing with temperature settings and modes.

GNL says

Google said 405 mile range for a model X. Please share a video of a golf cart beating a corvette 0 to 60. I'd love to see that.

107mph in a quarter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29-vBL93eM

Biggest issue is safety. There are plenty of carts that could blow a Corvette or Tesla out of the water speed wise. It is just not safe. Golf carts are mini EV's. I'm not sure the disconnect on this topic.

I was driving electric carts since I was 14 at my country club. The tech has been around forever. I know the families that maintain most of the electric carts in my region. The batteries cost a fortune and always will. That's why the costs have hit the floor at this point. They have to lower size and range to cut costs and make them a 100 mile vehicle range wise. But no one would buy it.

Hybrid EV's are the future. We have copious amounts of oil. My mom has a RAV-4 hybrid and fuels up maybe once a quarter and lives over an hour one way to visit. For the MSRP tag difference on a Tesla I'd take the RAV-4 10 out of 10 times. High speed and acceleration is a small dick syndrome thing. Enjoy that. I'll enjoy my car that can tow 9k lbs with ease and can refuel in 4 minutes and still go further than a Tesla sedan.

WookieMan says

I don't because there's no point. My cart is for around town. My car is a V8 that can tow, handle 7 passengers and luggage. Go 400 miles on a 4 minute fill up. Was $30k cheaper than any model Tesla. So the gas doesn't matter over the life of the car.

It's not anything to do with affording it. It's the practicality and function of it. A Tesla is worthless to me no matter how fun it is to drive. I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want one. You specifically don't listen to me and defend an overpriced toy to get A to B. Congrats on wasting $20-50k more then better cars for life. Clearly you don't have kids.

I tend to agree. By all means, I'm glad Teslas and EVs exist for people who want them and I really hope the innovation continues, but they make no economic or practical sense right now.

porkchopXpress says

WookieMan says

I don't because there's no point. My cart is for around town. My car is a V8 that can tow, handle 7 passengers and luggage. Go 400 miles on a 4 minute fill up. Was $30k cheaper than any model Tesla. So the gas doesn't matter over the life of the car.

It's not anything to do with affording it. It's the practicality and function of it. A Tesla is worthless to me no matter how fun it is to drive. I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want one. You specifically don't listen to me and defend an overpriced toy to get A to B. Congrats on wasting $20-50k more then better cars for life. Clearly you don't have kids.

I tend to agree. By all means, I'm glad Teslas and EVs exist for people who want them and I really hope the innovation continues, but they make no economic or practical sense right now.

EVs work for a certain group of people, or as a commuter vehicle for some with an ICE vehicle to also use. They shouldn’t be pushed on people with bullshit mandates for phasing out ICE vehicle purchase/production, government incentives for purchase, lack of remittance of alternative MFT for road use, and government subsidies for charging stations/locations that are in excess of anything the liquid fuels industry receives.

porkchopXpress says

WookieMan says

I don't because there's no point. My cart is for around town. My car is a V8 that can tow, handle 7 passengers and luggage. Go 400 miles on a 4 minute fill up. Was $30k cheaper than any model Tesla. So the gas doesn't matter over the life of the car.

It's not anything to do with affording it. It's the practicality and function of it. A Tesla is worthless to me no matter how fun it is to drive. I could buy 5 tomorrow. I don't want one. You specifically don't listen to me and defend an overpriced toy to get A to B. Congrats on wasting $20-50k more then better cars for life. Clearly you don't have kids.

I tend to agree. By all means, I'm glad Teslas and EVs exist for people who want them and I really hope the innovation continues, but they make no economic or practical sense right now.

Porkchop,

Serious question. Have you ever owned an EV or a Tesla? My wife and I used to be ICE car drivers, and we don’t see ourselves ever going back to to ICE cars.

EV may not make economic and practical sense for everyone, but it does for some. Just like voting, some people think a politician is a loser while others believe otherwise. If I ever had to own a full size SUV, it would be a Toyota Land Cruiser or Sequoia. It would never buy a Nissan Armada. No reason to buy a second or third tier Japanese SUV.

WookieMan says

107mph in a quarter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29-vBL93eM

That is impressive but it's more gimmick than a Tesla. There's no disconnect though, I've never thought EVs were the way to go either for a bunch of reasons that have been thoroughly covered. I do like the the hybrid concept and I'll probably end up with getting one as my or my wife's next vehicle.

GNL says

WookieMan says

107mph in a quarter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29-vBL93eM

That is impressive but it's more gimmick than a Tesla. There's no disconnect though, I've never thought EVs were the way to go either for a bunch of reasons that have been thoroughly covered. I do like the the hybrid concept and I'll probably end up with getting one as my or my wife's next vehicle.

Yup, I agree hybrid is the way to go. However, EV meets our needs with basically no maintenance and going to the gas stations once a week.

We don’t see ourselves buying a used vehicle ever again. Having the warranty and extended warranty is a must for us.

Time is money right? EV saves us time.

I just don't understand why they wouldn't put more thought into the look of the cars though. There are so many cars out there that look a lot better than a Tesla.

