patrick.net

1 in 5 Californians is Evangelical. That means more Evangelicals in California than the entire population of Alabama and Mississippi combined.
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/california/

Oh, and Lefties - about a third of the Evangelicals in California are Hispanic. Evangelicalism is the fastest growing religion in South and Central America by far.

As for people voting with their feet:

https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265
The people coming to California are the very well off (particularly from New York) who can isolate themselves from the unwashed; the desperate unwashed from abroad ready to sign for benefits; the middle and working classes are abandoning ship.

Interestingly, the people coming to California are mostly from other high tax, high and unsustainable debt states: NY, IL, NJ.

I know. It really speaks volume as to how little Hillary was liked outside of rootless urbanites.

steverbeaver says

I know. It really speaks volume as to how little Hillary was liked outside of rootless urbanites.

Oh man, spot on! ROFL

California is fucking crowded and has smoke in the air two to three months of the year, now.

7. Diverse landscape. Beach, mountains, desert, forest, lakes, streams, ocean, all in one day.

You must have a time machine back to the 1950's.

2. Lane splitting. I ride a motorcycle and California is the only state that values freedom enough to make lane spitting expressly legal. I never wait in traffic and never have a problem parking :)

I always wonder when I am going to witness somebody getting doored and becoming a bloody smudge on the tarmac.

9. Socially liberal. I need to worry about some barking crazy tax hungry LibbyFuck delusionary telling me what I can or can't do.

There, fixed it for you.

10. Prop 13. My property tax for my 3/2 house is was $2200 last year and will remain predictably affordable.

This would be nice if the real estate weren't also multiples of the American average around the population centers where you can actually live without being mugged. So, you bought a 3/2 home for less than 180K that allows you to run down unemcumbered to the surf before work several days a week? That means you bought it sometime in the 60's or early 70's? What are you, 80 years old? Either that, or you inherited a house from somebody 80 years old that kept the prop.13 advantage, which I would dare say is not the typical Cali experience.

6. Weather. Duh.

Did I mention that smoke? Weather can be nice in stretches, and there is no snow in the flats, but it is not 70 and sunny every day except in San Diego by the beach. The Central Valley is like Ohio without the snow, really hot and humid in the summer 24/24. Benefits of Cali weather are exagerrated, and the offsets if you are a worker bee are legion. Californias crow on and on about the weather EVEN when they are choking on smoke. It is like a mantra "Well, so many things are fucked here, REMEMBER THE WEATHER. Yeah, that's the ticket, it's the WEATHER!"

1. Surf. Good waves from the cold empty NorCal rivermouth breaks to the SoCal reefs and points. I can and do surf most days either before or after work.

It's been surprisingly flat for almost a year and a half, or stormy and tossy around Santa Cruz. They actually had better surf on the East Coast last year. California surfers are known for being territorial, aggro and violent. Most surf spots accessible to population centers are chronically crowded and full of the latter. Unless you have one of those multimillion dollar manses on the beach, you are going to have the same crappy, crowded commutes to surfing spots that you have to everything else. A guy I know who moved to North Carolina had a house in Huntington Beach on the water, where he just had to walk over and plop his board in to paddle board to the break. He said four months of the year he couldn't find parking anywhere except his own driveway, and often had people block the driveway of his house with their cars. I know a guy who retired in south Orange County. He says it takes three and a half hours to drive to visit his son in Studio City.

3. Plenty of jobs! Just don’t expect to keep much of your income.

Wait until the next recession. I hope you're happy being a gardener with your Latin American friends. Also, any really good job, you have to be vastly overqualified, just because, everybody has to try Cali on for size.

Did I mention that California is fucking crowded? Everything that used to be good, free and spacious is now regulated, something you have to reserve far in advance, something whose cost takes your breath away, or something you have to compete for on a daily basis. Get your elbows ready. California has some of the most densely populated places in USA now. It has actually taken me 45 minutes just to drive around a block in Cupertino where I went to high school as a kid.

