patrick.net

OK, so if you only believe the manufacturer of your toxic SSRI placebos, here it is from the horse's mouth, the citalopram prescribing information including the black box warning mandated by FDA:

"Suicidality and Antidepressant Drugs

Antidepressants increased the risk compared to placebo of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders... (See WARNINGS: Clinical Worsening and Suicide Risk, PRECAUTIONS: Information for Patients, and PRECAUTIONS: Pediatric Use.)
***
Pooled analyses of short-term placebo-controlled trials of antidepressant drugs (SSRIs and others) showed that these drugs increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults (ages 18-24) with major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders.
***
During marketing of Celexa and other SSRIs and SNRIs (serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors), there have been spontaneous reports of adverse events occurring upon discontinuation of these drugs, particularly when abrupt, including the following: dysphoric mood, irritability, agitation, dizziness, sensory disturbances (e.g., paresthesias such as electric shock sensations), anxiety, confusion, headache, lethargy, emotional lability, insomnia, and hypomania
***
SSRIs and SNRIs, including Celexa, may increase the risk of bleeding events."

Those are just the parts that relate directly to the OP. There's lots more, including that even the manufacturer's own data (see above about "rescue countries") found those pills were twice as likely to cause nausea as benefit, but at least citalopram isn't as bad as its more popular cousin paroxetine (advertised on TV as Paxil). Also, you seem to misunderstand the word toxic, so you might want to look that up. I'd link to a definition but, this being a forum, you wouldn't believe me.

Call it Crazy says

What Happens When "The Workers" Just Don't Care Anymore?

You consume a lot more bodily fluids, especially if you're rude and/or don't tip well.

Somehow your sites always show that google screen saying something about unusual traffic.

edvard2 says

Whatever "studies" these are I would dearly love to see.

Well, there are a number of them. Here is one, published in JAMA, that got a lot of attention a few years ago:
"The magnitude of benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo increases with severity of depression symptoms and may be minimal or nonexistent, on average, in patients with mild or moderate symptoms"
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157
Hey, if the placebo works and the side effects are manageable (no homicidal or suicidal ideation, or severe libido decline, I hope) I say go for it.

SSRIs work on inhibiting seratonin reuptake by the cells, i.e. making more of it available at synapse. However, issues such as anxiety/depression have more going on than simply low levels of seratonin. There are a myriad of nuerotrasmitters that may be at play such as dopamine, gaba, etc. SSRIs don't do anything for those and some other substances that target dopamine have many deleterious side effects. In fact even SSRIs have been linked to suicidal tendencies in teenagers so they are not really "safe" from holistic perspective. And the fact that they must be taken for life is outright frightening.

sbh says

Nuthin' wurth lernin' ever comithout a beatin'.

How did you learn about sex?

New Renter says

Call it Crazy says

What Happens When "The Workers" Just Don't Care Anymore?

You consume a lot more bodily fluids, especially if you're rude and/or don't tip well.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/tSWnmOvgyKc

dublin hillz says

the fact that they must be taken for life is outright frightening.

Especially since the price (including the required Rx) has been increased artificially to levels that most people can't even afford, thus converting the addicts into compulsive advocates for mandatory subsidized insurance. The more people PhRMA can put on addictive "not habit forming" pills, and the higher it can raise the prices with subsidies and "no lifetime caps," the more captive constituents it can corral into its CAFO feedlot. BTW, the increased suicidality is particularly pronounced (i.e. around double the risk compared to placebo) in the 18-24 cohort, precisely the age of many of the returning vets who are offing themselves as described in the OP.

Dan8267 says

Capitalism rewards only one thing: bargaining power. It does not reward wealth production. If you want to be rich, don't do anything productive. Get real good at playing zero-sum games, especially with other people's money. That's the way America works, so why should Americans actually do work?

This is where I had to dislike your comment. You should get a better understanding on who and what capitalism rewards. If you truly think America is capitalist country, then you clearly don't know what a capitalist economy is.

spydah_hh says

If you truly think America is capitalist country, then you clearly don't know what a capitalist economy is.

