patrick.net

P2D2 says

In my opinion, providing material support without expecting any return is donation. We can play with the words as much we can, but it does not change the fact.

If you have a business with a website, you can buy a permanent link to it on my website for as little as a $1. There's a good chance you'll see at least some traffic increase which might result in a sale.

After you've left an opera performance for which you've paid $78 * 2, did you provide material support to the opera company and didn't get anything back in return? I'm not an opera, but a public performance -- even if it is online -- is something that I hope you will get in return for your material support.

v-max1200 says

Why is there emphasis on ‘contribution’ vs ‘donation’? Seems to me that by asking for a contribution he doesn’t want to pay tax on it expecting the people that would ‘contribute’ to pay the tax on that income. So, that ‘contributing person’ helps this guy on his house payment directly and the taxes he paid on that income go to help everyone else in the same situation indirectly. When does it end???
I’m 34, a renter, and live in the SF Bay Area. I sell medical devices and make a good living. My wife works full time as well. I would love to own a house but it is unrealistic, as was the case for this guy. However, he took a gamble and lost. If he would have made $300K on this house would he be giving out the profits to everyone he is now asking for help. Nope, so lets chock this up to experience and move on.
Sorry about the child, I think that is awful. However, if we look at the population of the world there are very few people in this kind of financial pain hoping to stay in a house that they paid $500K for. That is a huge amount of money and it will take a lot of pain like this for people to realize how out-to-lunch they were in their thinking. This correction is going to catch people that need to appreciate what they have vs what they don’t. I also believe this guy’s second job should be trying to find a higher paying job. I love to snowboard and backpack but would never hope that it would pay the bills in a time when I need to pay them.

I will be paying taxes on the contributions -- where is this tax-free idea coming from?

I have a great six-figure salary. I love my job.

I have great potential to be very useful to this society. I'm already useful, since I pay in taxes every year more than an average American makes before taxes. However, if I stopped feeding Chase as much, I could be even more useful.

For example, I could donate my visual contribution framework to the world to make it easier to raise money for something that is easy to visualize. Say there is a program that's trying to raise money to replant a deforested area -- my solution fits that use case perfectly.

P2D2 says

v-max1200 says

If he would have made $300K on this house would he be giving out the profits to everyone he is now asking for help.

Well said!
There are many people who profited in the bubble era when they sold their properties. I don’t see them coming back and helping underwater homeowners. May be that should have been the correct solution for government - taxing past real estate profits retroactively and using that tax money to help underwater homedebtors. Ironically those who profited from real estate in bubble era didn’t pay a single penny of tax on their capital gains.
Where is the seller who sold his property to this guy? Probably he is using his money for cruise vacation.

The couple that sold us this house spent many years restoring it. They bought it when it was condemned for demolition -- it was a crack house that was literally falling apart. They poured a new foundation, moved it, and raised the first floor by 6 feet. Then they had a baby and ran out of steam (if they had finished work on the house, it would have sold for a lot more in 2006), fortunately just at the right time.

The only thing I'm a little upset about is that they did a terrible job on the electricity -- it's a mess. Oh well, I'll figure out a way to fix it. I already bought an electrical repairs book. I don't feel a single bit of resentment or anger toward them. I'm happy they were able to catch a break. I want them to travel the world and I want for their children to be able to attend good schools. They worked hard and smart and I'm very happy for them.

I will donate $50 if you agree to meet meet me for coffee.

This reminds of something.....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/1389/saturday-night-live-dont-buy-stuff

Some Guy says

andrei.soroker says

However, if I stopped feeding Chase as much, I could be even more useful.

By “feeding”, do you mean paying back the money that they loaned you? I would say, just off the top of my head, if you don’t want to pay back money, you probably shouldn’t borrow it.

I don't want to pay back the money, no. But I will. Paying for something that's worth a lot less than I borrowed to buy it doesn't make me feel good at all. But I will do everything I can to pay that money back, because there is my signature on that loan. And I actually like living in my house, I don't have buyer's remorse in that sense.

For example, I could donate my visual contribution framework to the world to make it easier to raise money for something that is easy to visualize. Say there is a program that’s trying to raise money to replant a deforested area — my solution fits that use case perfectly.

You mean you would share your idea of asking for donations on a web site? Wow, you invented that, huh?

No, I didn't invent that concept. But I couldn't find an implementation that is similar to mine. So far no one has pointed to one either.

