patrick.net

hrhjuliet says

Well, if you live in Silicon Valley even a molding shack is overpriced. Believe me, it's not a Malibu home here that goes for half a million, it's molding shack near the fault line or in a bad neighborhood.

In Silicon Valley a mud hut next to a toxic dump could go for half a million.
That's why I don't live there.
Can a mud hut withstand a 7.5 quake?

Heraclitusstudent says

Now this whole housing process has become soo overdone that even relatively well-off families are forced to live at 4 in 1 db room.

Rent until the prices come down. It's deja vu circa 2006. This isn't sustainable just like that wasn't. The worst thing one can do is take out a 2.5% ARM right now because they have a right to a roof.

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

Why is everyone complaining when two thirds of the homes are affordable?

Is there something wrong with buying something you can afford?

So essentially you are saying it is ok that 1/3 of the population should not have a roof.

Historically, human beings always were able to build some kind of shelter or tent where to live. Yes that was a human right.

Now this whole housing process has become soo overdone that even relatively well-off families are forced to live at 4 in 1 db room. The average family spends thirty years to pay for a shack that any single human could put together in maybe a year worth of actual work.

And you don't see a problem.

Look at the heading of the thread.
It implies two thirds of the homes for sale are affordable. There is nothing to complain about.

bob2356 says

Most of the original 13 colonies were much more conducive to growing hops than wine grapes.

Essentially the same as my point, except that instead of beer culture being brought over from Britain, it arose in the 13 colonies for the same reason it arose in Britain. Nonetheless, there are plenty of areas in America today where you can grow grapes, so either way the popularity of beer comes down to what was grown in the local culture.

JH says

Iosef V HydroCabron says

This is more of a false flag than a bubble. Or maybe a Ponzi scheme.

Sam1000 says

Old news, this is very obvious here in Southern California. However, homeowners will be in denial like they always are and chant that this runup is the "recovery" when it clearly is a speculative bubble.

This is the return to "normal" following a bull trap whose time was extended by fed policy.

Most markets are cyclical. This is certainly not a a buyers market.

JH says

Rent until the prices come down.

It seems that is what young tech folks are doing, causing a rental bidding exercise, and even higher house price (RE is a better investment since rental yield is much higher than the low Treasury yield) near tech neighborhood. When would this feedback loop break?

JH says

This is the return to "normal" following a bull trap whose time was extended by fed policy.

I take it you mean we should wait for the imminent dip and then "buy the dip".

Yes, buying in the pit of despair is always best, as macabre as that sounds. Buying at the bottom is not always possible, but buying at the peak is insane, and in this particular market it's like paying a tribute to graft.

sbh says

The value of education, especially liberal arts, is that it TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK.

Yes! And we need people who THINK more than ever. Well done sbh!

Call it Crazy says

Yep, I'm waiting for NINJA loans to show up soon by desperate lenders...

Let them make the money so cheap, but they should realize that without matching wage growth, one can only go so far to create a prosperity from phantom money.

sbh says

Reality says

So you think 70% - 100% of college graduates majoring in theology is the mark of a great education system and a wonderfully productive society?

It is not the mark of ANYTHING, you imbecile. You try to force your paranoia into everything and it ends up making you out to be the lunatic you clearly are.

Saudi universities churning out graduates with 70+% major in theology is not my paranoia. Practically all universities in the world before the industrial revolution churned out graduates mostly majoring in theology was not my paranoia or figment of imagination. They were and are facts. Your resorting to personal attacks is not helping your argument, but only adding lacking decorum to your lack of knowledge.

Call it Crazy says

sbh says

The value of education, especially liberal arts, is that it TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK.

I disagree, except in specialty classes... The majority of liberal arts related curriculum is a waste of time and money...

Actually, critical thinking skills starts in your early school years and starts at home... If you're relying on being taught "How To Think" in college, your train left the station a long time before that...

