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Low Interest Rates Make It A Bad Time To Buy


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2009 Jan 13, 8:08am   12,628 views  144 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

hard to sell

Realtors hunting for the few fools not yet parted with their money keep insisting that low rates are a good thing for buyers. Not true. Low interest rates make it a bad time to buy.

First of all, house prices move inversely to interest rates. If rates have nowhere to go but up, then prices have nowhere to go but down.

Secondly, anyone buying with an adjustable rate will get a nasty surprise when his rate later increases at the same time that the value of his house has fallen.

Though I suppose if you get a 30-year fixed rate loan and don't care about resale value because you never plan to leave, then maybe it's OK to buy and bet that inflation will wipe out most of your loan. Not many signs of inflation yet, so such a bet might not pay off.

#housing

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64   zetabeos   2009 Jan 17, 10:02am  

PERMA-
FWIW, Google will also be closing the SF and NYC offices in months to come as part of its cost reduction.
As for AMD, their headcound is now close to its 1993 levels worldwide. However they only employ in Sunnyvale 10% today of the the 1991. Back in 1991 they employed some 75% of the 12,000 worldwide in Sunnyvale across several large buildings. Today AMD headcount is some

65   zetabeos   2009 Jan 17, 10:06am  

You may also include how Silicon Valley Solar companies are once again using Philippine Semi factories to create Solar Panels even though Obama said Solar would be US made and not exportable. I wonder how he plans to pull the plug on solar now...

66   zetabeos   2009 Jan 17, 10:09am  

Over the past some 225 years the US had more deflation then inflation. Inflation has only been around our life time. The US was what China is today.. center of cheap labor and products. Ultimately our quality got better.

67   zetabeos   2009 Jan 17, 10:13am  

danville woman - never tell realtors how you plan to pay. Keep that out of negotiations. They will assume your some millionaire and start jacking up prices using the "phantom bids" tricks. That is what made prices spike up after the rick IPOs stock of 1998-99. Prices doubled in 2 years by year 2000.

68   thenuttyneutron   2009 Jan 17, 11:08am  

I remember Bush saying that he had to "set aside" his free market principals to prevent a collapse. This is like him saying that he had to set aside his belief in god to prevent a natural disaster! Market corrections for bad investments do correct themselves and capitalism will find the most efficient way of fixing it. The same goes for the natural world. I wonder if he would even get my analogy and question some of the other world views he holds dear.

69   Malcolm   2009 Jan 18, 12:29am  

zetabeos Says:
January 17th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
"You may also include how Silicon Valley Solar companies are once again using Philippine Semi factories to create Solar Panels even though Obama said Solar would be US made and not exportable. I wonder how he plans to pull the plug on solar now…"

Most solar panels unfortunately are made overseas. I remember Obama saying that and interpreted it to mean the industry as it pertains to designing, installing, and maintaining solar arrays can't be exported overseas.

70   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 4:46am  

Financial Literacy and Mortgage Outcomes
http://www.aeaweb.org/annual_mtg_papers/2009/retrieve.php?pdfid=524

A paper by Kris Gerardi of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, Lorenz Goette of the University of Geneva and Stephan Meier of Columbia University asked a battery of simple financial literacy questions of recent homebuyers. Many of the respondents could not correctly answer even simple questions, like this one: What will a $300 item cost after it goes on a “50 percent off” sale? (The answer is $150.) They found that people who scored poorly on the financial literacy test also tended to make serious investment mistakes, like borrowing too much, and failing to collect information and shop for a mortgage.

