patrick.net

T L Lips says

EXCEPT he's released millions upon millions of documents and has yet to have been duped by an fraudulent one.

I don't know if he's been duped or not. There's no proof of his record. Plus, comparing him to a news organization that regularly publishes on all newsworthy topics is silly. Assange publishes on a tiny subset of 'news' that he has access to. In addition, if no one has tried to dupe him into publishing fake news, it's only a matter of time. Does he have examples where someone tried to dupe him and he figured it out? Why should we suspect he has a better handle on the source of the leaked info than the CIA/FBI etc?

Here's the proof:

States all over the world have had their dirty laundry aired by Wikileaks. They have every incentive to find any leaked document that is fraudulent, so thy can say "Aha, one document out of millions was fraudulent. Now anything Wikileaks puts out is suspect."

It hasn't happened.

YesYNot says

The vast majority of women perform at minimum 200% of work at home then men.

Because unlike the FBI/CIA, Wikileaks has a perfect record, and doesn't have a boss over him who wants him to push a particular narrative.

Ironman says

Please give us the list of people who have been prosecuted an have gone to jail since 2008.

I'm sure that list is extremely long....

We had a freaking Wall Street criminal as Treasury Secretary. But is is bad PR.

I'll spell out my argument for you.
Corruption is bad, especially when politicians commit it.
They should be policed.
The fact that the politicians were able to easily cancel their oversight means that it wasn't strong enough to do its job.
We need more effective oversight.

Quigley says

I'll spell out my argument for you.

Corruption is bad, especially when politicians commit it.

They should be policed.

The fact that the politicians were able to easily cancel their oversight means that it wasn't strong enough to do its job.

We need more effective oversigh

Yup and trump agrees. I think the GOP base hates the GOP congress critters more than they hate dems and have been trying several seasons to try and bring in soem new blood and egt rid of the corrupt trash. Wish the dems would wake up-Bernie was clsoe, but the dems need the same energy, the same questioning. Then finally we will realize that on most important things dems/repubs are probably aligned 95% -jobs, economy etc-the remaining stuff we cna figure out. United we stand, divided we fall.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/trump-blasts-idiot-gop-leaders-focus-tax-reform-healthcare-not-ethics-watchdog/

I didn't say anything about the vast majority of women doing anything. There appears to be a glitch in the matrix. As for Assange, the absence of objections is not proof that something is true. I suspect his record is good. But, people have an incentive not to go through and confirm or deny information piece by piece.

Oops

YesYNot says

But, people have an incentive not to go through and confirm or deny information piece by piece.

Wikileaks puts out the stuff only after serious vetting. That's why the time between receiving source material and publishing the leaks is weeks and months.

Maybe the FBI/CIA should put out the server 'evidence' and have 1000s of highly competent independent experts weigh in.

Quigley says

We don't like old guard republicans any more than we like democrats, and we look forward to working with democrats who actually represent the people and not the plutocrats. The old two parties are being destroyed or subsumed. The democrats are self destructing in an orgy of ridiculousness. The republicans have been infected with the Trump parasite that is slowly purging the elitism from the party until the organism can be ready to MAGA.

This move by the congress is just elite GOPers pushing back against popular will.

They will be reigned in.

The thing the Republicans don't realize is that they have something very much in common with the Democrats: they lost the 2016 election.

This seems to be the case. It'll be interesting to see the Media attempt to lionize the old guard GOPe when they offer resistance to Trump's reforms, esp. on Trade and possibly Corporate Inversions. They've already done so by celebrating Bushite support for Hillary.

May the 6th/7th Political System be inaugurated, least we remain trapped in the culture war BS.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/after-backlash-house-gop-backs-down-from-plan-to-gut-ethics-office-172736628.htmlegas-170017907.html

And The GOPe rethinks their move after Trump jerks their chain.

Trump put those fuckers back in place. All of your corruptions is reserved for the executive branch. Thank you for your concern.

Should Obama attend all his PDBs, too?

Given that he is still President, with all the terror attacks around the world?

Here's the WaPo defending Obama not having an in-person briefing every day:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-bogus-claim-that-obama-skips-his-intelligence-briefings/2012/09/22/100cb63e-04fc-11e2-8102-ebee9c66e190_blog.html?utm_term=.e448deb93f30

In other words, Trump is reading some of the briefings instead of having it in-person. Other times Pence is going. When Obama reads instead of goes, that's okay. But when Trump, who is not even President yet, reads instead of attends, that's irresponsibility.