I don't quite understand the nature of your animosity toward me. You seem to pick apart little insignificant components of a much larger picture, while steering perfectly clear of trying to understand that larger picture.

Yeah, I am with Some Guy on this one. I don't hate you or anything, but to me you are indicative of a much larger problem - seems everybody wants a magical bail out from their self imposed problems. There's a lot I want too, could have easily gotten myself that dream horse property I always wanted, but I did some simple addition and realized that no, even with 2 good salaries I could not afford to be half a million dollars in debt. How on earth would I ever pay it off?

Seems you and so many others jumped on the "I want it now" bandwagon, and you all want someone to bail you out...whether it be the banks, or the government, or a quick buck in the stock market, or a winning lottery ticket, or some cockamamie idea to try to get other people to give you money.

Ooooops! Now that mommy and daddy wont bail me out, who will??

And have you noticed lately, it's never about "earning" money anymore, It's about "making money". There's a very subtle difference in the psychology between the two that IMO it makes a big difference in our society.

Some Guy says

Well I guess it’s that I’m getting a vibe from you that you don’t feel that Chase should be taking your money. It’s not really their fault that you overpaid for the house, is it? And sorry, but it just strikes me as a little pompous that you want people to help you be free of debt so that you can “share” your website idea with the world. I don’t really see anything there that anyone hasn’t thought of before.

No, quite the opposite: I think Chase should be taking my money. And I don't blame anyone but myself for overpaying for the house.

I stated before that my goal is reducing the principal on the high-interest second mortgage. I'll still be in a lot of debt, but I'll be walking on much firmer ground.

By "share my website idea" I mean developing a free service that makes it possible for anyone to use the visual donation framework. It's just an example of how I can be more useful to society than currently.

"Thought of before" and "implemented" are vastly different concepts. Show me a free service that makes it possible for people to buy little parts of a collage of children's paintings to help them raise money for ... (whatever our schools need money for).

P2D2 says

Where is the seller who sold his property to this guy? Probably he is using his money for cruise vacation.

Remember, nobody had a crystal ball. What is more likely is the guy who sold this house to andrei.soroker used the proceds to buy himself a trade up home.

I really wanted to help this poor soul, but this is the message I got when I tried to click the link;

Welcome! Unfortunately, you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 (IE6), a browser I refuse to support.
.... blah blah blah.

Well if you feel that way about it, I decline to assist you in your goal. Looks like he lost the interest of 17% of potential doners right off the bat. (this is the percentage of people he claims stll run IE6)

Some Guy says

interpretame says

Tude says; “Yeah, I am with Some Guy on this one. I don’t hate you or anything, but to me you are indicative of a much larger problem”

Let’s give this guy a break. The poor dipshit is simply trying to get himself out of the mess he’s in. I personally don’t care whether he does it by selling music or one of his kidneys, since I’m NOT planning on buying either one.

He’s not selling music; he’s asking for donations on a website. I don’t have a problem with that. I have a problem with pretending it’s something that it’s not. Well actually, I do have a tiny problem with that. Why are people donating money to someone who has a “six figure salary”, when the average person is struggling on about HALF that. There are people who don’t even get enough to EAT, and for whom a half-million dollar home would be the wildest dream.

I never said I'm jobless. Where I am pretending? Where am I misleading you? I'm not selling music in the same way street musicians are not selling music.

Financially, I am almost OK. I just need to pay off my second mortgage. I have to right to attempt to do this any way I can come up with. And you have the right to dislike my way. It's a free country!

I don't understand why some of my comments are "awaiting moderation". It's pretty annoying.

I don't give street musicians money out of pity, or because I think they need the money. I do it when, and if, they entertain me and make me smile. I couldn't care less how much money they have or what they do when they're not playing. I think the people who are bashing this guy are just jealous that he came up with a creative way to have some fun and make some money that hasn't been done before. If you don't want to give him money, don't. Nobody's forcing you.

Some Guy says

andrei.soroker says

I never said I’m jobless. Where I am pretending? Where am I misleading you? I’m not selling music in the same way street musicians are not selling music.

