patrick.net

On November 4, 2016, Hillary Clinton led the popular vote polls by 3.3%. The average polling error since 1968 is plus or minus 2%. So, the expected range was a Clinton victory by 1.3 to 5.3%.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-just-a-normal-polling-error-behind-clinton/

The final tally was a Clinton victory by 2%. So, the polls were off by 1.3%, which is less than the historical average.

These are facts. Anybody can look them up. Why is anybody still arguing that the polls were biased against Trump? Ironman, you are making the same arguments now that you made last November, even after the election proved that the polls were not biased and that you were wrong.

You boys whining too much lately. Take it slow, it's only been 100 days give a few. You got 7.8 more years to enjoy this

ipig says

Quigley says

Now I understand the reason this is a Thunderdome thread. You don't wish to counter opposing viewpoints with logic or reasoned argument. You want to shout them down with blatant ad hominem attacks!


Wanker!

No.

The little cowardly shithead PeopleUnited blocked me from posting in his thread. This happened AFTER he addressed me in an argument so I couldn't respond back.

THEN the little cowardly shithead PeopleUnited went to a different thread, and this thread for that matter, so he could engage me in a different argument.

Anyway they aren't blatant ad hominem attacks. They are accurate descriptions. He is literally a little cowardly shithead.

@Quigley is right, ipig is a bloody wanker. He is so butt hurt that he can't post his ad hominem bullshit to one measly thread anymore that he pulls down his pants and shits on his own thread like a stubborn 2 year old. Perhaps ipig was banned because his primary and customary contributions to the thread were lies, false accusations and name calling. The funny thing is that when he was banned from doing so he vandalized his own thread so that he could continue to throw his feces like the frightened little orangutan that he is. False accusations, lies and personal attacks are what ipigs do. And this thread is his personal pigpen. No wonder it stinks.

Oh, and I stand by my comment posted before ipig thunderdomed it and created this shit sandwich of a thread.
PeopleUnited says

He isn't her. And that is the point isn't it? When you start to let that sink in you can start to get over it. You want to blame Trump for the mess we are in. It's time you acknowledge how much Obama and Clinton and the rest of the Democrats are to blame for the Trump presidency.

anonymous says

You got 7.8 more years to enjoy this

So do you. How do you like your comedy? I hope its dark, very dark.

We are just starting the realignment process to get America back on track. Gonna take time before Obamas failed policies reversed and it trickles down.

executive that doesn't give a fuck about political correctness.

Scotus that will defend the 2nd

Politician who isn't going to run around screaming that whites oppress everyone and should live in shame.

Someone who understands business and not food stamp king like Hillary/Obama and commie Bernie.

We got a freedom president. America will be great again

Ironman says

Exactly... we try to teach you something, but your mind is like a steel trap, closed and locked behind the "Blue" door. Ever hear the saying, "A mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open". You should try opening your "parachute", you'd be amazed what you'll learn.

Show me any instance on these forums of you exhibiting that you changed your mind, took in new information, and said thank you to the information presented by another ... then I can take this advice from you.

I've had at least two, if not three, instances of this myself here on Pnet.

Edit: see above. YesYNot is giving you a nice opportunity to do exactly this ... unless you wish to further clarify your stance.

So basically, identity politics and platitudes, that actually have no true substantive gain for America. Trump stands for nothing.

Ironman says

Why are these polls always heavily skewed towards Dems, when the true makeup in the country is almost equal now?

Only if 31% of the population is equal to 29%. If we figure in independents with 48% of independents identifying Dem and 39% of independents identifying Repub, the picture is even more stark. Both parties are in deep doo-doo though as antiestablishment Independents are on the rise.

Ironman says

How did that Electoral College prediction work out?

It worked out within the margin of error, and 538 was closer than almost anyone else. Their model was darn good.

Rew says

Trump stands for nothing.

People with big ideas and moral high grounds keep drafting horrible legislation that screws up the country. Time for someone with none of that who just wants to make all the broke shit work again. There's no bigger plague upon the land than an intellectual with an axe to grind and power to make his fantasies reality.

Fascism is being prevented by the Deep State. God bless the Deep State then!

They also fed Alex Jones the chili that made him a Trumpette conspiracy nutjob.

Ironman says

The chart was from FRED, the same place you got yours... Are you saying YOUR chart is FAKE news?

No. You know damn well that I was talking about the first chart you posted with the incorrect label written over the top. Have you figured out what is on the y axis of your Fred chart?

Sadly, existing forces seem like they are going to corrupt Trump and make him just like any other globalist president.

Ironman says

Why are these polls always heavily skewed towards Dems, when the true makeup in the country is almost equal now?

Because, of the people that claim to be independent, a majority are actually republicans (republican voters that is - who call themselves independent.

I think we all understand why. Hell, even Patrick and TPB call themselves independents. Nobody wants to associate themselves with todays republican party.

rando says

Sadly, existing forces seem like they are going to corrupt Trump and make him just like any other globalist president.

