patrick.net

i lost my house in a divorce three years ago. since then i have been waiting waiting waiting for a some housing correction in marin. not happening, i have lost faith that there will be any significant reductions here. it's looking like if i ever want to buy again i will need to move completely out of the area away from friends, family, my business etc. makes me sad, i've called sausalito home for the past 14 years. i would love to buy again. i have had two very difficult landloards in the past three years. honestly, i hate renting an apartment due to the lack of privacy, personal space and defered maintenence of rentals in general. yes, it is nice to know i need not worry about values dropping but i'd rather be renting a home from a bank on a 15 year fixed. at least at i will own a a place to live at the end of my term

I'm 29, single, living with family (no rent), and employed. I've been in the market for a home since late 2008. I've made several offers all with 40%++ downpayment. The properties keep getting snagged by all cash offers even when I overbid. It appears the only way I will be able to get in on a decent home is if I overbid even more to a ridiculous 2006/2007 price. This will not happen. I'm waiting for the right time to purchase still. The area I am focusing on currently has a 5.1% rent:price ratio. I know it's a little steep but I expect positive cash flow if I rent it out due to the large downpayment.

Claire says

Maybe an appraiser would look deeper and not use it as a comp - but for us laymen looking on redfin - we would look at that and think it was a comp. If anyone has more insight - let me know.

I've noticed that too and I generally am able to spot those out because they are the ones with no pictures of the home.

Hello from the Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul area), where the housing market is still inflated (except North MPLS, where they are still bulldozing houses every day) and Joe Mauer seems to be our most valuable natural resource (except our thousands of lakes and the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, of course).

Age: 33
Status: Renter, $1250 for a 3 bedroom/1 bath upper duplex with utilities paid that overlooks the
Mississippi River and downtown St. Paul
Houshold Income: 2 (partner, unmarried), no kids, 5 birds and a dog on the way
Credit: Excellent (FICO in the 750 range)
Net worth (myself): about 10k at the moment but debt will soon be paid off.

We almost purchased our first home for $169,900 with FHA and 3.5% down just days ago but backed out of the purchase agreement after the inspection, which found an attic full of loose (not contained in walls or floor boards) vermiculite insulation, which is assumed to contain asbestos.

We could have easily afforded the home, however, the insulation wasn't worth the hastle and risk to us (both as people living in the home and sellers down the line). Also, we couldn't safely enter the attic make repairs in (2 were recommended by the inspector) unless purchased respirators and such. To abate it and blow in new insulation, it would have cost 10-15k. And no, the buyer wouldn't pay for the abatement (vermiculite insulation is not in any way regulated like, for example, lead paint). And, since the timing of all this was the worst possible in terms of when our lease was up (with no option to go month-to-month or add a buy-or-build), we decided to stick to renting until my partner has a couple years of grad school under the belt and we figure out if we'd like to move to a different city.

So, instead of having a mortgage payment that is only $25 less than current rent and having to pay utilities and everything else that needs to be done/added to a house, we are continuing to rent and save cash. We still have the 7K we saved up for a down payment to build on and are going to use a portion of it to pay off any remaning debt and build upon for future investments.

Any comments/opinions/suggestions/observations are appreciated!

WIN TWINS!

Living at home and saving and looking for a house but hesitant. I can't decide where the market will go over the next 1 or 2 years..

richnewton says

Living at home and saving and looking for a house but hesitant. I can’t decide where the market will go over the next 1 or 2 years..

I think sideways inland empire, Sacto. down on the coast

Has anyone kept a tally on renters vs debt slaves (such as myself)? The one thing I've noticed is that no one has been overly excited about buying just for the sake of buying, everyone here seems pretty pragmatic about the whole buying experience.

that's pretty cool.

If I knew what pragmatic meant, I'd comment. Just kiddin. No, really.

Married. Bought in 2000. My current mortgage payment(including a refi of 70k for student loans and including taxes/insurance) for a 2800 sq ft home(4 bed 3 bath) is now equal to a 3 bed 2 bath apartment 2 blocks away from me. I loved renting when I was younger in the late 90's. 3 years on the beach in Long Beach and 1 year in Hollywood. The same 2 bed 2 bath in LB is now going for $500-1000(depending what floor you're on) more than what my current mortgage is. The Hollywood apartment is now $500 more than what I'm paying in mortgage.

My status: I live under a bridge in a cardboard box. I am President Obama's half brother. Please tell him I need help. Thank you.

RayAmerica says

My status: I live under a bridge in a cardboard box. I am President Obama’s half brother. Please tell him I need help. Thank you.