I did not say you were jobless; in fact I said the opposite. You are asking for donations on a website. If you wish to do that, then more power to you. Why pretend that it’s a “job” and that you are “selling” music. That’s not what you’re doing.
In fact, most people give money to street musicians because they assume the musician is struggling and needs the money. I would wager that if the average person who dropped a few dollars in a street musician’s guitar case, later found out that said street musician actually commanded a six-figure salary, that they would be rather upset. Besides that, you aren’t performing for people, you are simply posting a recording on a website. If a street musician left a tape of himself playing on a speaker with a hat out, and went out to work another job, do you think anyone would drop money in the hat? I rather doubt it. I just don’t think any of your analogies pan out. You are not an opera. Opera musicians spend more time perfecting their art than you can probably even conceive of. And you are not a street musician. Street musicians are actually there, performing live, not trying to get donations in absentia.

It's not strictly speaking a "job", because I don't have a salary, timesheets, a manager, or any guarantee of pay. It's a potential source of income. It's an attempt at a self-bailout. It's countless hours in a very wide array of disciplines. And you've got the right to dismiss all of the above and claim I'm doing nothing and hoping for donations. Your right -- free country.

I performed for people on the radio yesterday. Is that not performing for people? Is that "simply singing into a microphone in a cozy studio on the 10th floor of a building in San Francisco?" Today, unfortunately, we have to settle for ways of public performances other than in flesh. It's your right to not consider a public recording a way of performing for people -- free country.

When did I say I was an opera? When? But it's your right to believe that I said it -- free country.

Off topic, but I don't know why most people don't give money to street musicians. Perhaps because they think street musicians are surely collecting for crack/weed/vodka. I'm telling you upfront what my guitar case is for -- it is your right to disagree with the cause -- free country.

I'm afraid I will not be able to convince you that my attempt is genuine and that I'm not a scam artist. This is unfortunate, but I'm most grateful to you for keeping our conversation reasonably civil. I wish you best of luck in whatever adventures you find yourself devoted to.

Sometimes my comments are "awaiting moderation." Don't know why, but sometmes it happens.

Ya'll lost me on the donation vs. contribution thing. But does it matter? Donate or contribute, if you wish. Or don't.

BTW, I took out a second on my house in 2005 to help pay for the COBRA when I was laid off, it was a whopping $20k and I felt okay about it. No, I didn't ask for contributions from ya'll (or donations, for that matter), but I'll take 'em if you'll send 'em...

Well, if you see Patrick, please ask him to moderate my reply to TechGromit regarding IE6.

Pretty animated discussions so far. As the poster who started this thread, let me say this:

@ andrei.soroker:
First off, I commend you on finding this thread and answering people's comments / questions.

I am a bay area renter. I, along with a lot of others, are sick of these 'media stories' that portray bubble-era home buyer as 'victims'. Lets face it, lot of buyers bought at the height of bubble and are deluded into thinking 'the price they paid is the normal price, and now houses are under valued'. It is not. We are moving towards 'normal' - even by bay area standards.

We are a family of two incomes (in tech field). And we can pay for an overpriced home any where in bay area. But we didn't buy. Because we want to find something that we can support in one person income. You know in case, one person has to stop working to take care of baby, laid off, or got sick..etc
We want to live within our means. We didn't drink the 'cool - aid' of 'housing always goes up'. We are still waiting, b/c the house prices are out of whack with salaries.

So as you can see, I don't 'break out the violin' when I see a story 'victim home buyer' who is blaming the 'evil banks' for not modifying the loan ...etc (this is not you, but you can find so many stories like this)

I understand your situation and I certainly hope you guys work it out.
But you DON'T have my sympathy. There are a lot people in this world that live in abject poverty and conditions beyond their control (refugees ..etc). Compared to these people you still have choices
1) you can afford to pay the mortgage (you said so yourself, you have a six figure salary)
2) you can walk away from the house with your savings and 401k ..etc intact

If I want to be selfish, I would have to encourage you to walk :-)
1) This way, the house is foreclosed on and some one else can buy it at a reasonable value from the bank
2) because of the foreclosure, your credit is dinged and you are out of the housing market for next 5-7 years (unless you can afford to buy all-cash).... less compeition for me

Salute!

@permanent_marker --

I admire you for playing smart and staying away from real estate. The reason the USA hasn't completely imploded in the last few years is because of people like you.

My family came to San Francisco in late 1994 from Russia (Western Siberia (there's a great article about Siberia in the latest New Yorker, btw)) to start a new life. We didn't just abandon our home, we abandoned our country, our family, and our friends. We abandoned our cat and our dog (we were told we couldn't bring them). I abandoned the language I grew up speaking -- by the age of 13 you hope to have accumulated at least some cred to survive in high school; I didn't even understand what people were saying to me while poking fun. I'm not complaining -- I'm a much better man because of all this. But I'm done abandoning.