One thing I really like about Trump is that he is probably the only president in the modern era who probably would be happier if he never was elected. In fact, I believe that in the long run Trump would have personally been better of if he had never run. What he is doing as president truly is a service, unlike some who use the presidency for personal enrichment (Nixon and everyone since).

Quigley says

Time for someone with none of that who just wants to make all the broke shit work again.

Makes sense. Instead of a politician that promises to fix all the broken stuff, we should try a self absorbed con artist who says he'll fix everything. The extra bonus is that Trump doesn't just promise believable doable stuff. He says he's going to undo 3 decades of jobs lost to slave labor in the developing world, and he's going to make America white again. He's going to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations, while he builds up the military, and he guts environmental regulations and financial regulations.

Best of all, he upsets all the smartee pants assholes that think they're better than me !!

WEEEEeeeeeeeeeee !

Rew says

Pretty much everything coming from Occupy Democrats is a lie. Congrats on your fake news though

Gorsuch isn't a Conservative. He is a full blown Corporatist (Fascist)

And what exactly is he saving us from? This country has operated under pure Republican rule for the past four decades. The only thing you Simpletons hang on the dems is Obamacare, which is the most Republican legislation of all. Which is exactly why I've said all along that there is zero chance of Trump and his Republicans repealing it

PeopleUnited says

What he is doing as president truly is a service, unlike some who use the presidency for personal enrichment

😳

You think Trump didn't run for personal enrichment? Fascinating.

errc says

Gorsuch isn't a Conservative. He is a full blown Corporatist (Fascist)

True.

BayArea says

PeopleUnited says

What he is doing as president truly is a service, unlike some who use the presidency for personal enrichment

😳

You think Trump didn't run for personal enrichment? Fascinating.

I think he ran because he thought it would be easier to fix problems than it actually is. However, I think he ran to fix problems rather than for personal gain.

PeopleUnited says

BayArea says

PeopleUnited says

What he is doing as president truly is a service, unlike some who use the presidency for personal enrichment

😳

You think Trump didn't run for personal enrichment? Fascinating.

I think he ran because he thought it would be easier to fix problems than it actually is. However, I think he ran to fix problems rather than for personal gain.

Thanks for sharing.

I think he ran to promote himself and his businesses. I think he never wanted or expected to get this far. I also think that if he could snap his fingers and be out of this situation as President, he'd do it in an instant and be back to his cushy life.

And most importantly, they ALL run for personal gain first and foremost. It's the degree of that the differentiates them.

Rew says

Typical liberal behavior, where Obama takes credit for others accomplishments. Typical left.

Fort Wayne is just making a joke in response to typical left wing bs.

Per CNN, Reagn created 15.9 million jobs-Obama only 11.3 million. Now note the population difference between then and now and that is a much bigger whopper for reagan-jobs vs population. Clinton exceeded Reagan and Obama exceeded Dubya the shrub.

Lot of other factors, like wage inflation over the last two decades which has been dismal(including Bush terms) globalisation with China etc and unless you live in Middle America which has born the brunt of globalisation-but hey keep making fun of flyover coutnry and their real life dismal problems-Trump it si 2020. not becaus ehe is a genius-because the dems have become cuckoo.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/news/economy/obama-over-11-million-jobs/

BayArea says

I think he ran to promote himself and his businesses. I think he never wanted or expected to get this far. I also think that if he could snap his fingers and be out of this situation as President, he'd do it in an instant and be back to his cushy life.

And most importantly, they ALL run for personal gain first and foremost. It's the degree of that the differentiates them.

@BayArea

I agree. While it is true that Hillary, Barack, Donald, George, Bill et al... all ran for percieved personal gain, Donald is the only one of the bunch who actually has a worse lifestyle now than before he became president. It truly is a sacrifice for him to not just snap his fingers and go back to his old life. Does that make him a better president, no. But it does mean that his motives are likely more towards the sacrificial side of the spectrum than personal gain. The fact that he doesn't resign and go back to his own private jet and private life is evidence that he cares more about doing what is right than he cares about leading a cushy life.

I also agree that even he did not think he would make it this far. It isn't that he underestimated his own popularity, it is that he underestimated the UNPOPULARITY of the rest of the field. Even Obama underestimated the unpopularity of Clinton and essentially handed the election to Trump by endorsing her.

Fort Wayne is just making a joke in response to typical left wing bs meme posters.

Per CNN, Reagn created 15.9 million jobs-Obama only 11.3 million. Now note the population difference between then and now and that is a much bigger whopper for reagan-jobs vs population. Clinton exceeded Reagan and Obama exceeded Dubya the shrub.

Lot of other factors, like wage inflation over the last two decades which has been dismal(including Bush terms) globalisation with China etc and unless you live in Middle America which has born the brunt of globalisation-but hey keep making fun of flyover country and their real life dismal problems-Trump it si 2020. not because he is a genius-because the dems have become cuckoo. How did the dems move away from being the party of the common man to the party of the freaks and the 1%-looks at who the ehdge funds and globalist scum donated to this cycle

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/06/news/economy/obama-over-11-million-jobs/

Dan8267 says

iPig says

FortWayne says

Typical liberal behavior, where Obama takes credit for others accomplishments. Typical left.