I'm not going to get into a nomenclature debate about "capitalism" vs "corporatism". Our economy is the end-result of the capitalist philosophy which is that ownership is king. The "capital" in capitalism means money. Capitalism literally means an economic system controlled by those with the most money. So, no, wealth production isn't what gets rewarded by capitalist economies.

Dan8267 says

It tastes like shit

What are you drinking?

A Margarita with Cabo Wabo pure agave silver tequila, fresh squeezed lime juice, some sugar water, and a splash of Cointreau is delicious.

curious2 says

Antibiotics and vaccines did help in reducing infant mortality,

This is the reason for our increased longevity.
American Allopathy wants you to think it is the half million (X 250 thousand bucks) bypass surgeries they scare people into every year.
A Mayo study last year found that 40 (or possibly 60) percent of current medical practices may be ineffective.
http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/07/26/mayo-clinic-146-common-practices-we-should-reconsider

If we are slinging SSRI anecdotes, here is mine.
I watched a person very close to me come off of Paroxetine, after taking it for several years. It was wrenching, an emotional nightmare. It took months to wean off and I don't think it could have been successful if they had been trying hold a job.

This just in, we still suck...
Thank you that is all... back to doing a sucky job(whitenoise)

Dan8267 says

So, no, wealth production isn't what gets rewarded by capitalist economies.

Very true. People who produce nothing, such as many people on Wall Street, make a ton of money. Prop trading doesn't really produce anything, for example. A lot of secondary market activity is non-productive to some extent -- certainly a lot of speculation doesn't produce anything.

Similarly, the real estate business doesn't really produce anything -- it's hard to ascertain the real value provided by realtors. There's no production there, just middle-men engaging in rent-seeking. There's no such thing as money on the sidelines -- when I buy a house, the seller now has my former sideline money on the sidelines again.

That doesn't mean there aren't services that add value. For example, certain investment banking functions do actually produce something. In the real estate business, people who renovate can produce value.

Robert Sproul says

Paroxetine

That's one of the most addictive, due mainly to the short serum half-life; BBC reported on it in an extended documentary program and individual reports; other published studies have found it more addictive than heroin and similarly habit forming to cocaine. GSK advertised it on American TV as "not habit forming" until FDA made them stop.

"Paxil is Forever"

In Orwellian PhRMA-speak, "not habit forming" means incredibly addictive.

sbh says

Anarchy offers no solution

A unabomber cabin on twenty acres, and a Trader Joes an hour away is about what I need I guess.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/XX-Paradise-Vly-Everson-WA-98295/2109248325_zpid/

a bit scary . . .

Shoulda got this place when it came up:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/9375-Heady-Rd-Sumas-WA-98295/117586961_zpid/

20 acres of WA state quietude; sold for $410 a year ago.

30 miles to the Trader Joes in Bham; perfect for a Leaf, though the energy budget for EVs maybe works better to be driving uphill on the outbound and downhill on the return -- nothing uphill of this place but wilderness.

Dan8267 says

spydah_hh says

If you truly think America is capitalist country, then you clearly don't know what a capitalist economy is.

I'm not going to get into a nomenclature debate about "capitalism" vs "corporatism". Our economy is the end-result of the capitalist philosophy which is that ownership is king. The "capital" in capitalism means money. Capitalism literally means an economic system controlled by those with the most money. So, no, wealth production isn't what gets rewarded by capitalist economies.

No our economy isn't the end-result of capitalism. The people or the market has lost control of the money since 1913 and along with it definition of capitalism. What we have is not capitalism but just a small shadow of it, if anything we're closer to socialism. The capitalist theory does not involve with the money supply being in the hands of government. He who controls the money supply controls the economy.

I encourage you to go read and understand what capitalism is about so you won't rant and give the wrong impression to others what capitalism is about. because like I said if you continue to call our economy a capitalist economy you clearly don't know what capitalism is. Capitalism is not quasi-capitalism or crony capitalism, it's capitalism or not.

I bet all the people who signed up were NWA types just standing in line because they thought there was FREE DRUGS at the end.

Fox News done tole me.