As an immigrant I have a very acute understanding that the long-term well-being of my family -- both of my children and parents -- depends on me. Last week, by some unlucky coincidence both my parents lost their jobs. Oh, they'll be fine (my mother found a new job already), and I even think it's for the better in the long run, but the vulnerability of my family as a unit is the driving force behind most decisions I make. We don't have a financial base or any fully-owned real estate -- it's my job to make it happen, and I don't have very much time.

So what if we've PhDs, Masters degrees, and good jobs. We're still immigrants. We'll be more reckless than those smart Americans we hope to become one day.

Some immigrants open corner stores, some immigrants open laundromats, some immigrants open restaurants, some immigrants go into real estate. I'm busking online.

:-)

@ andrei.soroker

Owning a home is even more important to immigrants, it gives a sense of putting down root in your new homeland. And ownership is highly priced in immigrant communities.

Best of luck to you & family.

TechGromit says

I really wanted to help this poor soul, but this is the message I got when I tried to click the link;
Welcome! Unfortunately, you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 (IE6), a browser I refuse to support.

…. blah blah blah.
Well if you feel that way about it, I decline to assist you in your goal. Looks like he lost the interest of 17% of potential doners right off the bat. (this is the percentage of people he claims stll run IE6)

This is the page TechGromit is referring to: http://pleasehelpmepayoffmyhouse.com/noie6

I didn't mean to offend you. Why are you using IE6?

IE6 is a terrible problem for web developers -- they have to produce what essentially amounts to another code base to support IE6. IE6 is also very insecure -- the worst case scenario will cause you monetary loss.

The only reasonable excuse I can accept for using IE6 is working for a company that enforces IE6 to be the _only_ browser on your machine. Other excuses are not reasonable.

I'm not a web developer in my regular life, and I was pretty astonished at the amount of work I would have had to go through to make the page work in IE6.

I had these choices:
-- let it be broken in IE6, without acknowledging the fact (lame)
-- spend another month or two creating an IE6 version (didn't have the time, knowledge, professionally interested in IE6 dying off)
-- join the movement of helping people find better alternatives

I chose the latter, because it seemed most honest.

Some websites detect IE6 and render a nice message recommending another browser. No one will care about that little message. In order for people to listen, you have to deny content.

TechGromit, you will be fine if you will never see my website. Once slightly bigger players follow suit, you'll have to upgrade to at least IE7 (also a terrible browser), because very interesting segments of the internet will become unavailable.

Stuff like this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/14/AR2009071401088.html

Again, TechGromit, I'm sorry if I offended you with that page, but sometimes the technicalities of the software development world spill out into the area of life where they are not welcome. This is one of those cases, and I truly hope the conversation will become moot in a few years' time.

zetabeos1 says

before the bubble ever started? I see comments on SFgate that your home was sold before the bubble in 1999 for $50K. You will never break even in your life time. Send the keys to the bank and call it quits.
BTW, your donations are technically source of income, which are taxable! Keep sinking yourself into the pit.
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

I agree, even though, I sincerely hope you get out of the mess smoothly, the chances are very slim. So, take a step back and realize the probability. I think you should probably walk away, when the system is dumb, take advantage of it, rather than fighting it as many people do.

Good luck! Hope everything works out for you.

Patrick, it took three days (or thereabouts) to moderate my reply to TechGromit. This makes it a little difficult to have a conversation.

Some Guy says

Andrei, your website doesn’t work well on Firefox either. I couldn’t get the videos to play, and quickly lost interest in trying to get them to do so.

Could you tell me which version of FF you are using and which OS? I will test in with your environment to see if I can reproduce the problem.

You can always look at the videos directly here: youtube.com/sorok3b8

I've seen these problems before, but I was under the impression that YouTube had something to do with it.

I will fix any issues reported with the website that I can reproduce.

My reply to @dont_getit is awaiting moderation. @dont_getit, in a few days you should be able to read it.

Some Guy says

Actually, it seems to be working now, although it’s giving some sort of script error. I’m no expert on designing web pages; I just know that well-written ones never seem to have these sorts of problems.

Well-written websites are rarely written by backend engineers (we should all be grateful for this).

If you could tell the details of the script error (line number of any other information associated with the error) as well as which browser you are using, I will probably be able to fix the problem.

dont_getit says

zetabeos1 says

before the bubble ever started? I see comments on SFgate that your home was sold before the bubble in 1999 for $50K. You will never break even in your life time. Send the keys to the bank and call it quits.

