patrick.net

Entitlemented says

On the propaganda, name one item that you can logically dismiss using past historicals or logical induction.

You attributed massive cause and effect where there is no evidence of it's existance other than in your imagination or the imagination of right wing boobs.

And you want to talk about logical induction ? Nice try.

Entitlemented says

8) Obama does nothing in Syria. Russia sees this and goes into Ukraine.

9) Korea sees this and tests missiles frequently

10) China sees this and is trying to gain islands around their sea in conflict with Japan, Vietnam etc.

11) The complete lack of foreign policy, the fast withdrawals is saying to all communists (or wish they were ) countries that we are losing our will, and so with that Europe as well.

bgamall4 says

My parents and the greatest generation admired FDR.

I am not rewriting history. Reagan admired FDR too. Who admired him and for how long doesn't detract from the man's record.

Try this book- New Deal or Raw Deal? How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America
Burton Folsom, Jr.

bgamall4 says

smaulgld says

One way of doing it is to ditch the FDIC.

The plan of Larry Summers is a cashless society. That would force you to put your money in the bank or spend it. They could have negative interest rates. How well would getting rid of FDIC work in that bankster NWO scenario? You sound like Mish.

If the FDIC goes, just put your money under the mattress, until they force you to do otherwise.

I don't think it will force people to put their money in mattresses. It may force banks to start banking responsibly- ie serving their customers without which they would not be in business.

The banks' customers today are not the depositors but the government- they buy and sell their bonds, underwrite their states and cities' bonds and count on the federal government to bail them out.

smaulgld says

How well would getting rid of FDIC work in that bankster NWO scenario?

It would take away a guaranteed protection the TBTF banks have. The creation of the FDIC was a government program designed in the 1930's to get the masses comfortable again with putting money back into the "NWO banks". Without the government insurance people would have put money elsewhere outside that banking system.

bgamall4 says

The alternative would have been much worse.

Who knows. The biggest problem with economics is there are so many variable and it is impossible to do A/B testing

smaulgld says

You sound like Mish

and sometimes I sound like you!

Call it Crazy says

On December 16, 1998 President Bill Clinton ordered an attack on Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors. Clinton said, "Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people. And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them. Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future."

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html

Whoa - wait a minute, are you suggesting it Clintons fault?

mell says

Where would you put Ron Paul in this matrix? Or Bernie Sanders? Dennis Kucinich?

the fact that these rather anti-war politicians are extreme fringe who have zero ability to win national office -- our pro-war media and general (if latent) pro-war socio-political bias

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/naturally_the_common_people_don-t_want_war/339098.html

underscores the point that the fault is largely in ourselves, not our politicians.

LBJ got stampeded into eventually sending half a million troops into Vietnam via this dynamic of not being able to afford, politically, to look "weak" on "defense" aka national security.

And this fault is not a flaw of liberal thought, it is conservatives banging on the war gong every. chance. they. get, per the Goering quote above.

The only exception to this is the pro-German Establishment in the 1930s -- W's grandfather's clique who wanted to stay out of WW I and WW II prior to PH.

But even Lindbergh flew missions against Japan, LOL.

In 2002 the public polling was curious; 1/3 of the country had a hard-on for "taking Saddam out", 1/3 was strongly against it, and 1/3 was in the mushy middle that was willing to go along if the action had UN sanction, etc.

This last group largely shifted into the first group once Bush sent in our troops anyway, without the UN pre-approval, just the "Coalition of the Willing", Blair, Spain, Portugal, and, let's not forget, Poland.

http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2007/stories/20030411004911500.htm

marcus says

Entitlemented says

8) Obama does nothing in Syria. Russia sees this and goes into Ukraine.

Proganda or observation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-obamas-weakness-emboldens-putin/2014/03/03/28def926-a2e2-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

NBC News - Proganda or observing and reporting?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/e-u-deeply-concerned-over-north-korea-nuclear-test-reports-n122121

Hagel will not stand by and let China break international border treaties:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-06-02/news/50272367_1_south-china-sea-prime-minister-shinzo-abe-japan

Ladies Gentlemen - this is not propaganda or rhetoric - its actually happening. Wake up O'Crats!

Why are you recycling exactly the same point you made earlier in the thread? In response to that earlier post I said:

You stated 9 and 10 occurred as a consequence of 8. North Korea has been testing missiles and threatening the development of nuclear weapons for how long? And disputes over the Senkaku islands have been going on for decades. So yes, to claim those are down to the very good idea of not getting directly drawn into military action in Syria is really rather stretching it, wouldn't you say?

