patrick.net

Don't look now but the Fed is trying to convince us that they can taper and still keep rates low-they know they are stuck and need to stop the QE but they cant risk it because they need low rates so they are trying to sell us on low rates without QE.

If they try to taper, rates will skyrocket and home prices will plummet

Even if they keep the QE and increase it housing price will have a hard time rising as incomes are not rising

That talk he gave which essentially said- there is no economy unless the central banks can create bubbles was frightening.
Absolutely not true, but frightening that if he and others say it enough people believe it and allow them to try and plan the economy through monetary policy

edvard2 says

Meanwhile, the approval rating of the GOP is at the lowest levels its historically ever been. So in reality the GOP has bigger issues, not to mention how they have so far done nothing to attract the voters whom didn't for them the last time around and probably won't the next either.

The "team" mentality doesn't get us anywhere. Who cares if one party is currently more in trouble than the other if both parties continue roughly the same disastrous politics and the president and their administrations not only keep lying through their teeth, but have abandoned the rule of law. How can it be of any comfort that "your team" (which is essentially the same as the other) won against "the other team"? No doubt this a great time to be a career politician.. ;)

John Bailo says

Voting Form Shows George Zimmerman Is A Registered Democrat

Who cares? Nobody called for his trial because of his political party. The public outcry for a trial was based on the fact that he murdered a teenager.

Yes, mell, that is exactly the point. Our leaders have abandoned us and are openly working for our oppressors. Our representatives have been bought and paid for by soulless corporations and mega rich investors. Our government is staffed with bureaucrats whose idealism drives them to job-killing regulations (EPA carbon regulations). And our news media tells us it's all because our favorite political party(whichever is yours, according to preference and news source) isn't being properly respected.

Call it Crazy says

President Obama's approval rating is similar to that of George W. Bush at this point in his presidency

Makes sense. Obama has surpassed Bush in vile evilness. The poll numbers just reflect that.

Dan8267 says

Makes sense. Obama has surpassed Bush in vile evilness. The poll numbers just reflect that.

Uhhh.... no.

mell says

The "team" mentality doesn't get us anywhere. Who cares if one party is currently more in trouble than the other if both parties continue roughly the same disastrous politics and the president and their administrations not only keep lying through their teeth

One party has more issues than the other. The GOP has a legacy issue. Their voters are growing more elderly, they are unable to reach out or attract younger voters or minorities, whom are growing in numbers. Since the GOP has so far made no direction towards correcting those issues they are the ones that are in some serious doo doo for the foreseeable future.

edvard2 says

Uhhh.... no.

Obama has done everything Bush has, and then double down with
- drone strikes that kill civilians including pregnant women, infants, and young and old children.
- outsourcing torture to other countries.
- the assassinations of U.S. citizens, including minors, for reasons as frail as they had a family member suspected of sympathizing with a terrorist group.

So, yes, Obama has done even more evil than Bush. Now, maybe you could make the case that Bush is more evil because he had to start with a system that wasn't evil and corrupted it, but Obama has taken the vileness of our warfare industry to levels that Bush could not obtain.

Just because Obama is black or a Democrat does not in any way diminish the evilness of his policies. Race and political association is irrelevant. I didn't call Bush evil because he was a Republican; I called him evil because he murdered innocents wantonly. I hold the "other side" -- and I use that term very loosely -- accountable to the exact same standards.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

If Zimmerman really wanted to be president, all he has to do is print posters with his face, captioned, "NEGROES! SAVE ME! KILL! KILL! KILL!"

That is exactly why Zimmerman is a hero of the south. He illustrates why the south is obsessed with the "gun rights". They don't believe in the Second Amendment as a way to revolt against government; no, they really consider the Second Amendment to be a license for hunting blacks.

John Bailo says

Voting Form Shows George Zimmerman Is A Registered Democrat

Which makes it odd that the GOTP has adopted him as their own.

Dumbocrat Mole?

Dan8267 says

Obama has done everything Bush has

Let me stop you right there.... who exactly started those two wars? yeah.... nuff' said.

edvard2 says

Dan8267 says

Obama has done everything Bush has

Let me stop you right there.... who exactly started those two wars? yeah.... nuff' said.

No, the problem is exactly that you stop with who started the wars and the various other evils (torture, kidnapping, rape, etc.).

Honey, it doesn't matter that Bush started these evils. Obama continued and expanded on them. That makes Obama responsible for the evil he has continued and elevated.

