patrick.net

Did anything happen?

E-man says

pkennedy, sorry can’t take your advice. I have to stick to my principle. If it’s not a win-win situation, I would never do it.

You go with your True American self, it's something most here wouldn't understand.
Most Patneters are only pissed that THEY missed the boat, rather than they are fed up with the current mode of operation.

Give 'em hell and tell them your Grand Dad sent ya!

Advice is free so consult with a lawyer. Most lawyers will not charge you anything upfront and only charge % of the judgement.

If there is money involved, your "friend" and a lawyer would not mind a commission, especially if it could be large enough. People don't burn bridges out of ethics, they usually burn bridges when the money is right. If you can get a class action settlement going, even better.

This same situation just happened to me as well. They accepted a $442k cash offer over our $470k cash offer. Both offers (mine and the winning one) were dual agency. At the same time I know there were offers of $500k+ with financing. Apparently someone else had more pull in the brokerage than the other.

Edit: I just realized this thread is from November 2009. Nice! LOL

elliemae says

Good luck proving it. It’s your word against theirs, and your realtor won’t stand up for you.

The seller would know what offers they have received and which ones they have not, if being shown a confirmation after the fact. This really doesn't surprise me at all, and at the very least the seller (bank) ought to know that the realtor they hired is a crook (I know, realtor and crook is sort of redundant) cheating them. IMO anything that makes that scumbag agent's life more difficult is worth your time and effort. As for your agent friend, he could be pushing this if he cared about your interests over his own, so don't cave to his personal priorities.

pkennedy says

How about use what you’ve just learned?
1) You’ve found someone who will close deals under other peoples offers

2) He’ll push through an offer that is 10% less if he gets both sides

3) You’ve got him in a legally iffy position. Iffy at best.
Why not go to him and work out a deal with him? Let him know points 1 through 3. Say you’d like the same deal. You don’t want to go through legal proceeds with him. You would like to work out a business deal with him. Perhaps he could put in some low ball offers for you. If you can work real hard for you and push through a 20% discounted offer you’ll call it even.
If the game is rigged, play by the rigged rules. If he’s not going to submit other offers to push his through, that’s his problem. You just low ball and see if any are accepted, why they’re accepted you don’t care about.

Sadly, it's people like you that are why this shit happens. Zero principle, zero integrity, and motivated by ill-gotten wealth and greed.

(yes I know this thread is older than hell, but I'm just going to play along)

Mr.Fantastic says

Is anyone surprised? I think the amount of real estate agents I’ve met that I actually respect may be countable on one hand.

...and here is the place that I can insert a masturbation joke, huh? That's my NY resolution, to keep it up. Pun intended.

pkennedy says

How about use what you’ve just learned?
1) You’ve found someone who will close deals under other peoples offers

2) He’ll push through an offer that is 10% less if he gets both sides

3) You’ve got him in a legally iffy position. Iffy at best.
Why not go to him and work out a deal with him? Let him know points 1 through 3. Say you’d like the same deal. You don’t want to go through legal proceeds with him. You would like to work out a business deal with him. Perhaps he could put in some low ball offers for you. If you can work real hard for you and push through a 20% discounted offer you’ll call it even.
If the game is rigged, play by the rigged rules. If he’s not going to submit other offers to push his through, that’s his problem. You just low ball and see if any are accepted, why they’re accepted you don’t care about.

So you are advising someone to take an unethical position to result into fraudulent deals by using blackmail? What gives man, this is not right.

robertoaribas says

failure to present an offer to an owner absolutely will lose an agent his/her license. So, send your documentation to the DRE. In Phoenix, this would be career ending if solidly documented.

What I have found is the REO system does not allow a buyer to make sure the agent is not just sitting on the offers they do not like/want to foreward to the bank. And nobody has any way to track the offer. We ned some daylight in the REO system. On a side note, REwhores get really upset when you question their honesty and ask for proof ... just .. EXACTLY .. like all liars do.

Just do what you think is right.

Well, actually, what is probably right is this guy loses his license and spends a few days in the ER.

Removing the assault aspect, I would personally make some phone calls and raise some royal hell.

