patrick.net

Blurtman says

what do you do?

Beat this already long dead story back to life??

Eating their faces is sensible.

Hey how many motorcycles in your garage Blurtman?

Blurtman said: You are out for a ride with your buddies and club members...
Admittedly, the NY Post may not be the best news source out there, but I think you're mischaracterizing what the bikers were doing out on the road.
The bikers ... first boxed him in to try to take over the West Side Highway to do reckless tricks, law-enforcement sources told The Post.
The bikers had already blocked off some highway entrances to keep drivers from getting onto the stretch near West 125th Street at around 1:30 p.m. Sunday, sources said.
NBC has a decent piece explaining the new breed of free-form, instant [sport bike] gangs.
Also, I haven't been totally impressed with the overall reporting on this story. Feel free to link in resources that may be useful. I'd especially like to see a timeline that correlates with the various other Stuntz activities that were going on in the city (and being thwarted by the police -- see the Times Square ride).

That will teach the biker for impeding the right of way of a larger heavier vehicle! If they want to use force and intimidation on their fellow motorists, they should be respectful of vehicles that could drive right over them. Bike

donjumpsuit says

First, I have to defend motorcycle riders, as I have for years, especially with the fact that drivers in California can't stand the fact that motorcyclists can split lanes and escape traffic while they have to wait their turn.

That's not what pisses off drivers of cars. What pisses of drivers of cars is that such idiotic driving leads to crashes where the car driver gets blamed when it is utterly unreasonable to expect the car driver to be aware of a motorcycle traveling between lanes at a speed of 50+ mph relative to the car driver. There's a limit to how quickly the human brain can update its model of surrounding traffic.

As someone who has ridden a motorcycle in his youth, I say that there is a reasonable expectation that motorcycle drivers don't do things that would result in a Darwin award, and if they do, they are solely to blame.

In any case, there is nothing that excuses the deliberate assault on the family in the car. There is no justification for breaking the window with a helmet and pulling out the driver to assault him.

Blurtman says

You are out for a ride with your buddies and club members, a maniac in an SUV runs over and very possibly kills someone and speeds off - what do you do?

You follow at a distance and phone the police. You do not start a reckless high speed chase that endangers the public only to assault the person you are assuming to be a maniac when he clearly cannot flee any further.

Blurtman says

Is Throwing a Water Bottle at Them Sensible?

Would firing a gun be more sensible? Granted, this happened in NY, not Florida, but there are gun advocates in NY as well.

donjumpsuit says

Nobody is going to shoot you dead. It's broad day light, and a tremendous amount of witnesses.

You have a car that can probably call the police itself, and I would bet in this day and age, the 2 year old probably had a cell phone.

Fearing for your life only would get worse, the more you damage other peoples motorcycles or people, so why would you make it worse. Where do you think you are escaping too that a motorcycle, check that, 100's of motorcycles can't catch you?

Unbelievable this guy hasn't been charged yet.

Hmmm... Have you familiarized yourself with the facts in this case? You don't seem to be aware that the driver DID call the police. In fact, there were off-duty police IN the biker gang who did nothing to stop the violence. Are you aware that the driver did not try escape until a mob surrounded his car, started pounding on it and trying to open the doors, and slashed his tire? Are you aware that they DID almost kill him, IN broad daylight, WITH witnesses, and likely would have if a bystander hadn't positioned himself between the gang and the victim to stop them? Doesn't seem like you're even talking about the same event.

donjumpsuit says

First, I have to defend motorcycle riders, as I have for years, especially with the fact that drivers in California can't stand the fact that motorcyclists can split lanes and escape traffic while they have to wait their turn.

You know, I hear that a lot, and maybe there are some drivers like that. I hear alleged stories from bikers claiming that car drivers opened their doors to block them, etc. That may have happened, but I have never seen it. In fact I have NEVER seen an adverse reaction to motorcycles splitting lanes, even though they routinely do it at unsafe speeds. My understanding is that the original purpose of splitting lanes was because air-cooled motors could overheat if the bike wasn't in motion. Now it has become "look how cool I am passing cars at 80mph". Even so, it seems to be well tolerated by car drivers in my experience.

