patrick.net

tatupu70 says

Wow--this is some first rate revisionist history. The rationale for the Iraq
invasion was to "let the people have more freedom to vote for their own
destiny?" I must have missed that speech from W.

Lucky for us we have The Google to set the revisionists straight. Pay attention to reasons #4, 5 and 6 below.

"The Bush administration's rationale was built around six main themes: Saddam's possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD); the threat Saddam posed to the Middle East; Iraq's links to al Qaeda; Saddam's harsh treatment of the Iraqi people; Iraq's lack of democracy; and the example a free and democratic Iraq would set for authoritarian regimes in the region."

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraq-justifying-war/p7689

I totally understand that we are talking probabilities here. Nothing is certain. What parabolic do you mean in stock market in % per year number. More than 20% lets say for 2015 and 2016?

Your guess on Dow number before it crashes? I know, that's hard to predict. But I am just interested in your guess. I hope I am not putting you here on the spot.You don't have to answer. Don't worry, I am not going to follow 100% your advice. I take all 100% responsibility for my financial decisions.

But, I am learning. Thank you!

bubblesitter says

Housing recovery? It is called recovery when middle class Americans are getting loans suitable to their income and can buy homes in their income range,

So why don't we do that? Middle Class should get credit with Middle of the road FICO's. Instead they want 720+ (above average credit scores), which is preventing any real recovery.
Why are the dumb people in charge?

socal2 says

I think it is pretty clear we changed from a Cold War "Realist" position of supporting the least worst crazy of the bunch for "stability" to a much more aggressive (and utopian) policy of overthrowing dictators and allowing the people to participate in governing their countries.

That is a naive way of looking at it. There is nothing utopian about any of it.

And hey before Edward Snowden, surveillance on a mass scale was considered a conspiracy theory. Until we all found out the truth!

socal2 says

Fuck you guys are dumb.

lol. Look at some of that list. Are you really saying that we went to war because the government of Turkey or Saudi Arabia feared Saddam and wanted him removed from power?? Last I checked, Saudi Arabia was not a democracy--shouldn't we be invading them instead of doing their bidding?

You are hilarious that you think the American people would have ever supported going to war in the hopes that a Middle Eastern country would allow free elections.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Real estate is like a fine wine,

Yep, once you finish the glass you wonder why you didn't just go with the cheap wine that tastes essentially the same and, more importantly, gets you drunk just as fast.

Strategist says

So why don't we do that?

See 2005. We are already at those prices. If the banks decide they want people who can't pay bills in on the 30 year mortgage, they will. They do what they want. If they choose that route again, we will have 2006 and 2007 again. "Recovery" I believe the NAR calls it.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Why should blacks not support Romney? They see the communo-fascist atheist Muslim dystopia the Kenyan has created - they're living in it, same as everybody else. Days spent scrambling for food and water, nights spent blowing oligarchs for antibiotics.

In good old USA government only tells white people to be nice to other races, they don't actually tell other races that.

And politicians are oblivious, because many businesses discriminate against "non-minorities".

JH says

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Real estate is like a fine wine,

Yep, once you finish the glass you wonder why you didn't just go with the cheap wine that tastes essentially the same and, more importantly, gets you drunk just as fast.

Especially after a few glasses.

JH says

Strategist says

So why don't we do that?

See 2005. We are already at those prices. If the banks decide they want people who can't pay bills in on the 30 year mortgage, they will. They do what they want. If they choose that route again, we will have 2006 and 2007 again. "Recovery" I believe the NAR calls it.

Don't you think the mortgage loan standards are excessively tight?

dublin hillz says

Yes, and it's probably due to hipster spillover factor from S.F. Those who get priced out view oaktown as option #2.

No, I was thinking of the Oakland Hills, not priced out hipsters. There's people with gold in dem dare hills.

Heraclitusstudent says

I think any depression will be centered on China - or Japan.

I'm thinking it will be centered on the earth

indigenous says

I'm thinking it will be centered on the earth

Thank you for this important bit of information.

This is a good measure of rich people loose money:

socal2 says

You are apparently missing my point.

The Jihadis hated that the US supported autocratic dictators (Saudis, Egpyt, Jordan, Pakistan....) to keep a lid on their crazies. One of Bin Laden's main stated reasons for attacking us on 9/11 was that we had troops in Saudi Arabia's "holy land" enforcing UN sanctions and the no-fly zone on Iraq.

You didn't bother to read my point apparently. The Jihadis hated the US for supporting dictators who become some of the richest people on the planet while the average person lived in abject poverty. Most of the dictators were cruel, ruthless, and flouted the laws of islam,. These petty tyrants created the fundamentalists. Starting with the shah of Iran who the US directly put into power.

socal2 says

After 9/11, the neocons thought we should kick over the old Cold War order (starting with Iraq) and let the people have more freedom to vote for their own destiny instead of propping up dictators for short term "stability". It has certainly been an ugly process, but you may have noticed that Jihadis have been too busy fighting for power in their own countries and have less time to plot against the US.

