patrick.net

The Tea Partiers do not "love the banksters," you are dishonestly trying to tar people you can't argue honestly with.

We were against the bailouts and think the banks should have been allowed to fail, and think that fraud perpetrating MBS hucksters should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

No, as Ron Paul says, the leadership is taking you for a ride. That is Beck and Palin.

Denninger has been steadfast about exposing the banksters. But Hennessy was schmoozing Kudlow and was for no regulation of banksters.

But here is the problem Jim. When a major wing of the Tea Party comes out with the Santelli view that those behind on their payments are "losers" my dig against them is that they are paying their mortgages to people who aren't even allowed to own the notes, so everyone is a loser. Tea Party people caught up on their mortgages are losers.

And here is the Santelli Rant Feb 19, 2009 and the guy says "losers" in a very derogatory sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-Jw-5Kx8k According to Hennessy, this is the foundational viewpoint of the Tea Party. Hennessy founded the St Louis Tea Party on Feb 22, when the Chicago Tea Party was founded.

Anyone who blames the borrowers is a joker. The banksters are at blame and your mortgage is most likely being paid to someone who doesn't even hold your note and likely doesn't even know where it is.

One more point, Jim. Beck calls everything "communism". That is so wrong headed. The bankster power grab is a classic case of fascism. However, it is an international fascism, not a nationalistic fascism. The US is ruled by big finance, big oil, big pharma. This is fascism.

The primary funding for the Tea Party comes from the Koch brothers, and their dad, Fred Koch, cofounded the John Birch Society. So when I am critical of the Tea Party it is for the leadership and for the John Galt robbing America types who are so arrogant in being better than the borrowers defaulting.

My point is, they are paying to bankster crooks who are illegally confiscating these foreclosures without the notes. So, those current on their payments are paying to the same banksters who don't know where your note is.

robertoaribas says

“that they are paying their mortgages to people who aren’t even allowed to own the notes, so everyone is a loser. ”
clueless conspiracy nitwit interpretation of the problem.
really? JP Morgan, or B of A aren’t allowed to own the notes?
The only kernel of truth, is that they have left the original notes owned by MERS, as a nominee. An attempt to make efficient modern process out of what is a 13th century standard and system of record keeping: 50,000 local county courts each with separate varying time consuming and expensive requirements that must be met, each time a note is sold.
If we ran checking like you think mortgage loans should be run, you wouldn’t be able to right a check more than a few miles from the bank branch it is drawn on…

JP Morgan dumped MERS. Hadn't you heard? And who gives private banksters the right to bypass state law and the courts in rigging a system that is clouding title everywhere?

Most Tea Partiers are not playing the blame game you're selling along with some others, and I will not follow your change of subject after lobbing out wild accusations. We know there is plenty of fault to go around. People who don't make their payments should lose their homes, that is the only way mortgages can work, and saying that the borrowers should not be blamed is a laughable over-generalization - there were lots of borrowers who took out loans that they never possibly could have paid back absent unsustainable double digit year on year price appreciation. If you think I'm a joker for thinking that Joe HELOC shoulders some blame here, well, too bad, and I think you'll find yourself in the minority. Banks using falsified documents, selling bad paper and otherwise defrauding the system, their customers and each other, on the other hand should also be prosecuted.

JimAtLaw says

Most Tea Partiers are not playing the blame game you’re selling along with some others, and I will not follow your change of subject after lobbing out wild accusations. We know there is plenty of fault to go around. People who don’t make their payments should lose their homes, that is the only way mortgages can work, and saying that the borrowers should not be blamed is a laughable over-generalization - there were lots of borrowers who took out loans that they never possibly could have paid back absent unsustainable double digit year on year price appreciation. If you think I’m a joker for thinking that Joe HELOC shoulders some blame here, well, too bad, and I think you’ll find yourself in the minority. Banks using falsified documents, selling bad paper and otherwise defrauding the system, their customers and each other, on the other hand should also be prosecuted.

You don't get it Jim. Securitization was a form of speculation. We know that the banksters speculated on oil, and it got to $145. Who paid? You paid Jim. And west Africans starved because the banksters speculated on food commodities. Who died? West Africans died Jim. Hedging used to be for people in the businesses, like airlines for fuel. It was never meant for Goldman to be in the hedging business for speculation.