"Oh, but Pence isn't POTUS." Well neither is Trump yet, but according to WaPo's Fact Checker :

That column also includes the White House’s response — that Obama reads his PDB every day, but he does not always require an in-person briefing every day. The White House argument is that this is how Obama structured his White House operation, so it is specious to say he has “skipped” a meeting that was not actually scheduled.

Looks like the WaPo forgot to consult their own Fact Checkers. Wouldn't be Confirmation Bias at all, Amirite?

How's the Vermont Power Grid Russian Hack going?

Well, I'm certain we aren't trying to hack them. At least we take the high road.

This thread has more levels of deception than a 7 layer bean dip. Just off the top of my head:

There are just as many reports claiming Russia had nothing to do with any hacking as reports stating they did.
Obama has spent 8 years playing golf, and doing jack shit, now that he's almost out he should act?
The CIA has rigged more elections/puppet dictators than Russia, maybe a dose of our own medicine should teach us to leave other countries alone.

And the biggest problem, truth cares not what false dichotomies you subscribe to, only the facts. And the facts are the above, wouldn't matter who was about to be president, they wouldn't change.

T L Lips says

Wikileaks puts out the stuff only after serious vetting.

This is the assertion that Wikileaks and supporters keep on making. I've not seen any description of said vetting.T L Lips says

That's why the time between receiving source material and publishing the leaks is weeks and months.

Between the release right before the DNC convention and the release right before the election, I believe that they were blatantly timing the releases for maximum political effect. That's not the sign of a neutral third party and the long delay that was required for this timing is not proof of serious vetting.

YesYNot says

This is the assertion that Wikileaks and supporters keep on making. I've not seen any description of said vetting

Again, Wikileaks has made a nuisance of itself from Qatar to the USA to the Caymans to Panama to Germany to Russia (inc. Putin) to China.

If any actor could prove one document false, they could then dismiss all future (and some past) Wikileaks leaks as fraudulent.

Don't think for a moment EVERYTHING wikileaks puts out is vetted by their Secretive Anti-Transparency Opposition and Intelligence Agencies worldwide, each with their own axe to grind.

YesYNot says

Between the release right before the DNC convention and the release right before the election, I believe that they were blatantly timing the releases for maximum political effect. That's not the sign of a neutral third party and the long delay that was required for this timing is not proof of serious vetting.

Assange never said they were timed for any other reason.

It was to stop the MSM for covering it for a cycle or two, and then forgetting about it. Each tranche of leaks had so much vital information, they felt it needed the attention of coming out in pieces rather than all at once.

The Washington Post would be well served by consulting their own fact checkers before unloading on Trump, and certainly before accusing the Russians of hacking a Vermont Utility.

Amazing to see how many liberals don't give two shits about transparency when they are their team is the 'victim' of it.

YesYNot says

Trump put those fuckers back in place. All of your corruptions is reserved for the executive branch. Thank you for your concern.

Give him a break: He's just not accustomed yet to the idea that he's setting the standard on how low every politicians in the country can stoop.
As a business man he could loot and abuse while everyone else was forced to just do their work.

Yup.

"Trump is revealing state secrets by tweeting about a Briefing on Russian Hacking" - tomorrow's headlines.

As if anybody with half a brain wouldn't have figured it would feature in his briefings at some point in the near future, if it hadn't already.

it is going to be delayed until the 20th. Useless's laywers will present the "evidence" in a bunch of suitcases filled with toilet paper.

Same things that Bush left to Obama.

Ironman says

CNSNews.com) - The federal debt climbed by more than a trillion dollars during 2016, according to data released today by the U.S. Treasury.

On Dec. 31, 2015, the last business day of 2015, the federal debt was $18,922,179,009,420.89. On Dec. 30, 2016, the last business day of 2016, it was $19,976,826,951,047.80.

(Damn, he didn't get it up to $20,000,000,000,000 before he left)

The one-year increase in the federal debt during calendar year 2016 was therefore $1,054,647,941,626.91.

And what does he have to show for it? A slow and lethargic economy.
Thanks for nothing.

Like the other Democrat president in the last 36 years, Obama continuously lowered the deficit. Like all republicans in the last 36 years, Trump will make the deficit grow and increase the speed at which we take on debt. The streak will be extended to 40 years. Yay!

YesYNot says

Like the other Democrat president in the last 36 years, Obama continuously lowered the deficit. Like all republicans in the last 36 years, Trump will make the deficit grow and increase the speed at which we take on debt. The streak will be extended to 40 years. Yay!

It's OK to have deficit spending if we get a healthy economy. Obama failed.

It's all Obama's fault!!!

