patrick.net

RayAmerica says

Rayray’s (thanks ellie, I really like that name)...:

Sorry, rayray... I stole the name from someone else, probably Nomo. He's full of brilliant snark. But I think it's cute how you quote me, respond to me, or otherwise target your posts to me.

sybrib says

Serpent,
I work in a Cool and Hip department populated mainly by Fortress Homeowners; my partner also works in such a department similarly staffed. Even though they are our peers they can afford to buy those Fortress homes, pay the property taxes on those Fortress homes, get their kids to all kinds of private lessons and tutors, send the kids on the Fortress school summer trip to Provence, drive fancier newer cars and take semi-annual trips back home to places like Shanghai and Mumbai. My partner and I, using traditional ratios for things like housing expense, etc. cannot afford any of these things. So it certainly appears that The Fortress must be populated mainly by rich folks who are working here for the perks.

(dang I thought I was subscribed to this thread when I replied to it)
yep.. Thats my feeling too. There are many people I know that live lifestyles that extravagant but they live paycheck to paycheck. I know only 2 families out of my large circle of friends that actually can afford their fortress lifestyle and they both did it though the combination of living extremely conservatively in their younger years and moderate success with start-ups. The rest, either still happily renting or financially on the verge of collapse.
As far as coming from rich families, I know one guy that' grew up in Palo Alto (old money family) but his parents didn't give them any help and they are still renting. One young couple that I know got down payment help when the bought their million dollar shack, but they dropped off the face of the earth because they can't afford to even come out for dinner once in a while anymore.

I think a big part of rich peoples success is the ability to step on people to get what they want. Morals and ethics are fine and good for "blue collar good boy pat on the head" employees but you will rarely stay on top unless you learn to use people and push others out of your way. There might be some filthy rich folks that got their money by hard work and smart choices but I think the vast majority got their money by throwing others under the bus. Damn these morals and ethics! Oops, gotta go, it's time to clock in.

gameisrigged, you are at least somewhat, universally, perhaps, uh, mostly on topic. Good.
My friend...wait I don't want to be your friend seeing how you trashed your two "friends".
This is my last exchange with you. I am tired of wasting time.
Here is my on-topic contribution:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/213855-demographics-and-mortgage-delinquencies?source=dashboard_macro-view

You are clueless as to what it takes to startup a business. I did in my twenties and I worked with
SV networking startups, they were brilliant and hardworking. They all burnt out in the end.
I have the utmost respect for these individuals., they are not like the rest of us.
They are the US's secret weapon.

http://hackfwd.com/documents/The%20HackFwd%20Blueprint.pdf

(hat tip to Ritholtz)

-edit,redundant post deleted

kt says

gameisrigged, you are at least somewhat, universally, perhaps, uh, mostly on topic. Good.

More gibberish from the self-proclaimed financial genius.

My friend…wait I don’t want to be your friend seeing how you trashed your two “friends”.

This is my last exchange with you. I am tired of wasting time.

Don't worry; I already said I'm not here to be your friend. As to my two friends, did I use their names? So what exactly is the problem?

Here is my on-topic contribution:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/213855-demographics-and-mortgage-delinquencies?source=dashboard_macro-view

Yes, the rich are more ruthless than the middle class. Are they more intelligent and do they possess more common sense? No.

You are clueless as to what it takes to startup a business. I did in my twenties and I worked with

SV networking startups, they were brilliant and hardworking. They all burnt out in the end.

I have the utmost respect for these individuals., they are not like the rest of us.

They are the US’s secret weapon.
http://hackfwd.com/documents/The%20HackFwd%20Blueprint.pdf
(hat tip to Ritholtz)
-edit,redundant post deleted

Again, you fail to see the point. You think posting some nonsense "flow chart" is supposed to convince me that rich people are "better" than everyone else? Please, don't make me laugh.

sybrib says

I personally know someone like that, a Fortress resident who owns his home free and clear; dad owns a law firm in Singapore, son worked here in tech on the H1 just long enough to get the green card by marriage, now kids go to the private Mandarin school in Palo Alto, etc

Perhaps should of stayed in Singapore, this region is far too unstable vs the upper rich in Singapore, who have greater politcal/economic clout.

Flocking here doesnt make much sense since our local economy has already passsed maturity.

A "rich palo alto" (??) couple I know, wife is doctor and husband is finance director of tech company hit hard times. Due to a unforseen screw up in his company, he will is unemployed, career washed up and will need to find a different profession. Crap happens really fast around here! Had he stayed in Asia, it would have been over looked.

kt says

You are clueless as to what it takes to startup a business. I did in my twenties and I worked with
SV networking startups, they were brilliant and hardworking. They all burnt out in the end.
I have the utmost respect for these individuals., they are not like the rest of us.

