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Poetic Justice strikes Banksters: Judges say, "No tickee, no forclosee."


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2008 Feb 22, 5:08am   25,876 views  146 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Judge Smales
Judge Smales: "You'll get nothing and like it!"

Banks Lose to Deadbeat Homeowners as Loans Sold in Bonds Vanish

Some highlights:

Feb. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Joe Lents hasn't made a payment on his $1.5 million mortgage since 2002.

That's when Washington Mutual Inc. first tried to foreclose on his home in Boca Raton, Florida. The Seattle-based lender failed to prove that it owned Lents's mortgage note and dropped attempts to take his house. Subsequent efforts to foreclose have stalled because no one has produced the paperwork.

...Judges in at least five states have stopped foreclosure proceedings because the banks that pool mortgages into securities and the companies that collect monthly payments haven't been able to prove they own the mortgages.

...Each time the mortgages change hands, the sellers are required to sign over the mortgage notes to the buyers. In the rush to originate more loans during the U.S. mortgage boom, from 2003 to 2006, that assignment of ownership wasn't always properly completed, said Alan White, assistant professor at Valparaiso University School of Law in Valparaiso, Indiana.

"Loans were mass produced and short cuts were taken,'' White said. "A lot of the paperwork is done in the name of the original lender and a lot of the original lenders aren't around anymore.''

...When the mortgage servicers and securitizing banks that act as trustees of the securities fail to present proof that they own a mortgage, they sometimes file what's called a lost-note affidavit, said April Charney, a lawyer at Jacksonville Area Legal Aid in Florida.

Nobody knows how widespread the use of lost-note affidavits are, Charney said. She's had foreclosure proceedings for 300 clients dismissed or postponed in the past year, with about 80 percent of them involving lost-note affidavits, she said.

"They raise the issue of whether the trusts own the loans at all,'' Charney said. "Lost-note affidavits are pattern and practice in the industry. They are not exceptions. They are the rule.''

"Lost-note Affidavits". Add that to "Bandos" as a nominee for best new bubble buzzword of the year.
HARM

#housing

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103   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 4:36am  

The idea of “abundance” may be hard for a person to grasp when all they see around them is scarcity.

Exactly. I dare to speculate that most poor people stayed poor because of this mindset.

But God created all of us with a Free Mind. We are free to adopt ANY mindset.

104   OO   2008 Feb 25, 4:37am  

IRS of course knows about this, it's just that these fish are too small to trifle with.

A restaurant owner I know went through an IRS audit before, they had to send out an agent to camp out at his restaurant 3 days out of a week, and then went through all his suppliers to triangulate the number. That's a lot of manpower. In the end, since he was careful not to leave trails, he got off clean.

105   DinOR   2008 Feb 25, 4:37am  

In the past I've brought up the Pursuit of Happyness" guy Chris Gardner. I think he's a great example of what you can accomplish.

When they were interviewing Will Smith for the part Chris very specifically wanted to know if he thought the story would be about fast cars and easy money? It wasn't until Chris was comfortable that Will "got it" that they went ahead and made the movie.

For CG it was about "breaking the cycle" and being there for his son. (Unlike his own upbringing) The success he enjoyed later in life wasn't nearly as important to him as having a real relationship w/ his son.

THIS is what we should be striving to do. (Personally I cut-out any and all drinking during the week) So "my" contribution is that I'm "only" a weekend drunk. Something my children only saw when they were pretty much grown-up anyway. My brother-in-law (LA acctg. firm VP) made a promise to himself *not to abuse his wife (the way he grew up).

So it's about incremental changes and making self-improvements where and when you can. Not a pep talk but Rome wasn't built in a day and I definitely do better than my dad did. (I was lucky too) :)

106   HARM   2008 Feb 25, 4:46am  

Hey, don't get me wrong --I never said personal responsibility, PMA and refusing to give up *wasn't* an important component of 'success' (however you choose to define it). It's just that the material type of "success" is not as easy to come by as some here may think.