Sorry, your not too big to fail...

RayAmerica says

My status: I live under a bridge in a cardboard box. I am President Obama’s half brother. Please tell him I need help. Thank you.

I wasn't aware that Hawaii had internet access & electricity under its bridges. We'll have to cut back on your government benefits.

elliemae says

I wasn’t aware that Hawaii had internet access & electricity under its bridges.

You meant Kenya didn't you?

Los Angeles.

Bought in '91 sold in 2000 (worst mistake I ever made) Decided to get 'educated' not to make the same mistake again. Waited out the entire housing boom (since 2000). Bought beachfront property in Bahamas, 3 houses in London (turning profit). While waiting. Still renting from 2000, starting to put some offers. I'm in on 3 short sales at ridiculous prices. So I expect to buy in the next 2 years. Or not I don't care. Unless I use cash I probably will never own a US home outright. Not sure I want to go into retirement with a mortgage. So I'm on the 'fence'. I need something I can pay off in 5 years.

So we'll see.

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

I wasn’t aware that Hawaii had internet access & electricity under its bridges.

You meant Kenya didn’t you?

Kenya clarify that remark? There's proof of birth from the state of Hawaii and a birth announcement from the newspaper when he was born. Wait - let me put on my tinfoil hat and point it in the right direction before you answer.

elliemae says

Kenya clarify that remark? There’s proof of birth from the state of Hawaii and a birth announcement from the newspaper when he was born. Wait - let me put on my tinfoil hat and point it in the right direction before you answer.

Who is questioning where Obama was born .... not me. Try reading the comment and you'll find I was referring to his half brother, duh.

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

Kenya clarify that remark? There’s proof of birth from the state of Hawaii and a birth announcement from the newspaper when he was born. Wait - let me put on my tinfoil hat and point it in the right direction before you answer.

Who is questioning where Obama was born …. not me. Try reading the comment and you’ll find I was referring to his half brother, duh.

The topic of this thread asks what people's status is regarding rent/own, etc. I didn't ask what the political views were. It's unfortunate that you're unable to have any meaningful conversation without whipping out your hatred of our president. You've lost any credibility that you may have ever had here.

Renter, married, two grown kids one still at home.
In 2003 we sold the house and gave away everything we couldn't sell and moved overseas. Did very well till a China contract went bad and we returned to America in March 2008. In five years time the US had changed to a very different country than the one we had left. It had not changed for the better.

I have been part time/seasonally/under/unemployed since we returned. I am over 50 with a flawed credit report and between the two, cannot get a job. I may never work again. We lost much of our retirement 401K and Roth IRA savings in the 2008 crash. We are supporting one at home college student and paying off student loans for another. We bring in just enough money to survive every month and keep the electricity on.

In 25 years of marriage we have literally never been worse off. Returning to America was possibly the worst mistake we could have possibly made. We didn't know. In all honesty, before I bought a car in 2001 I had never heard of a credit report before. Now, my credit profile (which is crappy but not awful) defines my existence in America and controls where I can live and whether or not I am deemed as employable--talents, character, experience, and references nonwithstanding. I am a prisoner of my credit report.

We are retaliating. We own nothing. No house. No car. We buy almost nothing besides food and the occasional new packet of socks. We pay only the most minimal of taxes. We are busily paying off our debts--the banks will finish making money off of us in a couple of years. We're done with a system which uses us, juices us for everything we're worth, then throws us away.

Upon retirement in a few years we are leaving. We should have just enough money to get out and stay out. Philippines, Thailand, Turkey, Malaysia, Panama, Portugal? Not sure yet. I'll send all you 30 year mortgage captives a postcard.

elliemae says

It’s unfortunate that you’re unable to have any meaningful conversation without whipping out your hatred of our president.

I don't hate the president so I don't know what you are referring to. Do I oppose his Marxist policies? I am guilty as charged on that one.

I do think it is a valid point that Obama wants to "provide" for his fellow citizens by TAKING from the producers and GIVING to the non-producers, while not providing for his own family out of his personal funds. The fact is that Obama's half brother does live in a cardboard box and manages to get by on "less than $1 per day.” Obama is a very rich man. I find it incredible that he has not helped his poor sibling out with some Obama Money, i.e. HIS MONEY, for a CHANGE, not ours.

18 years as homeowner in Los Gatos.

RayAmerica says

I don’t hate the president so I don’t know what you are referring to. Do I oppose his Marxist policies? I am guilty as charged on that one.