As for housing, it was a speculation carried out by mainstreet, BUT, it was set up by Wall Street. These people should not be underwater, not a single one Jim. The houses were pumped up by a Wall Street scam. This should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. Therefore, if these banksters are unable to force these people out I will be very happy. And our government needs to cut and run from these banksters or they will be exposed for the scam artists they are as well. Always vote against those who bail out banks. We agree there.

But I hope you see that this pattern of speculation is very sophisticated and very wrong and that the banksters were at fault, not the borrowers. If you don't see this you are the walking blind.

Of course it was speculation, and of course the banksters are at fault, but since I'm coming it as a realist instead of someone committed to a redistributionist ideology, I recognize that there's more than enough fault to go around. You are trying to sell Mr. HELOC next door who pulled $300k out of his house to buy a Hummer and a plasma and a vacation home as having no fault here and purely a victim of the banks, and this is just not something any person with any common sense, myself included, will buy. Sell it at The Party meetings - oh and P.S., how are you liking how the Administration has been dealing with its contributors, the banks? If you think the Tea Party people could possibly be any more in bed with Wall St. than the Obama administration, I have a bridge to sell you.

JimAtLaw says

Banks using falsified documents, selling bad paper and otherwise defrauding the system, their customers and each other, on the other hand should also be prosecuted

What you mean to say the "customers" who falsified documentations defrauding the banking systems for their own gain. Clearly the bank customers perjured themself.

PPete says

Dear GaryA,
What’s with the misplaced frustration with the tea party? Besides, the Tea Party is not a political party, it is a force born of extreme frustration with politicians who like to spend other people’s money in order to corruptly retain personal power in order to rob the nation. Just admit to yourself that you are an idiot and move on with your “Humble Pie” life.
I reserve the right to call you an idiot.

Is that the best you can do Pete? Guess I struck a nerve in your arrogant nature. I will be going out so if you post again I will be happy to blast you again when I get back. :)

JimAtLaw says

Of course it was speculation, and of course the banksters are at fault, but since I’m coming it as a realist instead of someone committed to a redistributionist ideology, I recognize that there’s more than enough fault to go around. You are trying to sell Mr. HELOC next door who pulled $300k out of his house to buy a Hummer and a plasma and a vacation home as having no fault here and purely a victim of the banks, and this is just not something any person with any common sense, myself included, will buy. Sell it at The Party meetings - oh and P.S., how are you liking how the Administration has been dealing with its contributors, the banks? If you think the Tea Party people could possibly be any more in bed with Wall St. than the Obama administration, I have a bridge to sell you.

The redistribution already occurred. That is what speculation does Jim. If you filled up your gas tank you helped.

I like them because they are "Grassroots" and the Democrats now, get to get bit in the Ass by the same Media products they perfected. "Oh Boy dat puddy tat's in twouble now..."

And I get a huge kick out of watching them on the run now that cats out the bag. The gripe they build is laughable, they can't come right out and admit using the media, actors, and money from corporations to create a Political reality, from a political cast of Crony Thespians, in hind site was probably a bad Idea.

Republicans are far better at using propaganda than the Democrats are.
I mean it was the peeling away the Conservative facade that made the Democrats great a couple generations ago. They aren't usually the ones behind the Curtain.

thomas.wong1986 says

JimAtLaw says

Banks using falsified documents, selling bad paper and otherwise defrauding the system, their customers and each other, on the other hand should also be prosecuted

What you mean to say the “customers” who falsified documentations defrauding the banking systems for their own gain. Clearly the bank customers perjured themself.

Both - there were large numbers of homeowners and buyers who defrauded the banks by falsifying their financial information, etc., and there were also large numbers of banks that falsified required disclosure paperwork, brought people to the table telling them of fixed rates and then switched them to adjustables without their knowledge, sold loans to other institutions that they had not properly documented, etc.

I certainly don't deny that there are borrowers who were hoodwinked, far from it - but to suggest that this is all of them or even a large proportion and that borrowers as a class are not at fault for where we stand today strains credulity. Gary comes off as a fully committed Democratic Party member who perhaps got in HELOC or other loan trouble himself, or maybe had a close friend or family member do so, and who is certainly in deep denial about how in bed his own party is with Wall St.