This is a joke right? What the neocons wanted was direct control over the second larges oil reserves in the world sitting in one of the most strategic parts of the middle east. No one in a position to do something about it actually gives a crap about people having freedom to vote for their own destiny unless there is something big for the US in it. Plenty of dictators as bad as or worse than Saddam have come and gone but the US hasn't decided to bring democracy to their countries that lacked oil. There are 24 beers in a case and 24 hours in a day. Coincidence I think not.

socal2 says

"The Bush administration's rationale was built around six main themes: Saddam's possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD); the threat Saddam posed to the Middle East; Iraq's links to al Qaeda; Saddam's harsh treatment of the Iraqi people; Iraq's lack of democracy; and the example a free and democratic Iraq would set for authoritarian regimes in the region."

You got the quote wrong. It should read the Bush administration's talking points for selling the war to the ameriican public.

tatupu70 says

lol. Look at some of that list. Are you really saying that we went to war because the government of Turkey or Saudi Arabia feared Saddam and wanted him removed from power??

I'm saying it was one of the MANY reasons publicly argued by Bush and the Congress to justify liberating Iraq.

Call it Crazy says

Don't you think the mortgage loan standards are excessively tight?

Why do you keep asking the same question??? Loan standards are NOT tight... They are the same as they've always been for decades (except for those few years in the run up to the bubble with NINJA loans)..

The problem ISN'T tight standards. The problem is people with crappy credit scores, bad payment history, no down payments, high current debt loads and shaky employment...

Got it yet???

My dear friend,
They are tight, very tight. Loan programs that were around for decades no longer exist, like stated income, sub-prime, and negative amortization loans. A lot of these loans are ideal for the self employed, those going through a temporary crisis, and those who have income that come in spurts.
In addition, those with 600 FICO's were considered "A" paper, and qualified for A paper rates as long as the other requirements were acceptable, no longer can get loans.
All of above are not the NINJA loans that created meltdown in 2008. I got my first home in OC, while I was still a student in 1986. (I was almost done) I got it with a stated income, negative amortization loan. The down payment requirement was 25% minimum, which I got from my parents. I fully paid off that loan at the start of 2000, and now my elderly parents live there.
I would not have had that home if it was not for the stated income, negative amortization loan. There are so many people who want to buy homes with these programs, who have 25% down but cannot. They are not a bad risk.
All I ask for is to go back to the pre NINJA era, and provide the same loan programs with the same requirements. Why is that bad?

Call it Crazy says

A 25% down payment gave the bank a decent cushion in case you defaulted...

Loan officer just told my neighbor that larger down payments actually make some lenders leery, because they now factor in a likelihood of squatting if you lose your job.

If you have only 5-10% in the game, you're less likely to kick and scream on your way out of the house. Apparently the statistics back this up.

There are actually loans you can get with 5% down which are harder to get with 20% down.

Call it Crazy says

Many banks don't allow borrowed down payments anymore either. You need to prove that it was YOUR funds and show months of records of where it came from.

Stop living in the past... The banks got burned big time on your type of loans... They won't come back unless the banks REALLY get desperate

Well it is people too. I myself moved out of CA to a nasty weather state-primarily because of house prices. No way on earth could I justify 800-900k for a house in a burb that looked like every other house on the street or the next street. But so many people I know have no qualms of buying it. Quite a few people have no qualms about defaulting and stay free for years.

The gubmnt has mad people entitled and lazy and has made hard working people responsible for everyone else's welfare. As a result a huge number of people growing up with no concept of personal responsibility. Buy a 3/4th of million dollar home with zero down when you are making 17k a year like that illegal immigrant strawberry picker in Gilroy-blame the evil bankers or the 1%. Nobody needs to take responsibility for anything anymore-it is always someonelse's fault and somebody has to pay for it. Usually it is the hard working sap who is forced to support an increasing number of bums-weather that be ex wife/husband who did not contribute anything and just spent all your money or the whore down the street who had ten babies with ten different men.

Strategist says

Why are the dumb people in charge?

Let me guess, cuz someone voted for them.

Call it Crazy says

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Loan officer just told my neighbor that larger down payments actually make some lenders leery, because they now factor in a likelihood of squatting if you lose your job.

Very few are putting 25% or more down, so I don't think that's a big issue.. I know many who squatted for years with a 3.5% FHA... It was the best ROI they ever had on any investment!!!

Almost half are paying all cash. Lots of pent up demand with 25% down.

Strategist says

I got my first home in OC, while I was still a student in 1986.

Interest rates were in the 10% range then AND prices were accordingly very low. I imagine your house was in the low 100s? If so, the inflation factor doubles its value yet it now costs 400 to 500k. (If it cost more before...the math is the same.)

Lending now IS easier. No stated income bullshit is not allowed but look at those interest rates!!!!! If you have paid your bills for the past 7 years, banks are inviting you to take on a 30 yr commitment to pay your bills to them...at very low rates. If you cannot pay your bills on time then you are welcome to an FHA loan at a higher rate and PMI. STILL LOWER APR THAN IN 1986!!!!!!