Depends on how and where you get your education. A true education is never a waste.

sbh says

Reality says

Families and individuals invest resources and time in education in order to give the kids a leg up on other kids

Of course you think this: you are market obsessed; you cannot envision any human undertaking that is not reducible to a transactive battle. For you all human endeavor is commercial. That is why I deem you an artificial person, a sociopath. You are devoid of the connection to the world that virtually all the rest of us share. You're homeless.

At $200k for a bachelor's degree, not many families can afford that kind of money for kid's cultural enrichment.

Economics assumes rational human behavior. Granted, sometimes some people do not behave rationally . . . however, it's silly to structure a society or build incentive systems based on irrationality.

Once again your penchant for personal attacks is not helping your argument. You actually have no basis to make an assessment on whether I always act based on rational calculations (sometimes I actually do not) . . . however, in order to have a statistical relevant prediction on how people will behave when given a specific set of incentives, rational self-interest has to be the basic assumption on how most people will behave.

Dan8267 says

I don't see how that contradicts my statements. In fact, apples grow quite well in Britain, which supports the position that the culture of Britain largely influence early American culture.

Well my point was simply that beer was not so popular in America until German immigrants, not British expanded the industry in the mid 19th century. It was bottom fermenting German yeasts which allowed beer in those days to NOT taste like crap. It took another set of German immigrants to find other ways to make cheap beer taste like crap.

Dan8267 says

Samuel Adams

I'll take the History channel over Wikipedia any day despite some subject matter that should never be on the History Channel (ghosts, Big Foot, etc.).

One of the many reasons I cut the cable cord was the demise of the History channel. While I like some of their programming I couldn't take the alien autopsy/Bigfoot crap anymore. Wiki may have its crowd sourcing problems but the references are there for anyone to check. One can't say the same thing about THC. Or for that matter The Learning Channel. I'm just glad I got out before Honey Boo Boo came along. Wikipedia may have its problems but at least it can be updated when errors are discovered. The history channel keeps broadcasting the same alien autopsy/Bigfoot crap regardless.

That article just brings up examples of all those unionized government workers with absolute job security. That's always been that way. Government unions always had a significant amount of slackers, while the rest have to work extra hard to make up for it.

I remember last year there was an article about postal worker who just stopped delivering mail and stayed at home instead, dumping mail into his backyard. I bet if he was not in a government union, he'd take a different approach to life.

sbh says

Reality says

so that the kid can have a privileged job in the government

You're hopelessly addicted to this bogeyman. The value of education, especially liberal arts, is that it TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK.

You are the one battling with your own bogeyman. Here's the original statement from my post that you truncated to produce your bogeyman:

"For thousands of years in human history, 'education' was about pursuing a theology degree so that the kid can have a privileged job in the government or the government-endorsed church."

Do you actually believe drilling kids to memorize and recite religious scriptures, as it was done for thousands of years, TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK? Did you mean brainwashing?

You are desperate, slobbering fucking desperate, to bind it to violence and coercion and force and ugliness simply in order to denigrate any structure of society one moment above solipsism. Your lunatic contortions have you bastardizing history and logic and the elements of humanity. Be off, you disease! Go vent your plague elsewhere.

Redirect your outrage at yourself please.

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Friday, April 4, 2014 __ Level is 104.4

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes! This was in the New York Times on August 27, 2006:

And up to date (by me) is here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

And "ThePublic Be Suckered"
http://patrick.net/?p=1230886

hrhjuliet says

Depends on how and where you get your education. A true education is never a waste.

I was specifically talking about tithed money to run schools that drilled youngster to recite religious scriptures and debate how many angels could dance at the tip of a pin, as advanced "education" (beyond basic reading and writing) was done for thousands of years before industrial revolution made science and technology a viable educational tract. Heck, for the bulk of human history, scripture recitation was a more emphasized aspect of "education" than even reading and writing, as most religions were oral traditions for a very long time before they were put down in writing.

To the modern eye, that's hardly "education" but that's how "education" was for much longer time than the time span since science and technology degrees are handed out at universities in the past 150years or so.

There was nothing magical about science and technology degrees starting to out-number Theology degrees from universities in the West only about a century and half ago: the arrival of industrial revolution in the vibrant market economy made the science and technology degrees pay more!

