patrick.net

Nah, makes too much sense and not enough power and control for the bug gubmnt/prison industrial types.

jazz music says

n just 170 more days we get to vote all these assholes out of our government

hate to break it to you, but our system is structured that some asshole is going to win the office.

VOTE

Asshole A
Asshole B
___________

hint, the ________ candidate never wins, your job as a voter is to pick the least assholish among A and B.

If we had a different voting system, like ranked voting, then you could in fact vote for ________, then A or whatever, but that's not how our electoral system is presently structured.

And thanks to our party system, complicating matters is that picking a least-asshole [e.g. (R), like what arguably the CA senate race in 2000 offered Campbell (R) vs. Feinstein (D)] doesn't necessarily mean the overall political result will be any better, since thanks to the party coalitions what also matters is which party has the majority in each house, so by putting an (R) in office you may cost the (D) their majority, which is a BAD outcome if you think the (D) is marginally better / less-worse than the (R) when in the majority.

The problem isn't the politicians, the problem is the electorate, and our electoral system to a large extent, which is driven by the ignorance and idiocy of the electorate of course.

This is not just a local problem, democracy is dysfunctional* in Germany, Canada, UK, Japan, Australia, maybe even the nordic states for all I know.

We have met the enemy and he is us!

* overly conservative

deepcgi says

You two really don't see that both parties are bloody, no-thought-for-the-long-term, dyed-in-the-wool, Keynesian can kickers.

LOL. Elections come every 2 to 6 years. Of course politicians are can-kickers.

"Keynesian" is just an idiotic content-free conservative slur at this point so it would improve your argument to leave it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_are_all_Keynesians_now

There was a bubble that burst BEFORE the real estate crash which fueled it entirely. It was the Tech stocks bubble.

the tech bubble was symptomatic of global changes, the induction of China into the American capitalist system that got rolling in the mid-1990s, and also the rise of NAFTA trading, etc, and the productivity miracle of the 1980s and 90s.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=AY5

shows corporate profits were on-track to QUADRUPLING in just 10 years, to 1998. Then the Asian Flu hit and things got dicey.

Also, TBTF got rolling in the 1990s, and it failed the first time when stressed in 2001.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=AY7

is financial sector debt to GDP

Ron Paul was right. He's still right.

bullshit. Libertarianism is just letting the rich run everything, even more than they are now. You can't point to a single reform of the libertarian policy that makes a lick of sense now.

What the libertarians want -- disempowering democracy -- is not the answer.

Fixing democracy, especially our democracy with 300 million under-informed, miseducated, and rather retarded people, is an open question, perhaps impossible without further failure of the present system, like what happened in the 1930s when people finally figured out that the business interests and its political party -- the GOP -- had run the country into the ground.

Now business interests took over a large part of the Dems, too, and the Dems had a large hand in running the country into the ground 1980-now.

But note they were in the minority for much of this -- out of power in the executive 1981-1992 and 2000-2008 (20 years), and had lost the Senate for several years of the 1980s, 1994-2001, 2003-2006, and have never had much control of that body given the conservative power brokers of rural (i.e. "red" states). Dems had the House for two whole years over the past 20.

For who fucked things up in the main, you've got to look at the GOP. They're pretty "Keynesian" too, LOL, though what they like spending money on is utterly wasteful of course, bullshit like trillion dollar wars and Medicare Parts B, C, and D, just added complications that boost private profits on what should be a pure socialist health care system, like what the more functional states have, from Singapore to Sweden.

What scares the hell out of me is how high our IQ's are in comparison to the Keynesian economists on whom we rest our burdens of debt.

? This actually doesn't make much sense to me. Keynes appears to be the End Boss bad guy to you, but I suspect you have been programmed by thought-terminating cliches and are therefore no longer capable of independent thought.

Debt is just numbers on a spreadsheet, and for every debt issuer there is a debt buyer. If you follow the money here, you see the true bad guys, and libertarianism offers no defenses against these powers.

Hell, FDR even had a great name for them, malefactors of great wealth. Libertarianism, along with related strains of Bircherism, Austrianism, and whatever Lew Rockwell is involved in, are basically ginned-up defenses of hereditary wealth powers, not actual reformist schools that will improve anything here.

eg.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Reason_Foundation

jazz music says

I don't think liberals can do that ... and they're just frankly boring!