71   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 4:47am  

Payday Loans, Uncertainty, and Discounting: Explaining Patterns of Borrowing, Repayment, and Default
http://www.aeaweb.org/annual_mtg_papers/2009/retrieve.php?pdfid=15

Abstract

Ten million American households borrowed on payday loans in
2002. Typically, to receive two weeks of liquidity from these loans
households paid annualized (compounded) interest rates over 7000%.
Using an administrative dataset from a payday lender, we seek to ex-
plain demand-side behavior in the payday loan market. We estimate
a structural dynamic programming model that includes standard fea-
tures like liquidity constraints and stochastic income, and we also in-
corporate institutionally realistic payday loans, default opportunities,
and generalizations of the discount function. Method of Simulated Mo-
ments estimates of the key parameters are identiÂ…ed by two novel pieces
of evidence. First, over half of payday borrowers default on a payday
loan within one year of their Â…rst loans. Second, defaulting borrowers
have on average already repaid or serviced Â…ve payday loans, making
interest payments of 90% of their original loanÂ’s principal. Such costly
delay of default, we Â…nd, is most consistent with partially naive quasi-
hyperbolic discounting, and we statistically reject nested benchmark
alternatives.

72   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 5:01am  

Liquidity Constraints and Imperfect Information in Subprime Lending
http://www.stanford.edu/~leinav/pubs/AER2009.pdf

A paper by Liran Einav and Jonathan Levin, both of Stanford, reporting on work with William Adams of Citigroup, shows how sophisticated automobile lenders can be in their loan technology. They use complicated statistical models not only to approve people for credit, but also to fine-tune the down payment and even to suggest what kind of car individuals can buy. This suggests to me that many borrowers can’t match the expertise of lenders.

73   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 5:03am  

Our data come from an auto sales company that operates used car dealerships in the United States. Each potential customer fills out a loan application and is assigned a credit category that determines the possible financing terms. Almost all buyers finance a large fraction of their
purchase with a loan that extends over a period of several years. What makes the company an unusual window into consumer borrowing is its customer population. Customers are primarily low-income workers and a great majority are subprime borrowers. In the United States, Fair
Isaac (FICO) scores are the most-used measure of creditworthiness. They range from 350 to 800, with the national median between 700 and 750. Less than half of the company’s applicants have a FICO score above 500, the second percentile of the national FICO score distribution. This kind
of low credit score indicates either a sparse or, more often, checkered credit record. The principal characteristics of subprime lending are high interest rates and high default rates. A typical loan in our data has an annual interest rate on the order of 25–30 percent. The flip side
of high interest rates is high default rates. Over half of the company’s loans end in default. With such a high probability of default, screening the good risks from the bad, and monitoring loan payments, is extremely important. The company has invested significantly in proprietary credit
scoring technology.

74   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 6:29am  

California

· Adobe Systems Inc. is laying off 75 employees at 601 Townsend St. in San Francisco on Feb. 3.

· Advanced Medical Optics is laying off 61 employees at 510 Cottonwood Drive in Milpitas on Jan. 17.

· Belkin International Inc. is laying off 84 employees at 501 West Walnut St. in Compton on Jan. 16.

· Castaic Brick is laying off 77 employees at 32201 Castaic Brick in Castaic on Jan. 7.

· Downey Ford is closing down and laying off 63 employees at 9500/9207 Lakewood Blvd. in Downey on Jan. 18.

· Exelixis Inc. is laying off 76 employees at 249 East Grand Ave. in South San Francisco on Jan. 5.

· Gregg Industries Inc. is laying off 81 employees at 10460 Hickson St. in El Monte on Feb. 11.

· Health Research Association is laying off 79 employees at 1640 Marengo St., 7th Floor in Los Angeles on Jan. 30.

· Irvine Regional Hospital and Medical Center is closing down and laying off 510 employees at 16200 Sand Canyon Ave. in Irvine on Jan. 15.

· KLA-Tencor Corp. is laying off 153 employees at One Technology Drive in Milpitas and 81 employees at 160 Rio Robles in San Jose on Jan. 19.

· Lam Research Corp. is laying off 149 employees at 4300-4650 Cushing Parkway in Fremont on Jan. 20.

· Naked Juice Plant is closing down and laying off 52 employees at 533 West Foothills Blvd. in Glendora on Jan. 30.

· National Semiconductor Corp. is laying off 151 employees at 2900 Semiconductor Drive in Santa Clara on Jan. 13.