If we revert the pay-off matrix to the old days through government intervention, the younger generation and their parents may well send their precious minds to dead-end pursuits again. This is not even hypothetical . . . as it plays out in Saudi Arabia right now for the past several decades since their government got so much money from oil revenue as to provide cushy jobs to every college graduates regardless major (essentially minor government bureaucrat jobs guaranteed for college graduates). 70+% of their graduates are coming out with Theology degrees!

You know how to get culturally enriched? Get a library card and freaking READ!
Cost: $0.00
Print out a list of "important" books to read and borrow them a few at a time.
Read.
It's that simple.

Numerology?

bubblesitter says

This is very good news for economy. ;)

Cheap money goes a long a way to screw things up very badly. One more recession is needed to really increase the inventory. There is every reason for money to be available at 0%.

Call it Crazy says

bubblesitter says

Cheap money goes a long a way to screw things up very badly.

Yep, I'm waiting for NINJA loans to show up soon by desperate lenders...

bubblesitter says

Call it Crazy says

Yep, I'm waiting for NINJA loans to show up soon by desperate lenders...

Let them make the money so cheap, but they should realize that without matching wage growth, one can only go so far to create a prosperity from phantom money.

With zero rates and NINJA loans I wont give a damn for wage growth. Just buy up everything, and let the tenants pay off the principal over time. It would be a dream.
Someone pinch me please.

Strategist says

With zero rates and NINJA loans I wont give a damn for wage growth. Just buy up everything, and let the tenants pay off the principal over time. It would be a dream.

Someone pinch me please.

Live your dream!

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/21/real_estate/subprime-mortgages/index.html

Buy now, with a credit score of 600.

I like beer. It tastes great. Especially on Fridays with a good pizza.

They have every right, now a days it's "fuck you, pay me". I am all for it, I can't get someone to work their ass off and have an happy attitude about it. I pay based on skills, I could care less if you don't tell me you enjoy the taste of the shit sandwich I serve you while I burn out your body. Welcome to the machine or get in line to suck off the govt/govt job, is there any in between?

JH says

Um, ever been to Malibu? It's cash, celebrities, etc. Not unlike the fortress up north. Nothing goes for 1/2M in malibu!

Umm, ever been to Malibu? I had more than one friend who had a lease on a mobile home there, students at the time.

There's probably some rednecky types up in the hills without ocean views too. Probably some of them have sold out by now.

Even though the land area of Malibu is huge, the population is tiny. Probably around 12,000 or so.

hanera says

I take it you mean we should wait for the imminent dip and then "buy the dip".

I wish it was that easy!

corntrollio says

Umm, ever been to Malibu? I had more than one friend who had a lease on a mobile home there,

Yep, that sounds about right. Leasing a mobile home. Yeah, American dream. You can also buy a studio for 500k. bfd. Red necks are all over the state, but not many have ocean views. Well, los osos and lompoc maybe ;-)

sbh says

My man, the only survivable way to respond to Reality's idiocy is through specious humor. Education is the light.

Reality is the most ironic PatNet handle.

spydah_hh says

if anything we're closer to socialism.

Perhaps a mishmash of socialism, fascism and capitalism. Currently, socialists and fascists have been fighting with one another for government handouts and both have been railing against capitalism.

Call it Crazy says

hrhjuliet says

Depends on how and where you get your education. A true education is never a waste.

So, spending $80K - $100K to get a Liberal Arts degree is a "good" investment in your eyes??

Depends. If your family has the money, sure. If you are using an education for the sole purpose of employment I would not recommend it.

Plenty of people in my field use a liberal arts degree, but is a career the only way to justify art?

If our school system is only meant to create workers, then we need to revamp the system entirely. Most professions would become a trade, and would go through that system, which usually includes an apprenticeship and and plenty of practical application. If the goal is to create workers we should make a clear separation between trade schools and educational institutions, and give them equal prestige. Law, education, sciences and the arts could be left to the Universities. Almost everything else could be best learned in a trade school.

The world needs art, culture and philosophy - now more than ever. If you plan to eliminate all three from our society you would soon see the terrible results.