Plus, California is full of whackos and alienated assholes and narcissists. Finding loyal friends is nearly impossible. If you find people you like, they usually move away somewhere else. People move around for no other reason that I can tell except they are chronically disgruntled and think somewhere else will be better.

Maybe some of the stuff you mentioned existed almost through the 70's or so. Since then, it's been downhill. If you are going to make a list, at least keep it real instead of recycling tourist brochures from the 60's.

Patrick says

steverbeaver says

I know. It really speaks volume as to how little Hillary was liked outside of rootless urbanites.

Oh man, spot on! ROFL

She was so crooked says the orangemangood cult except all his charges proved over time to be gaslighting her.

Still the cult doesn’t care and glorifies his daily disasters.

1.Your average real Mexican food isn't very healthy. Lots of carbs and lard. Tasty, of course. And there is Mexican food everywhere in the USA.

2. Lots of poor, uneducated Spanish Indians that residents are forced to pay for.

3. Related to 2 - shitty public schools.

4. Yes, beautiful, diverse scenery from beaches to mountains, and micro-climates, if you can swing it. But plenty of shit hole areas too, that aren't very scenic. Related to 2.

5. Underfunded state employees pension fund with joke management that all residents are responsible for.

6. Racist policies that are anti-meritocracy. OK if you are a Spanish Indian, tho.

7. Asian babes be everywhere.

Recommendation - visit as a tourist. You can vote, too, if you want, in local elections.

Kakistocracy says

Don't. That is the goal.

I want far more diversity if thought in the discussions. I would like to see the best case for contradictory opinions.

Unfortunately the left today has echo-chambered thenselves into thinking their argument is de-facto made for them via the press. Trump is apparently a liar, tyrant, etc... and this much is so obvious to the left that the base criticisms for which all other arguments are launched have never been supported or properly argued.

https://quillette.com/2018/03/10/psychology-progressive-hostility/

Reducing the right to "racist" fosters an ignorant echo chamber in the left, which is not found in the right.

If California is so great, why do so many people want to leave it?

I'm guessing that the beaches are nice if you don't want to go into the water. Too fucking cold. Even the northeast has warmer ocean water.

Quigley says

Just try wearing a MAGA hat to work at the local college and tell me who is liberal?

Try most of NorCal going north, northeast of the S.F. Bay Area - never know you were in California at least politically and a few other ways.

Booger says

If California is so great, why do so many people want to leave it?

Kind of got burned out paying for privilege and the experience of living there after 20 years and the California that I first experienced 20 some years ago is gone and never ever coming back. The change has not been for the better.

Booger says

I'm guessing that the beaches are nice if you don't want to go into the water.

Going into the ocean water in NorCal is not for the faint of heart unless you are into numbing pain from cold temperatures

CBOEtrader says

I want far more diversity if thought in the discussions. I would like to see the best case for contradictory opinions.

Unfortunately the left today has echo-chambered thenselves into thinking their argument is de-facto made for them via the press. Trump is apparently a liar, tyrant, etc... and this much is so obvious to the left that the base criticisms for which all other arguments are launched have never been supported or properly argued.

That would be nice if it happened - unfortunately that is not the case and not every thread has to be about politics and or Trump but that also seems to be the de-facto case on the forum.

Only to be outdone by the enticing someone to look for supporting data to back up there position which will immediately get attacked as a nothing burger etc. while escalating the attacks on the position and now going after the person themselves.

When all else fails and attacking the position or person isn't working - make the thread political and turn it into one more political shit storm totally devoid of what ever the original topic was about.

CBOEtrader says

Reducing the right to "racist" fosters an ignorant echo chamber in the left, which is not found in the right.

Reducing the left to Commies, SJWs, Liars, Libbies, Libruls, Losers, Snowflakes, Socialists, etc. - those type of comments from the regulars on the forum in the echo chamber of the right ?

