patrick.net

the banks are playing games, and Bank of America is getting ready to start listing their tens of thousands of foreclosures from BAC/Countrywide after a nearly 1.5 year moratorium.

is this just on the west coast. I'm on the east coast, Massachusetts - let the games begin or I should say end. The banks strategy makes no sense to me. Are they planning on releasing inventory throughout the country or just West Coast. Would be nice to see some relief in these high prices. I've decided to build because it's actually cheaper. They are not offering any FHA construction loans in the state so if you want to build you have to have a chunk of change. Contractors are doing little building if at all, so land prices dropping and sitting. I've run the numbers and can get a brand new modular for a lot cheaper than one of these beat up bank owned properties.

Come-on people, Redfin makes money from selling houses (and your browsing history). They are not the federal government. They can't print money to pay their "field agents." At the end of the day, they have to compete with other "realtors" and try to sell YOU a house.

vain says

There was a Redfin agent in my area that got fired. Probably didn’t make enough sales. Who knows.

Article: Redfin fires 50 agents

42 had bad customer reviews. 8(16%) lied and gave fake customer surveys.

I also believe it's still a bad time to buy and that housing is still artificially inflated. When I think back over the half century+ that I've been around, I can easily recall what kind of house people could afford, with a reasonable loan, back at least as far as the 1960s. The fact is, a well built house that has adequate space was more affordable many times over those past decades than it is now, even though the bubble has burst now. It may have burst but the industry and govt at the behest of industry are artifically blowing air back into it, delaying the inevitable. When we reach the absolute bust or close to it, I MIGHT consider buying again, but only IF it makes sense in all the traditional ways. Such as, will I be staying there for at least several years if not longer. These days, people need quick mobility since their employment may be depend upon it. A house is a liability, not an asset. And it's certainly not an investment!

david losh says

redfin is a Real Estate sales company. That is the business model. The technique is called the take away, and is used extensively by redfin. They market online to get you in the car to build credibility. This is another obvious online plant, but hey, it’s sales.
Yes, a hot deal will come on the market so don’t worry, you’ll be on the watch list.
The idea is to build a buyer data base so you can be targeted. redfin is a rebate Brokerage, watched and prized by all the real huge corporate Real Estate companies as a way to sort and target the buyer pool. By being a rebate brokerage you have a reserve of money at closing that can be targeted.
It always surprises me that people don’t get that redfin gets millions in venture capital, but is viewed as some grass roots, consumer based, company.

Redfin has never contacted me with any marketing. Every house I ever looked at with Redfin, I found myself on the website and requested a tour. I think you are mistaken.

carbon steel says

Is redfin really saying that? Or is one guy, as a former broker i would tell this to buyers that i knew were going to waste my time for the next year, look a hundred houses, and say the market was too high in the end. This way i could get them to stop requesting tours and taking up my weekends. It may be too high, heres a news flash every salesperson is trying to make money off of you. Stop whining about it.

How about this...if the realtor sites would put more than 10 pictures of a house and some bare bones stats we wouldn't need to call you for houses we're on the fence about. I want a hundred pictures and some video for an actual virtual tour. Give me the sales data farther back than 10 years. Give me everything you know about the house and when I call for a tour I'll already be sold on the house.

How about this…if the realtor sites would put more than 10 pictures of a house and some bare bones stats we wouldn’t need to call you for houses we’re on the fence about. I want a hundred pictures and some video for an actual virtual tour. Give me the sales data farther back than 10 years. Give me everything you know about the house and when I call for a tour I’ll already be sold on the house.

Right on...... That's what I say. They post two photos, one of the house and another of the beach 3 blocks from the house. I'm not going to be living in the yard. Give the photos up. Also they don't want to post the address. How can I do a drive by to check out the neighborhood? I agree if you don't want to do the tours give people the data. I want to see the sales history of the home and the assessment values. I also want to see how many days this home has been on the market and not just with you but also with the 6 realtors before you.

Don't ask realtors about when is a good time to buy period. Make your own judgement on stats and independent research (avoiding NAR stats). The truth is, nobody is 100% but some will of course guess right!

