patrick.net

I live in LA and travel to LV quite often with my wife and 5 yr old daughter. We dont gamble at all.. we just go there for a change and one day go to Red Rock canyon conservation center. I just came back from LV after staying 2 nights at Paris about 2 weeks back. Let me tell you something about RE in LV. One word for it. DEAD. Everywhere you see you will notice empty new construction. Driving NW to red Rock canyon and you will pass through a new development SUMMERLIN. Its almost empty. God knows who and why people live there... Homes are going for 50% off from peak and still no takers... paris where I stayed had occupancy rate of 40% the weekend I went which is abysmal.

In fact I received the same Wynn letter 2 months back and it went directly to the shredder ...

I get tempting offers from The Venetian and Wynn, and might take them up on some of them, but I'm in no hurry.

It's probably cheaper to buy a house in Vegas at this point than it is to stay in one of those hotels. lol

I moved from there ten years ago, was there about a week ago. It was amazing how many houses are for sale, in deplorable condition. So many houses' yards are unkempt, it's like driving in another dimension. I was at a meeting, all anyone spoke of were layoffs, foreclosures, etc. The Vegas I saw was terrorized by the economy.

That's what happens when you have a single industry state:

Black Gaming (the entire town of Mesquite NV - 3 out of 4 casinos in bankruptcy)
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/02/black-gaming-files-chapter-11-bankruptcy/
Herbst Gaming "Herbst Gaming has 12 casinos in Nevada, one casino in Iowa and two casinos in Missouri, along with a 600-location, 6,800-machine Nevada slot route."
http://www.allbusiness.com/company-activities-management/company-structures-ownership/13824069-1.html
Northern Nevada
http://blog.taragana.com/business/2009/12/17/nevada-gaming-commission-oks-new-operator-for-6-casinos-in-states-rural-north-13072/
Station Casinos
http://blog.taragana.com/business/2010/03/25/station-casinos-proposes-selling-14-casinos-through-bankruptcy-fertittas-to-keep-stake-in-4-45227/

They're all losing money: Riviera, Stratosphere...
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/gaming/

All you have to do is show up and you're a high roller these days.

Was there over the weekend. The locals said residential is still a ghosttown with no end in site.

Lots of cheap houses here that can't be purchased unless you are a cash buyer/investor. Everything has multiple bids, even the short sales. I tried to purchase around two months ago but refuse to get suckered into the bidding game for a POS house and gave up after a week realizing now is not the time for me. Speculators are going nuts and every month our city is losing more people because there are very few decent paying jobs here. Our shadow inventory is also gigantic and getting worse. 81% of all mortgages in Vegas are now underwater lol.

I've been following this market for 4 years now and lately everything I see go to pending comes back on the market within 3-4 months for less. I keep hearing that the cash sales are the only thing going because nothing is appraising. There is abandoned property EVERYWHERE. Commercial real estate is also empty everywhere you look and they are still building more.

I'm waiting 12-18mo's until looking again, need to make sure the manipulated market is over.

"Lots of cheap houses here that can’t be purchased unless you are a cash buyer/investor. Everything has multiple bids, even the short sales. I tried to purchase around two months ago but refuse to get suckered into the bidding game for a POS house and gave up after a week realizing now is not the time for me. Speculators are going nuts and every month our city is losing more people because there are very few decent paying jobs here. Our shadow inventory is also gigantic and getting worse. 81% of all mortgages in Vegas are now underwater lol."

So the speculators just holding on to those properties? Is there a general feeling among folks when it will come back? I can't believe it will be anytime soon.

I don't understand the logic of cash speculators on derelicts. So you've got the cash. But you sit on empty decaying property for how many years? Perhaps they don't pay the property taxes? It's a GAMBLING town and not just in the casinos.

I've been looking at the Vegas market as an investment. The prices in Los Angeles (west side) and San Francisco are still too high and in some cases they are even going up, not down. What is it with all the speculation on just a few choice zip codes? Of course, I'm only interested in a few choice zip codes myself.

During the peak of the real~estate boom it appeared as if Vegas was going to become another South Beach, albeit, on the sand. Will that electricity ever return? I think it will, but who knows when. Will millions flock to live in the high rises on the Vegas Strip?? Or is Vegas destined to relive the financial downturn it experienced during the late 70's and early 80's when the place looked like a ghost town? I remember getting a suite at Caesar's sometime in the early 80's for something like $50 dollars a night. It had a circular sunken roman tub in the room but with green shag carpeting and I would not have taken a black light to any of the place for fear of what might be there. Darn, I wish I had a crystal ball so I could see if plunking down cold hard cash for property in Vegas will pay off or if it will turn out to be a sucker's bet.

I'm going to be going to Vegas in a few weeks to look at real~estate. I am curious to see how the shops are doing. If hotels are running on empty, like the Wynn and the Encore, I can't imagine that many people are flocking to Chanel/Vuitton/Dior etc.

Does anyone here know, are the retail stores moving out of the hotels?

investors only hope is to rent to a welfare mom using Section 8 .. so we tax payers can pay the home loan for the investor. If they are looking for working renters, they are going to be very unhappy.

WillyWanker says

I’m going to be going to Vegas in a few weeks to look at real~estate. I am curious to see how the shops are doing. If hotels are running on empty, like the Wynn and the Encore, I can’t imagine that many people are flocking to Chanel/Vuitton/Dior etc.
Does anyone here know, are the retail stores moving out of the hotels?

I've heard that the high end stores remain, but the mall stores are hurting. Went to the Boulevard mall and it was totally dead. My old house, 4/2 on a little less than an acre (horse property), is in "pre-foreclosure" and looks like shit. Weeds as tall as I am, badly in need of paint, so sad. It was in perfect shape ten years ago and now looks like will sell for 1990 pricing. You can't go home again.