JimAtLaw says

Gary comes off as a fully committed Democratic Party member who perhaps got in HELOC or other loan trouble himself, or maybe had a close friend or family member do so, and who is certainly in deep denial about how in bed his own party is with Wall St.

Yes, there is a deep denial regarding the bubble even today. Many still blame only the banks and loans many signed
for the crash but not the run up in prices in prior years

.

I still see many justify the high prices (2006-2007) and oddly still expect a rebound to such prices as soon toxic loans and foreclosures disappear. Never mind all other factors like incomes and inflation!

Even headlines like 'Misplaced Loan Doc' are grasped as ending the nighmare...

robertoaribas says

“that they are paying their mortgages to people who aren’t even allowed to own the notes, so everyone is a loser. ”
clueless conspiracy nitwit interpretation of the problem.
really? JP Morgan, or B of A aren’t allowed to own the notes?
The only kernel of truth, is that they have left the original notes owned by MERS, as a nominee. An attempt to make efficient modern process out of what is a 13th century standard and system of record keeping: 50,000 local county courts each with separate varying time consuming and expensive requirements that must be met, each time a note is sold.
If we ran checking like you think mortgage loans should be run, you wouldn’t be able to right a check more than a few miles from the bank branch it is drawn on…

I have no problem forcing a national electronic real estate system, but real estate is local and can't be moved those 50,000 local county courts basically have to have a say in their local real estate, unless we decide that real estate is no longer local? So care we going to go to a national housing pricing system or are we keeping real estate local?

thomas.wong1986 says

JimAtLaw says

Gary comes off as a fully committed Democratic Party member who perhaps got in HELOC or other loan trouble himself, or maybe had a close friend or family member do so, and who is certainly in deep denial about how in bed his own party is with Wall St.

Yes, there is a deep denial regarding the bubble even today. Many still blame only the banks and loans many signed

for the crash but not the run up in prices in prior years
.
I still see many justify the high prices (2006-2007) and oddly still expect a rebound to such prices as soon toxic loans and foreclosures disappear. Never mind all other factors like incomes and inflation!
Even headlines like ‘Misplaced Loan Doc’ are grasped as ending the nighmare…

Actually I own a manufactured home free and clear. Also I am an independent who is very upset with Harry Reid for trying the sneak the robo signing bill through a few weeks ago. Both parties are in bed with Wall Street. There are only a few in each that represent us that are not. You guys are wasting your time with your analysis of me, because I have no favorites when it comes to politics. I am of the opinion that the ponzi housing bubble was a premeditated scam. And the rise in prices never should have happened, therefore, the scammers shouldn't have a right to the homes back. And the scammers are the investment banksters.

PPete says

JimAtLaw
I think you hit the nail on the head. GaryA is an irrational frustrated Democrat, who thought it was going to be like Christmas every day - with Obama in the WH, and Dirty Harry running congress. Turned out instead, there are no flying reindeer pulling a sleigh full of money to be poured GaryA’s chimney. No elves building discounted healthcare packages for his medications. And finally, no magical principal-reduction home loan modifications.
Grow up GaryA!

You are, without a doubt, the most opinionated and least productive person I have ever seen on this board. You take pot shots but you offer nothing in terms of content.

PPete says

Dear GaryA,
I blame Obama and the Democrat party. They promised to help everyone with these broken loans. So far they helped 5% of those in trouble. So maybe you voted for these liars. Many people did. Now get over it and lets move them out of their Washington jobs and into the unemployment line. Actually these prominent Democrats will have life long pensions for just one term in Congress, so they get to stay at home and collect for the rest of their lives. I vote we let Barack move back to Chicago too!
“Banksters” is a really funny slam on the banks. It’s not the banks who are at fault. It’s the politicians are the ones who took a solemn oath and soon after sold out their responsibility and corruptly gave gobs of money to the banks for kickbacks. If I were a garden sprinkler maker and that was the industry the government was giving Billion’s of $ to, I’d take it too! You need to look at the enablers. The politicians are the “Gangsters” disguised as the only ones “caring for the poor”. The mobsters in Brooklyn make that same argument, while at the same time using poor under privileged kids to run drugs for them.
Given that you have one of those Yippy annoying dogs, I am convinced that you will never see the light. Had I one of those dogs, I might have cut off both ears.