I have actually started doing drive by's of any house I am interested in now before I ever request a tour. If it is foreclosure I will go in the yard, peek in the windows, check out the neighborhood and speak with neighbors if they are around. It is true, the realtors take few pictures, and try to make the house look good, ignoring glaring problems. But you can typically see many of the problems if you do a drive by.

On the subject of the address, some don't put an address, but almost all ads will list the following information (example), with which you can easily obtain the address

Property Information

Sq. Ft. Source: Public Records
Tax Property ID: 272230030
Parcel #: 272230030
Census Tract: 3530.01

why does BoA need to unload their properties ? i thought they have every motivation to delay selling those.....

Rule #1: Never believe realtors. Whatever they say may or may not be true.

My girlfriend got a realtor license (in San Diego), she started to show me houses to buy. Wait a minute, I remember Rule #1.

MoneySheep says

Rule #1: Never believe realtors. Whatever they say may or may not be true.
My girlfriend got a realtor license (in San Diego), she started to show me houses to buy. Wait a minute, I remember Rule #1.

Haha, walking on a tightrope.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Then you can pick up a house for the price of a good used car, which is a reasonable price for a box with a door.

"Box with a door" is excellent! Never heard it put that way before.

Hmm. Well, after using redfin for years to look at the market I'm about to start dealing w/ them tomorrow. Putting in an offer on a place up on Skyline (Woodside, SF Bay Area). It's more than we want to spend but I consider it to be worth what they're asking so we're going to put in an offer for the list price (I expect it to be bid up but it'll be good practice to get pre-approved, submitting the offer, etc). We visited the place during an open house yesterday so I won't have dealt w/ redfin to view any properties.

The amusing thing was that, upon finding out we were going to use redfin, the listing agent running the open house started bad mouthing them ("You know you have to deal with multiple agents." "Who cares?") and then when we told her about the rebate told us that SHE could work a similar deal. Uh yeah. There is NO WAY I am going to ask the listing agent to be my buyer's agent. Conflict of interest anyone? Also, I've used a ton of redfin's bandwidth over the years and based on the fact that every time we visit an open house the listing agent bad mouths them I would like redfin to stay in business.

grywlfbg says

There is NO WAY I am going to ask the listing agent to be my buyer’s agent. Conflict of interest anyone?

I agree there is a conflict of interest, but if you are going to do most of the work, why do you care? You've already looked at the house. You will get your own inspector and appraiser. What would a Redfin agent provide you that the listing agent won't? They have a bit of a conflict of interest too (no sale, no money). You already said the price is a good deal, so it's not like their "expertise" will help in evaluating price. All they do is provide you with boilerplate forms that they'll probably fill in wrong anyway. The only benefit of a Redfin agent is the refund/discount, and you said the listing agent would do the same. Plus, if the listing agent gives you back 2% of the 6% commission, he/she's making an extra 1% over the typical 3%, so he/she may be more inclined to go with you than someone else who brings their own agent.

grywlfbg says

then when we told her about the rebate told us that SHE could work a similar deal. Uh yeah. There is NO WAY I am going to ask the listing agent to be my buyer’s agent. Conflict of interest anyone?

You do realize that when you have the listing agent be your buyer's agent, you get a better deal? If she got just half of what the buyer's agent would be getting, she's still making more money than she would have been just being the listing agent.

so he/she may be more inclined to go with you than someone else who brings their own agent.

This is a big problem. It seems the listing agents don't want to accept reasonable offers from buyers who are represented by other agents for fear of having to split the commission. I made an offer on a home for 200k (very distressed property) Listing agent would not even entertain the offer. I was willing to negotiate and go as far as 230k. We had to threaten her in order for her to deliver the offer (still not sure if she actually did). She said her buyer refused. She later brought in her own buyer and sold for 210k. Like I said, I would have gone up to 230k had she come back with a counter.

