patrick.net

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

If you really live that frugally and can save $60k in 6 months just buy a house already, even if it drops in value, you can make it up easily. It sure beats being sour and stressed out about when the market will drop another 3-5-x percent.

ih8alameda says

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

You forgot the fact that you just need to go out there and get yourself one of the executive level jobs. I wish I would have just thought of that!

ih8alameda says

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

If you really live that frugally and can save $60k in 6 months just buy a house already, even if it drops in value, you can make it up easily. It sure beats being sour and stressed out about when the market will drop another 3-5-x percent.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Sure- it sounds like there's some people here who make a ton of money. I do pretty well but it sounds like I'm sort of in the middle compared to most of the folks here.

That said, I did not go to an ivy league school. In fact, my first 2 years were in community college. I transferred to a 4 year college after that ( you could do that back then) and basically came out with no college debt. But... the job market SUCKED when I graduated and I worked minimum wage jobs for 3 years afterwards. It didn't bother me as I had worked such jobs since I was 16. But after having done that and spent years scraping by I had a very keen appreciation of money when I landed my first "real" job. It took me almost 3 years to save $10,000 working at those low income jobs. Something that I was very proud of. In the last 7-8 years I can save a lot more then that in a year. But- having said that, if you've worked in a job where you make squat for years, you learn what "working for a living" is all about. Its hard. Its not easy. So you better bet that I count every single penny because I don't ever want to go back to making nothing for a living. I intend to never be put into that situation again and thus why I save as much as I can. If I had not had that experience of seeing what its like to live off of $8 an hour perhaps I'd be some big spendthrift and own a new Bimmer every 5 years. In a way I'm glad I had that experience. You learn how much a dollar is really worth.

bubblesburst says

I've been fortunate that I've had executive level jobs all my life and made great income.

Your first job(s) was (were) executive level? How did that come about? Even assuming a great education and resume, most people have to start below that, unless they have some special connections, nepotism, etc.

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

It is worth noting that those who were able to buy often sacrified in other areas, by driving old cars, not eating out, living cheaply, etc. It also makes some sense that those who are worried about what a $4 Starbucks a day adds up to over the weeks, months, and years, are going to be worried about buying and losing any money on their investment. To have nice cars and take vacations etc you either need to not worry as much about if and when you buy a house, or you need more money.

I always wonder this. But don't have any answer to it

dodgerfanjohn says

burritos says

JonnyG says

When I had extra money, you bought a ski boat and a nice vacation. I never took vacations for more than a couple days in my 20's and 30's and I invested any extra money in my own business.

When you missed payments occasionally and didn't work to protect your credit, I used my good credit to take out out loans for my business.

When you were avoiding risk, I put everything I had into my business and risked it all for 20 years.

Now that I am in my 40's I have some money in the bank. Go figure.

Good job. If 1/4 of the Americans were this industrious, we'd be in good shape. Unfortunately it's probably less than 1%.

What was the point of life again?

I think some people do miss point of life. We are all only young once.

All these old billionaires/millionaires out there, they'd give up every penny of their wealth just to be young again.

I'm not retired, but even at my age I do have regrets of not doing certain things when I was younger that simply are just not possible at my age anymore.

Dan8267 says

agrifolia says

For me it's about half inheritance from grandparents and half saved income from being longtime DINK (until recently).

Wow, Dink. Haven't heard that acronym in 20 years.

because you don't live in the Bay Area of CA which is Dink-ville.

EMan says

All these old billionaires/millionaires out there, they'd give up every penny of their wealth just to be young again.

I'm not retired, but even at my age I do have regrets of not doing certain things when I was younger that simply are just not possible at my age anymore.

all in your head maybe? we all set our own limits. what about the 65 year old yoga student in my class I attend.

or the guy with a traumatic brain injury working at Trader Joes.
makes me think many more things are really possible. Our limits are self imposed most of the time IMHO.

SF ace says

Me and my GF (now spouse) bought our SFH in San francisco for 729K in 2001 after renting together for one year.

