patrick.net

elliemae says

2ndClassCitizen says

I know trashing my posts is one of your pet projects but please lets be reasonable.

Don’t flatter yourself. I don’t trash your posts - I respond. I’ve noticed that when people disagree with your point of view, you take it personally. Please note that I respond to many posts, and you’re not special.
2ndClassCitizen says

You don’t have to agree but please if you are going to present a counter argument at least talk about how great it is to have government control over marriage and what benefits there could be to such an arrangement. Then we might even be able to have an intelligent discussion.

An intelligent discussion would involve people who discuss their points of view without being told what it is. I’m fully able to formulate my own thoughts and, while I appreciate your attempt to mold my opinions, I respectfully assert that I will continue to think for myself.
2ndClassCitizen says

Of course what happens in other parts of the world is pertinent to the argument that state control of marriage (and just about everything for that matter) has gone too far in this part of the world and elsewhere.

The Campaign for Liberty’s mission statement is “Our mission is to promote and defend the great American principles of individual liberty, constitutional government, sound money, free markets, and a noninterventionist foreign policy, by means of educational and political activity.”
The Campaign for Liberty is an American thing. So - no, I don’t believe that discussing what occurs in other parts of the world is pertinent to your argument - although I’m usually unsure as to what your argument is. You’re all over the place.
The concept of Marriage is a legal distinction. If two people want to move in together, they can - without anyone telling them that they aren’t able to do so. They are able to declare their love for each other in committment ceremonies if they wish. However, if they wish to be “married” in order to take advantage of the opportunities afforded by law, such as becoming the legal next-of-kin for decision-making, tax breaks, insurance opportunities, etc, they have to follow the laws of the state in which they reside.

Thanks Ellie I now have much greater appreciation for you.

I suppose since this is a housing forum we shouldn't be talking about this any way. It is not only not an exclusively American thing it is not a housing thing. Besides what happens in Europe could NEVER happen here.

Once again you have failed to address the reasons why you think state control of marriage is good and banning it would be bad. Instead you are skirting the issue, talking nonsense about an organization that I don't represent, and claiming "I'm all over the place" without actually giving any evidence. I believe this is because you have no argument but really just like to argue.

I didn't say that state control of the definition of marriage is good. I just don't see it changing any time soon.

You're the one who brought up the campaign for liberty in your op.

You're all over the place. I don't need to supply evidence to that - you accomplish that on your own without assistance. LoL

2ndClassCitizen says

I believe this is because you have no argument but really just like to argue.

I'm sure that this applies to everyone who disagrees with you.

2ndClassCitizen says

I suppose since this is a housing forum we shouldn’t be talking about this any way.

The title at the top of this page is "Miscellaneous Forum."

Yawn.

----------------------------------------- Tenouncetrout says

They probably benefit society in 10% of 1% of their cases.

Probably less than that...

On another note:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225878/Couple-flee-save-baby-social-workers-girl-17-told-clever-look-child.html

from the article:
"A heavily pregnant woman and her fiance have gone on the run after social workers threatened to take away their baby at birth.
"Kerry Robertson, 17, and Mark McDougall, 25, had been told that she was not bright enough to raise their child and that they would have to give him up.
"It was another blow for the couple, whose wedding this year was halted just 48 hours before the ceremony in a row over whether Miss Robertson was intelligent enough to marry.
"Mr McDougall, an artist, said they had made their decision after seeing minutes of a meeting this week where social workers claimed their baby could suffer 'emotional harm' if left with Miss Robertson - an allegation they say is 'ridiculous'.
"He said: 'It was clear to Kerry and I that although social workers recently appeared to backtrack, telling us they would not make any decision about our baby until he is born, the truth is they intend to take him away. Kerry was in pieces.
"A family law expert said: 'If Miss Robertson gave birth in Fife and then fled with the baby, after the local authority had got a care order, she would be liable for child abduction.
"'But by fleeing while pregnant, Miss Robertson has not broken any law, as far as I'm aware.
'If she has her baby outside the jurisdiction of Fife council, they no longer have any power to take the child into care.
"'Rather, they would have to locate her and alert the relevant council who would have to apply for a removal order themselves.' "
-----------------
It's horrendous that this young couple have to leave their support system in order to keep their child. I hope that doesn't have to continue - but I also hope that, where ever they go, they find a place more welcoming than Fife.

This situation makes no sense. If the mother isn't able to care for the child in the eyes of some social workers, why can't they provide parenting classes and monitor her progress? If the woman lacks the capacity to marry, why hasn't she been assigned a guardian who can help her make decisions (normally a parent or, in this case, grandparent).

2ndClassCitizen says

I suppose since this is a housing forum we shouldn’t be talking about this any way.

Elliemae says "The title at the top of this page is “Miscellaneous Forum.”

Yawn."

ellie,
Pardon my leap of logic, but I was responding to your leap of logic in that if Campaign for Liberty is an American organization then talking about what happens in Europe is irrelevant.

By the way I really do want to be your friend. We have more in common than not. A yawn may be cute when your cat does it, but when you type it, it just comes off as smug and belittling.

Thanks for the update on the couple on the lam in Fife. It sure is a sad situation. Government Gone Wild.

Let me bring some humor to this situation and give you both a few fashion tips.

1. Get dressed then get drunk
2. Turn on the lights then get dressed