The fact that Bush was evil in no way condones or justifies the wicked vileness of Obama. Each president stands on his own record, and Obama's record is god-awful.

yeah, whatever man.

This is damning evidence.

John Bailo says

Voting Form Shows George Zimmerman Is A Registered Democrat

http://www.ibtimes.com/voting-form-shows-george-zimmerman-registered-democrat-confounding-message-pushed-left-430738

If only Obama would do something as stupid as Iraq War II, so that all the fake libertarians could get over the guilt and shame of voting for Bush.

Obligatory conclusion: Both parties are equally bad, Obama = Bush, two sides of the same coin, not a nickel's worth of difference, wake up sheeple, blah blah blah [insert further intellectually lazy false equivalences to taste], copy/paste to all threads.

Call it Crazy says

HydroCabron says

If only Obama would do something as stupid as Iraq War II,

Nah, He'll want his own war, like Iran War I or Syria War I.... He wants to be original.....

Kinda like his signature health care law.....

Yes, an unprecedented health-care law, unlike anything the Heritage Institute or Mitt Romney would ever propose.

House for which I paid $506K in early 2012 is now selling for 725K+ (Same house, same floor plan, same builder). Now that is some kind of bubble about to bust.

Signs of the bust are showing. The realtor next door has stopped building activity as many of the already built houses are unsold.

edvard2 says

Dan8267 says

Obama has done everything Bush has

Let me stop you right there.... who exactly started those two wars? yeah.... nuff' said.

It's reasoning like this that sent fire bombs to Dresden, nearly annihilating that city AFTER the Germans surrendered. Because, well, we have all these bombs still, and they DID start this war ....

Grats, edvard, you haven't fallen far from your imperial roots.

Dan8267 says

edvard2 says

Dan8267 says

Obama has done everything Bush has

Let me stop you right there.... who exactly started those two wars? yeah.... nuff' said.

No, the problem is exactly that you stop with who started the wars and the various other evils (torture, kidnapping, rape, etc.).

Honey, it doesn't matter that Bush started these evils. Obama continued and expanded on them. That makes Obama responsible for the evil he has continued and elevated.

The fact that Bush was evil in no way condones or justifies the wicked vileness of Obama. Each president stands on his own record, and Obama's record is god-awful.

I agree, but does anyone else think Dan is turning into an elderly black woman?

Of course home prices would rise if there was no inventory- just like unemployment can go down if there are people leaving the labor force-but you can't call that a housing or labor market recovery

Here is a report from Houston- claims that the "recovery" there has no legs left and was caused by QE
http://aaronlayman.com/2013/11/katy-houston-tx-housing-bubbles-no-longer-a-question-of-fact/

BB said: Retired people generally (hopefully!) have their house paid off and thus remove both themselves and their primary residence from the housing market until they pass on.
Here's a classic from the Pat. net archives. This one is from Carol Llyod who used to write the Surreal Estate column for the SF Chronicle. Livin' the California Dream:
A decade ago, I remember my mother telling me that after nearly 20 years of residing in their home, which my father had designed and built for about $75,000, my parents had a mortgage of over $500,000.
"What happened?" I asked my mother disapprovingly.
She waved my concerns aside. "This house is a bank," she said. "We'll never pay it off."

Quigley says

AFTER the Germans surrendered.

The firebombing of Dresden occurred in February 1945. The Germans surrendered in April and May. Kurt Vonnegut survived the bombing and aftermath as a prisoner of war, and described the experience in Slaugterhouse-Five.

Sorry to veer off topic - SIWOTI strikes again.

...and lets not forget input from our very own Smaugld which was very timely and on topic...

http://smaulgld.com/the-false-housing-recovery-of-2013-and-how-it-unraveled/?source=Patrick.net

The more one reads, the more one uncovers this not so elaborate ponzi scheme....we have seen this movie before (2006) and we know how it ends. The only thing different this time, the economy is much worse off than at that point in time. How much longer can we kid ourselves?

I think OGolfer is doing a great job on himself ... 37% approval rating, 9% drop IN A MONTH.

What a guy... owned by Banksters, Wall Street, and the military. Gutted the middle class to give his "contributors" free money (B of A, Goldman Saks, Chase Manhattan, etc etc .).

And then spied on his own citizens (not to mention his "allies".)

And gave his bagmen/fundraisers the IT job of setting up the healthcare system.

God ... even the Titantic made it out of port. George Bush in blackface, for sure!

kashif313 says

The only thing different this time, the economy is much worse off than at that point in time. How much longer can we kid ourselves?