BTW, your donations are technically source of income, which are taxable! Keep sinking yourself into the pit.

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

I agree, even though, I sincerely hope you get out of the mess smoothly, the chances are very slim. So, take a step back and realize the probability. I think you should probably walk away, when the system is dumb, take advantage of it, rather than fighting it as many people do.
Good luck! Hope everything works out for you.

I don't know if people are fighting the system. What I see and read about is either people abusing the system (because the system is dumb) or giving up and leaving the system altogether. All I'm trying to do is repay what I borrowed and I'm pretty sure in the end I will succeed.

Lots of people have a very singular view of Oakland (angry black people running around in the run-down streets killing each other), but the truth is very different. Oakland is a very diverse city -- it does have a lot of crime, yes, but it also has neighborhoods that will rival even the best areas of San Francisco (and the weather is better!).

The reason for Oakland's crime shouldn't just be ignored. I believe there are way to fix it, and the place to start is quadrupling teacher salaries and methodically introducing free after school and summer programs with art and technology classes in the worst neighborhoods. In seven years you will see some kids graduate from high school and go to college instead of prison.

I have nothing kind to say about the city government -- Oakland is run worse than the USSR.

My house has 2000 square feet of livable space, a front and a back yard, and off-street parking for two cars. Half of the livable space needs to be finished -- new floor, paint, and another bathroom, but it's all very doable with some money. The house also has a new foundation built to code. It's not a shack and it was a great find.

My house is 2 blocks away from the West Oakland BART station -- this means a 10-minute commute to downtown SF, either by public transportation or car. I can't even describe how cool and convenient this is. Today, you could buy a foreclosed house near me for under 100K. Go for it! Over the next year all those foreclosed properties will be bought and the market will change yet again. I'm not worried -- all this is for the better. I'm glad the housing market burst. I'm sorry for all those who had to lose their homes, but that's the way things go.

Neighborhoods transform. Usually for the better, in the Bay Area. For this to happen, it takes a few brave souls and an infinity of skeptics.

When my parents bought a house in the Temescal area of Oakland, it wasn't called "Temescal". We were scared out of our minds. Every week, a truck load of construction garbage (concrete, etc) was dumped in the middle of the street right in front of their house. People sold drugs across the street and prostitutes operated nearby, leaving condoms and other prostitution-related garbage, almost on a daily basis.

Then a few people bought homes near my parents and things started happening. Brush was cleared. Anti-dumping signs went up. Lights were installed. Speed bumps showed up. Drug dealers lost their house. Houses got painted. Restaurants opened. McArthur BART station got those funny neon lights in its underpass and -- the neighborhood is now called Temescal.

West Oakland will get there too.

Oh, is this called "gentrification" and it's a bad thing? I want to gentrificate everything, if it will reduce the amount of garbage that gets dumped in front of people's homes.

andrei.soroker says

Patrick, it took three days (or thereabouts) to moderate my reply to TechGromit. This makes it a little difficult to have a conversation.

Sorry about that. I'm actually in Germany at the moment and was without internet access for a few days. But now I'm back online, and should be able to moderate quickly. Soon I'll just have moderation requests sent to my phone and do it instantly.

I don't understand the moderation algorithm of Wordpress. One more thing to figure out and change.

Is it possible to have multiple mods, like on the old forum? That would make it easier on you.

andrei.soroker says

dont_getit says

zetabeos1 says

before the bubble ever started? I see comments on SFgate that your home was sold before the bubble in 1999 for $50K. You will never break even in your life time. Send the keys to the bank and call it quits.
BTW, your donations are technically source of income, which are taxable! Keep sinking yourself into the pit.
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

I agree, even though, I sincerely hope you get out of the mess smoothly, the chances are very slim. So, take a step back and realize the probability. I think you should probably walk away, when the system is dumb, take advantage of it, rather than fighting it as many people do.

Good luck! Hope everything works out for you.