It's all Obama's fault!!!

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

The down payment requirement was 25% minimum, which I got from my parents.

Many banks don't allow borrowed down payments anymore either. You need to prove that it was YOUR funds and show months of records of where it came from.

Not entirely sure where you're getting this. The loan/gift from parents might need to be a structured a particular way, but I know a number of people who have bought a place this way in the last few months alone.

corntrollio says

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

The down payment requirement was 25% minimum, which I got from my parents.

Many banks don't allow borrowed down payments anymore either. You need to prove that it was YOUR funds and show months of records of where it came from.

Not entirely sure where you're getting this. The loan/gift from parents might need to be a structured a particular way, but I know a number of people who have bought a place this way in the last few months alone.

Who knows what the loan people did, but I lied through my teeth.
That loan was a negative amortization loan with a start rate of 7.95%. It was an incredible bargain at the time. 1year t bill, margin of 2.45%. Today, that rate would be less then 3%.
I would lie through my teeth again. They do say - "want to succeed in business? CHEAT"

bubblesitter says

Strategist says

Why are the dumb people in charge?

Let me guess, cuz someone voted for them.

Don't blame me, I drive a Prius. We're supposed to be smart.

control point says

"Highly Educated" white went for Obama. Obama won the top 16 states by educational attainment, and 18 of the top 20.

http://boingboing.net/2012/11/11/what-the-election-map-would-ha.html

My wife is Ukrainian and grateful for what Obama has done to help keep Putin from running over the country. While many Ukrainians look to Poland's example for how to improve their country, many are asking whether they want to join the EU and wind up with the ethnic and cultural genocide and suicide that Western Europe is engaging in.

This is actually what the Russian protesters there are saying and they have a point.

But... I point out to her, by the time Ukraine would gain entry into the EU, by then the Euro should be dead and also as "diversity" benefits cause Sharia law to take over in certain regions, the cultural suicide issue should start to rear its head and perhaps Ukraine will be able to take a stand on avoiding becoming a welfare state for anti-European immigrants.

I certainly will be able to move there if I desire. You all, on the other hand, better be prepared to live in Oakland.

FortWayne says

In good old USA government only tells white people to be nice to other races, they don't actually tell other races that.

True, they just put them in prison instead.

FortWayne says

And politicians are oblivious, because many businesses discriminate against "non-minorities".

Yes, that's getting to be a serious problem. For example, if a white guy wants to make a hip hop CD, the doors might not be as open to him as if he were black.

This is getting out of hand.

(note to dodgerfandimbulb: that's what sarcasm looks like (i.e. the part where I said "this is getting out of hand"))

marcus says

FortWayne says

In good old USA government only tells white people to be nice to other races, they don't actually tell other races that.

True, they just put them in prison instead.

More liberal apologist made up BS.

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Wednesday, June 4, 2014 __ Level is 105.4

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes! This was in the New York Times on August 27, 2006:

And up to date (by me) is here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

And "ThePublic Be Suckered"
http://patrick.net/?p=1230886

FortWayne says

More liberal apologist made up BS.

An exaggeration perhaps, to make a point. But it's based on facts, that you either can not or will not comprehend.

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Please forgive me for bringing facts in to the conversation.

marcus says

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Please forgive me for bringing facts in to the conversation.

I know, I heard that a lot of blacks get arrested. But a lot more blacks commit crimes than whites.

Turn on your television, white people, or well off blacks are watching Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil learning how to live in a functional society and be good people. While poor blacks are watching BET and listening to gangster rappers which celebrate robbing, killing, and selling drugs.

And that's a cultural difference, and until black people evolve on a mass scale and learn to live within the laws of the land, they are going to be more of them in jail.

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Who knows what the loan people did, but I lied through my teeth.

And you want to bring that same loan structure back to "help" the recovery....

No wonder your wife says your irresponsible...

Well, I succeeded, didn't I?
I tell my kids I never do these things. he he he. I'm such a scumbag.

Strategist says

I would lie through my teeth again. They do say - "want to succeed in business? CHEAT"

You ain't the only one, carry on. Hell, our commanders in chief do it on TV in front of the entire country.

With style..…: http://youtu.be/Z5lbbOzka5I

Are you sure 50% we're just made up to get the last minute numbers that happened.
It literally went from a complete failure a few weeks before deadline to meeting the sign up expectation.

What difference does it make now??

komputodo says

Wouldn't the statement "505,000 have issues with immigration data" mean that illegals don't qualify for obamacare?

hrhjuliet says

With style..…: http://youtu.be/Z5lbbOzka5I

I would still rather see him assassinated by immense hirsute lesbians dancing and sword fighting with knobby strap ons. They could squish a few of the male dancers, too, that would be real spectacle.

I guess I am just a traditionalist.

Rosa Klebb style, old school!

Ceffer says

assassinated by immense hirsute lesbians dancing and sword fighting with knobby strap ons. They could squish a few of the male dancers, too, that would be real spectacle.

I guess I am just a traditionalist.

This sounds like a dream sequence from a Ken Russell film.