I am currently looking at a house that assessed out at 309k two years ago. They are asking 327k today. The comps are 310k, 265k and 285k. All three sold 6 months ago. Market has been steadily descending for the past 2 years. The house that was 310k is a comp but it is also 1100 sft larger than the home for sale. I put an offer of 280k. The listing agent was disgusted. What on earth is going on?????? When I asked to see the comps he used to price the house, he says he doesn't have time for this too busy. What???

rubyrae says

The house that was 310k is a comp but it is also 1100 sft larger than the home for sale. I put an offer of 280k. The listing agent was disgusted. What on earth is going on?????? When I asked to see the comps he used to price the house, he says he doesn’t have time for this too busy. What???

Submit the same offer to the seller bypassing the agent altogether. Tell the seller what their agent said about your offer. Worst case scenario is the seller concurs with their agent, but there's a good chance you may end up getting another lying, self-serving agent fired.

I had the same thing happen at an open house in Simi Valley a week ago. When the broker could see I wasn't a "bend over", and that we shared some things in common...he told me not to buy for 3-5 years! I was blown away.

My loan officer recently told me about a close friend who's in the REO dept at BofA who told her that they have 100,000 properties they would be releasing for sale in the first 6 mos or so of this year.

Little more info on my situation. Turns out the agent showing the home was NOT the listing agent - she works in the same office as the listing agent and was just hosting the open houses for him. But still, my statement above stands. I have been using redfin to search for houses for years and so I want to give back. Also, during this offering process the redfin agent has been very responsive and none of his statements have kicked off my BS meter. He's letting me drive - answering questions and/or offering advice when I ask but otherwise doing what I ask. So far I'm happy.

rubyrae says

This is a big problem. It seems the listing agents don't want to accept reasonable offers from buyers who are represented by other agents for fear of having to split the commission.

same issue here in houston. there is a agent law with the realtors that they will not even write up or present any offer for less than list price and lie that they have several over listing price offers already but nothing ever sells.

Unknown says

same issue here in houston...and lie that they have several over listing price offers already but nothing ever sells.

That is a region, national, and international problem it seems with realtors. Pretty much uncovered in Canada and Australia. Many havent woken up to the practice exists here in the USA.

It will be the third and last leg to fall in the correction (aka recovery).

Same thing going on in southern cali, if you don't go with the listing agent you lose, If they represent the buyer and seller, they simply say to their buyer "you might have to up your offer a little since i've had an offer come in from another agent" Since they also represent the buyer, as a buyer you ask what would you suggest? So your offer will be beat out by a few thousand. And you woun't get the chance to put in a higher offer. And they can represent it as the best offer to the bank or seller.

klarek says

Wow, agents telling the truth? No wonder NAR sees Redfin as a threat.

I wouldn't bank on the whole "dam is ready to break" theory on the shadow inventory. I've been hearing rumors like this for over 2.5 years. But they're likely right that prices are going to continue to fall.

The reality NAR faces is that their entire business is based on lack of transparency in the real estate market. As long as the buyer does not know anything about all the other properties and values NAR can be a profit machine middle man.

But with online mls they aren't needed anymore. RedFin is something like 20/month, thats a lot less than paying some jackass 6% of the property value.

It's going to be painful for NAR types, real estate data is all online, there are multiple online mls, all county assessor data is online too. realtors are doomed.

Barney_Franks says

Don't ask realtors about when is a good time to buy period. Make your own judgement on stats and independent research (avoiding NAR stats). The truth is, nobody is 100% but some will of course guess right!

I have never heard a Realtor® say "it's a bad time to buy". Never.

Make your own bottom, make offers 20% less then listing price.

Meditate ; Why did Real Property sales prices become detached from reality ?

When you have the answer, you will KNOW true value.

hint: 1973 then 1983

TMAC54 says

Why did Real Property sales prices become detached from reality

people willing and able to gamble with OPM, mainly. Plus the self-feeding nature of real estate speculation, valuations going up 2002-2003 due to interest rate drops brought more speculation into the market, the 20% gains of 2004 brought even more, and the new suicide loans added fuel to the fire in many areas, but by 2Q05 the party was over and the unwinding was to begin.

Texas did not experience a bubble because they had sounder lending standards. The looser the standards, the bigger the bubble.