Long ago I pushed Pac Bell to the point of having one of their attorneys, their CS exec, the FCC and myself all in a conference call over their standard policy of taxing labor. I was pissed. So pissed.

You'll notice they don't tax labor anymore.

Do what you have the balls to do and what you can sleep with at night.

@E-man,

Are there any updates on this? I hope he is sued by someone....

CrazyMan says

Well, actually, what is probably right is this guy loses his license and spends a few days in the ER.

Wow. I would totally buy you a beer. Well said.

klarek says

CrazyMan says

Well, actually, what is probably right is this guy loses his license and spends a few days in the ER.

Wow. I would totally buy you a beer. Well said.

His pseudonym is "crazy man," and now we know why. Not that he's nucking futs, but he says those things we think but don't say out loud - at least here.

Mr.Fantastic says

Is anyone surprised? I think the amount of real estate agents I’ve met that I actually respect may be countable on one hand.

Same here and I lost all my fingers in a grenade accident.

I have found the crooked agents will do these things which im not sure are legal but are games to 'not get offers' on purpose.
----

1. not return phone calls to realtors who plan to submit offers thus stalling them so they can find/slam thru thier own buyer. (i suppose you could send the offer certified mail but to who/where? its an REO and you dont have that contact info the listing agent does!)

2. instructions say fax offers to a phone#... which go unaknowledged... they simply never get back to you despite multiple follow ups - when you finally get them on the phone 'its already sold! sorry!'

3. home is supposedly for sale and vacant but is locked up tight with chains - no way to see - no lockbox on house even though MLS says there is! -

4. Do not show home allowing them to find own buyer here are some ways I have seen:
a. Do not put home in MLS.
b. stall by a week putting in MLS.
c. put in MLS but put the wrong address (gives you time to find buyer until found out and corrected)
d. put in MLS but at a high price and tell your own buyers the 'real price the bank will accept'.
e. put in MLS but with instructions home not available to show - all offers must be site unseen (except your own buyers get access! haha out of country seller ur fuct !)

5. Discourage agents calling that 'there are already 6 offers - 3 over list' etc. even though its not true. this again gives agent time to find own buyer.

It seems like in order to have a case you have to PROVE IN COURT the listing agent RECEIVED THE OFFER and DID NOT SUBMIT IT to the seller. good luck. I bet the DRE in CA will only pull a license if there is a federal conviction. The fines they impose are a joke -a few thousand$! - haha.

"full price cash offer already accepted -- you'll have to offer higher than asking."
"all sales have been 110% of asking in this area"
"there is another off $XX,000 more than yours, if you want the house you will have to offer more."
"the bank countered at full price" (buyer says - let me see the documentation of that) "it's all verbal from here on out" ( - ok, call the person that countered and lets get to talking) "what I meant is, it's just email between him and me" ( - ok, give me the email address and we can CC this deal right now) "um ... well ... that's not how it's done ..."

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Pocky, Bap,
Realtard fucks with you like this you hang up and go straight to the office with an 8 gal can of gasoline in one of those outboard can configurations for a motor boat.
Drop it front of the desk and pull out the phukking zippo.
Instruct him that God will make you toss it through the phukking window of the property in question, followed by the lighter if he even breaths before accepting your generous offer.
When dealing with organized crime, you need to speak their language.
You’re dealing with a class of people who’d rip their own mother’s kidneys with a pitch fork for the right price, probably not too far beyond the cost of a used Toyota.

This one's pretty good. If you are recruiting more friends, this will do it.

The links may not be around but I came across this....

Headline that i found on the net.. but not able to find details to the article...

"An Ohio court affirmed revocation of license for not disclosing to a client that she could purchase a home for a third less than she planned to offer"

digging deeper found this...

http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/10/2010/2010-ohio-2558.pdf

Appellant showed the property to Myrick and, on April 14, 2005, she made an offer to

property for $35,000 to $45,000.

Paragraph 17 page 8...