It's not the banks that are at fault? They drove the loan mechanism. How can they not be at fault. Next time you take a taxi and it crashes, you can't blame the passenger. You blame the driver. Same with lending.

PPete says

Dear GaryA,
What’s with the misplaced frustration with the tea party? Besides, the Tea Party is not a political party, it is a force born of extreme frustration with politicians who like to spend other people’s money in order to corruptly retain power for their own personal gain. Just admit to yourself that you are an idiot and move on with your “Humble Pie” life.
I reserve the right to call you an idiot.

The tea baggers are a bunch of naive people being manipulated by Fox News and Dick "Contract on America" Armey. You are being taken advantage of. The "movement" was whipped up, organized and paid for by these guys.

Landru3000 says

The tea baggers are a bunch of naive people being manipulated by Fox News and Dick “Contract on America” Armey. You are being taken advantage of. The “movement” was whipped up, organized and paid for by these guys.

I find it humorous when the left wingnuts band together they are "grass roots" but when the right wingnuts band together it is immediately labeled as "astroturf".

The fruitcake baby boomers are now the establishment and can't figure out why anti-establishment movements have them in their cross hairs. It's OK to band together and push a particular way of thinking - but only if it agrees with you. Hippocrates!

It also drives me nuts that the elite "in the know" people find it funny to call people tea baggers but if the other side calls them something derogatory they run to the ACLU and bitterly cry that the other side is mean-spirited, racist, homophobic, etc, etc. Wah wah wah - grow up and get a life. The right wing bum rush is coming in November and the "equal and opposite reaction" is more your fault than theirs. I doubt they'll be as effective (or ineffective) as the left wing nutjobs but grow up, be a man (am I being sexist by this? Oh no call the ACLU), and take your lumps. As soon as the thing that binds them together (single-party left wing rule) is demolished, they will fall apart. And the pendulum will keep on swinging...

Part of the banking scam is to divide young from old. And some of the Tea Party people like Hennessy and his buddy Larry Kudlow are salivating for social security to come to Wall Street since boomers are boycotting the stock market. We boomers know a scam when we see it.

I think everyone, including those who are current on their loans, should sue for damages. It is likely that those who have been evicted without proper paperwork will or should receive some compensation. And if you are paying to someone on your payment and the servicer has no clue where your note is, you should receive compensation. Actually, this is probably a good time to quit paying your mortgage if you have been thinking about it. (This is not legal advice, lol.)

GaryA says

I think everyone, including those who are current on their loans, should sue for damages. It is likely that those who have been evicted without proper paperwork will or should receive some compensation. And if you are paying to someone on your payment and the servicer has no clue where your note is, you should receive compensation. Actually, this is probably a good time to quit paying your mortgage if you have been thinking about it. (This is not legal advice, lol.)

BS. If you signed up for a loan and don't pay, the only thing you deserve is to be evicted or held up to the terms of the note that you signed. I don't care who ended up owning the note on the backside - that is inconsequential to the fact that you defaulted. This isn't a game of Monopoly where we should celebrate "Bank error in your favor!" - if the bank errors in their favor, you almost ALWAYS get it corrected. The only "compensation" should be when the error results in some sort of actual damage. Just because the doofuses on the backend can't keep their paperwork correct doesn't mean you've won the lottery.

GaryA says

We boomers know a scam when we see it.

Whatever. Your SS has been transferred to the general fund and squandered. The fact that you don't see this scam proves otherwise. An entire generation afflicted with HIA syndrome - thanks for the bill and legacy you are leaving behind.

For those of you wondering, HIA stands for "Head In Ass"

EightBall says

GaryA says

I think everyone, including those who are current on their loans, should sue for damages. It is likely that those who have been evicted without proper paperwork will or should receive some compensation. And if you are paying to someone on your payment and the servicer has no clue where your note is, you should receive compensation. Actually, this is probably a good time to quit paying your mortgage if you have been thinking about it. (This is not legal advice, lol.)