This is very true, the period was brief where a few with great ideas, or borrowed ones from the past created some great enterprises and reaped fast fortunes. Many indeed are long gone. They followed their passion and did well.

I don't think they worry about money. His dad is the principal of a big law firm, and I think he owns a whole skyscraper or something like that in Sing.

The Fortress is not really that big, so it is not difficult to imagine that it's mainly a high concentration of very wealthy people. No wonder the prices are still going up there.

it is pretty ironic to state that "prices are still going up" "like the energizer bunny" in the fortress areas given the topic of this discussion

this whole "rich foreigner" discussion was done many times years ago. I have only seen speculation and not real data to support these arguments

I didn't mean the prices are going up like the Energizer Bunny, although yes, they are still going up as the "rich foreigners" make their competing offers. But I was referring to the household spending in The Fortress residents my partner and I know as colleagues is going on like the Energizer Bunny, - cars, international travel, private tuition, NorthFace casual wear, etc. We are their colleagues, but my casual wear is from Target, except for the ones I got at Wal-Mart.

Wearing designer clothing, fancy cars, buying homes, and vacations doesn't mean they have family money. It's all about living paycheck to paycheck, credit cards, leasing cars, helocs, and option arms. This whole charade can be kept up for years and is the reason our economy is in the shitter. We went thru this discussion years ago. The whole "magical foreign money" argument was used to explain the explosion in Florida and Vegas house prices because there was no way to disprove it (until prices collapsed)

I'll give you a hint Sybrib - rich people don't just magically get rich, unless they are born from rich families. And rich people don't just magically stay rich while squandering all of their money. You see a family that is "wasting" money on private schools, houses in nice neighborhoods, nice cars, etc, but what you don't see is that their parents probably saved for generations and worked hard their whole lives to get there. In asian culture, kids who waste money are not trusted with more money.

You see people that seem "entitled" and don't have to work for their money. What I see are dual income families approaching half million annual income that have been saving money their whole lives and probably have very little debt. They probably have purchased their homes on a 15 year mortgage, made extra payments, and either paid it off already or have paid down the principal significantly. Their kids might go to Stanford but when they get out they'll be making six digit income and paying it back into the family. Asian families work great together because it's like a business venture where everyone that is able to generate income makes it for the family and invests in land and other assets.

I can see how you might be bitter and resent people for living like this, but they are just doing it better than you are. I'm sorry, but with your single income job and small savings, you haven't accomplished nearly as much as them. You can't hold that over their head because they worked harder than you, got more education than you, and were willing to sacrifice more than you.

Just do the best you can with what you have available to you.

lyoungblood says

I’ll give you a hint Sybrib - rich people don’t just magically get rich, unless they are born from rich families. And rich people don’t just magically stay rich while squandering all of their money. You see a family that is “wasting” money on private schools, houses in nice neighborhoods, nice cars, etc, but what you don’t see is that their parents probably saved for generations and worked hard their whole lives to get there. In asian culture, kids who waste money are not trusted with more money.
You see people that seem “entitled” and don’t have to work for their money. What I see are dual income families approaching half million annual income that have been saving money their whole lives and probably have very little debt. They probably have purchased their homes on a 15 year mortgage, made extra payments, and either paid it off already or have paid down the principal significantly. Their kids might go to Stanford but when they get out they’ll be making six digit income and paying it back into the family. Asian families work great together because it’s like a business venture where everyone that is able to generate income makes it for the family and invests in land and other assets.
I can see how you might be bitter and resent people for living like this, but they are just doing it better than you are. I’m sorry, but with your single income job and small savings, you Phaven’t accomplished nearly as much as them. You can’t hold that over their head because they worked harder than you, got more education than you, and were willing to sacrifice more than you.
Just do the best you can with what you have available to you.

ok I have a few issues with your comment: 1st, Sure in general Asians are better savers and usually work together as a family to accumulate wealth, but they are not immune to investment losses and market forces. 2nd, in general first gen immigrants are the savers, their kids..not so much. Many of them are spoiled entitled brats that get what they want easily. I have a relative who gave me crap about owning a big (tube) TV and throwing my money away renting. Later she buys her kid an brand new BMW to drive to college. pssha Yeah they were frugal all their lives but now their investment homes are barely above water if not under. And their kid can't hold a job after finishing engineering school. Yes he still has the car and has dropped who knows how much $ "modifying" it. (ie. Fully "riced out" with gaudy wing and body kit)