And 2% of $500,000 is still a lot of money.

0'rsbh says

Anarchy offers no solution, just dissolution of the present and a future built around the "notness" of what got burned to the ground. When the fires start the anarchists just sit and watch, enrapt, enthralled, complete. Or, some one would pay the fire department not to extinguish the fire in the house of the guy he hates. All it takes is the money. It's worse than what we have now.

WTF are you talking about?

The point is that we need a smaller government. Your conjecture is irrelevant.

sbh says

Every counterpoint to our current system that you ever make is pure conjecture. You have every right to be wrong and you never fail to be so. It's when you bust yourself in the chops by doing precisely as you berate others of doing that you just exemplify how pointless and deluded you are.

You are pontificating, what I'm talking about is simple and true.

Don't hire an agent. Do it yourself. It's easier than you think, or should I say easier than the real estate agents want you to think.

Dan8267 says

Call it Crazy says

Maybe the fact that 70 million Americans are on mind-altering drugs has something to do with it.

150 million Americans are on mind-altering drugs. The majority of adult Americans drink alcoholic beverages. Alcohol is a mind-altering drug. That's the whole point of it. It tastes like shit, so the only reason to drink it is to alter your mind.

Two points for Dan

Dan8267 says

Call it Crazy says

The level of sloth, laziness and apathy that we are witnessing in this country is absolutely mind-numbing.

The grunt worker knows the system is rigged and no matter how much he wealth he produces, he won't get ahead. What did you expect to happen?

Capitalism rewards only one thing: bargaining power. It does not reward wealth production. If you want to be rich, don't do anything productive. Get real good at playing zero-sum games, especially with other people's money. That's the way America works, so why should Americans actually do work?

Three points for Dan.

indigenous says

The point is that we need a smaller government

I was going to argue, but a ~$17,000 per-capita gov't expense is somewhat ridiculous.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=vHT

real per-capita total govt expense

Well, I still argue I guess, for without government redistribution I think the 99% is totally fucked in this country going forward.

Conservatives want to neuter "government", but by doing so they neuter democracy and thereby empower wealth -- "privilege" -- even more.

The wealthy of the UK, Sweden, etc did not like the outright punitive taxation levels of the 1960s and 70s.

Plenty of mistakes were made by the leftists running these socialist experiments (confiscatory taxation was one), but even as it stands now the average guy in UK and Sweden has a better deal than here, now.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/may/28/worlds-happiest-countries-oecd-australia

We don't need more government per se, but we do need better government. For what our government is spending on healthcare we could have the Canadian or Swedish systems for free -- their per-capita expenses are less than half ours.

It'd be good to cut the DOD in half, too, but we can't do that in isolation, not that democratic governance will ever be able to cut back a gravy train (so critical to local economies) like that.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Fast food and delivery gigs aren't good examples. Every four dollar an hour job is exactly the same in a country in which the housing market is rigged to make everything unaffordable to everyone except people who can live work in City and vacation in Monte Carlo. It's just a source of humiliation. Hey, must suck to live in a dumpster, huh? At least the food's better.

USPS? Every time I turn on the TV or web, there's some howling psychopath demanding it be disbanded and its pensions looted. Hard to get motivated when half the congress personally lives and breathes to doom you to homelessness.

Please Mr. Shostakovich, I beg you to spare the life of Dan, Jazz and Corntrollio. They deserve to survive the apocalypse. Everyone else, I will volunteer my River Tam like skills to your quest for carnage. Thank you, HRH

Bellingham Bill says

Well, I still argue I guess, for without government redistribution I think the 99% is totally fucked in this country going forward.

Not really, what the left fails to realize is that the inequality is exacerbated by FED spending and the ensuing inflation. This is the very cause of inequality.

Bellingham Bill says

Plenty of mistakes were made by the leftists running these socialist experiments (confiscatory taxation was one), but even as it stands now the average guy in UK and Sweden has a better deal than here, now.

Sweden is more myth than reality. All socialist countries are borrowing from tomorrow to pay for today. Not to mention that both them and Switzerland do not have any defense expense.