BS. If you signed up for a loan and don’t pay, the only thing you deserve is to be evicted or held up to the terms of the note that you signed. I don’t care who ended up owning the note on the backside - that is inconsequential to the fact that you defaulted. This isn’t a game of Monopoly where we should celebrate “Bank error in your favor!” - if the bank errors in their favor, you almost ALWAYS get it corrected. The only “compensation” should be when the error results in some sort of actual damage. Just because the doofuses on the backend can’t keep their paperwork correct doesn’t mean you’ve won the lottery.
GaryA says

We boomers know a scam when we see it.

Whatever. Your SS has been transferred to the general fund and squandered. The fact that you don’t see this scam proves otherwise. An entire generation afflicted with HIA syndrome - thanks for the bill and legacy you are leaving behind.
For those of you wondering, HIA stands for “Head In Ass”

The banks should have thought of this. You are using an old morality to defend a new scam. Think about it. Old morality protects property rights, proper title clearing, etc. Your morality, though old and sound, is defending practices that are patently unsound and unAmerican.

John asks: "What does the Tea Party have to do with any of this."

Apparently, Gary already has a bad taste in his mouth about the November elections and they aren't even here yet. :-)

For the record, I do blame most of the borrowers. Not because they tried to buy more house than they could afford but rather something worse: They bought too LITTLE of a house they could afford betting that prices would rise forever. They thought they could participate in a cartel to exploit future buyers.

Ironically, this democratizes the capitalist system. To paraphrase JFK, we're all capitalists now! Well, sort of. The voters want the state to protect themselves at the expense of the buyer.

And that's what socialism winds up being too: Cronies at the top cash out for the big bucks with a set of special interest groups hoping to cash in (but wind up being left behind) and using the power of the state to try to milk a minority of people (seemingly) to keep the system going.

With so many different special interest entitlement lobbying groups, (or "civil rights" organizations) all competing for a piece of the pie, it just becomes a free-for-all tragedy of the commons.

You know what? Considering the lack of concern (or respect) the average socialist has for me as a human being, I could care less if all their tax money goes to the bankers, even Democrat voting bankers, rather than green energy, public transportation, free healthcare, etc. To hell with 'em. Enjoy your "Swedish" paradise!

EightBall says

Landru3000 says

The tea baggers are a bunch of naive people being manipulated by Fox News and Dick “Contract on America” Armey. You are being taken advantage of. The “movement” was whipped up, organized and paid for by these guys.

I find it humorous when the left wingnuts band together they are “grass roots” but when the right wingnuts band together it is immediately labeled as “astroturf”.
The fruitcake baby boomers are now the establishment and can’t figure out why anti-establishment movements have them in their cross hairs. It’s OK to band together and push a particular way of thinking - but only if it agrees with you. Hippocrates!
It also drives me nuts that the elite “in the know” people find it funny to call people tea baggers but if the other side calls them something derogatory they run to the ACLU and bitterly cry that the other side is mean-spirited, racist, homophobic, etc, etc. Wah wah wah - grow up and get a life. The right wing bum rush is coming in November and the “equal and opposite reaction” is more your fault than theirs. I doubt they’ll be as effective (or ineffective) as the left wing nutjobs but grow up, be a man (am I being sexist by this? Oh no call the ACLU), and take your lumps. As soon as the thing that binds them together (single-party left wing rule) is demolished, they will fall apart. And the pendulum will keep on swinging…

The tea baggers named themselves tea baggers. They were too stupid to know what that meant, and wondered why everybody was laughing at them. When they were told, they changed the name. And as a card-carrying American homo, I can tell you that is absolutely without homophobia that I say that.

And bullshit on the grassroots. Google Dick Armey. Career republican trickster.
And read this: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8946 : It ends with this: That's the thing about a lie, if you repeat it often enough it becomes "the truth," and then it becomes "history."

GaryA says

The banks should have thought of this. You are using an old morality to defend a new scam. Think about it. Old morality protects property rights, proper title clearing, etc. Your morality, though old and sound, is defending practices that are patently unsound and unAmerican.