You never replied...

Entitlemented says

Proganda or observation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-obamas-weakness-emboldens-putin/2014/03/03/28def926-a2e2-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

Most educated people with an IQ over 80 would call it an opinion piece by a right winger who used to write speeches for GWB.

Entitlemented says

NBC News - Proganda or observing and reporting?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/e-u-deeply-concerned-over-north-korea-nuclear-test-reports-n122121

You can't be that stupid. The news part is that Korea was increasing nuclear tests. The propaganda part is when retards try to attribute it to the way Obama handled the Syria decision.

Entitlemented says

Hagel will not stand by and let China break international border treaties:

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-06-02/news/50272367_1_south-china-sea-prime-minister-shinzo-abe-japan

Ladies Gentlemen - this is not propaganda or rhetoric - its actually happening. Wake up O'Crats!

Again, it's your insane attribution of cause and effect that is propaganda.

Entitlemented says

8) Obama does nothing in Syria. Russia sees this and goes into Ukraine.

9) Korea sees this and tests missiles frequently

10) China sees this and is trying to gain islands around their sea in conflict with Japan, Vietnam etc.

11) The complete lack of foreign policy, the fast withdrawals is saying to all communists (or wish they were ) countries that we are losing our will, and so with that Europe as well.

Call it Crazy says

They are the SAME, just at different levels... The sooner you wake up and understand that both parties are different sides to the same coin, the better off you'll be....

And that boys and girls is the red pill.

Call it Crazy says

But a few years later, when a Repub president does the same thing for the same reason as the Dem president with the support of MANY high ranking Dems in congress, they are evil....

Sigh. On what planet are those two things the same?

Call it Crazy says

They are the SAME, just at different levels... The sooner you wake up and understand that both parties are different sides to the same coin, the better off you'll be....

You can argue the merits of the two very different military decisions or the lack thereof, but you can't possibly say 'they are the same, just at different levels.'

Every single one of those ideas proposed by the Rollingstone article sounds horrible:

If you don't like your boss? How about having a government bureaucrat as your boss and you can not quit your job because that's the job the bureaucracy assigns you?

If you don't like your parents? How about it is the government bureaucrat as your parent giving you allowance and enforcing curfew and urine test?

If you don't like your landlord? How about it is the government bureaucrat as your landlord? Doing annual inspections of the interior of your house keeping and assigning you where to live? Better make sure you are cute or at least have a cute daughter to sleep with the man doing the assignment.

The advantage of capitalistic free market place is that individuals can express his/her own desires via private money allocation. Sometimes that process is perverted by concentration of power (usually due to government enforced privileges). How would outright government monopoly make life better for the average little people? The article sounds like outright advocacy for plantation slavery of the early 19th century, known in the 20th as communist communes (everybody owns everything and nothing): free food, free clothing, free housing, free education, free medicine and guaranteed jobs . . . All at the discretion of the great leader.

"understand that both parties are different sides to the same coin"

The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. These become the start and finish of any ideological analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism#Thought-terminating_clich.C3.A9

You could short car rental companies. Very often they are in competition with taxi. If there is pressure on taxi fares, there should be pressure on car rental prices.

Hertz - PE of 38 on 11.7B in sales. 12.83B market cap, 20B in car inventory (probably worth less), and 16B in debt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIwnAs4iwaE&feature=kp

Hitching a ride isnt like the most innovative thing made these days.

sbh says

Or you could short the whole of Europe because the strikes in anticipation of this will bring everything to a halt.

Alot of people in Europe dont take taxis, you will find many hitchhike.

Bellingham Bill says

The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.

Like trickle down economics?

Bigsby says

It should be of grave international concern when such dictators attempt to develop and/or use WMD. All political and economic sanctions available should be brought to bear with the potential for very limited military action under extraordinary circumstances. Mass ground invasions should not be considered.' Yes, yes, that sounds more like it, most especially because we bloody know that the consequences of the invasion were disastrous.

Your above description is what is called cowardly. Look up the definition.... a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.

"should not" be considered according to who ... Some pacifist no doubt.

Clearly we had courage to go after Germany even though they did not attack us. That war too was eventual to happen involving the USA.. be it Roosevelt, Truman, or whoever.

bgamall4 says

Reality says

The advantage of capitalistic free market place is that individuals can express his/her own desires via private money allocation.

Bullcrap. The cabal controls the money.

Central Bank is not a capitalistic free market institution. It is in fact a Marxist institution, as in Plank #5 in The Communist Manifesto of 1849, written by Karl Marx himself:

"5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly."