I doubt it, considering you can't even get the name of Pacific Heights right. What part of SF?

SF ace says

Me and my GF (now spouse) bought our SFH in San francisco for 729K in 2001 after renting together for one year. borrowed 35K from my side and 35K from her side

This would be a violation of most lenders' rules, by the way - that side money would have to be an outright gift to be OK under pretty much all traditional lender loan scenarios.

JG1 says

Your first job(s) was (were) executive level? How did that come about? Even assuming a great education and resume, most people have to start below that, unless they have some special connections, nepotism, etc.

Yes. That is right. No nepotism. Just lots of hard work. My first job out of college I got recruited to do recruiting. I actually started out as a Research Assistant but I quickly got promoted to a Recruiter due to all the money I was bringing in for the company. I believe it was within 6 months. I was working something like 17 hour days. I was really 'hungry' to grow career-wise. I made 6 figures + my first year out of college. By year #2, I made over $250,000.

You have to remember I was only 23 years old and making great money. Instead of going out and blowing it all on fancy cars, fancy trips, etc..... I saved it and invested it.

And it was after my 2nd year working that I got recruited to go work at another company as a Vice President of Marketing. I worked there many years, made Partner and then started my own business that was also successful.

I'm not sure why people have to assume there were special favors, nepotism or that it can't be done. I realize I wasn't the typical kid coming out of college making peanuts but I made my own way. I graduated from University with almost $100,000 in student loans. I put myself through college. No one gave me anything. All that I have is all that I earned myself through hard work and long hours.

I was a millionaire before I turned 30. A multi-millionaire before I turned 35. I'm NOT posting this to brag at all. Just pointing out that it can be done. But again, it took a LOT of hard work, sacrifice and long hours working. I figure if I can do it others can do it.

As E Man correctly pointed out, America truly is the land of opportunities. It seems these days people assume that anyone that has lots of money inherited it or won the lottery but that isn't the case. There are lots of people that just flat out worked really hard and were smart with their money. These days many people want to get something for nothing and that isn't the way to get ahead and get wealthy.

Eman, thanks for sharing your story. I always like hearing stories of how successful people made their own way and built up their net worth. Especially in this day and age where so many people want to try to get ahead without working hard or trying to rip people off. I read some threads on Patrick.net where people talk about trying to cheat the bank, or stop paying for 5 years or this or that ... I get a laugh at those kinds of posts.... you can never truly get ahead and build up net worth that way.

No offense intended. When you said your first job was at the executive level, I think folks here are picturing you starting as the vice president of a company or something, which strikes them, and me, as odd. Starting as reasearch assistant makes more sense.

I worked as hard as you did after college, but I had the bad luck or bad foresight to be in an industry and position where this produced no financial rewards to me beyond a salary.

In other words, it pays to work hard at a commission based or self employed situation. Working really hard at a salaried job for someone else may get your a promotion, a little bit of a bonus, but doesn't generally have the same financial rewards or the immediacy of connection to effort and reward.

Also, I suspect part of the reason everyone on here says they worked for their money is because those who inherited it or were gifted it or what have you, probably don't want to say and expose themselves to potential (jealous) ridicule.

JG1 says

No offense intended. When you said your first job was at the executive level, I think folks here are picturing you starting as the vice president of a company or something, which strikes them, and me, as odd. Starting as reasearch assistant makes more sense.

I worked as hard as you did after college, but I had the bad luck or bad foresight to be in an industry and position where this produced no financial rewards to me beyond a salary.

In other words, it pays to work hard at a commission based or self employed situation. Working really hard at a salaried job for someone else may get your a promotion, a little bit of a bonus, but doesn't generally have the same financial rewards or the immediacy of connection to effort and reward.

Also, I suspect part of the reason everyone on here says they worked for their money is because those who inherited it or were gifted it or what have you, probably don't want to say and expose themselves to potential (jealous) ridicule.

