patrick.net

Hell, Americans fly to India to get treatment under our current system!

I personally know a person how got surgery done in India - for little more than $15K. In USA it would have cost him more than $100K which was beyond his affordability.

touche

Patrick
this confrontation would have been much more lively with a YouTube video of you two shouting at each other :-)

Yes, I've descended to their level. :-( I'm a bit ashamed of the f-word, but otherwise at a loss for how to express just how stupid medical reform opponents are being. They seem perfectly willing to cut their own throats just to express their displeasure with:

1. Having lost the election.
2. Having lost the election to a black man.
3. Having lost the election to a black man who is ten times smarter than Bush.

Personally, I find it sad that the medical reform debate has descended to people shouting at each other, and both sides share equally in this sad display we see unfolding.

Lost in the shouting are legitimate questions regarding reform: What effect will it have on medical innovation, seeing as how the US currently carries the world's water in this area? Will we have enough doctors to service the increased demand? How will abuses (excessive emergency room visits, lifelong smoking, etc.) in the system be handled? Personally, I feel these important questions have not been answered, at least not to my satisfaction. Obama saying "it won't be a problem" just isn't good enough. Call me crazy, but I would prefer more evidence than a politician's campaign rhetoric.

At this time, I am admittedly an opponent of the current plan, but mainly because it seems like the Democrats seem more interested in a "victory" than an actual working plan. IMHO, ramming this bill through in a rush will result in yet another ill-conceived, problematic government agency. I would like to hear more from doctors and hospital administrators and less from politicians parroting talking points, and if the Democrats were serious about convincing reasonable people like myself, that is exactly who should have been doing most of the speaking at the town halls.

But I guess my thoughts on the matter make me just another bitter racist idiot....

Having lived under our US "For Profit" healthcare system, the US Governmental Healthcare system (US Army), and the Universal healthcare system in Japan, I believe a government option is a poor second choice to universal healthcare. The only time I had a problem with healthcare was a billing issue in the "For profit" system. Not only was I overcharged. I proved that I was overcharged. In addition, I took the disagreement to the CEO of the hospital and literally caught him in a lie (in writing). I testified before the CA Assembly regarding the entire incident. I maintain those all these letters just in case I ever have to dispute charges in the future.

Anyone who believes a for profit system is better than a universal healthcare system is sadly mistaken. Growing up, my father often distinguished between "book learning" and life experience. Often giving life experience more weight because it was practical. I have noticed many people who have talked with me about this issue lack the life experience of being in a universal healthcare system. So, they begin with no real experience. That leaves "book learning." I have noticed most of them do not actually read any books on the subject.

If it is not book learning or life experience that forms the basis of their opinion, then what is it? Unfortunately, the most likely source is the Boob Tube. My father had another saying when I was growing up: "Television rots your brain."

I feel like I woke up in 1950's during the 2nd Red Scare.
All of these crazy people screaming "socialism" and "Obama is destroying the constitution". Funny they weren't so afraid of Bush's warrantless wiretapping - but try and help them get a break on health insurance and all hell breaks loose.
I don't remember these bizarre tactics during the Clinton healthcare debate, not to say there weren't fierce opponents, but were they this cuckoo???

stillrentinginLA says

Funny they weren’t so afraid of Bush’s warrantless wiretapping - but try and help them get a break on health insurance and all hell breaks loose.

I remember in NPR radio one caller was saying "I am OK with govt wiretapping my phone, because it is helping govt to stop terrorists from bombing our malls. Otherwise my wife and children would be killed while shopping in malls."

Patrick,

Health care in the US is expensive, partly due to government regulations. I would rather continue paying high insurance premiums than turn the medical care of my wife and children over to the government. I will not sell out my freedoms and my farmily's for lower heath care costs.

Chris, if you get sick without insurance, you're dead. Certainly financially, and maybe literally.

1. It wasn't a very slim margin in most parts of the country, or even a slim margin. In Global polls, Obama won by a landslide.

2. Technically, he's bi-racial, but he's generally regarded and embraced as a black man. He doesn't downplay his white mother at all. In fact, she is central in his argument for health care reform, as he watched her go bankrupt before losing her battle with ovarian cancer.

3. All politicians read from prepared statements.

Perhaps some of those opposed to this do not believe that this is the roll of the federal government. Let us assume they can do it better and cheaper, does that make it the roll of the government? At what price do we sell our freedom?