We're buying a house through Redfin right now. My agent actually encouraged me NOT to bid any higher during a multiple offer situation. He advised me that we would probably be outbid given how many parties were bidding and what the listing agent had told him, but he thought that the house was going to be bid up higher than it was worth. That is exactly what happened. We were outbid, but the party that outbid us ended up walking away from the deal in the end. We put in a second offer right away when we found out, and got the house for effectively $12k less than we bid the first time around (and I'm guessing >$20k less than the original winning bidder was going to pay). Good call on the part of our Redfin agent! It proves to me that he is on our side and not just trying to close a deal at any cost to us.

To David Losh and anybody else saying that Redfin tries to target you with a "hot deal" after earning your trust: that has not happened to me in my 9+ months of dealing with Redfin. The only homes I have ever seen with Redfin have been homes that I specifically requested to see. The only marketing materials I receive from them are emails that I opted to receive (that are customized to show me only the homes and areas that I have favorited). So really, I think that you have no idea what you are talking about.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Then you can pick up a house for the price of a good used car, which is a reasonable price for a box with a door.

"Box with a door" is excellent! Never heard it put that way before.

FF says

To David Losh and anybody else saying that Redfin tries to target you with a "hot deal" after earning your trust: that has not happened to me in my 9+ months of dealing with Redfin. The only homes I have ever seen with Redfin have been homes that I specifically requested to see. The only marketing materials I receive from them are emails that I opted to receive (that are customized to show me only the homes and areas that I have favorited). So really, I think that you have no idea what you are talking about.

realtors are starting to advertise on patrick.net now.

EMan says

FF says

To David Losh and anybody else saying that Redfin tries to target you with a "hot deal" after earning your trust: that has not happened to me in my 9+ months of dealing with Redfin. The only homes I have ever seen with Redfin have been homes that I specifically requested to see. The only marketing materials I receive from them are emails that I opted to receive (that are customized to show me only the homes and areas that I have favorited). So really, I think that you have no idea what you are talking about.

realtors are starting to advertise on patrick.net now.

wtf are you talking about? I have had the exact same experience, which is why I started this thread. The Redfin agent we work with has been incredible, a big reason we have not bought is because of his guidance. He even knows we are approved for 200k more than what we want to spend and he has advised against bidding up on properties.

I have dealt with dozens of horrible Realtors, but all the Redfin agents have been awesome.

Tude maybe that one agent is great. Telling someone that all of them are ethical because of a single experience is very naive. When ethics becomes a trend this topic can be revisited.

Everyones experience with realtors or people in real estate industry has been hurt with insane realtor conflict of interest. Maybe Redfin agents are better, but I'll only agree with that when enough evidence over time there to support that.

1973 banks doubled the amount a family could borrow for home purchases.

1983 the computer was introduced.

Drop all the complicated mythological and intentional confusing formulae.

The more we make the more we spend !!! We don't make as much as we did during the information age infancy.

FOHO says

Come-on people, Redfin makes money from selling houses (and your browsing history). They are not the federal government. They can't print money to pay their "field agents." At the end of the day, they have to compete with other "realtors" and try to sell YOU a house.

Matt from Redfin here. Redfin does not sell your browsing history. Redfin only makes money when you buy or sell a home with our agents or partner agents.

Its not about price...it's not about interest rate...it's about affordabilty...no other time in history have we had low prices and low interest rates. Stop trying to time the market..no one can. The one thing you can count on is inflation so you'd better own something other than cash.

Read my blog here: http://www.reoavenue.com/crystal-ball/

AW says

no other time in history have we had low prices and low interest rates.

When interest rates are low the marked is rigged to be inflated above it's real market value. You can not have low prices with low interest rates.

Learn about things before you give advice on them and stop spamming.

PS. If you're not incompetent - you are probably a shill.

MCMSinger says

you are probably a shill.

Yeah, it's a shill directing us to his/her site. The comment is mostly nonsensical.

AW says

Its not about price...it's not about interest rate...it's about affordabilty...no other time in history have we had low prices and low interest rates. Stop trying to time the market..no one can. The one thing you can count on is inflation so you'd better own something other than cash.

Read my blog here: http://www.reoavenue.com/crystal-ball/

Nice first post. LOL.