Hey JG1,

No offense taken at all friend. :)

No, my first job wasn't an "executive level job". But within 6 months I got a promotion due to the money I was bringing in. You're right that my first job was commission based so if I didn't produce then I wouldn't make money. So nothing was automatic. My other job did have a big base salary but much of the bonuses were also dependent on how much money I brought in for the company.

But I do agree with you it doesn't just take hard work. Lots of people work hard but they might not get ahead. I'm not sure if I consider it "luck" because I think in life people make their own luck. But definitely I do feel lucky in many ways.

I do agree with you that there are lots of people out there that had/have Trust funds, wealthy family, etc. I always had a low opinion of many of those types. Not all, but definitely there were many guys in my Fraternity that were that type. They were for the most part lazy, knew they could fall back on their money. Their family just gave them credit cards where they paid for everything. (Many of them were on the '6 or 7 year plan' and stayed in College forever as they didn't want to grow up and get jobs.

I agree with you JG1 about the jealous ridicule. But then again you have some ignorant people on this forum. One poster the other day made the post that no one with money should be on the Internet or bother posting and some other ignorant comments. You have bitter people like that that resent anyone with a high net worth and that is simply ignorant and wrong.

bubblesburst says

I agree with you JG1 about the jealous ridicule. But then again you have some ignorant people on this forum. One poster the other day made the post that no one with money should be on the Internet or bother posting and some other ignorant comments. You have bitter people like that that resent anyone with a high net worth and that is simply ignorant and wrong.

That was me, and I am far from ignorant. As a matter of fact I find typically the biggest ignorant assholes are usually the ones running around calling other people ignorant while talking about how special they themselves are.

I just think you are a tool who thinks he is better than everyone else. I'm guessing you bought your way into a Fraternity at some Ivy League school or similar (how else would someone have 100k of college debt at the age of 23 what must have been 15 years ago??). I have known many people just like you, most of the "hard work" was hours and hours of networking.

But that's right, I'm just "jealous" and "ignorant", it has nothing to do with the fact that people like yourself are f'ing the world up for 95% of the population.

Tude says

That was me, and I am far from ignorant. As a matter of fact I find typically the biggest ignorant assholes are usually the ones running around calling other people ignorant while talking about how special they themselves are.

I just think you are a tool who thinks he is better than everyone else. I'm guessing you bought your way into a Fraternity at some Ivy League school or similar (how else would someone have 100k of college debt at the age of 23 what must have been 15 years ago??). I have known many people just like you, most of the "hard work" was hours and hours of networking.

But that's right, I'm just "jealous" and "ignorant", it has nothing to do with the fact that people like yourself are f'ing the world up for 95% of the population.

Tude said, "Whatever. WTF are you doing on here? WTF are you even on the internet for? 1 million in cash to drop on a house and you ever lay eyes on a f'ing computer let alone post on a internet forum?"

Enough said....

Tude, you might not be ignorant but some of the things you said and how you said them come across as totally ignorant.

I didn't claim to be special and I'm not. I merely posted facts which is what this forum is all about... so people can grow and learn. You can never stop learning and growing no matter how much money you may or may not have.

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I don't wish you any ill will but it's obvious you have some chip on your shoulder.

Sorry to burst your bubble (no pun intended!) but it wasn't networking at all. It was actual work. Long hard hours on the phone, cold calling candidates, working with candidates looking to place them, etc.

You say ignorant things like how hard working people are "f'ing the world up for 95% of the population". Things like that are just ignorant. You have a problem with someone that worked hard all their life and was able to purchase a home with cash.

I wish you the best.

bubblesburst says

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I don't wish you any ill will but it's obvious you have some chip on your shoulder.

that's probably why he's called "Tude"

Some of the negative attitude comes from the media because "if it bleeds, it reads". The media also reports more that would not be reported in the past thanks to more communications.

Some might get jealous of those with more "stuff" so to speak. I don't because I am in good health and much of what I see is going down in price.