In the Great Depression, there was no money at the consumer level. You had massive deflation and a credit crisis. That is why FDR had to step in.

No he did not have to step in. Nor did Hoover before him. The market would have found clearing prices just like it had done during the 1921-22 depression. Hoover and FDR's interventionist policies turned a depression into The Great Depression. Ironically, FDR had run on a platform of undoing Hoover's interventionist policies. He did the exact opposite after being elected.

Now the money is looser, but the wealthy control all the markets and prices of those commodities, houses, etc.

Why should that be a surprise? The central bank is designed to hand money out to the extremely wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

So, Obama could be a great man and step in like FDR, but he is a New World Order pussy.

Obama did not have his own power base like FDR with governorship previously. In any case, even FDR turned into a supercharged Hoover, just like Obama turned into a Bush on steroids.

You guys know why Hoover lost? Because his treasury secretary, Andrew Mellon, believed in percolation, ie TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS.

Andrew Mellon served as Treasury Secretary for nearly 11 years whereas Hoover was only President for 4years. Before Hoover even took office, Andrew Mellon already served as Treasury Secretary under Harding and Coolidge, with extremely successful economic policies, including the rapid recovery after the 1921-22 depression. Too bad Hoover did not take Mellon's advice to let the market clear, like it did during the sharp but short depression of 1921-22.

He was a bankster/libertarian. There are a lot of those.

At least he was not a bankster/Communist.

thomaswong.1986 says

"should not" be considered according to who ... Some pacifist no doubt.

Try international law...

And Germany were allied with Japan you absolute plum. And you had the courage to go after Germany, did you? I didn't know you were that old. And as I recall, the British had already spent a few years fighting Germany before the US entered the war. But hey, let's not bother with history. And irrespective of all that, it's fucking laughable that you are trying to draw a parallel between WWII and Iraq.

komputodo says

Supersize the fuck out of them

KSA is way ahead of you . . .

komputodo says

I think we should build McDonald’s all over the Middle East (make them like BUFFETS, all you can eat)... Supersize the fuck out of them..Get them fat and lazy.... Also a 24/7 broadcast of "Keeping up with the Kardashians" to throw them off their game.

You've obviously never been to the Middle East...

Bellingham Bill says

komputodo says

Supersize the fuck out of them

KSA is way ahead of you . . .

I have wondered whether KFC would be a more effective army to send into a conflict than the PLO, SLA, ETA, FARC, PKK, IRA, UVF, TANG, or VC.

Bellingham Bill says

KSA is way ahead of you . . .

The inbreeding for the past 1400 years will eventually kill them...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/01/international/middleeast/01GENE.html

Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh.

Disturbing: Inbreeding is a huge problem in the Muslim world

Muslim culture still practices inbreeding and has been doing so for the better part of 1400 years. Consanguineous marriages were originally sanctioned by Islam’s prophet Muhammed, who had a very liberal view on men’s sexual relationships. In addition his many sex slaves, he married several cousins, the divorced wife of his own adopted son and the six year old Aisha, with whom he had sex with when she was nine.

A rough estimate shows that close to half of the world’s Muslims are inbred as a result of consanguineous marriages. In Pakistan, 70 percent of all marriages are between first cousins – children of siblings – and in Turkey the share is 25-30 percent.

Statistical research on Arabic countries indicates that up to 34 percent of all marriages in Algeria are blood-related as are 46 percent in Bahrain, 33 percent in Egypt, 80 percent in Nubia (the southern part of Egypt), 60 percent in Iraq, 64 percent in Jordan, 64 percent in Kuwait, 42 percent in Lebanon, 48 percent in Libya, 47 percent in Mauritania, 54 percent in Qatar, 67 percent in Saudi Arabia, 63 percent in Sudan, 40 percent in Syria, 39 percent in Tunisia, 54 percent in the United Arabic Emirates and 45 percent in Yemen. According to Dr. Nadia Sakati of King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh, 45 percent of married Arab couples are blood-related. . The fact that many of these couples are themselves children of blood-related parents increases the risk of negative consequences.

Bigsby says

You've obviously never been to the Middle East...

Kissing cousins... they are all mental cases...

Global Inbreeding

Researchers who study inbreeding track consanguineous marriages—those between second cousins or closer. In green countries, at least 20 percent and, in some cases, more than 50 percent of marriages fall into this category. Pink countries report 1 to 10 percent consanguinity; peach-colored countries, less than 1 percent. Data is unavailable for white countries.

Call it Crazy says

I agree...

*

and where would one find this mythical informed conservative?