Eman says

Same with using HVAC as the consume more battery.

On that Bolt EUV I had, the battery was constantly cooled and if you wanted A/C, it tapped off of the battery cooler. Running A/C did not affect the range, however running a heater did. That A/C was quite powerful and cooled the cabin fast.

HeadSet says

Eman says

Same with using HVAC as the consume more battery.

On that Bolt EUV I had, the battery was constantly cooled and if you wanted A/C, it tapped off of the battery cooler. Running A/C did not affect the range, however running a heater did. That A/C was quite powerful and cooled the cabin fast.

Tiny car, no?

GNL says

Tiny car, no?

Like a RAV4. What is your point? I suspect that if Chevy made that Silverado electric, the systems would work the same way.

HeadSet says

GNL says

Tiny car, no?

Like a RAV4. What is your point? I suspect that if Chevy made that Silverado electric, the systems would work the same way.

I was thinking a tiny car would cool down quicker than a larger car.

Eman says

EV may not make economic and practical sense for everyone, but it does for some.

Yes, particularly to those who collect others tax money under "gov incentives" ;) this incentives can apply to so many other vehicles under business expenses.
(PS: I have to admit that I am one of them to be honest for my Tesla plaid model s)

HeadSet says

Eman says

Same with using HVAC as the consume more battery.

On that Bolt EUV I had, the battery was constantly cooled and if you wanted A/C, it tapped off of the battery cooler. Running A/C did not affect the range, however running a heater did. That A/C was quite powerful and cooled the cabin fast.

Yes, A/C doesn’t consume much. Heat consumes more. However, it heats up quickly. Kind of like a hair dryer.

GNL says

I just don't understand why they wouldn't put more thought into the look of the cars though. There are so many cars out there that look a lot better than a Tesla.

Aerodynamic would be my guess. The S looks good. The refreshed model 3 looks good. Model X looks alright. Model Y is getting a facelift this year too.

I don’t know why and how the Cybertruck made the cut. I needed the truck then, but no longer need one now so I’m not buying. I told my wife it it weren’t made by Tesla, no one would buy this fugly Cybertruck. 😅

Blue says

Eman says

EV may not make economic and practical sense for everyone, but it does for some.

Yes, particularly to those who collect others tax money under "gov incentives" ;) this incentives can apply to so many other vehicles under business expenses.
(PS: I have to admit that I am one of them to be honest for my Tesla plaid model s)

Tesla sold its EVs just fine without the tax incentives in 2022. In fact, Elon said no tax incentives. The government is the one who came up with these incentives. Sorry, but we don’t get to decide. It is what it is.

As I previously mentioned, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Joe Rogan in 30 sec on the Cybertruck.
https://x.com/nicklasnilsso14/status/1758777471833415925?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Electric cars are so heavy that a guard rail is absolutely no match for them:


original link

Eman says

The government is the one who came up with these incentives. Sorry, but we don’t get to decide. It is what it is.

Isn't dumbocracy and and freedumb great?

Eman says

Aerodynamic would be my guess. The S looks good.

No. 99.99% of cars on the road would have less drag if they drove backwards. The only vehicle that is actually designed to limit drag is the Aptera and that's in development hell.

Unless the back of the car is more tapered than the font, aerodynamics was ignored. It has to be a tear drop shape.

Eman says

As I previously mentioned, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Joe Rogan in 30 sec on the Cybertruck.
https://x.com/nicklasnilsso14/status/1758777471833415925?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

I give zero shits about looks. I drove a Pontiac Aztec for 2 years because it was cheap and had utility. Cyber Truck is useless for utility. It's not debatable. There's no range with load or towing. I give zero shits about speed. I don't need to kick my car, hit it with a hammer or shoot a bow and arrow at it. That's retarded. You pay a premium for status and stupid shit that should never happen to your car if you're a good driver. That's it. Gas is cheaper. Again, not debatable.

I live modest and have almost $2M in savings at 40. I'm not dropping $80k on a car that can't go 100 miles with a trailer and sit at a charging station for 30 minutes plus to maybe get another 100 miles out of it. It's a stupid vehicle. It's a tax write off for poor business owners that think they're smart. Musk isn't stupid. He knew what he built and have admitted as much. It looks cool to him. It's not a good car. It was a pet project.

Sales will dry up. Fly over country isn't buying them. Market saturation will be 18-24 months.

WookieMan says

I drove a Pontiac Aztec for 2 years

Everyone I knew that had an Aztec loved it.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

I drove a Pontiac Aztec for 2 years

Everyone I knew that had an Aztec loved it.

My parents had 3. It was a flop commercially. It was a cooler car than you'd think though. I guess maybe that's what the Cyber Truck is trying to go for. I stacked two pontoon boats on a trailer coming from the Quad Cities. I'd have had to stop at least two times to make the distance I needed with a Cyber Truck. A touch sketchy with a V-6, but made it without fueling up. Not a chance in hell I'm doing that in a EV.

Patrick says

Legend.