107   HARM   2008 Feb 25, 4:49am  

I clearly recall being an eager "willing an able" college grad in '91, sending out a mountain of resumes and pounding the pavement daily (this was pre-web), and getting... hardly a single call back.

Willingness to work is no guarantee of success. Willingness + opportunity works much better.

108   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 4:51am  

Willingness to work is no guarantee of success. Willingness + opportunity works much better.

Don't forget the luck factor. Just go watch The Secret. Seriously.

109   DennisN   2008 Feb 25, 5:02am  

Note that luck needs not be random. It is definitely possible to attract luck.

Even more important is to grab any opportunity (i.e. "good luck") with both hands when you see it.

110   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 5:05am  

Even more important is to grab any opportunity (i.e. “good luck”) with both hands when you see it.

Yes. One must be ready to receive.

111   DinOR   2008 Feb 25, 5:07am  

I WILL say those options weren't as readily available for our kids. Had it not been for paying off their college loans and... coming up with a down payment for their house they'd be in an apartment and languishing in debt.

I have confidence though they'll do better b/c they spent so much time w/ me being honest about the mistakes "I" made!

There's a lot of practical lessons we can take away from this very blog for instance? It was reassuring for me to see there were others that shared my attitude and values about debt. Without a counter-balance it's all too easy for young people to get very comfortable w/ huge amounts of debt!

112   DinOR   2008 Feb 25, 5:15am  

"One must be ready to receive"

That's .... true but one must also be willing to .... play the hand they're dealt. My way out of lower-middle class was through salesmanship. Yeah, I know, sucks but it was the BEST thing being remotely "offered" to me?

At some point you just have to say, hey, this is it. Fall in love with whatever "it" is and run with "it" as hard as you can. Of course there's no guarantee but look at all the kids that grow up w/ every advantage in the world and STILL manage to f@ck it up? Why... just look at all the "legacy" kids that we're doing better than? (Primarily b/c we're still ALIVE, but you get my drift)

113   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Feb 25, 6:04am  

For every Chris Gardner, there are 100's in not 1000's of rats chasing this dream that never actually get there. It's in the hard statistics, an undeniable fact.

Its useful for corporate interests to hold out this "dream"; to keep the rats running on the treadmills, chasing that carrot in all likelihood that will never be tasted. Microcosm example typical Big 5 consulting firm or high end law firms, churning through people, using them up, all chasing a carrot that maybe only a few percent ever reach.

Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Sergey Brin etal are held out as examples of the mobility that is possible, not unlike the casinos that publicize the million dollar jackpot winner who represents less than .0000015% of gamblers.

Seriously ingrained in our belief system is this uniquely American concept of material achievement and success. IMHO, our society would be better served with a different set of values and priorities. Granite countertops do nothing to further our civilization.

Materialism is a dead end in and of itself, it will prove our undoing.

114   HARM   2008 Feb 25, 6:40am  

Greenspan's Latest: Oil Boom Will Likely 'Go on Forever'

I am reconsidering my position re: Peak Oil. If AG's convinced it's real, then it must be wrong.

115   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 6:49am  

What Peak Oil?

At $100/b, economically-feasible oil is abundant in many places.

116   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 6:50am  

On the other hand, oil prices can also collapse through demand destruction.

I have more faith in the food boom.

117   Malcolm   2008 Feb 25, 6:56am  

HARM Says:
February 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
"As someone who grew up dirt poor (something Randy H and I have in common), I can attest that it’s a little of both. Bad personal choices may or may not have gotten your parents where they are, but children of poor parents must surmount incredible odds in order to rise above the muck of their upbringing –unlike their privileged elite peers, for whom success is all but guaranteed (think the Hiltons & Trumps)."

Harm, you deserved a response but I had to step out. Without even reading the other posts which followed I wanted to thank you for reminding me of that perspective, and I totally agree that starting out poor does stunt people's start in life. Although I never went without, my parents struggled and I can relate somewhat. I further think there is a nature/nurture angle to this as well. Thanks man.