It is true that appellant provided a disclosure form to his client identifying the
bonus, however, Myrick testified that he never told her about the bonus, and that she did
not recall signing the disclosure form. Needless to say, appellant did not have a
meaningful discussion with his client regarding the fact that he was keeping roughly onethird
of the $64,000 purchase price. On a typical transaction of this nature, the real estate
broker would keep six percent or $3,840. Given the substantial discrepancy between the
ordinary broker's commission and the amount appellant received from this transaction, it
was incumbent upon him to do more than to simply include the bonus amount on some
disclosure form and get his client to sign off on it without fully explaining what it means

COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH: * * * did you explain to her
that [the seller] was willing to take $18,400 less for the
property basically by paying [you] a bonus?

[APPELLANT]: I didn't know he was willing to take $18,400
less.

COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH. If he's paying a $18,400

[APPELLANT]: Obviously, he's netting less but I didn't know
he was willing to take less. He have [sic] never told me that.

COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH: He told you he was going to
[pay you a bonus of] $18,400 on [a] $64,000 sale.

[APPELLANT]: Yes sir. The only thing --

COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH: Does that mean he would
net less?

[APPELLANT]: That means he would net less, yes.

Quote " Crooked Realtor", should I sue" Crooked Realtor? Thats is an oxymoron! I have run into obvious fraud over 30-40 times. But why write a book about it? Thats what they do and thats who they are. Most I have met are poorly educated malcontents who can't hold down a real job and love to have power over honest people. My most recent Example ...Yesterday. I was looking at a HUD house on their official list. The list referred me to a REALTOR in a local office, and I asked two questions about the property. I immediatley got a diatribe about how NOW is the best time to buy and that exact house was the best house at that price and that I should bid more. I told them that HUD had informed me I could bid the asking price they told me I was wrong. So far, just an opinion. Here comes the good stuff. The Realtor immediately added the comment " I am a flipper...do you know what that is " I told her I did not know Realtor jargon. She told me that she has "plenty of houses" that she buys below current market, rents them out and resells HER HOUSES when she finds a buyer. Still not illegal...watch this one. I told her that this was a fantastic story...and if true meant that SHE was competing against ME for the "best deals:, and that she had me at a disadvantage. She knew all legal and other important data about the house that would indicate if this house was a candidate for an offer. She said it was legal..if she waited two weeks. The issue I see...is that I have not received the answers to my two questions...and she was using the HUD and FHA to run a side busi ness for HER convenience and could NEVER legally repersent me like she claimes...because SHE is a legal advocate for herself NOT ME. In private employment she would be fired for conflict of interest. She then tried to find out if I would rent from her!!! Is the REALTOR there for ME...as HUD and SHE led me to believe? Or is she using the trust of a government agency for her own scam? I told her I lived across the street from the house and knew many details of the neighborhood AND was potential cash buyer...if the price was right. She got very upset with me...implying that how dare you know about my scam AND are also a cash buyer---you are ony a renter. She never answered my simple questions about HOW to make a bid. I complained directly to the Office of Inspector General of HUD in Washington DC. I spoke with a very nice investigator who advised me that he receives calls like this about Realtor fraud "ALL DAY LONG"...he took my complaint said technically she had to wait 14 days. I told him that "technically" she was not fulfilling her obligation to HUD or me...as a potential bidder becasue she refused to answer my questions about the property and only spoke about her "side" business...which is the REAL business of Real estate. Side deals for Realtors. IT IS EXACTLY the same as insider trading on a stock issue. She has INSIDE information about the reasons for sale, the motivations, the details that are not on the listing sheet. Last comment. The last comemnt I made to her was..." If you have so many houses and rent to so many people so you can flip for quick money, if the house were a good deal...YOU would make an offer. She replied..."you are correct". This is proof that she is not a BUYERS agent...to legally reprsent me...but she represents ONLY her own self interest. It should be a CLASS A federal offense with 10 years to life...for any Realtor to buy any property designed for the lower socio economic rungs of society. The ONLY REASON FOR HUD...helping indigent and low income people with rent and housing. Instead we have thieves liars and sharks with "credentials" who say they "represent us". Why did she tell me her story? ask me if I wanted to rent from her? Refuse to give me details on the house?