All those rapefugees Obama imported cost money! Welfare is expensive!

Ironman says

The increase paralleled increases in those seeking a license to carry a concealed weapon.

I can't find the word license in the 2nd Amendment?
These are the trash that will destroy america.
These are the same COWARDS that aren't fighting ISIS overseas to protect america.
WANNA be COWBOYS!

Assholes allowed NATO to move to the RUSSIAN border.
Now shoot down Cluster Bomb NUCLEAR ICBMs with your bullet shooter.
Stupids aren't immune to Nuclear War.

One would think that the gun companies would have wanted Hillary to be elected for the same reason. Are you selling all of your gun stock now that papa Trump is in charge?

YesYNot says

One would think that the gun companies would have wanted Hillary to be elected for the same reason. Are you selling all of your gun stock now that papa Trump is in charge?

They probably secretly gave a lot to Hillary PACs.

Actually if I was to criticize President Obama on something, he didn't want to spend enough early on with direct spending, the Dem's are more fiscally conservative than the Republicans

PCGyver says

So will Trump's HEY YOU says

The debt taken on this year was spent by congress during the Bush administration. Almost all of it.

Ohhhhh, I see how it works. So when Trumps administration takes on debt that will be to pay for Obama administration's debt. I see how that works.

Twisting words to make it look like you are right again?

I guess Ironman is right when he says you are a different kind of stupid.

Sorry that you don't know that the U.S. House of Republicans is the source of all funding.
Why do Republicans allow continuing debt increases? See if you can use twisted words to
place the debt on someone else.
There is NO increasing DEBT without Republican votes.
Apparently there are retards that can't find out how many SLIMY ,SHITTY Republicans
voted for any debt increase. Ever hear of GOOGLEIZING. I would post some of the votes
but so many take pleasure in being IGNORANT.
You and Ironman must be a different kind of RETARD TROLL.
Hope you wash your foot before you stick it in your mouth.

As an aside:
Can you pay cash for your healthcare?
How much debt do you have?
Can you stop working for money or do you have a constant income to pay for
the inability to become a Great aMERICAN ENTREPRENEUR?

I think i would agree that Obama did not spend too much on the fiscal policy.
People have to remind themselves that what the economy is today is NOT a direct consequence of current policy maker. It is accumulated effected for decades, meaning it has a long memory.
Those debts accumulated is due to "structural problems" like the off-balance sheet liabilities such as promises of social security and medicare. The current structural is a repeating cycle of "borrow-spend-bailout" which is a wealth transfer machine rather than a wealth creation structure such as "earn-save-invest":

Obama did not do anything to change the structure except the Obama care which is an attempt to gain more government power under the name of reducing health care cost.

While he did nothing to change the structure of the economy, he only cope it by using monetary policy which suppress interest to aero and printed trillions. Imagine how many trillions he has stole from the savers to cope with/strengthen the structural problem by encouraging "borrow-spend-bailout" and punishing "earn-save-invest".

So he is not a spender. Monetary policy under him reinforces current structural problem. Fiscal deficit spending sounds different but its effect will be equally bad because it is still "borrow-spend-bailouts"

As always you pat.net people are way too bearish on America....

Heraclitusstudent says

Even Logan doesn't project this trend for very far.

What happens if it continues? For 30yrs? 40? 50?

What happens if the trend breaks?

Federal debt is going to grow for 4 decades plus and by 2024 mandatory payouts alone will exceed government revenue even with a 3% GDP model

it is what it is

Until Japan, Germany, UK and China have a currency induce blow up, it's not worth the time to worry about

Remember all those calls of the death of car sales early in 2016... I do!

As long as Trump creates safe vehicles for American families to save their money and be rewarded. Without having to play the Casino, then I don't care.

If you are stupid enough to invest in bullshit then you deserve what you get.

More bullshit conflation again. The stock market collapse was not the catastrophe last decade. It was the subsequent blank check bailout that was unconscionable.

PCGyver says

If you could follow this thread you would see that Hey You came up with that logic, not me.

Genius!

Ignorance & Wingnut pretzel logic is your forte.
Any Debt that trump has to deal with is the responsibility of Republicans in the House.
Increasing debt can't happen without Republican votes.
TOO COMPLEX! for you."I see the simplest concepts go right over your head."
So you don't have the list of Republicans that voted for debt increases?
I've got a list. You've got talk.

After Jan. 20th any debt increase will be on trump & Republicans.
Cowards won't vote against increases.

philly is a liberal shithole.

Goddamn that's a steep one. You're gonna see people brewing their own moonshine here soon.