Bellingham Bill says

For what our government is spending on healthcare we could have the Canadian or Swedish systems for free -- their per-capita expenses are less than half ours.

Healthcare is complex, but the core of the problem is that government spending through medicare has inflated the cost while simultaneously limiting the competition within the states.

Bellingham Bill says

It'd be good to cut the DOD in half,

Crony capitalism of the worst kind.

Fed employees get double their private sector counterparts, almost half of all jobs are for the government, public employee unions with 90% pensions in Calif.

The government has to be shrunk it is the only effective way to do it.

"Fort Hood shooter...Lopez, 34, killed three people, wounded 16 -- before fatally shooting himself... Lopez suffered from depression, anxiety and other psychiatric complaints and was receiving treatment and medication."

"...was taking anti-depressants...."

No brand names yet, but it's most likely he was on an Rx SSRI/SNRI.

The platinum shitting Chindian Billionaires don't have to buy real estate any more, they can buy the politicians directly and get Dianne Fenstein to sell them plush National and State Park properties at a discount (with a wee commission for her hubby)!

Does this mean that California real estate is going to crash?

Impossible, buy now or be priced out forever, we don't need no stinkin' Chindian Billionaires!

I sort of figured when I came back online and saw this post much of the same sort of armchair medical discussions would be ongoing.

I'm going to conclude my involvement with this because just like most things in life, unless you yourself are involved directly with a medical treatment then you have absolutely no clue what its really like and by making generalized statements merely pulled from a google search doesn't automatically make you an expert or correct.

This sort of discussion has morphed into the same kind of discussion akin to the ones made concerning vaccines and the supposed links to autism. The reports that were initially made out as "expert" medical opinion later turned out to lack any ties to real medical reality. Yet as we see now with even some links on this forum there are now occurrences of measles and other totally preventable diseases afflicting children across the country. All because people read something on the Internet.Everyone has become an "expert".

Anyone could pick any subject- whether it be political, medical, science, or religion and easily find a number of links to studies made by experts of every field which would support any opinion they might have and use this as 'proof' of their beliefs. Its easy to forget that those experts, statisticians, and reporters are actually not really all that different from anyone else. They have an opinion and we all know what we say about opinions...

I find it especially troubling that more and more, people seem to be using the Internet to either self-diagnose themselves or to scare the crap out of themselves over anything. They do so and believe they now have the expertise to make a call. You could easily find the very worst outcome of anything related to a medical procedure out there. If you want to find horror stories, you can. Its easy because its all out there floating around with no shortage of studies, opinions, and so on.

At the end of the day we are all different- both mentally and physically. There are no magic cure-all drugs or medical procedures. Every person reacts differently to medications, procedures, and operations. Just because someone here and there has an adverse reaction to one thing doesn't mean EVERYONE will have the same reaction. The best way to deal with medical problems is to see your doctor and build a relationship with him or her. There is a big difference between someone who viewed a couple of medical papers from their cubicle compared to a doctor who spent a decade or more in school before even getting into their profession.

In closing, there seems to be a lot of ignorance in general concerning mental issues. Even as of today mental issues are stigmatized and swept under the carpet as one of those things to be hidden from society as a sort of shameful thing. This attitude alone is reason why so many people who probably should seek treatment don't. I have no problem mentioning my situation. To me its like anything else. If you have a heart condition then you can do something about it much in the same way as a mental condition. Finally doing something about my issues changed my life and I am a better person for it. And so I encourage others who might be suffering to seek help.

That's really all I have to about this.

Call it Crazy says

So when you see that older guy working the cashier at Wal-Mart and wonder to yourself how he is surviving, the answer may increasingly be a reverse mortgage.

Obligatory:

The message should still ring true, JUST SAY NO, TO DRUGS

There are so many undesirable outcomes that have manifested over the recent decades that can be linked to the Standard American Diet. You still are what you eat, and your outputs often come from your inputs. Most people could likely remedy whatever it is that is bothering them, by doing an elimination diet experiment on themselves. Anecdotally, all the people I've met, and forums I've read and participated in, the greatest results are yielded by righting ones diet.