I can tell you the leftish hosts KGO has (or had in the case of that fat catholic guy) on in the late night hours bore(d) me to no end.

Conservatives can offer prescriptions that sound good -- Less Government! More Freedom! Less taxes! You're Smart! Markets Work Best!

It's all bullshit, but people would rather be bullshitted rather than hear the truth about things.

“Occasionally a man stumbles over the truth. Most dust themselves off and continue walking as though nothing had happened.” ― Winston Churchill

Bill:

Fed has been monetizing 85 billion per month for years. Do you think Obama and the Dems are routing any of that to the poor? To the unemployed? To the environment? BS. That money covers the asses of the wealthiest gamblers on earth. The investors who bet HUGE amounts in mortgage-backed securities and lost it all. The Fed buys up that worthless paper and allows your real estate to stay afloat a little while longer.

The Dems have done NOTHING to stem the flow of trillions to only the wealthiest. In fact, on Obama's watch, the amount of monetized debt is more than all of the money that ever existed on earth in Total before he was elected. If the derivative curve does not flatten, before his second term is done, the amount at risk under derivatives will be pushing a quadrillion. Of course the republicans are keynesian too. Weren't you paying attention. They are the same foul bastards as the Dems.

Greenspan's interest rates were sending us into bubble territory at the beginning of 1995 - and we're still there blowing more. None of your dems have done thing about it. They don't even raise a hand politely to question the actions of the Fed (who only act on our behalf of course).

Money with backing rather than fiat paper that is supported only by swelling debt that is only payable in certain currencies is not a new fear stew cooked up by Libertarians. Fiat always fails. And this time you've built your entire home out of it.

5000 years of history says that after Nixon signed away the standard in '71...both parties were complicit in what is about to happen.

My recommendation on what to do about government is to simply tighten your belt and save your money instead of buying worthless crap from China with it. Or overpriced real estate by the way. I guarantee they will get that message. In fact, they'll completely freak out. Our job as American's has simply been to spend every penny we have.

jazz music says

Cook and grow your food too, you'll live a lot longer.

Eat well, exercise daily, reduce stress, have sex, enjoy life, love nature. You will live a lot longer. Have you seen the lines at McDonalds?

Any free-market conservatives ever thumb through Adam Smith?

The amazing thing about dirty immigrants is that they go on welfare and steal our jobs at the same time.

Gosh darn them!

I know how to go on welfare, and how to get a job - both are despicable, dirty acts. But to do both?!

Bastards!

steph says

if anyone believes there is a difference between the right and left you are a fool.

There is a big difference between the left and right. Perhaps you meant to say between the established Democrat and Republican parties?

I'm in favor or American workers.

I am against immigration that doesn't help 1. American workers 2. benefit the USA

I am against abuse of work visa for foreigners program by businesses.

I don't believe in a WORLDWIDE free market for LABOR because this will continue to drive American wages DOWN

If abundant cheap labor were considered a boon to an economy, then Bangladesh, India, China and Mexico would have higher living standards than Norway, Switzerland, Austria and Singapore.

Just 33% of Mexicans have finished high school and are semi-literate in Spanish. There is no reason for us to accept them as immigrants.

The Fed buying a couple trillion in worthless mortgage-backed securities hasn't propped up the real estate market? Want to buy a river in Egypt?

Call it Crazy says

The future of the medical care in this country is fucked with all the medical complications coming from the fat population!!!

Keep avoiding the fat, and keep eating the "Light" extra-sugary corn syrup/corn meal diet crap.

November 2010 is the gift that keeps on giving.

Deal with it.

clambo says

I don't believe in a WORLDWIDE free market for LABOR

So you believe in free markets except when it hurts you?

Got it!

We don't need immigration reform. We need land mines and MG's at the border, along with a immediate death penalty for any illegals caught in the US. I would declare open season on them and pay a bounty on each dead one brought in.

hydrocabron, the USA can't benefit from a worldwide free market in labor.

The reason is that American labor would tend to be paid at the lower worldwide rate.

Most countries also protect their labor markets with strict work visa requirements. I invite you to go to Australia or New Zealand and find work.

Americans need 1. jobs 2. good wages.

Tens of millions of illegal alien foreign workers take 1&2 from Americans.

clambo says

hydrocabron, the USA can't benefit from a worldwide free market in labor.

The reason is that American labor would tend to be paid at the lower worldwide rate.

But businessmen and job creators need lower wages to create wealth for all of us.