Years ago there was a book called Nickeled and Dimed came out that tried to imply how bad the market is (this was pre bubble). The author made serious flaws
http://www.iwf.org/inkwell/show/16740.html

Here's the book
http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805063897

Then Scratch Beginnings came out that largely debunked it by doing nearly the same thing
http://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Beginnings-Search-American-Dream/dp/0061714275/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Unfortunately a fair amount of people do not plan in their life. I see this happen time and again. You should always have a plan B if not a plan C. I am not suggesting that it has to be higher education. It can be a trade school, culinary school..heck meat cutters at butcher shops make decent pay if you can stand the cold and dealing with meat all the time.

I do not believe that having a certain "think" at a given point in ones life means success. If you want kids that's fine but that is not for everyone..same with having a house..same with having kids..same with going to school.

A decade ago I used to have long winded debates with a guy from Thailand when he said that "Being the richest man in the world is not necessarily the one that has the most but the one that needs the least" There is a difference between controlling your life and letting your life control you.

Hysteresis says

bubblesburst says

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I don't wish you any ill will but it's obvious you have some chip on your shoulder.

that's probably why he's called "Tude"

The only chip I have on my shoulder is the one that is there because there truly IS a limit to everything. The more one person takes, the less there is for others. Part of the problems of this world is the "greed is good" attitude and the idea that one cannot have enough stuff. The problem is, that isn't true. The more a smaller percentage of the population takes, the less there is for others. A typical example of this are the traitors of this nation that sell out the working people of this country for more and more profits for themselves.

I live a simple life because I truly believe in conservation. I went from a homeless, high school dropout to a professional with a six-figure salary. I know all about hard work, and I know that I am smarter and better at what I do then most of the management all the way up to the C-level but there's not a chance in hell for me to get there. I personally know some of the Masters of the Universe, I know what drives them and I know how they got there. And there's not a single molecule in my body that is jealous of any of them, quite the opposite.

Tude,

Well congrats for what you've accomplished if you went from homelessness to accomplished professional. That's quite something to be proud of.

I never said "greed is good" and I don't consider myself as someone that is greedy. I consider that type of person the Bernie Madoffs of the world or the people on Wall Street. I'm far from that type.

I don't consider buying a big house as being greedy. I have 2 kids with plans to have more and I want to do the best I can to provide for them which includes having a bigger house and unfortunately real estate in San Diego is still expensive in the best school districts. In my quest to not try to be greedy and be super conservative, I paid for the house with cash after I saved up for many years. So that is why I was confused when you attacked me.

If I was greedy, I'd leverage to the max and try to use that money to make more money. That isn't my philosophy in life and I don't tend to buy anything until I save up and can pay for it without taking on debt. FAR from what the greedy type do.

And working hard and saving up for a house is not "taking". I know that many on this forum are against owning vs. renting. But even using Patrick's calculator, it makes sense to buy for me as I'm buying for the long-term and renting something comparable is about $5,000 to $6,000 per month which still doesn't make sense to pay for renting long term.

I don't have any problem with people that have/want a simple life.

I also don't consider myself as a "Master of the Universe". Just a guy that always worked hard, saved up so I could provide the best life for my family. Nothing more and nothing less. While it's true that I own several properties..... I always save up until I can pay cash for a property before buying. I don't use leverage at all which is the exact opposite of all the Masters of the Universe out there.

I take it back that you are jealous after reading your last post. But your last post comes across as much different than your previous posts.

Take care.

Tude says

I find typically the biggest ignorant assholes are usually the ones running around calling other people ignorant while talking about how special they themselves are

Sounds like you spend a lot of Quality Time among the Cool, Hip (and Beautiful) in the Bay Area.

Sybrib says

Sounds like you spend a lot of Quality Time among the Cool, Hip (and Beautiful) in the Bay Area.

Yep ... straight out of the East Coast.. 'cause they are special!
Jez!
Will someone please throw me a Coors!