Americans comfort level to taking drugs, and "solving" their "problems" via drugs (especially the ones they see advertised on tv), should scare any one of sound mind. The SAD (standard american diet) is loaded with toxins and short on nutrients. armed with proper knowledge of nutrition, one could likely avoid the doctor, dentist, and optimoligist, indefinitely

Reverse mortgages are a wonderful product.
Imagine a retired couple with a ton of equity but not enough income to provide for their basic needs...they would either have to sell, or end up getting ripped off by unscrupulous lenders when they try to borrow. The reverse mortgage allows them to continue living in their home, while providing an extra cash flow to help make ends meet.

Lowest levels in "19 months" includes all of last Winter.

This is actually good news for housing: it means they have massive equity to borrow against!

ha ha - check this out.

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2014/04/02/man-stages-burglary-avoid-work/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl26%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D460349

errc says

armed with proper knowledge of nutrition, one could likely avoid the doctor, dentist, and optimoligist, indefinitely

Amazing. Just absolutely amazing. So are you trying to tell us all that you've miraculously discovered that all ya' gotta' do is eat right and you'll somehow always be free of cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's disease, and all the other diseases that in many cases have nothing to do with anything other than hereditary factors?

I recall that we had this very same conversation several months ago and even so, I'm still baffled that anyone living in modern society would suddenly proclaim that modern medicine is a big waste of time. That is such awful advice.

Secondly, why are you demonizing drugs? Its not like drugs are this new thing that is veiled in conspiracy. For example if you went in for an operation. Back in the "good old days", the general way of operating on a person was to get them wasted drunk, have several strong men hold them down, and put a stick in the patient's mouth to bite down on. Surely that can't be better than general or localized anesthesia, right?

Now- I will agree with your comment about food. Most Americans eat diets that are horrific. Lots and lots of sweet, salty, fatty foods with hordes of chemicals, preservatives, and processing. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and a host of other medical problems are tied to obesity and poor diet. But diet alone is not what causes people to get sick. Diet alone- a good one- is not a substitute for avoiding the doctor's office or even routine medical care. I just find this interesting because its not like this idea is new. Back in the 1800's there was a movement towards "the waters" where many believed fervently that "taking to the waters", which were natural hot springs and mineral baths were the cure-all for all ailments and that one could avoid the bothersome trips to the doctor as a result. So its ironic that here we are, in 2014 with a suggestion that's not all that different- that by simply eating right one could avoid the doctor. Eating right will certainly make you healthy. But its not going to prevent you from having to see the doctor or any other number of medical professionals over the course of a lifetime of unforeseen medical issues, of which food alone will not sure...

The Professor says

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Hard to get motivated when half the congress personally lives and breathes to doom you to homelessness.

Amen

There was a great post the other day I read.

Imagine you have a population of restaurant critics reviewing a new BBQ joint. Half of them believe meat is murder, half do not. One half will write a normal spread based on practical assesment of actually eating a meal there. The other half will start from meat is murder, and do everything they can to write an article that has it closed down.

The point being that the GOTP and "libruls" are not just polar opposites of their opinions. Most liberals base themselves more on the facts and practical matters of whether something works for and benefits them, than on ideology and purity tests.

Thus the facts about USPS operation are entirely irrelevant. GOTP cripple it with onerous pension requirements, requiring them to prefund all future premiums for retiree health benefits. Not because they believe in good pensions and want to IMPROVE USPS or the lives of it's workers, but because ideology drives them to torpedo it from any angle they can. When a bill came up to reduce the pension obligations, the GOP unanimously blocked it.

I used to work with a guy, who WOULD NOT DRIVE ON GEORGIA 400. He used to say "there is no GA 400 inside Atlanta". This was because of his ideology about not paying tolls to corrupt state entities, so he would drive way the hell out of his way and sacrifice time and gas to avoid a small toll. Crazy hostility, and doubly strange considering his often "Galt" speeches to the rest of us, occcurred while we were collecting state paychecks.

Housing doesn't follow inflation. Housing IS inflation, and you're either already on the train or it passed you by a long time ago.