The free market makes everyone better off. Read Adam Smith - the father of conservative economics - who showed how the invisible hand produces the most wealth for society.

Call it Crazy says

Unfortunately, what you wrote only applies to maybe 10% of the population...

I just got of off a cruise ship after a week.... approximately 90 PERCENT of the people on that ship were OVERWEIGHT!!! By at least 30 lbs.... This includes many in their 20's, not just the old people!!

Out of that 90 percent, I would say half of them were OBESE!!!!

This country has turned in one large ball of lard!!!

The future of the medical care in this country is fucked with all the medical complications coming from the fat population!!!

If you go to the gym on the ship the only people there are those who don't need to be there.
I go hiking with my dog on the trails by my house almost daily, and most of the hikers and bikers are extremely fit. I do see some regulars who are trying very hard to lose weight, and I have nothing but admiration for them. Even at the local gym those who really need to lose weight don't go there because they are embarrassed. If we can find a way round this we could be on the path to solve the obesity problem.

Hilary is so brain damaged she can't tell a tweetie from a twerk anymore, even with her special glasses, and thinks Obama's teleprompter is smart.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

it contained the face meat of a butchered black baby.

The black baby is a Rove staple: everyone who has ever run against a Bush has fathered a child with a black teenager.

Also, Paul Ryan stabbed an orca at SeaWorld and used the oil to burn thousands of senior citizens alive!

Hilary is so brain damaged, she thinks Bill tells the truth.

clambo says

There are no jobs Americans "won't do", there are wages and conditions Americans
don't like.

Because it's all relative. To a mexican who was making 60 pesos per day back home what they get in america is like manna from the sky. Meanwhile, our american teens refuse to work a cushy job at a mall and would rather be on facebook all day long and millenial college grads boomerang back home and refuse to work jobs that they feel they are too good for out of some misplaced sense of fake superiority.

John Bailo says

he wants as many dependent slave voters to cram in and become plantation
Democrats

I asked it before and I wil ask it again. What prevents the repubs from "competing" for those voters? How can the whole election strategy be so static as to rely perpetually on white male vote which is aging with every passing day?

Well, you have a point Dublin, but American teens can't find summer jobs precisely because those jobs are held by Mexican adults.

On one hand, I agree that perhaps kids are spoiled today. On the other, they are bombarded with bullshit everywhere.

Make no mistake, to a Mexican the wages here are beyond belief.

But, I remember when Americans did everything. A few years ago I went back to visit NYC and went to an "Italian" restaurant downtown.

The grub was OK but the owner was Russian and all the kitchen was Mexicans or other illegals. I will never go back, I'm done with that bullshit.

A Frenchman has a fancy restaurant uptown serving octopus over pasta for $37 a plate. He also has all Mexican workers in the kitchen.

As a matter of pride or stubborness or something, I won't eat at these places but sometimes a rich guy I know invites a few of us out and so I don't refuse.

Adults forget easily that although it's difficult, a teenager working gives him a sense of accomplishment and earning his own money makes him proud.

I worked at a carwash on Saturdays rather than ask my skinfllint father for a dime to get pizza or burgers. I mowed lawns, painted fences, scraped boats, scuba dove to check boat zincs, washed windows, washed dishes, cooked, etc.

None of the kids around today have this opportunity since everyone has a convenient source of Mexicans; just go to Home depot where they hang out.

"White male vote which is aging every day".

Are you one? If so, you have self-loathing issues and should seek help.

If not, you're a racist.

Which is it?

So, your support of illegal alien workers is that they deserve jobs more than the old white men?

Sorry but if you checked it, many of the congressmen and senators are YOUNG white men.

The only immigration reform I want to see is the one that includes border control and penalties for hiring illegals. Not an inch more or less.

This is pretty amazing considering the GOP lost the last election and the one before it because they lack any appeal to immigrants. You would think they had learned a lesson. Apparently not.

The Rep/Con/ Teas don't need an immigration bill. Bush & the Rep/Con Congress secured the border with Mexico,just ask any of the border states. They deported all illegals. Prosecuted all Rep/Con businesses that used illegals with massive fines & long prison sentences.
What's all the talk about a problem that's already solved? roflmao

clambo says

Cost of labor doesn't affect production, it only impacts profits of the owners of the enterprise. Overall wealth produced isn't affected.

Wow.