118   DennisN   2008 Feb 25, 6:58am  

So when are the US, Canada, and other such worthy contries going to form "OFEC": the organization of food exporting countries? Dirt-bag countries that piss us off will have their food supply curtailed. ;)

119   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 7:02am  

Dirt-bag countries that piss us off will have their food supply curtailed.

No pork bellies for them!

Oops.

120   EBGuy   2008 Feb 25, 7:22am  

Dirt-bag countries that piss us off will have their food supply curtailed.
Last I checked, we became net importers of food a couple of years back.

At $100/b, economically-feasible oil is abundant in many places.
Yeah, as long as you have a deep-water platform. We are already past peak EROEI for oil.
Speaking of energy, I am looking at a natural gas hedge. Anyboy want to sing the praises of tankless (NG) water heaters? Old reliable is starting to run out of hot water on occcasions...

121   Malcolm   2008 Feb 25, 7:24am  

My next water heater will be tankless unless someone here convinces me that it is a bad idea.

122   justme   2008 Feb 25, 7:25am  

yeah, HARM, well put, I also had to step away for a while and some pretty good discussion got going about interesting topics.

Maybe I should ask Patrick if I can start to author a thread, so I don't just keep participating in derailing other people's threads (with inspiration from DennisN and NVR this time). But I should be careful what I wish for, I bet it is very hard work to come up with an original thread on demand. So maybe not :-).

Somehow I find it easier to be inspired by some pseudo-random musing that pops up along the way than I imagine it will be to sit down with a blank sheet of paper and be truly original.

Well, enough rambling....

123   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 7:27am  

I bet it is very hard work to come up with an original thread on demand. So maybe not :-).

Not at all.

http://patrick.net/wp/?p=108

124   justme   2008 Feb 25, 7:30am  

T(h)ankless water heaters: I think this is more common elsewhere. I think I saw one in Hong Kong in 2004 or so. They also used to be much more common many years ago in Europe.

Does anyone have a good link?

126   Malcolm   2008 Feb 25, 7:48am  

justme Says:
February 25th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
"Maybe I should ask Patrick if I can start to author a thread, so I don’t just keep participating in derailing other people’s threads (with inspiration from DennisN and NVR this time). But I should be careful what I wish for, I bet it is very hard work to come up with an original thread on demand. So maybe not :-)."

I've thought the same thing but realize I prefer to comment than to create a topic. I have to admit I'm just not creative enough. I have a lot of respect for the thread authors here because they come up with really good material that is relevant to many people's lives.

127   Malcolm   2008 Feb 25, 7:53am  

LOL Peter. Jokingly this is a thread you would start:

Homelessness in America....
Who should pay for the funeral when a homeless person starves in America due to his own laziness?

128   DennisN   2008 Feb 25, 8:03am  

I have been thinking about a new thread topic the past few days...on reform of Prop 13. To whom should I send it for posting? Patrick? HARM?

129   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 8:05am  

You can also just post it here and someone will put it up.

130   justme   2008 Feb 25, 8:13am  

PeterP,

I was on the net long before AOL and LOL (I used to hate that expression) came along.
But just for the record: LOL !! :-),. That was a classic Peter P.

131   justme   2008 Feb 25, 8:19am  

Ok, I'm feeling frisky. Who's done an "upper decker" in a tankless water heather? Keep in mind, I had never heard of an upper-decker until right here on Patrick.Net a few weeks ago
Courtesy of Ex-Sunnyvale Renter, I believe.

"Turn on your tap and get hot and cold running crud."
--Pollution, by Tom Lehrer

132   EBGuy   2008 Feb 25, 8:23am  

The comments section in Peter P's tankless water heater link was a good summary of "negative experiences" that I have also read elsewhere on the internet. Be aware that others love their tankless systems and wouldn't part with them for any amount of money. One additional negative that I have seen is that you no longer have hot water if the electricity goes out as (all?) tankless systems have electronic ignition. Some people solve this problem with a UPS for backup. Also, the low flow issue is brought up by many when hand washing pots and pans at the kitchen sink.