That's the type of shit Potus engages in on twitter.

Does anyone from the base find it curious that any time Trump is criticized for something, his immediate response is not to answer the criticism, but instead to start calling the critic names. It's like he never left the school yard.

Almost as if Potus was following along with some of the threads here....

Tarantula says

Nice. None of the bizzaro right-wingers ride? Not surprising, as they are too afraid and hate FREEDOM!

Stupid to say people don't ride because of politics. Their are a lot of things people don't do when they are responsible for others especially kids. Almost every long term rider I know has had a serous accident, including my father that was tboned by red light runner. Even when I ride a bicycle I have to watchout for crazy drivers here even in the bike lane.

2004 ZG 1000 Kawi Concours. Has the Ninja engine. Old mans crotch rocket. Bought it new. It just turned 50k.


This is my 9th motorcycle. When I was young and dumber I rode my KZ 1000 to Florida and back to California. I averaged 500 miles a day, got two speeding tickets and a really sore butt.

Tim Aurora says

CBOEtrader says

Unfortunately the left today has echo-chambered thenselves into thinking their argument is de-facto made for them via the press. Trump is apparently a liar, tyrant, etc

It is very hard to have a discussion if people have different facts. Opinions and even spin can be argued against. Facts ( wrong ones) and conspiracy theories , I do not have time to discuss them.

That's fair. I also havent seen you try to make the point that Trump is behaving [racist, sexist, liar, anti-gay...] enter your generic ism.

If you do, you should make the case w facts.

Unfortunately too many leftists just resort to the predominant MSM opinions as too obvious to challenge, AKA the washpo Trump lie list. Smfh.

Kakistocracy says

Reducing the left to Commies, SJWs, Liars, Libbies, Libruls, Losers, Snowflakes, Socialists, etc. - those type of comments from the regulars on the forum in the echo chamber of the right ?

Did you read the article? The right may label the same as the left. That's called communicating as a human.

However people on the right are forced to hear and understand the left's arguments. The left doesnt even try to understanding the right. This is due to the default propaganda setting in high school/college/MSM/Hollywood being leftist.

" conservatives see an unfortunate world of moral trade-offs in which every moral judgment comes with costs that must be properly balanced. Progressives, on the other hand, seem to be blind to, or in denial about, these trade-offs, whether economic and social; theirs is a utopian or unconstrained vision, in which every moral grievance must be immediately extinguished until we have perfected society. This is why conservatives don’t tend to express the same emotional hostility as the Left; a deeper grasp of the world’s complexity has the effect of encouraging intellectual humility. The conservative hears the progressive’s latest demands and says, “I can see how you might come to that conclusion, but I think you’ve overlooked the following…” In contrast, the progressive hears the conservative and thinks, “I have no idea why you would believe that. You’re probably a racist"

Tarantula says

Nice. None of the bizzaro right-wingers ride? Not surprising, as they are too afraid and hate FREEDOM!

Wow, when did riding motorcycles become a political event where people hate freedom?



Oh wait, how many Liberals do you think were riding in that group?

Kakistocracy says

That would be nice if it happened - unfortunately that is not the case and not every thread has to be about politics and or Trump but that also seems to be the de-facto case on the forum.

If your posts aren't negative about Trump or #OrangeManBad, then they are normally anti-American. America Bad, America Evil, Capitalism Evil.... the pattern is clear.

Kakistocracy says

CBOEtrader says

Reducing the right to "racist" fosters an ignorant echo chamber in the left, which is not found in the right.

Reducing the left to Commies, SJWs, Liars, Libbies, Libruls, Losers, Snowflakes, Socialists, etc. - those type of comments from the regulars on the forum in the echo chamber of the right ?

Have you been paying attention to the left echo chamber comments by the regular radical Left wing posters here? Doesn't look like it. They are definitely a lot worse.