Whose accomplishments exactly and what actions by the congress were responsible in your opinion?

You will never get an answer on this. Fort Wayne's behavioral routine is as follows.

1. Make a baseless assertion.

2. When questioned for evidence of that assertion, run and hide.

3. When shown evidence contradicting that assertion, run and hide.

4. If continued to be challenged either hide or make another baseless assertion.

5. Go to step 1.

A bot could replace Fort Wayne.

More lies, personal attacks and false accusations from Patnets two most accomplished bullshitters. #TTBS = Tag team bullshitters. #MBGA = Making Bullshit Great Again.

CBOEtrader says

Rew says

Pretty much everything coming from Occupy Democrats is a lie. Congrats on your fake news though

When Reagan left office people liked him so much they elected another less likeable Republican to replace him.
When Obama left office people like him so much they elected Trump to replace him.

See the difference democrats?

PeopleUnited says

But it does mean that his motives are likely more towards the sacrificial side of the spectrum than personal gain. The fact that he doesn't resign and go back to his own private jet and private life is evidence that he cares more about doing what is right than he cares about leading a cushy life.

Except that he is enriching himself more directly through the Presidency than any other politician in history. He's not even hiding it.

PeopleUnited says

When Reagan left office people liked him so much the elected another less likeable Republican to replace him.

When Obama left office people like him so much they elected Trump to replace him.

See the difference democrats?

People are dumber now than at any point in history?

joeyjojojunior says

PeopleUnited says

When Reagan left office people liked him so much the elected another less likeable Republican to replace him.


When Obama left office people like him so much they elected Trump to replace him.

See the difference democrats?

People are dumber now than at any point in history?

Democrats are dumber now than at any point in history. They blame everyone else for the failure of their own party to serve the American people. They fail the take responsibility for the fact that Clinton/Obama's legacy IS Donald Trump. (at least some republicans are wise enough to know that the mistakes of the Bush years gave us Clinton/Obama). The election of the opposition party is ALWAYS evidence of failure in your own party. OWN IT Democrats!

It's all shit.

Ironman's "logic."

We shouldn't have schools, becasue students sometimes cheat.

We shouldn't have capitalism becasue corruption happens under a capitalist system.

We shouldn't have weapons, becasue weapons are only used to kill.

We shouldn't have countries, becasue wars are usually started by countries, unless it's a civil war, and even then often.

I guess you get where I'm going with this.

The truth is fraud can be watched. Especially as systems of payment are standardized with appropriate precautions taken. Put some engineers and "AI" on the problem and it can be lowered down to a very low level. Probably by having patients fill out some online form describing what they are having done and why. Seems like an easy problem to solve in the digital age. Various red flags can be used to identify doctors that need to be watched more closely, and even that can be done by computers, contacting patients asking them to go online and fill something out, and so on.

Considering the state of the VA, do we really need single payer. Exclude the illegals at least.

Ironman says

U.S. jury on Friday found a Florida eye doctor guilty of defrauding Medicare by as much as $105 million by using false claims, including charging for eye tests of blind patients, according to a federal court document.

Florida ground zero for Medicare and Medicaid fraud

marcus says

Seems like an easy problem to solve in the digital age.

Just like it should be easy to get rid of uunderperforming teachers. Yet it is not

People benefit from status quo and once entrenched is difficult to reform

MMR says

Florida ground zero for Medicare and Medicaid fraud

This has been widely reported for years: "Medicare fraud - estimated now to total about $60 billion a year - has become one of, if not the most profitable, crimes in America." The combination of the fee-for-service model and infinite subsidies has produced huge amounts of waste, fraud, and abuse, and lethal consequences.

Imagine if schoolteachers had to incur close to $1 million in startup costs, plus overhead of $100k/year, but they could make it all back and more by assigning more kids to detention and referring them for ADHD drugs on a fee for service basis. Almost inevitably, you'd see some entrepreneurial teachers putting as many kids as possible in detention and on drugs, while idealistic teachers who try to do right would struggle to make ends meet, might even be driven out of the high cost areas. Similar events have actually happened involving judges in Pennsylvania sentencing kids to juvenile detention in exchange for kickbacks, and Florida is notorious for drugging kids in juvenile detention. In SF and other high cost areas, we see honest doctors driven out, while entrepreneurial doctors cash in.

This.

PeopleUnited says

It isn't that he underestimated his own popularity, it is that he underestimated the UNPOPULARITY of the rest of the field. Even Obama underestimated the unpopularity of Clinton and essentially handed the election to Trump by endorsing her.

How so, MrMrs Junior?
joeyjojojunior says

Except that he is enriching himself more directly through the Presidency than any other politician in history. He's not even hiding it