134   justme   2008 Feb 25, 8:32am  

Hmm. yeah. I think one can have multiple small tankless systems spread around the house in the kitchen, bathrooms, etc, I think that is what I saw in Hong Kong,. Some kind of battery-based or water-wheel-generator ignition ought to be possible. Of course, if it is all electrical that would no help either.

How about about local small-tank heaters with 5-10Gals of emergency supply?

135   FormerAptBroker   2008 Feb 25, 8:40am  

HARM Says:

> Median Salary by Years Experience - Job: Painter,
> Construction and Maintenance (United States)
> 10-19 years $45,009

If you divide $45K by 52 you get $865/week when you divide by 40 you get ~$21.50/hour

Then Peter P Says:

> HARM, ‘job’ and ‘business’ are very different concepts.

I know illegal aliens that work their ass off painting working 10 hour days at $30 hour (or $1,500/week $78K a year) taking home more per month than guys with degrees that have “jobs” paying $100K.

Then HARM Says:

> Not all tradesmen make $100-200k/year, just the very best.

You only need to work a 40 hour week at $50/hour to clear $100K. Try and find anyone (even a crappy tradesman) that will work for less. When I plumber fixes a sink and charges $125/hour they also charge $125 for the crappy faucet that they bought for $29.99…

136   Peter P   2008 Feb 25, 8:43am  

Added new thread by Dennis.

137   HARM   2008 Feb 25, 9:22am  

FAB,

I can buy that a lot of carpenter/plumber/contractor business is all cash & off the books, but if every one of those jobs (not the just the owners/foremen) made that kind of dough, then CA median housing : income ratio would be low enough to *almost* justify asking prices.

You can't take a few personal acquaintances from a fairly *select* group of people (your business associates) in the posh neighborhoods where you live & work and then extrapolate out to the whole population. If Patrick.net represented an "average" group of people, then the "average" Californian would have a Masters/PhD and make six figures.

138   HARM   2008 Feb 25, 9:29am  

I also don't buy the myth of all these "rich illegal aliens" all making $100k. If that were true, why are immigrant neighbrohoods in CA so poor --10 people living to a room, etc. And why not just hire an American to do the same thing (fewer potential legal liabilities)? The whole idea of hiring illegals is you pay crap, work them to death, don't provide any benefits, and fire them at will.

Shoot, I did house painting and yardwork during H.S., college and also moved furniture and did warehouse work after college (only jobs being offered). I would have killed for *any* job that paid that much.

There are simply not that many jobs as a % --cash-based or otherwise-- that pay that much. If there were, the housing bubble would not exist.

139   homeowner_for ever_san jose   2009 Sep 1, 3:30am  

The rich illegal aliens is not entirely a myth. many immigrants are willing to work more/hr, save more and spend less. They become rich not because they get more $$/hr but because they are willing to save more and spend less.

140   Patrick   2009 Sep 1, 5:10am  

Peter P bought a house. Makes it less pleasant to read about falling prices.

141   homeowner_for ever_san jose   2009 Sep 1, 5:23am  

looks like more and more patrick.neters are pulling the trigger.
I am waiting for the day when patrick will buy a house :-)
Anyways, looks like the market is now in a state where its not easy to say whether to buy or not to buy.
It was pretty obvious ( atleast in patrick.net) in 2005 that buying was not the way to go.

142   Patrick   2009 Sep 1, 5:46am  

I'll buy a house the day it's cheaper than renting. For me, it's not even close yet. It's just so damn cheap to rent by comparison with owning in Menlo Park, and anyway, prices are still falling.

But I do admit it has turned around in a lot of cheaper places. You can actually buy houses in Antioch and parts of Oakland and rent them out for a tidy profit, if you can handle collecting the rent from people who are probably on the edge financially. And maybe armed.

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