"The only chip I have on my shoulder is the one that is there because there truly IS a limit to everything. The more one person takes, the less there is for others."

What items would that be classified under? Scarcity is based on aggregate demand not individual. In terms of money (i.e. credit) that still wouldn't work because the sources are printing presses not rich people themselves. One might argue we had other forms long ago (as your parents/grandparents about s&h greenstamps)

Are there national and international companies that have more sway? Yes but they still can collapse. Just look at Borders. It takes me only seconds to find a independent book store near me.

"A typical example of this are the traitors of this nation that sell out the working people of this country for more and more profits for themselves."

But ownership is control and we've known it's control for quite a long time. The internet acts as a equalizer. Of course a company is going to believe flattering statements about themselves since chances are they made it up as PR. If we didn't have the desire to profit then we wouldn't have any economy. In the soviet union doctors made as much as janitors so why bother being a doctor? If there is an incentive to do something then people will do it.

Sybrib says

Sounds like you spend a lot of Quality Time among the Cool, Hip (and Beautiful) in the Bay Area.

What is your beef with the Bay Area? You repeat this nonsense in almost every thread. I'm sure your response will be "you must be from the 'cool, hip' Bay Area" because you have very little of substance to say. Maybe you're one of those ironic hipsters who lives in SF and think of yourself as "post-modern" because you make this complaint?

No beef.

Since I have lived here my whole life I have been privileged to share space with hipsters from all over the USA (and other places) who have chosen to come here because they are Hipper and Cooler and Smarter than the folks they Left Behind.

Maybe you are one of them.

PersainCAT says

My parents bought my car for me when i turned 17, and also paid 100% of my college. They also have offered me up to 100k if i wanted to buy a house. I refuse though, they got me to adulthood debt free, i'll take over from there.

As for all cash of buying a house, i save about 30% of my after tax income and have since i graduated college so I'd fall into #1. Of course I'm not near 300k in cash, but i continue to save up....however given time or a move to a non-DC suburb i can see having enough cash to flat out buy.

As well I personally dont want to own a 1 bedroom condo for 250-300k and then have condo fees too. And i find something inherently wrong when the lowest detached house is 450K+ so I'll continue to rent the cheapest apartment i can find until i cant justify it financially.

PersianCAT,

I for one think it's GREAT that your parents were so great with you and got you off to a great start on life. I think if parents can pay for their kid's college education it's one of the best things that they can do for their kids.

I wasn't fortunate enough to be in that position as I came from a BIG family and my parents spent quite a bit of money sending all of us to private schools growing up.

I plan on doing the same as your parents did for you with my kids. We're saving like crazy now that they are young taking advantage of compound interest. We plan to also buy them a car when they are 16/17 (if they get GREAT grades..we'll use it as an incentive). As well, we'll pay for their entire college education and like your parents, we'll offer to put down a down payment on a house for them.

I wish I was in that position at least with college being paid for. Someone questioned how you could graduate with over $100,000 in university loans for just an undergraduate degree. Really it isn't tough these days. Even at a State University when you add up tuition, room and board, books, just general cost of living and other events/trips, etc. It's not hard to do that and in 15+ years when our kids are in college I can't imagine how much it will cost then.

Sybrib says

Since I have lived here my whole life I have been privileged to share space with hipsters from all over the USA (and other places) who have chosen to come here because they are Hipper and Cooler and Smarter than the folks they Left Behind.

Maybe you are one of them.

No, actually. I make fun of hipsters all the time. And in fact, I have criticized people who want to make San Francisco the opposite of their podunk home town, as I believe I've stated on Patrick.net before:

http://patrick.net/?p=787245#comment-743687

Another great description I've heard before is that San Francisco is full of people who are 6s but think they're 9s. Again, brought on by the podunk factor.

My main point is that I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by repeating the same thing over and over. Maybe a lot of people just put you on "ignore."

Certainly the hipsters do.

PersainCAT, do you mind answering few questions?

