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What happens if a seller claims additions were permitted?


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2010 May 28, 8:34am   2,414 views  13 comments

by vain   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

But turns out that it wasn't?

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2   elliemae   2010 May 28, 9:34am  

I would hope that before one buys, they'll check out to ensure permits were pulled for the additions. The property assessor's site will show the size & amount of rooms in a house - if no permits, they won't be reflected on the assessor's tax appraisal. However, I'd check at the county building dept.

And check out that location. On a busy road that leads directly to a freeway on/off ramp. Perfect for sitting outside in tranquility, no traffic sounds.

3   Liz Pendens   2010 May 28, 10:10am  

Not sure exactly what you mean but does it pertain to this from the description:

"This is a very large home all added on with permits as per seller"

LMAO! This is actually in the Realtor property description? Jeez Louise. Very lame but bottom line: If there is no Certificate of Occupancy for whatever space was 'all added on'... then why not? And if the home DOES have a C of O for construction as is, why in the world would the 6%'er add this comment? IMHO, this is fishy or this Realtor is lazy and/or a total imbecile. My BS antennae detectors are up.

A non-familiar guess would be there are illegal aspects to this house that violate zoning/building code that even make the realtor take pause. He/she may know it ain't all 100% legal and is CHA.

To answer your question “What happens if a seller claims additions were permitted?”: the lawyers almost always find out there is no C of O for the illegal additions and the sale can not proceed unless all is first legalized by the local jurisdiction. It is upon the owner to do this and incur all associated fees.

PS (can't help it): I'm sure the Realtor considers itself a 'professional expert' and wants the full 6% - in the meantime won't check the legal status of the current home even with it's own doubts. And all it takes is going down to a kiosk in Town Hall...

4   elliemae   2010 May 28, 10:22am  

Yea - I caught the "as per seller" comment. A competent realwhore would check it out themselves - but their job is to place an ad and sell the place. It's certainly not to verify that the property is in working order, permits were pulled, etc.

Realtors are like prostitutes. They do what they're paid to do and nothing more - morals certainly don't matter.

5   Liz Pendens   2010 May 28, 10:52am  

BTW, for almost a $mil the stove is jammed in a corner and apparently there's no d/w?? At least remove the drainboard and take the dishes out of the sink?

6   elliemae   2010 May 28, 11:27am  

Yea - for such a huge place, it's amazing how teeny that kitchen is.

7   vain   2010 May 31, 11:52am  

That picture is the kitchen addition in the lower level. It's just that I've been following this area a lot. I know that in order for an in-law to be legal, it must have 2 side by side parking spaces. So this is definitely information the realtor does NOT want to verify because he/she fears the results.

But lets say I bought this property thinking it was all legal, and 3 years after purchase, the city comes to me and wants me to tear it down. Will the seller be held liable?

8   vain   2010 May 31, 12:10pm  

I just checked the property records and it does confirm it indeed is a very large house, larger than I have seen. Six bedrooms confirmed. But it doesn't mean they have not added a kitchen after the inspection. I'd need to look at the 3R.

9   elliemae   2010 Jun 1, 11:21am  

Vain says

I just checked the property records and it does confirm it indeed is a very large house, larger than I have seen. Six bedrooms confirmed. But it doesn’t mean they have not added a kitchen after the inspection. I’d need to look at the 3R.

what's a 3r?

10   vain   2010 Jun 2, 2:01am  

The 3R stands for RRR, or Residential Requirement Report which you SHOULD get a copy of when purchasing a home. It basically lists out what the house has that is documented on the property records. I think the 3R has the final say as to what was permitted and what was not.

11   Liz Pendens   2010 Jun 8, 12:26am  

Vain says

But lets say I bought this property thinking it was all legal, and 3 years after purchase, the city comes to me and wants me to tear it down. Will the seller be held liable?

In this situation... your screwed. The owner is off the hook after the sale, and your reps have finished their (supposedly thorough) due diligence on your behalf prior.

At that point you'll have to either prove the owner actively withheld the info, and/or your reps and lawyer were incompetent and blew it, causing you damages. I'd say good luck with those lawsuits.

If your serious about the house and have these nagging doubts, Perhaps put the concerns into writing and tell the lawyer to investigate them thoroughly prior to sale. Get answers in writing. Maybe even ask the same of the City. They most likely won't give you statements in writing but perhaps you can keep the correspondence in email format that can be saved. Get it from a more senior staff person, not a junior clerk.

12   mthom   2010 Jun 8, 1:57am  

But lets say I bought this property thinking it was all legal, and 3 years after purchase, the city comes to me and wants me to tear it down. Will the seller be held liable?

When you ask questions like this, you need to think to yourself, what will be the outcome. Suppose you are able to prove that the seller actually misrepresented the information. What damages do you expect the court to award you? Even if they force the seller to pay for the unpermitted aspects to be fixed, that could be very inconvenient for you. The seller could possibly claim bankruptcy if the costs wind up being significant. You probably will have to spend a lot in attorneys fees which you likely won't get back. You don't ever want to purchase a problem like this - your best case scenario is that the additions become permitted but you are likely going to be inconvenienced and will have to pay an attorney. Plus, if you suspect an issue and don't deal with it, the seller could possibly have a defense against you in court since you basically consented to it by not acting.

13   vain   2010 Jun 9, 2:10pm  

I suppose if issues arrive years after sale, that they can some how go back into the MLS listing claiming additions were legal (per seller). Which is exactly what it says on the MLS.

I agree with Mthom. Even if the seller pays to have the unpermitted additions torn down; it doesn't hide the fact that I already paid for the items thinking it was permitted. After demolition, it'd be hard to negotiate a partial refund on the property (in terms of concluding to a dollar amount), even if the seller is willing.

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