Yes the economy is worse this time AND the participation of the riches of this bubble is just for the better off.

In the 2004-06 bubble the average Joe got in on the action.

Want to know why Obummer is plummeting ? Because he sold out the entire middle class of America to his rich contributor/owners. Here's what one the most intelligent men in America thinks of him: a black man with a PHD teaching constitutional law at Princeton.

".....we end up with a Republican, a Rockefeller Republican in blackface, with Barack Obama.... a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats.”

Dr. Cornel West
Princeton University

WTF? I thought we were friends, AF.

Obama: Multiple Life terms for NSA, consorting with bankers, and getting our boys killed for no reason.

Hillary: Life for supporting the Iraq insanity.

Bush: Don't bother sentencing - just lock up.

bob2356 says

Give up on this one, you are just looking foolish at this point. I cherry picked a time frame you say. Why did you choose to compare the 9 years before aca was signed plus the year aca was signed to the year the aca was singed plus the 4 years after. That's pretty damn big cherry picking. Come on.

Um, I didn't. ACA became law in 2010, genius. What were you saying about "looking foolish"? LOL.

bob2356 says

A few years when rate hikes weren't QUITE double digits? Since when is 6%,5%,5%,5% a few years not QUITE double digits. Give me a break. BTW what about the 9% year in 2011 after aca was signed?

What is your POINT here? Again, are you arguing that Bush fixed healthcare once and for all, and that everything was going to be o.k. without any reforms? What ABOUT the 9%? The fact that the numbers fluctuates indicates to me that it isn't useful to look at any one year. The only meaningful way to look at the data is to AVERAGE the rate increases before ACA and compare them to the AVERAGE rate increases after ACA. And that is what I did. My conclusion: So far, ACA has not caused rates to skyrocket.

DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT CONCLUSION? If yes, show me your reasoning for concluding that rates have skyrocketed.

bob2356 says

Hello, you stated aca "improved" rates 2010-2013. Period. Your own words. Then you backpedalled to say aca hasn't caused the to skyrocket "as many right-wingers have falsely claimed". Uh Oh, do I get to say the S word now?

You can use the word strawman, but you wouldn't be using it correctly. A strawman argument would be if I made up an argument and attributed it to YOU. I guess you've never taken a logic class. Backpedaling would be the correct term if someone changed their argument. I don't believe I did, but it's a moot point as I will now clearly state my point.

If I wasn't clear, I apologize. Let me be clear now. The rate of increase of health insurance premiums has gone down since ACA. Most analysts believe that this slowdown is not entirely due to the law - only partly so. The rest has been attributed to the slowing of the economy. Is that clear enough? Hope so.

So let's get to the point, shall we? The "skyrocketing" or "explosion" of rates that has been claimed by the right, is not supported by the data.

Is that clear to you?

bob2356 says

No, my major complaint isn't the subsidies. That's ONE of my major complaints. You really haven't thought through the bigger implications of aca. It's a seismic shift. It's a really dangerous piece of legislation. Stop right there. I don't hate it, I'm at best dispassionate. First of all, repeating once again, it won't solve the real problem of increasing costs which will still have to be addressed at some future point. The part that is dangerous is it's the first law that people are compelled to buy a private product, and the first law where people are given money to buy a specific product in an ongoing permement basis. The key word is first. It breaks new ground. Have you ever seen government do something new then not continue to do it? What will be next? That thought scares me.

Once again, you are denigrating the law based not on any DATA, but simply on theoretical grounds. In other words, you are arguing that it CANNOT work, by its very nature. You keep denying that you are making the argument, yet you keep doing it. Read your own paragraph above. Is there any data in it whatsoever? No, there is not. Are there any facts about healthcare costs? No, there are not. Only your theories and your vague aspersions that it is a "seismic shift" and "dangerous".

Also, when I said you hate the law, I think the point there flew way over your head. I was actually lampooning YOU. You keep saying that I have "unlimited enthusiasm" for the law. Therefore, I said that YOU have "unlimited hatred" for the law, as a counter to your exaggeration. Did you really not get that?

bob2356 says

With all due respect have you actually read what I've written time and time again or am I somehow writing in a version of English not familiar to you?

More insults, more ad hominem, no actual content.

bob2356 says

I've been saying throughout this entire post, and many others, the real problem is rising health care costs that are totally unsustainable. Where do you possibly get optimism the problem is solved out of that?