· Palm Inc. is laying off 107 employees at 950 W Maude Ave. in Sunnyvale on Jan. 19.

· Pearson Ford is closing down and laying off 130 employees at 4300 El Cajon Blvd. in San Diego on Jan. 19.

· Qualex Inc. is laying off 68 employees at 18250 Euclid St. in Fountain Valley on Jan. 16.

· Riverside Cement Co. is laying off 84 employees at 19409 National Trail Hwy in Oro Grande on Jan. 30.

· Seagate Technology LLC is closing down and laying off 43 employees at 155 & 195 S. Milpitas Blvd. & 311 Turquoise Drive in Milpitas on April 3.

· Shutterfly Inc. is laying off 70 employees at 3157 Corporate Place in Hayward on Jan. 16.

· Starwood Vacation Ownership Inc. is closing down and laying off 218 employees at 190 Carousel Mall in San Bernardino on Jan. 19.

· Symantec is laying off 38 employees at 350 Ellis St. in Mountain View on Jan. 13.

· Symantec is laying off 55 employees at 20330 Stevens Creek Blvd. in Cupertino on Jan. 19.

· United Industries Corp. is closing down and laying off 50 employees at 4139 Bandini Road in Los Angeles on Jan. 15.

· Vertis Communications is closing down and laying off 88 employees at 1345 Doolittle Drive in San Leandro on April 5.

· Vishay Siliconix is laying off 97 employees at 2201 Laurelwood Road in Santa Clara on Feb. 6.

http://www.costar.com/News/Article.aspx?id=85252C69E5E8E82526A5025799B66AF3

75   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 11:05am  

2009 LAYOFF Data

Employment Development Department
Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification
(WARN) Act Notices

Detailed Listing of WARN Information by Company Name (1-A) - 2009

http://www.edd.ca.gov/Jobs_and_Training/warn/eddwarncnda09.pdf

76   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 18, 11:47am  

Posted by Jack Davis on September 8th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

Ditech Networks, the Mountain View maker of equipment used to enhance voice quality and cancel echo in phone calls, “undertook a reduction in force” as it tried to “further reduce its operating expenses”, the company revealed Monday when it filed financial results for its fiscal 2009 first quarter.

The company provided no details about how many workers were let go, but in early August, when the company first warned that its first quarter results would be weaker than expected, the company said it was taking steps to reduce expenses by about 20 percent.

This would be the second round of layoffs in the last year. Ditech let go of about 23 percent of its workers in the fiscal 2008 second quarter ended Oct. 31 and finished its fiscal year on April 30 with 148 employees, down by about a third from the year before.

The company reported sales of $4.5 million for its most recent quarter ended July 31, down by more than two-thirds from the year-before quarter. The drop was blamed partly lower sales to its biggest customer, Verizon, which is “shifting focus away from their traditional wireless network deployments, where our product has historically been installed, to newer 3G networks.”

77   monkframe   2009 Jan 18, 12:18pm  

Don't know what Original Bankster's comments about the international situation have to do with this thread, but the sooner we kick Israel in line and get negotiations going with the people who originally lived in that area for hundreds of years, the better.
Behaving like Nazis because the Bush Crime Family gives you permission ain't acceptable.

78   danville woman   2009 Jan 18, 8:20pm  

@The Original Bankster

My take on these highly militant and closed minded societies is that there is too much inbreeding. If their genetic pool was more diluted, it might tone down the violent tendencies that have plagued this part of the world since the beginning of time.

79   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 19, 12:05am  

I heard through the grapevine of some people getting principal reductions as well as 30 year fixed refinance rates in the 2.5% range as a loan modification.

Has anyone heard of this? It sounds too far fetched.

Happy King day.

80   coretexity   2009 Jan 19, 2:18am  

FuzzyMath - I would not be surprised. The main goal of all this is to fuck the savers/renters and reward the speculators. The end solution is for everyone to be piss poor and in debt upto their eyeballs. This is what will guarantee revenue and propped up markets (equity/housing) in our bailout nation. All this is working towards that end solution.