Pardon me? Signing a contract and then following through is patently unsound and unamerican? You sign a contract to purchase, obtain a loan and use said property for collateral, some schmuck messes up the paperwork and now you are off the hook? I don't know if this is "old morality" or not - sounds more like stealing to me.
shrekgrinch says

Ok, EightBall…then I suppose you won’t mind just sending your monthly mortgage payment to me then. After all, it doesn’t matter according to you. So I might as well get it.

Are you smoking crack? Did you buy my loan or are you afflicted with HIA syndrome as well? Are people suddenly getting multiple bills for their mortgage and are being expected to pay all of them? No, haven't heard of that one yet. If the messed up paperwork incurs damages to the owner, the servicer needs to pay for it. Telling people to stop paying because their paperwork is messed up is deceitful.
Landru3000 says

The tea baggers named themselves tea baggers. They were too stupid to know what that meant, and wondered why everybody was laughing at them. When they were told, they changed the name. And as a card-carrying American homo, I can tell you that is absolutely without homophobia that I say that.

I doubt they meant what is being repeated over and over. So they didn't know what "tea bagging" was - and since they aren't "card-carrying American homos" you want to smack them over the head repeatedly for this? Obama stated something about his "Muslim faith" - does that make him a Muslim? Most people have given him the benefit of the doubt - can you do the same for the "baggers"? Apparently everyone is too stupid for you. I thank you for the immense humility and kindness to those you deem ignorant.

Landru3000 says

And bullshit on the grassroots. Google Dick Armey. Career republican trickster.
And read this: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8946 : It ends with this: That’s the thing about a lie, if you repeat it often enough it becomes “the truth,” and then it becomes “history.”

I'm sure you believe Gore won the 2000 election as well. The tea party "zombies" are just mindless idiots following the secret plan of Dick Armey. He has successfully overthrown Republican incumbents and is on the verge of throwing Pelosi out of the speaker's seat in the house. Wow, he's pretty powerful. You have a very low image of the american electorate - I think people are smarter than you think. When the electorate sees that McCain is a moron (which he was and still is) and elect Obama, they were marching us towards freedom and a new era of enlightenment. Now that they don't agree with you, they are idiots. Which is it? Could you possibly conceive that the sheer arrogance of the people currently in power has something to do with these people's anger?

shrekgrinch says

The issue is whether a debt slave should be paying the wrong people or not. If you pay the wrong people, then you are just pissing away your money. If everything is so messed up that it can’t be determined who is owed what, then you have a RIGHT under federal law to demand verification of the debt being valid and STOPPING PAYMENTS until that demand is satisfactorily met.

But you don’t seem to care, so I simply asked you to send me your payments. After all, you don’t care…so what’s the problem?

Ok - going back to the original post...I think we may be splitting hairs here...or not referring to the same thing...
----
If you were thinking about walking away from your mortgage this idea of paying your mortgage to people who have no clue where your note is may motivate you to stop paying your mortgage. This isn’t any sort of advice, but you know, the government wants us to shop!
----
Just stopping to pay your mortgage IN THE HOPE THAT they can't find your paperwork is dishonest.

If multiple people start laying claim to the mortgage (and hence your payments) or there is some major disagreement going on? Sure, you can honestly walk into a courtroom and tell the judge "I didn't want to be throwing my money away because I didn't know who to pay it too - but here it is, once you decide who it belongs to assign it and I'll go my merry way - look, I even requested verification...". That would be honest.

If you are paying your mortgage every month and the backend services are screwed up, the average judge should (and most likely would) halt a foreclosure or any other lawsuit and make the screwups repay you for your troubles. The fact that this HAS happened is terrible - but I would bet it is an exception and not the rule.

If you are defaulting on purpose, the mess is going to protract the time it takes for them to kick you out - in the end, it shouldn't absolve you of the debt.

shrekgrinch says

If everything is so messed up that it can’t be determined who is owed what, then you have a RIGHT under federal law to demand verification of the debt being valid and STOPPING PAYMENTS until that demand is satisfactorily met.

I don't really disagree with this. I don't think this should be perceived as a mortgage-lotto where debts are erased because of bad accounting, though. Assuming a lien was placed against the house/land in the first place, messy record keeping on the part of the servicer doesn't mean you don't owe. Are you advocating a mass-verification effort which will grind the whole system to a halt - what would this achieve?