The Inspectors General office referred me to FHA because of her obvious attempt at fraud (adveristing as a "HUD buyers agent"---when NOT true) against FHA rules. HUD now controls the FHA. They transferred me to PIMCO who was handling this house in question. The PIMCO consultant was very upset. He advised me that virtually EVERY TIME he got involved with a REALTOR they made errors on the documents, usually against the buyers..and that many times they were afraid to tell the buyers about their mistakes becasue they didn't want to look bad, and that they usually estimated costs that were much lower than required. He did not LIKE the antics of Realtors. He did give me some food advice...read it here! I think its something that REALTORS already know. He believes that after June 2011...HUD will be discounting prices even more because of the huge inventory. He also advised me he has heard my complaints about fraud waste and abuse by REALTORS specifically, over and over. He said that personally he AGREED that Realtors were stealing opportunities that were supposed to be reserved for those who were trying to buy a house honestly. But he said government policy had to change to stop the Realtors from "abusing the system" for their own use. Good luck...perhaps waiting is the best weapon. Let the market prices drop more and wait and listen for the sounds of Realtors jumping off the roof tops as mortgage interest rates increase and house prices drop more....listen SPLAT! I won't shed one tear for the pain that these GREED-Meisters have subjected us to.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Pocky, Bap,
Realtard fucks with you like this you hang up and go straight to the office with an 8 gal can of gasoline in one of those outboard can configurations for a motor boat.
Drop it front of the desk and pull out the phukking zippo.
Instruct him that God will make you toss it through the phukking window of the property in question, followed by the lighter if he even breaths before accepting your generous offer.
When dealing with organized crime, you need to speak their language.
You’re dealing with a class of people who’d rip their own mother’s kidneys with a pitch fork for the right price, probably not too far beyond the cost of a used Toyota.

I am going to do that on Dec 12,2012.

The 'housing market' has morphed into a CCCP nightmare of corruption, greed, moral hazard and systemic ineffciencies. For gods sake the feds fund/guarantee over 96% of all mortgages.

The best strategy to be an agent I suppose. Or better yet get a job at HUD/BofA/Wells and give sweet deals to your agent friends for $! I know this must be going on!@

PockyClipsNow says

The best strategy to be an agent I suppose.

Joining the dark side will not help defeat the dark side.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Arsonist, pederast, wife beater, serial killer, cannibal, attorney, rapist, Zyklon B chemist, neonazi propagandist and Realtor are all types operating at about the same level of trustworthiness. You’d be hard pressed to find a court or jury that would sympathize with someone actually trusting one of these creatures.
I can just see the judge, intoning in grave tones: “To trust one of these criminal psychopaths is the financial equivalent of running into a cage filled with starving hyenas covered in pork gravy. A civil justice system can not be expected to look out for the interests of the dementedly incompetent.”
Then again, if you can get a lawyer to take it on contingency and it will tear some meat off of the perp’s face, sure, for fun, why not? The world world would be a better place if everyone was suing banksters and dirt merchants every day and demanding the disbandment of the MLS scam.
In fact, given how little money there really is at stake, ask the judge to just rule that the dirt merchant be thrown from a helicopter out over the Pacific somewhere past the 12 mile limit. For the lawyer’s commission, just give him the first shot from a Gatling Gun to chase the perpetrator on the way down. Who could say no?
Trust me. You’ll get far more satisfaction seeing this criminal freak exploding into bloody shreds, shrieking in mind-melting agony and terror on his way to a watery grave.
Then again, ESPN might bid on the rights to the video.
And if the judge says no to your reasonable request for just compensation, hey, you tried your best to make things right.

I think I love you.

There are many factors included in an offer. It's not uncommon for a seller to take less money if the closing was to be earlier and the buyer wasn't asking for inspections.

Ignore can't work when we all quote the Adam Henry (A.H.) aka A$$ O. I have tried to avoid the waste land of some posts that are how shall I say, the last big war! LOL

I would let the attorney decide if it is worth it, how could you calculate your losses, I think you will be able to but the building in three years for 220K so maybe he did you a favor, but that aside, I think you have have damages correct?

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

I like the part about the Realtor being torn to shreds on the way down with the fire from a Gatling Gun.

I haven't heard that one. Please share.