What do you mean by saying non-DC suburb? It is amazing when I saw people in Haymarket VA or Fredrick MD like to think there in DC suburb, which I think is sort of ridiculous.

What's inherently wrong about 450K+ detached house? Are you talking about the price or something else?

ih8alameda says

Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

If you really live that frugally and can save $60k in 6 months just buy a house already, even if it drops in value, you can make it up easily. It sure beats being sour and stressed out about when the market will drop another 3-5-x percent.

Entirely possible. I did it so I know it can be done.

Well, we drive a 3 year old (own) and a 1 year old (work leased car). Me and my wife make slightly under 200K (on the books) and another 40K a year under-the-table.

We both have white collar jobs but we both hustle. I sell salvage merchandise (as in people who forfeit their storage rental) at the flea market and she waitresses at a high end restaurant on the weekend. Both of the secondary income are cash n carry. We live off my wife's tips.

I am an executive at my job in Silicon Valley but I have no problem hustling at the flea market. Work is work. Surprisingly, none of my hooty co-workers or clients have even seen me at the flea market.

A few years back, I got mugged and decided to move away from where I live (gentrified ghetto). We decided to move back home to my parents so we both decided to go house hunting. We saved a lot of money that way and I have no problem w/ going back home to my parent's crib. With all of income, we spent less than 2% of our net income. We ended up getting a multi-unit property that generates very good cash flow; acting as a 3rd person income.

Flash forward to today. We are looking for a bigger house so we rented out all our current units in our multi-unit property. We moved right back home to grandmas while we house hunt for a bigger house in a nicer community. We have positive cash flow from our rental tenancy. We dropped our expenses back down to less than 5% of our net take-home. Gas, food, kid's childcare, all expenses are paid from my wife's tips at her waitressing job. All our W-2 income goes straight into savings. Banks scratch their head when they see our cash flow and see how all the savings have been accounted for. Pretty easy to get pre-qualified. We saved more than 60K in 5 months. Right now, we can't find the house we want so the 60K has jumped to 80K. We are in no big hurry. We are aggressively looking and making offers we think are fair (sellers might think we are low-balling). We are not really concerned about further drops in price. Our next home, we plan to live until my kids finish school.

I work in a high paying profession (IT), retired military, and live a simple life style. (I drive a 10 year old Honda)

I can think of nothing more tedious than listening to rich people brag. I have a suggestion for a magazine where all this can be published:

This is quite possibly the best thread I have read on Patrick.net, and certainly the one that inspired me to post a reply (although I am also quite fond of Apocalypse's posts).

I have massive respect for eastbaydude and others like him. While he could just get by comfortably on his salary while others wallow in self-pity, he puts his ego and pride aside and goes the extra mile for himself and his family.

Keep the posts coming, it's great to hear how people are making it happen in spite of economic difficulties.

I think a recurring theme here is "sacrifice", and if one is ready to do that, he/she has a much higher chance of succeeding at whatever is important to him/her.

Honestly, I got my money by saving after I strategically defaulted on my home.

I was able to take the 3K I was not paying in mortgage in addition to the 2K I was already saving in order to get off the mortgage/debt-slavery treadmill.

My parents helped me out but they were certainly not well off. The put $500 down on my first car- an 85' Toyota Celica ( this was back in 1993). They later helped me out with college. My Mother is a teacher and I got a steep discount for community college. I worked all through college. My dad had encouraged me to invest in stocks and mutual funds in high school and put a small amount in one for me when I was little. I added money from mowing lawns into it all through high school and that in turn paid for the last 2 years of college- which was at a 4 year school.

My first new vehicle was a 95' Tacoma. I still drive it and its got about 245,000 miles on it. It was the most bare bones basic model with cloth bench seats, manual transmission, crank windows and no power locks. As basic as they come. Yet it was new and I was very proud of it. Still am and that's why I still have it. I look at the cost of cars today- even the econ models- and its ridiculous how much they cost. $20k is a lot of dough for a stupid car. When I was younger and poor I lusted after new cars. I figured that once I started making decent money I'd buy one. Now that I do make good money I'd rather save the money for a house.