Maybe this is where the shovel-ready jobs are that Obama keeps talking about.

shrekgrinch says

That was the logical conclusion I had arrived at. I mean, people are figuring out that if they play the waiting game they can live rent-free in ‘their’ houses for up to 18 months while the their lawyers play games with the banks. Meanwhile, people who can continue to pay their mortgages are seeing this and asking themselves, “Why the hell should I play by the rules?” and more and more are coming around to strategically defaulting themselves. Same moral hazards at work, fundamentally.

True, I think the decision to "strategic default" may be made easier with the messy bank processes and lost paperwork. On its own, however, this isn't necessarily a reason to do it. I have no problem with people making the decision to invoke their rights under their mortgage terms. They signed the terms and if they choose to default they should be held to their end of the bargain. Nothing more, nothing less. If the bank is so screwed up that they can't work through the process very fast, so be it. That is the banks failure.

shrekgrinch says

Yes and no. Hence why I boiled it down to asking you to send your mortgage checks to me instead. I mean, when put in those rather stark terms I think it just answers your main concern as mentioned in the above

Time will tell how systemic of a problem there is with lost "notes". In the end, the biggest beneficiary will be the lawyers. Congress has shown over and over who's side they are on - and if you haven't noticed, it isn't yours...it is the banks. It won't take much in the lame-duck session to sweep this under the rug.

this is retarded

robertoaribas says

Big mountain out of small molehill…

Exactly. You won't get a free house because someone didn't file the paperwork correctly.

News flash!

BofA and GMAC lift foreclosure freezes and restart home seizures
Bank of America announced that it has found no significant issues with documentation on more than 100,000 foreclosure actions, and it has lifted its moratorium. GMAC Mortgage announced that it also will move forward with foreclosures. The moves are expected to encourage other lenders to forgo their foreclosure freezes.

PolishKnight says

John asks: “What does the Tea Party have to do with any of this.”
Apparently, Gary already has a bad taste in his mouth about the November elections and they aren’t even here yet.
For the record, I do blame most of the borrowers. Not because they tried to buy more house than they could afford but rather something worse: They bought too LITTLE of a house they could afford betting that prices would rise forever. They thought they could participate in a cartel to exploit future buyers.
Ironically, this democratizes the capitalist system. To paraphrase JFK, we’re all capitalists now! Well, sort of. The voters want the state to protect themselves at the expense of the buyer.
And that’s what socialism winds up being too: Cronies at the top cash out for the big bucks with a set of special interest groups hoping to cash in (but wind up being left behind) and using the power of the state to try to milk a minority of people (seemingly) to keep the system going.
With so many different special interest entitlement lobbying groups, (or “civil rights” organizations) all competing for a piece of the pie, it just becomes a free-for-all tragedy of the commons.
You know what? Considering the lack of concern (or respect) the average socialist has for me as a human being, I could care less if all their tax money goes to the bankers, even Democrat voting bankers, rather than green energy, public transportation, free healthcare, etc. To hell with ‘em. Enjoy your “Swedish” paradise!

Your misplaced thinking is debunked here: http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/debunking-blaming-the-borrowers/

This entire episode was a function of a ponzi banking and securitization scheme that required such easy money that a homeless person "owned" 4 houses in Florida.

thomas.wong1986 says

News flash!
BofA and GMAC lift foreclosure freezes and restart home seizures

Bank of America announced that it has found no significant issues with documentation on more than 100,000 foreclosure actions, and it has lifted its moratorium. GMAC Mortgage announced that it also will move forward with foreclosures. The moves are expected to encourage other lenders to forgo their foreclosure freezes.

The war is not over.

robertoaribas says

20 pages of rambling non sense, and not one person with the ability to use google, find MERS website, and pull up a couple of examples. EVERY loan in MERS portfolio says exactly where the payment goes to.
The question isn’t that nobody knows who owns the mortgage; the problem isn’t that you are paying the wrong people. In fact, the entire issue, is simply that MERS didn’t bother to file notarized documents in person in the several thousand courthouses across America to record who had purchased the loan.
Big mountain out of small molehill…
Resume rambling lunacy on this thread in 3, 2, 1…

Lol, the NY Fed is suing BAC. Lolololol. Swine suing swine.