I dont see any of Obama's or the Demos policies trying to move the country forward. They are only putting in place Liberal policies they have been pushing for decades, and marketing it as stimulas package. Everything health to alternative energy to broadband agenda is peppered with pork spending.
I already see the seeds of the next bubble.. education. The gov agenda is pushing more money into an already inefficent insitutations who cannot control their own spending and have questionable educational mission.

Please don't hijack every thread with your hatred of all things Obama. That's all I'm asking. Again, the thread asks:

"I’m curious as to the status of patnet readers. How have you weathered the recession? I’m not asking for a diatribe on which political party is responsible for this situation, I’m asking for a short, sweet answer as to where you’re at.

"Are you an “owner” and, if so, when did you buy? Are you upside down?

"Or are you a renter? If so, are you glad you didn’t buy?"
------------------
Please Abe, for once, respect someone else (if you're able).

thomas.wong1986 says

I already see the seeds of the next bubble.. education. The gov agenda is pushing more money into an already inefficent insitutations who cannot control their own spending and have questionable educational mission.

I totally agree. Without manufacturing jobs, white collar jobs disappear as well. Where are all these kids with degrees going to find work? I spoke with a financial advisor the other day and she told me she knows college grads that can't find anything better than McDonalds. Now the government is taking control of all student loans. It's all a ruse to portray the "just go to college and there will be a great future for you.” As a result, the Nanny State expands, and young people think they have more freedom because they attended college, thanks to Uncle Sam. When in fact, they will owe the government (borrower is slave to the lender) a large amount of student loan money. All while the wealth creating manufacturing jobs continue to disappear, only to be replaced with temporary public works jobs. This is nothing other than another way the government will gain more control over personal freedom.

42, wife, twin pre-teens in North Florida. We bought our one and only house in late 1980's for $80K, with 20% down (yes we were only 21). Back then it was thought of as the only sane way to buy a house - how quaint, having skin in the game. It was a little 3/1 1300 square foot bungalow in a historic area of town. Have watched several cycles of silly prices. When we wanted something bigger it was much cheaper to add on about 900 square feet in 2003. Refinanced and added master bedroom, family and laundry rooms and updated the rest of the house. Still way less than if we had bought a house the same size.

Kids finishing 6th grade and house will be paid off their senior year. Owe about 40% of current value, although we don't care as this will be our only house. Mortgage is about 14% of gross income, we spend our money on private schools as most public schools here are shaky and if your kids aren't Mensa candidates they can't get in magnet schools. No other debt, 10+ years with a private company that is as conservative with money as I am. Company doing okay, not great, owners tolerating lower profits to not lay anyone off.

@hottytoddy
how did you save up $16K in just 2 years after HighSchool? Just asking - not starting crap.

Actually graduated college at 20 (3 years). Wife and I worked through school to save for when we got married, our parents lovingly paid for school, and had sign on bonuses with our first jobs and gifts from the wedding that made up the rest.

my status:
own two homes... down from six pre-bubble. (had to hedge my bubble bets)
I will buy again when I think it is the bottom, planning on investing about 1 million dollars.
college professor, Realtor for decades.

Thank you housing bubble for all of the money!

30. Purchased house in 2004 for 112K. Put 30K work into it and a lot of sweat. It's worth about 125K now. Mortgage is 107K after a cash out refi in 2008 post-rehab. I'd like to rent it and purchase a new home asap.

@bap
$16,000 over 2 years exactly, without any interest is $166 per pay check per person.

Not a huge amount to save. Drop a bit on rent. Don't buy new. Get a slight saving mentality. Not that much over all.

Lurker. For some reason I felt compelled to share. Not too many people posting here in my situation.

Late 20s now. In 2005, purchased first home in AZ exurbs. I got caught up in the 'buy now or be priced out' furor and, as they say, drove until I could qualify. Worst mistake of my life. I bought something reasonably priced for my income instead of stretching with deviant financing options. 30 yr fixed, 10% down, PMI. No refi's or helocs.

In late 2006, I latched onto this site, HBB, HP, etc and realized what a horrible mistake I had made. Since that time, I have probably increased my economic sense 4 fold. At some point, I decided to start making extra principal payments to speed up the pay down, but the house price was dropping faster then ever. Since purchase, the house has lost 50% of value. Closer to 60% from the absolute peak.

Recently married and had my first kid. About 100k underwater and decided enough was enough. Eventually made the tough decision to strategically default as opposed to sinking more money into a blackhole and waiting 15 years for the price to recover. Not to mention the location is way out of town.