Let me spell it out for you: higher labor costs are entirely passed on to consumers, resulting in fewer goods sold, and fewer people employed. This has been repeated too many times here at Patrick.net to be a surprise to anyone: All costs (labor, materials, taxes, not dumping mercury in the aquifer, and not murdering kittens) are passed on to the consumer - no hit to profit is ever taken.

Plus, I'm not paying more just to cover the cost of paying employees, who are just union members anyway. People should work for pleasure, and to build character - I would hate to think they are motivated in any way by mammon.

clambo says

Are you one? If so, you have self-loathing issues and should seek help.

If not, you're a racist.

Which is it?

I believe in the "be in this world but not of it" philosophy which if adopted by most people would be a conduit to a post racial society. But this is not the world that we live in now. "Self loathing" in the context of "white privilege" is a rather useless emotion as is "guilt" itself which is based on superego's unconscious need for parental authority and not much else.

clambo says

There are tens of millions of illegal workers in the USA.

Estimate is under 12 million. Nice try.

clambo says

Since the last amnesty did not accomplish anything, or had negative results, it's absurd to repeat it.

Not true -- it resulted in higher GDP and higher wages for educated people.

What people forget is that any current immigration reform proposal includes provisions that would encourage more highly educated/high-earning immigrants to be brought here, which will increase GDP and make us all better off:

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/economic-benefits-immigration-reform

HEY YOU says

Bush & the Rep/Con Congress secured the border with Mexico,just ask any of the border states. They deported all illegals

The Obama administration has deported far more than the Bush administration on a yearly basis.

Without a War on Drugs how will the private prison system survive & think about all the unemployed LEOs.

Fuck! I've got a drug problem. I don't have any!

dublin hillz says

I asked it before and I wil ask it again. What prevents the repubs from "competing" for those voters? How can the whole election strategy be so static as to rely perpetually on white male vote which is aging with every passing day?

Because they have INTEGRITY! Ha!

No, the real issue is that it's hard to stitch together a coalition of racists AND ethnic minorities, all while pretending to be laissez-faire.

See, they believe in free-markets, but it must benefit white people. If it benefits the brown, you're not doing it right.

My Prediction if Numbnuts Bush runs, he'll win on the payback campaign.

I think voters will get a refreshing kick, out of hearing a Bush blame Obama for everything, for the next two Presidential terms.

Every 4 years we get a lot of media time spent trying for stupid vote. I expect nothing different in 2016 either.

If anyone thinks our candidates and presidential parties will act like grown ups, fat chance I tell you! It's only gonna get worse before it gets better.

CL says

Because they have INTEGRITY! Ha!

No, the real issue is that it's hard to stitch together a coalition of
racists AND ethnic minorities, all while pretending to be laissez-faire.

Whereas Democrats are still trying to hold together a coalition of immigrants and blue collar union workers fighting for the same work?

If Republicans had half a brain, they could capture quite a bit of the blue collar union vote over immigration "reform".

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

OK, Hillary is brain damaged.

Santorum has a colostomy bag from too may anal rapings by his gay space alien lovers. He wants to prove otherwise, he'll shit in front of America, live on camera.

Palin has a dick. She us the tweetie, sweetie! Her kids are retards she adopted from a kennel in Wasilla that also took in kids.

McCain took a string of Vietnamese guys as gay lovers in prison.

Romney endorsed SOCIALIZED DEATH PANEL medicine and refused to eat a sandwich simply because it contained the face meat of a butchered black baby.

I thought you were going to make things up.

Were those unfortunate pedophilia/bestiality against a prominent conservative media celebrity ever resolved?

Out of respect for his wife Tania I won't give his name. I don't believe such things are appropriate for gossip here, and are best handled by the courts.

Dan8267 says

I thought you were going to make things up.

In the case of Romney, truth has always been stranger than fiction:

https://lynnrockets.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/will-romney-cop-a-plea-to-impersonating-a-police-officer/

http://theweek.com/article/index/227698/mitt-romneys-1981-arrest-and-4-other-times-he-lost-his-cool

The magic underwear are trivial compared to all that, but his belief that a majority of Americans' religions are abominations was probably unsettling to folks who are accustomed to calling other people abominations, not being called that themselves.

Bad news for Chris Christie: donuts with trans fat cause brain damage.

Sorry, I guess I'm not great at the making stuff up part, I keep linking to actual facts, and besides the GOP is a target rich environment for evidence of brain damage.