We don't plan on having kids. But if we did I'd probably do the same for them as my parents. I think all too often kids that are given everything on a plate- a new car, college, and so on often don't appreciate it and in many cases waste their college years. Sure- I'd help them out some, but if they really want to get a degree then they'll have to pay for it. It shows they're serious about it and will make sounder decisions. As far as cars- buying a new car for a teenager is ridiculous. Chances are they'll wreck it or trash it before they get into college. Once they're in college the car will either sit or get trashed more. A 5-10 year old car is perfectly sufficient to serve that purpose.

I join the others who are very thankful to their parents for their support during high school/college years.

Mine paid for most of my education at my state university, which was about $9k when I went there in the mid '90s -- I had an academic scholarship for $1k, put in $1k from my own jobs, and they paid the other $6k, leaving me debt-free.

And I had bottom-of-the-barrel jobs all through high school and college. Minimum wage; slavedriver bosses; that kind of thing. It was that or be unemployed.

I really wanted to study abroad, and didn't have the $7k I needed to do it until senior year, so I actually spent half a year abroad after already earning my diploma. When I signed up for the program, it was the first time in my life that I'd spent the entirety of my life's earnings in one big gulp -- buying my condo was the second -- but it was an investment that paid off very well.

I can't even imagine how miserable today's graduates are when they think of that massive debt load on their backs. My first job was a sleep-deprived hell of unpaid overtime and continuous exhaustion, and what kept me going was the knowledge that I could quit at any time with only minor repercussions. Quitting would have been unthinkable had I had $100k in student loans to pay off. Massive props to those of you who work those kinds of jobs -- I hope you're paid well for what they do to you.

PersainCAT, thanks for the answers.

I read both before and after the edit, and I am ok with both. I thought you might live somewhere in RT-29 near fairfax county government center. Now I think it's by bradock road near George Mason. The area is pretty nice, and I'd like to live there if, 1. I have money, and 2. I don't have to commute to DC. But 61% income for the housing? What do they thinking? It just is crazy.

Oh, by the way, you've seen this on the youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ltMTXlCvk

And you're right. Most homes here in 450K level are 50yr old entry level, the price is... simply wrong especially when think about how much they were 10 years ago. They were under 200K when the county median HH income were arround 80K. With 30% increase in HH income in last 10 years, we got 300% increase in home prices. That's just wrong. But I guess that's how it works in the area. Will it come down to understandable level, let say under 300K? I don't know. I used to live in rural area in western PA for few years, so... you know, I kinda know how you feel.

Again, thanks for the answers.

seaside says

They were under 200K when the county median HH income were arround 80K. With 30% increase in HH income in last 10 years, we got 300% increase in home prices.

Eventually back to normal trends.
http://www.housingbubblebust.com/OFHEO/Major/MidAtlantic.html

Ehem!!!!

Allow me. For those of you bitching about 800K homes in "quote"(TOT doing the finger thingie) "Your neighborhood"
Let me remind you...

If you have to ask, then you probably can't afford it.
That is NOT your neighborhood, you were supposed to just drive through and opine for the "one day, someday".

Go find a home with us cretins, NO you are not better than US, you are a middle class comon slob just like the rest of us.

Your sheer ignorance to not accept this reality, helps perpetuate the very thing, you are stunned by. You'rE in line for a house you can never afford, and by blindly participating in the "Willing Pool" of people that would pay that much, if you only had the cash.

You are insuring you never will. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay after all. And these days, wishing they could, counts as willing. Go away and comeback when the prices come back to reality. But as long as you stand at the foot of the palace gawking and fawning over the place you can't afford. then you never will.

Thank you and Good Night!

Note: dude lives in Cupertino.. guess he found a way to pay for that $1M pad... This is NOT an isolated case. I hope he burns in HELL for the next 20 years.