I don’t know if people are fighting the system. What I see and read about is either people abusing the system (because the system is dumb) or giving up and leaving the system altogether. All I’m trying to do is repay what I borrowed and I’m pretty sure in the end I will succeed.
Lots of people have a very singular view of Oakland (angry black people running around in the run-down streets killing each other), but the truth is very different. Oakland is a very diverse city — it does have a lot of crime, yes, but it also has neighborhoods that will rival even the best areas of San Francisco (and the weather is better!).
The reason for Oakland’s crime shouldn’t just be ignored. I believe there are way to fix it, and the place to start is quadrupling teacher salaries and methodically introducing free after school and summer programs with art and technology classes in the worst neighborhoods. In seven years you will see some kids graduate from high school and go to college instead of prison.
I have nothing kind to say about the city government — Oakland is run worse than the USSR.
My house has 2000 square feet of livable space, a front and a back yard, and off-street parking for two cars. Half of the livable space needs to be finished — new floor, paint, and another bathroom, but it’s all very doable with some money. The house also has a new foundation built to code. It’s not a shack and it was a great find.
My house is 2 blocks away from the West Oakland BART station — this means a 10-minute commute to downtown SF, either by public transportation or car. I can’t even describe how cool and convenient this is. Today, you could buy a foreclosed house near me for under 100K. Go for it! Over the next year all those foreclosed properties will be bought and the market will change yet again. I’m not worried — all this is for the better. I’m glad the housing market burst. I’m sorry for all those who had to lose their homes, but that’s the way things go.
Neighborhoods transform. Usually for the better, in the Bay Area. For this to happen, it takes a few brave souls and an infinity of skeptics.
When my parents bought a house in the Temescal area of Oakland, it wasn’t called “Temescal”. We were scared out of our minds. Every week, a truck load of construction garbage (concrete, etc) was dumped in the middle of the street right in front of their house. People sold drugs across the street and prostitutes operated nearby, leaving condoms and other prostitution-related garbage, almost on a daily basis.
Then a few people bought homes near my parents and things started happening. Brush was cleared. Anti-dumping signs went up. Lights were installed. Speed bumps showed up. Drug dealers lost their house. Houses got painted. Restaurants opened. McArthur BART station got those funny neon lights in its underpass and — the neighborhood is now called Temescal.
West Oakland will get there too.
Oh, is this called “gentrification” and it’s a bad thing? I want to gentrificate everything, if it will reduce the amount of garbage that gets dumped in front of people’s homes.

Andrei, thanks for the post that explains your view. Please understand, I am not against your idea, in fact, I think its cool to do something like that instead of asking for bailout.

My point is this: You believed that the house was worth half a mil and bought into it, good for you, you got 80/20 and no down payment. All I am saying is, this is a system designed for people like you. Walk away. If you are expecting your house would appraise to half a mil in the next couple of years, you still havent stopped drinking that kool aid that made you buy this place. Granted that I dont know anything about Oakland, except the hearsays which are no good, but, I find it hard to believe that the place where houses are selling for 100K will appreciate to 500K in a matter of years, it might be decades before you see it. Instead of stressing out on the house, if I were you, I would have walked out, let the bank(and obviously us responsible taxpayers who are still renting) hold the bag. Take a hit on your credit, live with cash for 7 years, and then fix your credit, I bet you can buy your house back for probably half of what you paid.

Its very refreshing to see that you feel guilty for not paying debt, but, hey this is america, we dont pay our debts. So, enjoy it before the homestead rule is changed.

"I want to regain ground, but I will not seek nor accept any bailout programs — I created the mess and I'm going to fix it myself. I don't believe in handouts, but I do believe in encouraging creativity, self-sufficiency, and innovation to solve all of the world's problems."

banks are also very creative on getting those bailouts.

By accepting money from people and use a crummy excuse like recording music you are already accepting bailouts. This makes you worse than someone that asks for help.

Trivial says

“I want to regain ground, but I will not seek nor accept any bailout programs — I created the mess and I’m going to fix it myself. I don’t believe in handouts, but I do believe in encouraging creativity, self-sufficiency, and innovation to solve all of the world’s problems.”
banks are also very creative on getting those bailouts.
By accepting money from people and use a crummy excuse like recording music you are already accepting bailouts. This makes you worse than someone that asks for help.

Perhaps our definitions of "bailout" differ? A bailout is like this: one with a large family of dependents goes to a casino every day for twenty years and wastes away an unbelievable fortune. And then gets a bunch of money from the government (read: from your grandchildren) to "restructure".

See, "crummy excuse" -- well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. And that's the beauty of the game -- don't like, don't play.