Even worse, those same left wing posters hide behind ignore so they don't have to engage other posters. That the clinical definition of Living in a Echo Chamber.

Tarantula says

If you support Trump you are NOT a conservative.

What if you don't support Trump, what are you?

Tim Aurora says

+1

Why do you deny science?

I had a couple bikes in my youth. One was enduro another was a yamaha 400 I had in college. Never owned a bigger bike.

The times I have rented one, or borrowed my brother's for a short ride, I'm reminded of who I was back then. That is on the feeling level. I really should get a bike again before I'm too old. One of the reasons I don't is because of people I know that have been in bad bike crashes, and also some scary dreams that made me quit way back when. But being in California is a great place for it.

Tim Aurora says

. If you want I can leave this forum.

We may not agree on much, but I don’t find your posts aggravating or dishonest. Often they are enlightening at least for the opposite perspective. I don’t think you should leave.

Kakistocracy says

Almost as if Potus was following along with some of the threads here....

I doubt Trump reads Patnet, but I’m fairly convinced that at least one of his advisors does. Too often we’ve proposed a spin or an idea on here and he’s tweeted the same thing the following day or week.
Ideas get around.

CBOEtrader says

However people on the right are forced to hear and understand the left's arguments. The left doesnt even try to understanding the right. This is due to the default propaganda setting in high school/college/MSM/Hollywood being leftist.

Yes. I find it amusing that Left wing conservatives can’t even comprehend the POV of right wing or even classical liberals. It’s a true failure in both education and imagination. That’s why studies show right wing voters to be more informed than left wing voters.

What I miss about California:

1. Surf
2. Hiking

That's pretty much it.

Why I'm glad I left California:

1. My business costs (I run 4 businesses) plummeted and opportunities skyrocketed once leaving. I see more average people in ATL starting successful businesses that I ever did in CA
2. Average people outside of CA can afford a decent quality of life, where as in CA, everyone was scraping by or complaining about housing/cost of living, job hopping
3. Homeless people shitting and shooting up in public.
4. Homeless people building tent cities everywhere
5. Reasonable political conversations can be had in the workplace in other states - whether you are left/right or center. You can usually find something to agree on
6. I can technically and comfortably retire at 36, I'm mortgage/debt free and am about to dabble in flips/rentals with my spare change
7. Lack of common sense gov't - ex: Pelosi is trying to normalize extremists like Ilhan Omar
8. Lack of common sense gun laws.
9. Lack of open minded-ness. Granted, people in CA will tell you there are open minded if you are into their PC bullshit, whatever cause - but the minute you express an alternate view, you're a bigot, racists, xenophobic etc...
10. Gas is a lot cheaper elsewhere
11. In California, my kids weren't allowed to play "tag" in school - they had to play "shadow tag" which they both said was boring
12. Kids sports in California, they award participation trophies for losing teams. Other states, WINNING is encouraged (winning is more fun btw)
13. Due to everyone leaving CA, property values in other metro's like Austin, Atlanta etc are climbing. I'm up almost $80-100k in the last 2-3 years. Pretty sure California has topped out.
14. Where I live, it's ok to call a man a dude, and a woman a dudette. Not by some obscur pronouns that actually misclassify the gender a person WANTS to be.

Not a California hater at all. I miss the natural beauty and state parks. But the political climate it toxic and lack of common sense leaves a lot to be desired.

Tarantula says

Are you actually trying to convince me that California is a Christian conservative state? My, aren't you precious!

It is. I had the "privilege" to attend a service at evangelical megachurch in the San Joaquin Valley for my partner's nephew's non-baptism. These folks are fundamentalist enough that they reject infant baptism because Jesus was not an infant at his baptism.

By coincidence it was on the Sunday before the Proposition 8 referendum. Almost everyone in attendance, including my inlaws, was wearing a Yes on 8 button. My partner and I stood out by not wearing those. Folks offered to give us one.

