patrick.net

You had me at "rats."

vs.

One thing about liberals is... they alone of all folks are not racist... they simply hate everyone who does not agree with them.

Liberals are enthusiatic supporters of the Ground Zero mosque, and yet hate the preacher who wants to burn the qu'ran... and that's a paradox... one is based on freedom of religion regardless of the insensitivity and questionable nature of whether muslimism qualifies as a religion (it's really a political party, just like National Socialism... the nazis for our liberal friends who know nothing of history... oh and Ground Zero was where muslims killed 3,000 American in case you folks forgot)... and they oppose the burning because it represents freedom of speech.

A queer bunch... let's send them to Saudi Arabia with a case of bibles so they can figure out what side they are on.

Other than it being against the law?

Ever see someone burn alive? Could you imagine it being your Dad, Mom, Wife, Children, Yourself? It's not a very fast death, and if you live, its, not fun. You can say you don't care, but we all know the truth, when your ass is on fire, you would be praying to god to die

Its pretty hard to burn down new construction. Fiberglass insulation isn't flammable, nor is gypsum, granite, or ceramic tile.

Not to mention the mandatory sprinkler systems on larger houses.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

The style I am most familiar with is 4-8 gallons of kerosene poured down the main stairway. Usually takes the roof off.

Are you a firefighter by any chance? They always know the best way to burn down a house.

Yep, he's sitting in jail right now. A conservative christian politician who got nailed on bribery charges. That's unusual. Don't they usually go for adultery, pedophilia and that kind of thing?

FOB ---> Fan of Bob

anab01, great to have you with us!

This forum is a place where we argue whether liberals or conservatives are the biggest poopyheads!

Hope you can join us!

Well Liberals have to be the biggest poopyheards. I've seen them libs eat organic unbaptized babies for lunch in the Berkeley Bowl parking lot. They want that damn mosque built on the rubble of America's most holy ground at Ground Zero. I hear that all of them are secret Muslims just like their leader Barrack Obama. Heck, I'll bet that many of them weren't born in this country like Hussein Obama.

lol .. how did a bot get past Sir Pat?

Interesting that there is a MASSIVE FIRE in San Bruno Right Now as i type. A entire neighborhood. People I love and know live right in that area.......................... I makes more sense to rent out the foreclosed homes for cash cheap, until the bank catches on. I hope your not located near San Bruno , CA

APOCALYPSEFUCK

I am turning this forum to the FBI......

I sense that someone might be banned soon.

Liberals are destroying our once great nation with their anti-American agenda. They want to raise taxes, increase welfare, weaken our defenses, and leave our borders open. Liberals want the terrorists to win and are now supporting a Islamist mosque on the hallowed grounds of the Word Trade Center. Liberals are crusading to promote abortion and the gay agenda, while destroying traditional marriage and family values.

Forgetting for a minute the unethical criminal aspect of it, I don't think it's even logical. The insurance proceeds would go to the bank. There is no benefit over walking away, because the "owner" would still owe the mortgagor the amount underwater. And their credit would still be destroyed if they didn't pay it.

So unless you think banks are going to start resorting to this, I don't see it happening.

The mortgagor doesn't panic sell. If it get's down to the net present value of the rental income stream then worst case for them, they rent it out.

simchaland says

I sense that someone might be banned soon.

Yes, agree. When can we get a "flag as impolite" at the THREAD level.

I'm certainly no expert on 1970s arson, or any arson for that sake, but was that particular wave of big-city arson by commercial landlords that could sell the land for more than they could rent out the slum buildings? I don't think the situation is the same at all.

Nomograph says

Luckily this website is monitered by the FBI, so they already have your IP address.

I never got any request for user data from the FBI, or any other agency. But I suppose the web hosting company could monitor the patrick.net web server without my knowledge, making my wishes irrelevant.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

We must be prepared for the wholesale burning of large swaths of underwater properties.

I think this guy is from a parallel universe where McCain won the 2008 election. Definitely not a happy camper.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

No but that knowledge comes from inspecting the aftermath and practical theory about things like burn rates of different kinds of wood.

So, did you get some major wood when the fire in San Bruno started?

cevansnh says

liberals simply hate everyone who does not agree with them...A queer bunch…

We're here, we're queer, and we're proud...

Building a peaceful meeting center/mosque in an empty Burlington Coat Factory a couple of blocks away from GZ, when there are many other churches within spitting distances, is no comparison to the guy who wants to burn the qu’ran. His is a hateful act, comparable to burning bibles or books of mormon in SLC temple square.

But he has the right to do it. If he wants to offend millions of people, he'll have to suffer the consequences. I don't think he really wanted to do it - he just wanted his 15 minutes before he died of cardiac arrest from the bottled up hatred he carries inside.

It might have been easier to just post his hateful message on pat.net, that seems to work for some people.

We're giving him free room & board, tho. And when he's out of prison, he won't need much money due to his being 78 years old at that point.

zzyzzx says

Liberals are destroying our once great nation with their anti-American agenda. They want to raise taxes, increase welfare, weaken our defenses, and leave our borders open. Liberals want the terrorists to win and are now supporting a Islamist mosque on the hallowed grounds of the Word Trade Center. Liberals are crusading to promote abortion and the gay agenda, while destroying traditional marriage and family values.

I'm a little disappointed. I thought the readers of Pat.net could recognize and understand a strawman argument. Hopefully zz was joking.

It's both. He or she agrees, but must know that it's not what Nomo believes, so he is sort of joking. And obviously he or she has no idea what a bs strawman position is, or at least doesn't recognize it in this case.