SF:
FAO Schwartz closed its store in the Forum Shops - my friends went to the Forums and they said that it was much slower than usual. I agree that the high end places do well, but those that rely on foot traffic are hurting. The high-end tour companies still do well, tho.

@SF Ace: Funny you should mention Ala Moana. I was just cruising the condo listings last week, and those places are at least 30% off from the 2005-2006 prices. Granted, I was looking at condotel suites, and HI vacation properties have taken a massive beating. I guess the high end retail space doesn't do much to hold up the adjacent residential and vacation units...

Having lived in Vegas, I can tell you that locals only go to the Strip or Downtown for one of two reasons: either you work there, or you're entertaining out-of-town company. It's damn hard to get a hotel job when there are thousands of other people competing with you for the job, and servers don't get all that much $. Depending upon where you work, you can make $100 in tips a day, or $500. But the good jobs are hard to get and even harder to keep.

$40k is good now, but in the bubble years it was a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of housing. Lots of people bought thinking they'd do okay, and are now losing their homes.

Sure, there's gambling everywhere - corner bars, grocery stores, etc but for the most part people just live normal lives.

I think the only reason Vegas was growing so fast was the influx of construction workers here. There are not a whole lot of high paying jobs in Vegas since it's main industry is Gaming/Entertainment. With construction stopping I'm expecting a large exodus and a lot of empty properties. Hopefully I'm not caught up in the same issues since my current employer is involved with the commercial construction industry.

I was in Vegas the week of New Years. The place was crawling with Chinese tourists. I'd estimate about 50% of the people there were asian.

It's quite bad. Check out this mini documentary called American Economic Collapse, Las Vegas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x3spE_X47I&annotation_id=annotation_719508&feature=iv

we were at Vegas last weekend. at night, the strip had a lot people, but i wouldnt say it was crowded.

away from the strip, it was empty.

Premium Outlet was empty. the mall at the south end of the strip was empty too.

my gf bought a Juicy bag there. the clerk was very very friendly.

on the strip, a bunch of Mexicans were handing out poker size cards with naked hookers on them.

we stayed at Signature MGM towers, they were empty.

casinos were not crowded, but still alot people

water was salty, we couldnt drink it. also the air was dry. we couldnt sleep at night because our noses and throat were too dry to breath. my nose was bleeding all the time, and my lips still have hundreds of small cracks. not a place to live.

LandShark says

on the strip, a bunch of Mexicans were handing out poker size cards with naked hookers on them.

wouldn't it be funny if you were to walk past a bunch of hookers handing out cards with Mexican dudes on them? lol. A kind on Monte Python deal. lol

When I was in high school, a good job to get was the one where you hand out flyers to unsuspecting tourists.

My friend just left my house to go back to Vegas. She is renting a 2 bedroom apartment in the worst area of Vegas for $780 a month! There are thousands of homes for sale for less than 100k in semi decent areas, at least much better than where she lives. She rents one of the cheapest apartments in Vegas.

No wonder so many investors are buying up cheap homes. Homes costing less than 100k are renting for $1200+!

I got that too. Even Wynn is in despair?

elliemae, I did several searches in zipcodes in decent areas within an easy commute to LV, I got zero results in that prices range.

As a single mother who works graveyard on the strip, she cannot afford the time to live 30-45 minutes from work, instead has to pay %780 a month to live in the ghetto nearby.

You could rent an apartment in the Bay Area for that kind of $$, yet finding a livable home for less than $180 would be nearly impossible.

It's crazy, homes selling for less than 75k in decent areas, but rents still sky high.

My daughter lives in a 1 br 5 minutes from the strip for $550. There are places 10-15 minutes away - when you're working graveyard, travel time is substantially shorter. East Flamingo has many apartments, as does Trop. It might take a little looking but there are many places that are safe. Rents are dropping.

But it's all moot if she's in a lease and happy where she is.

She's not at all happy, but she has a 9 year old daughter. She has to thing about schools, friends that help out, grandma (places her daughter sleeps overnight when she is working). It's crazy, I have been doing lots of searches and really cannot believe the rental prices on 2+ bedrooms considering the home prices. I did a search on SFH within just a few area codes in the NW corner near downtown, there are thousands of homes for less than 99k, that would be payments less than $500 a month for a house in a better neighborhood than she lives in.

If I thought she wanted to stay there I would buy a house for her to rent, but she would like to be out of there within 5 years, and I don't want to own a house long term in Vegas, I absolutely hate Vegas..

LandShark says

on the strip, a bunch of Mexicans were handing out poker size cards with naked hookers on them.

Bap33 says
wouldn’t it be funny if you were to walk past a bunch of hookers handing out cards with Mexican dudes on them? lol. A kind on Monte Python deal. lol

3-card Monte Python?

see there .... that's funny

on a side note, how do we know the ladies on the cards were hookers? My guess is the "actual prize may differ from ad".

LandShark says

on the strip, a bunch of Mexicans were handing out poker size cards with naked hookers on them.

The poker cards are all scams. They charge you top dollar for the crappy service. It's the image that Vegas is a sin city that keep them in business and a constant stream of suckers visiting the city. If you looking for that sort of thing, you would be far better off in your hometown, since the locals relay on repeat business to make a living.

I was in Atlantic City this weekend, I was surprised to see empty spaces on the casino floor where I used to work. Before they were looking to use every available space for slot machines. My guess is that even at peak times all of the slot machines were not being used, so it makes more economic sense to just remove the extra machines. (reduced electricity bills, less of a cooling load) There is no heating system on the casino floor, the heat the slot machines generate is more than enough to heat the space during the winter, they even pipe air from outside to cool it. During the summer months the cooling load is just brutal.