The attendees reflected the diversity of our state (with the obvious exception of tolerance for same sex partnerships): Latino, Asian, black, white in roughly equal proportion to the overall population. Maybe an outsized representation of blacks being has how we were away from the Gentrified Coast. There were two guest speakers at the service that Sunday: the mom and dad Duggar from a reality TV show about their family and huge number of kids.

I had known about this Evangelical Community ever since I became partner with someone who is related to some of them. (You should know, none of these folks are white). Even though I knew about it, was still a culture shock to attend the Mega Church service.

Many large, young families of all colors there, united in their intolerance. Just over the Altamont Pass from Cool and Hip Artsy Fartsy Smug Bay Area, it felt like I was light years away.

California is many things. It is also an Evangelical Conservative State..... outnumbered by a Left Coast Liberal State.

Overwhelming number of homeless

Overwhelming number of diseases

Shit on sidewalks

High taxes

Huge unemployment

Affordability crisis

Fag and lesbian hoods

Laws that punish you for being republicanor Christian

Mexican cartels

Schools promote transgenderism to kids.

Feminists and fag parades.

Yeah fucking paradise........ not!

Tarantula is right about one thing: a condition of stark raving hallucinatory denial helps a lot in California.

B.A.C.A.H. says

The attendees reflected the diversity of our state (with the obvious exception of tolerance for same sex partnerships): Latino, Asian, black, white in roughly equal proportion to the overall population.

This is why the Left misses sooo badly when they talk about conservatives and Trump supporters being a bunch of racists. We aren’t, in fact we are much more integrated and comfortable with other races than white Leftists will ever be.
Every time a Leftist brays nonsense like this, people laugh and tune them out.

Ceffer says

Plus, California is full of whackos and alienated assholes and narcissists.

And full of Realtors ®.
No doubt, Tarantula is either a ®ealtor, or is a close relation to one.

Oh and about the homo thing. Evangelicals in California have evolved a little since 2008. Homosexuals and transgenders are welcome at any of those churches, and nobody will disrespect you, although most still consider the lifestyle a sin, although we are all sinners so what’s the difference? That’s the general feeling nowadays. They still don’t like in-your-face homosexuality preferring that sex of any sort remain something private. And they definitely don’t appreciate attempts to “educate” children about the homosexual lifestyle or glorify it in any way. To us, it’s an unfortunate condition, and not something to wish on our children.

Tarantula says

Nobody wants leave California. Some people have to leave because they are too lazy or not smart enough to make it here. California is a entrepreneurial hotspot with TONS of startups and lots of smart people making lots of money.

You're out of your mind and blind man. I have several multi-millionaire families who've already evacuated. I'm earlier in my career but a millionaire so far who will do the same. I've seen the changes since the 70s and things are going down hill faster and faster every year over the entire fucking state.

Furthermore, the platform tech is now built on was started under conservatives. I had a lot of family wrapped up in that back in the day in SV before my time. I'm sure there were man bites dog cases but it wasn't the hippies that built that.

This will not end well.

Tarantula says

I'm tickled that you are thinking about me! Tarantula is a scientist and entrepreneur.

hahahah

This scientist/native Bay Arean would expect no less of a smug narcissistic response from Cool Aid drinking Hipster. Or ®ealtor.

®ealtor? Okay, makes sense now. haha

Tarantula says

Trump LOST the popular vote by a substantial margin

Useless data point since the game wasn't played by "popular vote" rules.

just_dregalicious says

I have several multi-millionaire families who've already evacuated.

For the record they came from Iowa farming and military stock. Large Irish family in Norcal with kids who did the jobs leftists say American's can't or won't do: Picking strawberries, plumbs, peaches and working in the peach cannery near Sacramento in their late teens. Alongside what in the 60s were legal migrant workers. Migrant workers who even then spent most of the year on the state dole because only certain times of the year is harvesting/canning required.

Gave them a good work ethic and thus they excelled in education and tech (life in general) in the 70s-90s.