But it's not surprising. That was partly Nomo's point right? That there are people that not only say this kind of thing, but they actually believe it.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Kevin,
The style I am most familiar with is 4-8 gallons of kerosene poured down the main stairway. Usually takes the roof off. This was the approach by the guys trying to help people out of the early 1970s downturn in one eastern city with which I am familiar...

yes any moron can burn a house to the ground, but it takes someone to know what they are doing to pull it off without an arson investigator picking up on it. The old kerosene poured down the main stairway" trick is the quickest way to get some nice prison time and a denied claim from the insurance company. Now all your left with is a smoking hole in the ground and a couple years in prison.

marcus says

... The insurance proceeds would go to the bank. There is no benefit over walking away, because the “owner” would still owe the mortgagor the amount underwater. And their credit would still be destroyed if they didn’t pay it.
So unless you think banks are going to start resorting to this, I don’t see it happening.

Actually most houses that are properly insured are insured for the replacement cost of the house. So if it's cost more to rebuild the house than it's currently worth on the market, then it's reasonable to expect the insurance company is going to pay more that the current market value of the house. Also part of the insurance premium is for the replacement cost of items inside. For my own house the contents are covered for over 50% of the house coverage. Furniture, clothing, Mom's china, etc are expensive to replace. And if the fire does it job well enough, one pile of burnt furniture or plastic is pretty much like any other pile. So if the high end furniture, designer clothing, and flat screen TV is removed and in it's place you put trash picked furniture, broken TV, good will clothing, etc, after a good fire it's not going to identifiable as such.

So lets look at the figures, House cost 600k (and mortgage note is 600k), contents are insured for 250k, house is now worth 300k on the open market, cost to build another house same size 400k, house burns down, insurance pays off 400k, and 250k for contents, homeowner uses 600k to pay off mortgage note, makes 50K, has his good credit intact, has an empty lot he can sell and has apartment with all his valuables he removed from the house before it burned to the ground. Sounds pretty good to me.

It's important to note that not to strip the house then burn it down, missing furniture, electronics and clothing are not going to leave the same burned debris as stuff that's actually there to get burned.

Wrong.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_6896443_replacement-cost-fire-insurance-policy.html

I never got any request for user data from the FBI, or any other agency. But I suppose the web hosting company could monitor the patrick.net web server without my knowledge, making my wishes irrelevant.

You're right about that, Patrick. The Affiant (officer) writes a search warrant and affidavit, it gets approved by the court and is then served. Most of the time it is for the server and company that has control and custody of the server. Same with phone records.... the warrant is written to include the records from Verizon, ATT or whatever carrier handles the account.

Unless they were looking for something on your personal computer no one would show up knocking on your door. The warrant and affidavit usually lists such things, as IP addresses, billing addresses, payments recieved, service address, all stored electronic communications, email, images, buddy lists, blah, blah, blah as well as old standby and catch-all "and any other files" and "any other information on file."

Nomograph says

I never got any request for user data from the FBI, or any other agency.

You will never receive any such request. Haven’t you heard of ‘warrantless wiretapping’? They get the user data upstream without your permission or knowledge.
If that doesn’t work, they just use the mind ray.

Always the one to point out the simple explanation. Mindrays work under the same theory as do microwaves, digital cameras, and the interwebs... The theory of PFM.

Anyone?

You're a brave man to want to be leveraged like that, but why haven't you just gone down to your local credit union or bank and borrowed against them? With 3 paid for properties I would think any of those institutions would want to loan against them at very attractive rates. On the other hand, it's folks like you that have a lot of risk tolerance that make huge $$$$$ IF it all goes right..........I like my places paid for and unemcumbered so I'm way too conservative for this strategy.

>>three cash flow positive properties paid in full

If they are paid in full, is it not nearly obvious that they would be cash-flow positive? Heck, you could even rent them out for 2% of your purchase price and still be cash flow positive after property tax and some rudimentary maintenance.

justme says

If they are paid in full, is it not nearly obvious that they would be cash-flow positive?

Well, if not, we are lucky to have you here to post it, Captain Obvious. Don't bother to actually post on topic though...

tatupu70 says

justme says

If they are paid in full, is it not nearly obvious that they would be cash-flow positive?

Well, if not, we are lucky to have you here to post it, Captain Obvious. Don’t bother to actually post on topic though…

Apparently it wasn't obvious to the original poster. But then the original poster MAY be a shill for the real-estate-industrial-complex, or maybe someone trying to get a private loan (lender beware) against their property. I don't know, but I did feel like putting the poster on notice that we are not complete fools here at patrick,net, in case s/he was mistaken.

justme says

Apparently it wasn’t obvious to the original poster. But then the original poster MAY be a shill for the real-estate-industrial-complex, or maybe someone trying to get a private loan (lender beware) against their property. I don’t know, but I did feel like putting the poster on notice that we are not complete fools here at patrick,net, in case s/he was mistaken.

Oh, OK. Thank you for defeding pat.net's honor against those evil shills. Again--we are lucky to have you here for fight for us.

tatupu70 says

Oh, OK. Thank you for defeding pat.net’s honor against those evil shills. Again–we are lucky to have you here for fight for us.

Thank you, at your service.

justme does raise an interesting point, tho. the OP was giving us all the necessary info about his properties and asking us what we thought, because we have the best & brightest minds here.

He just wasn't sure if we understood that, if they were paid off, they'd be cash flow positive. so he told us.

Nomograph says

rob918 says
If they are paid in full, is it not nearly obvious that they would be cash-flow positive?
No. He could have vacant lots somewhere that could be borrowed against, but bring in no income.

Huh? That's not my post.

Dude has three properties he came here to ask us Dreamers, sumpin aint right.

I am sure none of the rich would move their money/business offshore

Let them go. We don't need their money . . . we can print more.

As for their "business", if their business is rentierism their absence will improve things.

If you can find a way to force the rich to pay for your big government wet dream then more power to you.

~10 years ago things were in balance. What happened???