On Buying and Selling:

"To you the earth yields her fruit, and you shall not want if you but know how to fill your hands.
It is in exchanging the gifts of the earth that you shall find abundance and be satisfied.
Yet unless the exchange be in love and kindly justice, it will but lead some to greed and others to hunger.

When in the market place you toilers of the sea and fields and vineyards meet the weavers and the potters and the gatherers of spices,
Invoke then the master spirit of the earth, to come into your midst and sanctify the scales and the reckoning that weighs value against value.

And suffer not the barren-handed to take part in your transactions, who would sell their words for your labour.
To such men you should say,
"Come with us to the field, or go with our brothers to the sea and cast your net;
For the land and the sea shall be bountiful to you even as to us."

And if there come the singers and the dancers and the flute players, buy of their gifts also.
For they too are gatherers of fruit and frankincense, and that which they bring, though fashioned of dreams, is raiment and food for your soul.

And before you leave the market place, see that no one has gone his way with empty hands.
For the master spirit of the earth shall not sleep peacefully upon the wind till the needs of the least of you are satisfied.". - Kahil Gibran

One more thought on art:
“If we think we can all agree that we need a better world, a more just world, why is it that we are not using the one language that has consistently showed us that we can break down barriers, that can we can reach people? What I need to say to the planners of the world, the governments, the strategists is, ‘You have treated the arts as the cherry on the cake. It needs to be the yeast” ~ Mallika Sarabhai

I'm stuck in Silicon Hell.

My friend's company is closing its facility in the valley due to his company moving to a place outside of Seattle where rent is much cheaper. It's a big well-known company too. Couldn't help feeling like they got the golden ticket out.

MALIBU POLICE CHIEF
Mr. Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town. You don't draw shit, Lebowski. Now we got a nice, quiet little beach community here, and I aim to keep it nice and quiet. So let me make something plain. I don't like you sucking around, bothering our citizens, Lebowski. I don't like your jerk-off name. I don't like your jerk-off face. I don't like your jerk-off behavior, and I don't like you, jerk-off. Do I make myself clear?
THE DUDE
[after a pause] I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.

JH says

Um, ever been to Malibu? It's cash, celebrities, etc. Not unlike the fortress up north. Nothing goes for 1/2M in malibu!

bubblesitter says

Strategist says

With zero rates and NINJA loans I wont give a damn for wage growth. Just buy up everything, and let the tenants pay off the principal over time. It would be a dream.

Someone pinch me please.

Live your dream!

....anyone living the dream is most certainly not visiting this site

jazz music says

he 60% is the readers poll at the end of that ABC News article: readers who say "ACA is a landmark law that made healthcare affordable"

you sure about them numbers ?

At 49 Percent Support, Obamacare Hits a High"

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/03/at-49-percent-support-obamacare-hits-a-high/

So how about the other 49% say ?

I do not feel stuck in California because of my job. I would list my job among my issues that make me feel trapped here, but it's far beneath my family responsibilities that keep me here. I'm a conservator of my blind brother who should not be moved, and my aging family lives here, among other family issues.

My business is built on almost two decades of hard work and goodwill, and it is the type of business that is limited to the clientele being within driving distance. There is literally nothing I could take with me from my business if l move except experience. My husband is also invested, and his job is anchored here, and I still rank family concerns among my biggest obstacle towards leaving the Valley.

I think some situations are far more complicated than other people not experiencing them would like to believe.

This time it's different!

Call it Crazy says

sbh says

How many of you folks do not have the option of moving out of Cali? Not for nuthin' but I ran the numbers on living there and passed....and I can afford to live just about anywhere....because it seemed, well, sorta foolish.

I've wondered that myself... Seems the ones here bitching about high house prices live in CA.... And the chant is "I can't move, my job is here"....

Well, if you don't want to relocate where housing prices are a 1/3 of CA (or less) and where you won't stress about keeping your job so you can pay for your over-priced house, then suck it up cream puffs!!!

Maybe some year in the future, you'll wake up.....

How about New Jersey, they have propane.