Lot of people of doing Monday morning quarterbacking and saying his was a bad decision, but that will be like trying to time the market. Everyday we see stock market swings, some stocks have high valuations with respect to others while some others not. People always say don't try to time the market if you're in the long haul. If somebody looking to buy a house during go-go times and month after month they keep apprecitaing, what do you do, you bite the bullet and jump in. Just like stock market been doing recently. Do you wait on side lines of the recently rally and miss out future gains or jump in now for long haul and risk the downside? I think this engineer looks to be in the long haul regarding his house purchase and his timing could have been better, who knew then? Regarding him trying to raise money by some performance, I don't see anything wrong either, either you like his performance and if you get something out of it, you pay what you fit to pay for it, otherwise don't pay if you feel like its not what you expected. Lot of times I go to movies based on hype and it turns out to be really crappy, nobody refunds me ticket money. What he is doing is better

@dont_getit -- I replied to your comment and it's been in moderation all day.

Let's try it again:

Thanks for your reply. The situation with 100K is a temporary phenomenon created by foreclosures. My neighborhood had an unbelievably high rate of those. Neighborhoods where homes cost about 700K in 2006 didn’t see such a crazy drop in prices.

This makes sense: the more vulnerable the area, the faster and harder it falls during hard times.

The truth is I’m not devastated (upset, but not devastated) that my house probably won’t cost 500K for decades to come. I like the house and I want to keep living there and make the neighborhood better.

I don’t want you or anyone else (other than me) to be responsible for my debt — in a country whose financial system evolved to always side on the debtor’s side this is a revolutionary concept. But I don’t believe in walking away from debts. So I’ll continue working and improvising to pay off my mortgage. My busking website already made a small, but noticeable difference in the mortgage payments on the second loan.

dont_getit says

andrei.soroker says

dont_getit says

zetabeos1 says

before the bubble ever started? I see comments on SFgate that your home was sold before the bubble in 1999 for $50K. You will never break even in your life time. Send the keys to the bank and call it quits.

BTW, your donations are technically source of income, which are taxable! Keep sinking yourself into the pit.

http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/NorCal.html

I agree, even though, I sincerely hope you get out of the mess smoothly, the chances are very slim. So, take a step back and realize the probability. I think you should probably walk away, when the system is dumb, take advantage of it, rather than fighting it as many people do.
Good luck! Hope everything works out for you.

I don’t know if people are fighting the system. What I see and read about is either people abusing the system (because the system is dumb) or giving up and leaving the system altogether. All I’m trying to do is repay what I borrowed and I’m pretty sure in the end I will succeed.

Lots of people have a very singular view of Oakland (angry black people running around in the run-down streets killing each other), but the truth is very different. Oakland is a very diverse city — it does have a lot of crime, yes, but it also has neighborhoods that will rival even the best areas of San Francisco (and the weather is better!).

The reason for Oakland’s crime shouldn’t just be ignored. I believe there are way to fix it, and the place to start is quadrupling teacher salaries and methodically introducing free after school and summer programs with art and technology classes in the worst neighborhoods. In seven years you will see some kids graduate from high school and go to college instead of prison.

I have nothing kind to say about the city government — Oakland is run worse than the USSR.

My house has 2000 square feet of livable space, a front and a back yard, and off-street parking for two cars. Half of the livable space needs to be finished — new floor, paint, and another bathroom, but it’s all very doable with some money. The house also has a new foundation built to code. It’s not a shack and it was a great find.

My house is 2 blocks away from the West Oakland BART station — this means a 10-minute commute to downtown SF, either by public transportation or car. I can’t even describe how cool and convenient this is. Today, you could buy a foreclosed house near me for under 100K. Go for it! Over the next year all those foreclosed properties will be bought and the market will change yet again. I’m not worried — all this is for the better. I’m glad the housing market burst. I’m sorry for all those who had to lose their homes, but that’s the way things go.

Neighborhoods transform. Usually for the better, in the Bay Area. For this to happen, it takes a few brave souls and an infinity of skeptics.

When my parents bought a house in the Temescal area of Oakland, it wasn’t called “Temescal”. We were scared out of our minds. Every week, a truck load of construction garbage (concrete, etc) was dumped in the middle of the street right in front of their house. People sold drugs across the street and prostitutes operated nearby, leaving condoms and other prostitution-related garbage, almost on a daily basis.

Then a few people bought homes near my parents and things started happening. Brush was cleared. Anti-dumping signs went up. Lights were installed. Speed bumps showed up. Drug dealers lost their house. Houses got painted. Restaurants opened. McArthur BART station got those funny neon lights in its underpass and — the neighborhood is now called Temescal.