GaryA says: "This entire episode was a function of a ponzi banking and securitization scheme that required such easy money that a homeless person “owned” 4 houses in Florida."

So a single homeless person buying 4 houses caused the whole thing including the Bank of Iceland to go under? He's a weapon of mass destruction! :-)

I agree that easy money helped cause the problem (note that it was democrats such as Barney Frank that were demanding the banks and the GSE's buy up bad loans for a racist minority loan agenda...) but I won't say it was "entire"ly due to that.

As we're currently seeing in the higher priced homes, it's not just the ultra-poor sub-primers involved in a run up on real estate but many well-to-do middle and upper class buyers as well who thought prices were going to go up forever.

Landru3000 claims: "The tea baggers named themselves tea baggers. They were too stupid to know what that meant, and wondered why everybody was laughing at them"

This is a lie. They named themselves tea partiers after the famous revolutionary act of dumping tea from British ships into Boston harbor.

Let's put that into perspective for a moment: They're taking a very important moment in American history and slurring it into a vulgar sexual act. (I won't say it's homosexual since women can "teabag" men.)

Then they're shocked and angered, mind you, when right wingers accuse leftists of being anti-American (successfully) and they sometimes lose elections because of it.

But then again, neither of this really surprises anyone anymore. As far as leftists are concerned, there really is no Ameican history before the 1960's other than acts of white guilt (to be applied exclusively against conservatives. Nevermind FDR building concentration camps for the Japanese Americans, etc) and Europe is a paradise that they just aren't smart enough to emigrate to. I love how Kerry tried to appear more American by refusing French bottled water. As if that was going to make a difference. :-)

PolishKnight says

Landru3000 claims: [Teabaggers] were too stupid to know what that meant, and wondered why everybody was laughing at them”

This is a lie.

No, it's a fact, and there is no shortage of embarrassing proof:

Landru3000 claims: "The tea baggers are a bunch of naive people being manipulated by Fox News and Dick “Contract on America” Armey. You are being taken advantage of. The “movement” was whipped up, organized and paid for by these guys."

Let's assume for the moment... that was true. That the people who disagree with you are naive and that they need to come over to Christianity, er, Marxist leftism for their salvation.

Do you really think that telling them so like that is going to change their minds? When you see one of those holy rollers on a street corner screaming that gays are going to hell and repent now, does that help wake you up and put you on the path to righteousness, or instead dismiss their whole agenda, even the good parts, as just a religion of self-righteous crazies?

When discussing politics OR religion (and they are very closely related if not the same thing at times), I keep in mind that the arguments people make are merely dogma or placeholders for their often subconscious motivations. People often believe in a religion simply because they like the community feeling of going to a chuch and having people about them. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. SF and the Bay area is one big church, in a sense. Good for you. But don't be amazed for some reason that the "sinners" don't automatically want to convert to it.

I don't expect an automatic conversion but I do have other subtle goals in discussing politics or religion. I think it helps that I have had to train cats (yes, it is possible) and the same psychology often works with people.

So Vincente, a picture of a single person holding a button is proof that a majority of tea partiers "gave" themselves that name?

Howz your buddy Ted Kaczinski doing? Has he helped Al Gore stop global warming yet? (Granted, he is better dressed than most tossed salad eating environmentalists...)

PolishKnight says

So Vincente, a picture of a single person holding a button is proof that a majority of tea partiers “gave” themselves that name?

Oh there's more where that came from:

ANd because it's awesome:

PolishKnight says

Let’s assume for the moment… that was true. That the people who disagree with you are naive and that they need to come over to Christianity, er, Marxist leftism for their salvation.

Not the hardcore, who would follow ANY movment right off a cliff.

But maybe the impressionable lemmings who form the majority, might be a little discomfitted by the actual fact that they are working for Koch Industries, not "freedom". That they are ignorant cannon fodder for oil billionaires might not be so palatable to some. Covered nicely here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer

I find it hilarious that for nearly 30 years TRANSPARENCY IN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS has been a drumbeat of the GOP. Now suddenly it's vanished as thoroughly as an "unperson" editted out of old Soviet photographs.