81   justme   2009 Jan 19, 4:06am  

Coretexity,

Very ugly scenario but not all that far fetched. Basically, the powers that be will do anything to get the peons into line. I'm just trying to decide when not to be a peon anymore.

82   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 19, 10:45am  

Belkin's Business Development Representative, Michael Bayard, was caught offering money for 100% good reviews about Belkin products at Amazon.com and other e-tailing sites. The Daily Background uncovered this news from Amazon's Mechanical Turk website. After the buzz created on the web, Belkin acted swiftly and removed the postings and reviews. Also, Mark Reynoso, Belkin's President reacted to the incident by writing a letter in which he apologized for the unethical practice.

If you read user reviews of a particular Belkin router at Amazon (NSDQ: AMZN).com recently, chances are it could have been a fake review that was written for money.

This is where the Internet goes bad. Some Belkin employee actually advertised in hopes of finding real-world people to write fake product reviews for money. The advertisement asked for the highest possible review (five stars) and plenty of good comments about the router. The ad also suggested that the fake reviewers mark legit reviews as "unhelpful".

The Belkin employee in question, Michael Bayard, was a business development representative. Mr. Bayard asked reviewers to write reviews even if they didn't own the product, and to make up a narrative about why they bought it and how it was performing. Obviously, this is pretty bad business.

The bad publicity machine reared its head over the weekend as tech blogs all over started reporting on the matter. Good thing for Belkin, management was paying attention and started the spin control machine quickly.

http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/letter.html

83   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 19, 10:47am  

http://www.thedailybackground.com/2009/01/16/exclusive-belkins-development-rep-is-hiring-people-to-write-fake-positive-amazon-reviews/

Exclusive: Belkin’s Development Rep is Hiring People to Write Fake Positive Amazon Reviews

84   PermaRenter   2009 Jan 19, 11:12am  

80 Thousand South Floridians To Lose Jobs In 2009

According to an IHS Global report, commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the Miami area will lose 85 thousand jobs and have an unemployment rate of more than 8 percent by the end of 2009. More than 80 thousand jobs will be cut in Chicago and more than 164 thousand workers are expected to receive pink slips in Los Angeles 2009; in part because of the huge drop in home prices which has put a major hole in California's economy.

New York is expected to take the biggest jobs hit in 2009. As Wall Street firms slash their payrolls, the study found more than 181 thousand workers in the Big Apple could be out of a job by year's end.

The study also found that 70 cities, including Detroit and Cleveland which have already been stung by the struggling economy, could very well see their unemployment rates top 10 percent. Cities like Denver and St. Louis are expected to see unemployment rise above 9 percent.

The only bright spot in the report was that cities like Ithaca, N.Y.; Fairbanks, Alaska; and St. George, Utah, are among the handful of cities whose employment rate will remain flat or may actually increase slightly.

(© MMIX, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

85   monkframe   2009 Jan 19, 12:30pm  

So mass murder is OK as long as Muslims or other "undesirables" are being murdered?
BTW, Israeli forces are reported to have continued killing after the "ceasefire" was declared. No doubt that's OK too, eh??
Better stick to real estate, about international affairs you are delusional.

86   Malcolm   2009 Jan 19, 12:43pm  

All they have to do is stop attacking Israel. I am baffled by a group of people who clearly start a conflict and then claim to be victims because of a defensive counterstrike.

87   Malcolm   2009 Jan 19, 1:55pm  

I'm told that solar water heating is very common in Israel. They come over here and are amazed that hardly anyone uses it here.

88   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 19, 2:21pm  

Coretexity said...

"The main goal of all this is to fuck the savers/renters and reward the speculators."

Yes sir. I think any modifications the banks are doing is to sucker people into a recourse loan. I would guess that very few, if any loans that were originally recourse are getting modified.

I wonder if there are stats on this? Anyone?

89   Malcolm   2009 Jan 19, 2:23pm  

Great point Fuzzy, I hadn't thought of that. What a great scam.