I don't see any difference at all between the liberal arguments playbook and the conservative arguments playbook except the word bush instead of obama.

thomaswong.1986 says

Bigsby says

You've obviously never been to the Middle East...

Kissing cousins... they are all mental cases...

Global Inbreeding

Researchers who study inbreeding track consanguineous marriages—those between second cousins or closer. In green countries, at least 20 percent and, in some cases, more than 50 percent of marriages fall into this category. Pink countries report 1 to 10 percent consanguinity; peach-colored countries, less than 1 percent. Data is unavailable for white countries.

I take it you gave up on trying to defend your other bullshit and decided to go off on a tangent. And you're supposed to reference other people's comments, though of course I'm sure nobody would take that information as being in your own words.

Call it Crazy says

I'm sure the relatives of the dead innocent Iraqis say it's different to die from a cruise missile sent by Clinton versus a cruise missile sent by Bush and they would agree with you...

I'm sure they wouldn't, but then again there were more than a hundred thousand civilians killed under the latter President...

Bigsby says

I take it you gave up on trying to defend your other bullshit and decided to go off on a tangent.

What tangent, they are all mental cases. You cant reason with a rabies infected wild dogs. Since you have a vested interest to protect, they certainly do not include the interests of the West nations.

Bigsby says

I'm sure they wouldn't, but then again there were more than a hundred thousand civilians killed under the latter President...

Inflated numbers... based on some door to door survey and not body count.

Frankly if we killed 25-30K bad guys.. great news for the good guys.. all the better they were killed, no one needs some bloody Middle East killers walking the earth.

What's "Bush's fault" is this:

our collective debt-to-GDP ratio.

This is an artifact of his personal war-mongering 2001-2003, by now having costed us up n the trillions (!) -- this alone may in fact prove to be an expense that will eventually kill this nation as a going concern.

And also the 2001-2003 tax cuts that were an immense give-back to the top 5% who are already taking so much out of the paycheck economy though their successful rent-seeking and collective ownership of corporate america.

And also his administration standing aside as the real estate industry manufactured the mother of all housing bubbles, 2003-2007.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=DVd

annual consumer debt take-on to wages, how fast households were borrowing money.

His SCOTUS and other judicial appointments have generally directed the nation down the shithole, too, e.g. finding an individual right to self defense in the 2nd Amendment (!), throwing back campaign finance limitations.

The damage Bush and his crew did to the US is simply soul-killing, if conservatives were honest they'd be able to see this too.

As for the racism thing, to paraphrase JS Mill, it's not that all conservatives are racists, it's all racists are conservative; the conservative coalition is a collection of some pretty ugly parts of our polity; its got-mine fuck-you "fiscal-conservative" contingent is rather innocuous by comparison.

Bellingham Bill says

This is an artifact of his personal war-mongering 2001-2003

As if the attack on our nation in 2001 was all Bush fault....

Yes War costs money... how else do you put a bullet in the head of some

crazed inbreed middle east terrorist and the armies who protect them ...

Bellingham Bill says

As for the racism thing, to paraphrase JS Mill, it's not that all conservatives are racists, it's all racists are conservative; the conservative coalition

you of all people who lived in Japan should know what Racism truely is.

Would you like an introduction to Civil Rights Act of 1956 during Republican president.

And that would be the one Kennedy was against because " it was too soon".

thomaswong.1986 says

Bigsby says

I take it you gave up on trying to defend your other bullshit and decided to go off on a tangent.

What tangent, they are all mental cases. You cant reason with a rabies infected wild dogs. Since you have a vested interest to protect, they certainly do not include the interests of the West nations.

I have a vested interest to protect, do I? What might that be? Perhaps sanity in the face of the inane blatherings coming from ThomasUtterlyWrong.

thomaswong.1986 says

Bigsby says

I'm sure they wouldn't, but then again there were more than a hundred thousand civilians killed under the latter President...

Inflated numbers... based on some door to door survey and not body count.

Frankly if we killed 25-30K bad guys.. great news for the good guys.. all the better they were killed, no one needs some bloody Middle East killers walking the earth.

Really? Try googling it. You will find that is the conservative estimate. And we are talking innocent civilians here you complete and utter moron.

Call it Crazy says

I'm sure the relatives of the dead innocent Iraqis say it's different to die from a cruise missile sent by Clinton versus a cruise missile sent by Bush

The breadth of your "But [Obama|Clinton] do it too" arguments is impressive.

I look forward to Smaulgld chastising you for making this sort of argument, which he frowns upon - but something tells me that in your case he won't comment.