Then if you don't believe the problem was solved, why do you believe it's relevant that rate increases slowed in the mid 2000s? Why do you think it's valid to arbitrarily choose that point when citing pre-ACA rate increases?

bob2356 says

Then you come up with "You're saying Bush solved the problem once and for all". This is starting to be the twilight zone.

What is it you're not understanding? If you don't think the problem was solved in mid-2000s, then why is it relevant that rates increases were lower then?

The only thing that makes sense is to AVERAGE the rate increases before ACA and compare to the rate increases after ACA, so that we average out the outliers. Why do you disagree with this? Seems pretty clear to me; not sure why you're flipping out and babbling about curious george.

bob2356 says

BUT, rate increases are still above the rate of inflation which is all that matters. The problem continues.

True, but the question should be "Are we worse off than we were before, to the point that repealing ACA would benefit the country?" I say no. I also think we should at least wait through the first year of the program actually being in place, and examine the data, before concluding that it has failed.

Summers sucks, of that there is no doubt. But the notion of digital currency is intriguing. What, for example, are debit cards? Your account at the local bank does not consist of cash sitting in a bank vault. It is all accounting, nothing more already. Think about the transaction that occurs when you take out a mortgage to buy a house. Your bank produces a document which results in your account having X new digital credits in it. You create a document, a check, that you present to the seller, he deposits the document with his bank, and his account is credited with these digital credits. Your bank does not load up X dollars on a truck and deliver it to his bank. This system is already being abused through the issuance of fraudulent documents, for example, toxic securities, that result in the issuance and transfer of digital credits into the accounts of the perpetrators of fraud. We are supposed to believe that dealing with these improper transfers will destroy the system upon which we all depend, and so let's "move on" as Obama famously says. You and the 99% however cannot have digital credits transferred into your account through the issuance of fraudulent documents. You typically have to trade your time and efforts for some small amount of transferred digital credits. And the amount of digital credits that are transferred into your account for your time and effort becomes less and less.

bob2356 says

Pretty funny you have to resort to using "socialized medicine" as some kind of code word.

I wasn't aware that was a "code word". My understanding was that socialized medicine and universal healthcare were synonyms. If it bothers you that much, I'll stop using that term. No need to have a heart attack.

Greenspan to Clinton:
"We can't afford to spend money on job creation, we have a deficit"

Greenspan to Bush almost a decade later:
"Go ahead, spend all the money you need to prosecute the GWOT. We got the money."

Homeboy says

The only thing that makes sense is to AVERAGE the rate increases before ACA and compare to the rate increases after ACA. Why do you disagree with this?

Because trees don't grow to the sky. Saying a teenager had a 10% growth spurt one year doesn't mean he'll grow to be 100' tall by age 50. Some people who had never studied economics even projected, based on the increases you cite, that medical costs would soon exceed 100% of GDP - a mathematical impossibility.

There is no intrinsic reason why technological advances, which lead to lower costs in most sectors, should always drive higher costs in healthcare. There are mainly political reasons why costs have been increasing in that sector, higher than any other country on earth: the fee-for-service model, the lemon socialism, the lack of a free market, the artificial increases to demand (e.g. DTC advertising of drugs that require an Rx), the artificial restrictions on supply, etc. All of these factors reflect a political system designed to maximize revenue, and that system operates as designed. Costs should have fallen, but instead we got legislation to drive them higher than would have happened under prior law.

bgamall4 says

Lol, Florida is filled with something. I think the humidity and swamp does something. Those little creatures in the drinking water are eating at their brains.

It's the extra chlorine to treat the swamp water. It bleaches the brain cells.

anyone see the ten year note today- shot up JUST ON THE TALK that there might be a taper LOL

So the recovery is real now?? http://smaulgld.com/five-long-years-in-the-feds-potemkin-qe-village/

SoftShell says

This is damning evidence.

John Bailo says

Voting Form Shows George Zimmerman Is A Registered Democrat

http://www.ibtimes.com/voting-form-shows-george-zimmerman-registered-democrat-confounding-message-pushed-left-430738

You mean because you wouldn't have worked so hard to exculpate Zimmermonster if you'd known?

Truth is, there are lots of crappy Dems, especially in the electorate. It's just that it's not 100% like the GOP.

bgamall4 says

Maybe she believed he was innocent in the Martin shooting. He was found not guilty but his behavior is showing that he very well may not have been innocent.

Not guilty is not the same as innocent. The state failed to prove this asshole murdered a child. They'll get him on tax evasion, or shooting a white chick.