Do I end this with a "FUCK YOU!" or "I am sorry your parents died?"

You do not go through life without losing ones you love, but for some of us the idea of living a life that is not free is a Zombie life. We are losing more and more freedom everyday.

Thank you for our time (Insert whatever boorish remark you desire.)

At what price do we sell our freedom?

Please define what freedom means to you within the context of this discussion.

Patrick Thanks for sanity in the forum world. Being without health, I am aware if I get sick, I am dead. I also realize if I paid into the system as an individual and got sick, same thing since they would drop me for not being able to pay because if I was sick, I could not work. Although lately I am reading they just drop you if you are not with an employer anyway.

I have wanted this for a long time but I want the non-corporate profiteering version. I want socialization of things. I like our Parks, roads, libraries, national parks, highways, firefighters, policemen, and other shared resources paid for by our socialist system.

Deregulation killed a lot of social networks. Cable companies charge outrageous amounts for the services we need.

I am sorry about your parents. I know your mom had passed but did not realize your dad too.
It is incredible in this country that people go bankrupt over medical care or die because the system is unwilling to treat them because they have no money.

Patrick, I've been following your blog for a very long time and appreciate that you've probably saved me $500K by convincing me not to buy a house 3 years ago.

I would also like to express my condolences for your loss. I'm sure that it's not easy to lose both parents in one year.

However, I am a bit puzzled about your comment that they were "bankrupted by the current system" when they had medicare. If they had Medicare, was it that it did not cover their medications because they did not have part D?

Although I believe that the current system is flawed, Medicare has major problems as well and if it replaced the current system as is without any reforms, it would be a total disaster. In fact, even Obama admitted that although he believes in a single payer system in principle, it would not work in the US under the current conditions, or at least it would cause major problems. I agree with this as well.

As a physician, I deal with many absurd rules in Medicare. For instance, I have a patient with severe asthma who has part D. Medicare will pay for a nebulizer, but her part D won't pay for any of the nebulizer medications. Medicare will pay for allergy injections, but won't pay for the serum(if it's made by an outside serum company which most allergy clinics now use). Medicare will not cover some bundled laboratory studies even though there are many conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease, hyperlipidemia, and hypothyroidism that require these bundled tests, so often patients end up having to get two separate blood tests on different days.

I'm not saying that private insurance companies are that much better, but often, if the insurance company denies a procedure that is necessary, I can provide a letter of necessity or submit supporting literature and it will be approved. You can't really do that with Medicare and any changes require years to implement.

As a provider, I've spent time maneuvering through our medical system of denials, appeals, limitations, prior authorizations, and dealing with insurance companies who make huge amounts of money on the suffering of others. Non-profits are no better, they all operate the same. As a patient with a serious medical condition, it's no better from this angle. My out-of-pocket expenses are amazing, my intent is questioned and my body hurts and doesn't work right.

Simply stated, as a provider the system sucks. As a patient, the system blows - thereby proving that it is possible to suck & blow at the same time.

Chrisborden, you should have a complete Physical asap. There are so many people with serious illnesses that have silent symptoms - by the time you feel pain or discomfort it may be too late to treat.

Constitutionalist says

So then by the logic of the Pro-Government Health Care crowd, America also owes me Car Insurance.
1. If my car is totaled, I cannot get to work
2. If I cannot get to work I will be fired
3. If I am fired, I will lose my health insurance
4. Without health insurance, I will die.
Therefore, if I am not given FREE Car Insurance .. I may DIE!
Health Insurance IS available, people. You just have to friggin PAY FOR IT!
Good Lord. When did this country get so ****ing LAZY?

Take the fucking bus and get over yourself.

DT says:
"However, I am a bit puzzled about your comment that they were “bankrupted by the current system” when they had medicare. If they had Medicare, was it that it did not cover their medications because they did not have part D?"

Medicare has co-pays; if one lacks supplemental insurance the copays can be astronomical. For hospitalization there are limitations, for rehab the copay is $133.50 per day for days 21-100. Under Part D - designed by "for-profit" drug companies, the co-pays & deductibles are such that many people still can't afford their meds. Especially in the "donut hole" where they'll have to pay thousands out of pocket before their meds are covered. Sure, labs are screwed up as you described and need to be fixed - but people are bankrupted by healthcare expenses and don't qualify for Medicaid until there is no money left.