West Oakland will get there too.

Oh, is this called “gentrification” and it’s a bad thing? I want to gentrificate everything, if it will reduce the amount of garbage that gets dumped in front of people’s homes.

Andrei, thanks for the post that explains your view. Please understand, I am not against your idea, in fact, I think its cool to do something like that instead of asking for bailout.
My point is this: You believed that the house was worth half a mil and bought into it, good for you, you got 80/20 and no down payment. All I am saying is, this is a system designed for people like you. Walk away. If you are expecting your house would appraise to half a mil in the next couple of years, you still havent stopped drinking that kool aid that made you buy this place. Granted that I dont know anything about Oakland, except the hearsays which are no good, but, I find it hard to believe that the place where houses are selling for 100K will appreciate to 500K in a matter of years, it might be decades before you see it. Instead of stressing out on the house, if I were you, I would have walked out, let the bank(and obviously us responsible taxpayers who are still renting) hold the bag. Take a hit on your credit, live with cash for 7 years, and then fix your credit, I bet you can buy your house back for probably half of what you paid.
Its very refreshing to see that you feel guilty for not paying debt, but, hey this is america, we dont pay our debts. So, enjoy it before the homestead rule is changed.

Thanks for your reply. The situation with 100K is a temporary phenomenon created by foreclosures. My neighborhood had an unbelievably high rate of those. Neighborhoods where homes cost about 700K in 2006 didn't see such a crazy drop in prices.

This makes sense: the more vulnerable the area, the faster and harder it falls during hard times.

The truth is I'm not devastated (upset, but not devastated) that my house probably won't cost 500K for decades to come. I like the house and I want to keep living there and make the neighborhood better.

I don't want you or anyone else (other than me) to be responsible for my debt -- in a country whose financial system evolved to always side on the debtor's side this is a revolutionary concept. But I don't believe in walking away from debts. So I'll continue working and improvising to pay off my mortgage. My busking website already made a small, but noticeable difference in the mortgage payments on the second loan.

Andre,
good for you! I like ideas. In fact, bravo!
Know that many snots log on everywhere and attack ideas or individual situations - offering little more than vitriol and a knee jerk. This snarkiness provides stimulation and relief for the afflicted, hopefully.

andrei.soroker says

@dont_getit — I replied to your comment and it’s been in moderation all day.
Let’s try it again:
Thanks for your reply. The situation with 100K is a temporary phenomenon created by foreclosures. My neighborhood had an unbelievably high rate of those. Neighborhoods where homes cost about 700K in 2006 didn’t see such a crazy drop in prices.
This makes sense: the more vulnerable the area, the faster and harder it falls during hard times.
The truth is I’m not devastated (upset, but not devastated) that my house probably won’t cost 500K for decades to come. I like the house and I want to keep living there and make the neighborhood better.
I don’t want you or anyone else (other than me) to be responsible for my debt — in a country whose financial system evolved to always side on the debtor’s side this is a revolutionary concept. But I don’t believe in walking away from debts. So I’ll continue working and improvising to pay off my mortgage. My busking website already made a small, but noticeable difference in the mortgage payments on the second loan.

If you really know what you are doing, its fine by all means. But do know that its not too late now to walk away. Things are going to get worse before it gets any better, unemployment effect will be seen till end of next year.You have 2 kids and one salary. I would really lose my sleep and save as much as I can in case if I lose job. You know your situation better, but, I am just saying although all these ideas are cool and all, bottomline is you never know when you would need money. So, save up and dont waste it on a house that would be worthless for a long time. As I said earlier, Good luck for whatever you do!

So, Andrei, how much have you made now?

In the 80's (I think), writer Dave Barry received a request from a kid who wanted to go to college. The kid asked him to write in his column that anyone who wanted to donate a dollar toward his education should do so, and the kid got a tidy sum. I remember thinking that was an inventive way to pay for college.

The Salt Lake County Fair is possibly on the chopping block. They say that over 50,000 people attend every year. It costs $80k to put on, the admission is free but parking is $5.00. So - why don't they give everyone the opportunity to donate a couple of bucks for next year? A dollar here, a dollar there...

Like they used to say on the Yucca Mountain Project, a million dollars here, a million dollars there, pretty soon you're talking real money...

@elliemae -- I made a few thousand (close to 3, it seems) dollars; and many more enemies : -)

@Some Guy -- how much is six figures? 103K? 950K?