We'll be staying with family for a while and then hope to save enough to pay cash (yes houses are cheap here) with a small family loan. The What-Ifs kill me as if I would have just listened to my sixth sense about being caught up in lot lotteries with 90% Californians I'm sure I could have rented, saved, and purchased the perfect house today.

So surely 'walkers' are the butt of many a joke around here and this is not the most popular course of action, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway to, at the very least, demonstrate that not all 'walkers' were feeding from the housing ATM to support an opulent lifestyle. Although I'm sure to some, there is no difference. Questions welcome.

MarkA says

So surely ‘walkers’ are the butt of many a joke around here and this is not the most popular course of action

I fully support your economic decision, no joke!

MarkA says

Recently married and had my first kid. About 100k underwater and decided enough was enough. Eventually made the tough decision to strategically default as opposed to sinking more money into a blackhole and waiting 15 years for the price to recover. Not to mention the location is way out of town.

Even though I've gone on record as saying that strategic defaulters suck, might I tell you that I'm very sorry for your specific situation and wish you the best. Yes houses are cheap - and someone's gotta buy one. I sincerely hope it's you.

we still luv ya MarkA .... kinda. lol

Luckily I'm not looking for your love or pity Bap, so my apologies if it came off as seeking either. I think we can agree that we all get enough sob stories from CNN. Any defensiveness comes from an innate reflex to deflect scorn regardless of whether I deserve it or not.

I simply meant to share my current housing status, how I ended up there, and lessons learned per the topic of the thread.

lol ... dang, all harsh and shit.

28, laid off, broke and living with my mom.

I see nothing wrong with strategic defaulters. There's nothing illegal about it. What I disagree with is government's use of my tax dollars to support the situation.

thomasmann says

28, laid off, broke and living with my mom.

Just think, a few years ago you could have got a 750K loan!

chrisw says

thomasmann says

28, laid off, broke and living with my mom.

Just think, a few years ago you could have got a 750K loan!

I could have defaulted on the mortgage while still living in the house while collecting rent.

Short answer:
I'm 27, employed and renting a house in Michigan. I've been fortunate, but I'm so glad I didn't buy a house.

Here's why:

Last year my wife and I were looking to buy a house. We were renting an apartment and finally saved enough for a 20% down-payment. Of course, this down-payment was our entire savings, but with that $8K tax credit we would still have a savings in my mind. I was of the belief that if you had the money for a down-payment and could make the mortgage and tax payments, it only makes sense to purchase a house. I learned quickly that this was not the case.

There were a handful of houses in our "price range" that we liked in a very specific area. But we just didn't feel good about the whole thing. It took years to build up that down-payment. Would it really make sense to tie up all that money into a house? What if I lost my job? I was told months ago about how safe my job was, but I was still worried.

So we decided to call the whole thing off. I felt kind of silly spending all that time researching houses and loans, but it was a good learning experience.

I learn two months later I was going lose my job.

I worked for a consulting firm and the main corporate client was basically moving the work to another company. I was upset but relieved at the same time. What if I had actually bought a house? I'd be another struggling underwater statistic. But instead I had a big cash cushion and could get through unemployment more comfortably than some people.

Fortunately I was offered the same job with the company that was taking over the work from the main corporate client. So I was never out of work and I'm actually earning more now. If I bought a house though, I think I would have sold my self short just to make sure I got the job to pay the mortgage.

We still wanted a house though, so we looked into renting in the same area. We took a portion of our "down-payment" and offered to pre-pay a 1 year lease for an 11% discount. The owner would have preferred to sell the house, but he was more than happy to take the money to lease the place.

For me, renting is much less stressful. Even if I do lose my job I have a cash cushion and I'm only tied down to one location for a year. I don't really see myself buying house unless I can pay for it up front in cash.

Bought in Simi Valley, Ca. 1996 for $204,000.00 4 bd 2 ba 1850 sq ft, 6000 sq ft lot (put down 10 %). Sold in 1999 for $265,000.00 Moved to Mississippi and purchased a 3800 sq ft house on 4 acres for $225,000.00 (we put down 20%)...My California neighbor who is now a real estate agent living in a McMansion called me in 2004 and said if you would have stayed, you would have made a half a million on your house. I asked her who had that kind of money to buy my house for 700K. She said, everyone wants to live in SoCal...Well, now we know. I thought we did good making 60 thousand in three years, she and her hubby made 200 thousand in three years. I have been reading Patrick.yet since that phone call from her.
As for the simple life in Mississippi, our status is great, and we have never refinanced or borrowed against out HOME. We took a 25% pay cut last year, but we just tighted our belts and are not over indulging, but are happy, just the same: )