90   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 19, 2:58pm  

I would say the most valuable asset an underwater homeowner has at this point is the "non" in their non-recourse loan.

The difference could mean several hundred thousand dollars and/or bankruptcy.

91   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 19, 3:06pm  

Patrick had this article posted yesterday... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/16/AR2009011604724.html?referrer=emailarticle&ref=patrick.net

This to me is going to be the theme of 2009, and perhaps the biggest tragedy. There are going to be alot of middle class families completely wiped out by the end of this.

Welcome to serfdom.

92   Peter P   2009 Jan 20, 12:05am  

All they have to do is stop attacking Israel. I am baffled by a group of people who clearly start a conflict and then claim to be victims because of a defensive counterstrike.

Absolutely. I doubt Israel has a desire for war except for self defense. It is just that sometimes a good offense is the best defense.

The civilized world must unite against terrorists.

93   justme   2009 Jan 20, 12:36am  

Israel does not have a desire for war, but (some of ) the israelis have an unfortunate desire for land and settlements, which is distinctly not helping on the situation.

It is like Bay Area Fortress real estate, but with lots of guns and religion added into the mix.

94   justme   2009 Jan 20, 1:43am  

Hail to the Chief.

95   EBGuy   2009 Jan 20, 4:17am  

I just went off the gold standard (perhaps too early?). Still have some SLV if the banks get nationalized and Ben starts printing...

96   EBGuy   2009 Jan 20, 5:11am  

And speaking of deflation:
But there's a new twist on the layoff leviathan that hasn't been seen in a major way in America since the 1930s: In addition to laying off workers, some corporations are asking remaining employees to take a pay cuts, and fairly large ones in some cases.

97   HeadSet   2009 Jan 20, 5:46am  

some corporations are asking remaining employees to take a pay cuts, and fairly large ones in some cases.

Less pay to go round after the credit part of "money and credit" dried up. But as a mitigating note, falling prices will take some sting out of the lower nominal pay . We know about housing costs in free fall, now watch other big ticket items follow suit, even cars. From the MISH article on the Patrick reading list:

Cars are going to get cheaper, much cheaper. Auto prices will crash. Liquidation sales later this year after the 2010 models come out are going to be fabulous.

98   kewp   2009 Jan 20, 8:07am  

This to me is going to be the theme of 2009, and perhaps the biggest tragedy. There are going to be alot of middle class families completely wiped out by the end of this.

Stories like this *kill* me.

Only in America could someone with a million-dollar home be considered a hard luck story.

Screw them. I hope they lose everything in bankruptcy court.

99   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 20, 9:02am  

Yeah screw them! Asshole selling police supplies! They fucking deserve to starve!

Are you fucking retarded?

It really becomes obvious how the ruling class stays in power when idiots like you open your mouth.

100   Paul189   2009 Jan 20, 9:38am  

@ kewp,

I'm with you - here is the real hard luck story!

" Oxfam provides food rations as Zimbabwe's hunger crisis is nearing a peak, millions of people see their food from last year's harvest run out months before the next crop will come in Photo: AFP"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/4269695/Zimbabwe-introduces-100-trillion-banknote.html

101   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 20, 9:39am  

Who gives a shit who they thought they were. I'm not sobbing into my pillow because of Mr. and Mrs. McDouchebag.

What I am concerned about is that the entire middle class of this country is going to get wiped out. There there will be the pigmen, and everyone else, with nothing in between to slow them down.

And if you think Mr and Mrs McDouchebag ARE the pigmen, then open your fucking eyes.

102   EBGuy   2009 Jan 20, 9:46am  

They cannot afford their $6,400 monthly payment...
Fuzzy, I have to admit, I am with kewp and TOB on this one. I mean, that's just their mortgage payment and doesn't include taxes and maintenance ( and HOA fees to pay for the guard at their gated community). I mean, he was a salesmen for cryin' out loud.

103   FuzzyMath   2009 Jan 20, 9:50am  

For some reason you guys think I feel sorry for them. I don't.

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