On the other hand, I have witnessed countless examples of aggressive bikers with an obvious chip on their shoulder being rude and failing to share the road with others. Let me ask you a question - as a motorcycle rider, do you believe you automatically ALWAYS have the right of way, and that if you split lanes, that cars must move over or brake to allow you to weave in and out of traffic at will? Because it seems to me it should be the biker's responsibility to avoid obstacles, not "here I come - get the hell out of my way!" Almost every day, I see bikers who split lanes, and then get upset if a car doesn't practically slam on his brakes to let the biker back into the lane. Now, if I want to merge into a lane, I do not force my way in and hope the car I'm cutting off decides to brake, yet many bikers seem to believe this is standard practice, and even become upset and make rude gestures at drivers for not letting them do this. It's not lane-splitting that California driver's "can't stand", it's the aggressive and dangerous behavior that accompanies it. The way I see it, if you want to split lanes, then you take the risk for your unsafe behavior, and you shouldn't try to fob it off on other drivers. What do you think?

If he had had a turret mounted Gatling, he would not have needed the water bottle. (apologies to AF)

Blurtman says

. Of course they need to cover their tracks. "Save my baby!" But if you are so terrified, you don't risk an escalation by tossing a water bottle at these folks.

Any doubt that it was unreasonable to be fearful of their lives evaporates with the video of the assault. The fact that they were assaulted justifies their flight.

donjumpsuit says

In that quest he failed. He could have slowed himself until all the bikers passed, or pulled over safely. If he was restricted from pulling over, he could have just stopped and called 911.

The facts are clear. He hit the back wheel of a motorcycle. That is a violation. He then drove over a motorcycle and a human. That is also unacceptable.

Claim you are frightened all you want. Claim there was damage done to your vehicle prior to the video we all saw. That's fine. File a police report, and file and comprehensive insurance claim!

Spot on!

donjumpsuit says

When traffic is moving slower than 35mph, I can share a lane.

I do so in a proper manner.

We don't SEE you. What we DO see nearly daily, is some yahoo who is suddenly THERE a foot from my window blasting that Harley engine, startling the hell out of us, whipping between our slowed or stopped cars. California motorcyclists have one hell of a large PR problem right there.

All available data points to these NJ guys being jerks of the first order, you only have to look at their videos and count the moving violations.

We actually had an incident similar to this in Ess Eff with a minivan bumping a bike. Thankfully no one was beaten.
The whole NY incident has been fairly instructive; I had never heard of the whole sport bike culture. Previously, if surrounded by motorcycles, I may have reacted much like the SUV driver. Now I know to pull over and watch the party (believe me, that is very counterintuitive).

donjumpsuit says

I can see there is no way of convincing anyone that most motorcyclists are good people, and are type casted by the behavior of a few individuals.

Also, it was primarily a Negro biker gang. A gang of lawless Negroes on bikes. My Gawd, Save My Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Having had kids a few years ago I stopped riding, but for over 20 years I rode; many of those years I rode as a daily commute; I have also ridden across the US once, and up-and-down the West Coast many times.

When safe -- well admittedly I have been unsafe -- I will lane-split. For many of the reasons already noted by donjumpsuit I believe that it is safer than riding in traffic and beneficial for all.

I have never break-checked, hit mirrors, etc., but I have known bikers who have proudly admitted to it.

The worst intentional thing I have had car drivers do to me is try and squeeze the space to prevent me from lane-splitting. It is pretty uncommon, but it is stupid, dangerous and the type of thing that bikers hit or kick off a rear-view mirror for.

Many times (some weeks it would happen every day) I have had maliciousness cars merge into my lane almost hitting me without even knowing that I am there. Once, I had a car open a door in front of me while I was lane-splitting. It was a car of guys sitting in traffic at the Bay Bridge toll plaza doing an oh-so amusing seat swap. The front passenger door swung open, they guy popped out, and I came to a stop about a foot from me and 500lbs of motorcycle pinning him to that door. After I rolled my bike back far enough for him to close the door, he slinked back into his seat presumably with the contents of his bowels now filling his pants.

Anyway, while some need to pay better attention to the road, most drivers cars or motorcycles are perfectly nice pleasant people to share the road with...

The bikers around the SUV seemed to have a lot of assholes amongst them.

What do the videos and "uninvolved" witnesses show...?
1. The SUV being surrounded by bikes. Once in a pack of bikes the best course is just to keep a constant speed and stay in your lane. Has anyone here ever tried to merge into a lane filled with bikes, in order to move over for them? I haven't because it would be fucking stupid and dangerous.

2. A biker being an idiot and break-checking the SUV. Break-check enough vehicles and you are eventually going to get hit.

3. The SUV driver stopping after the accident. The SUV getting surrounded by aggressive bikers, the tires getting spiked (yes, there are later images of the SUV on only rims, and it would take minimal investigative work for the cops to pick-up the rubber and determine what happened -- not that I would accuse cops of actually doing their jobs). After getting swarmed and having his vehicle attacked the driver takes off.

4. The driver stops again and stays still as bikes pullup around him, and he stays still until after the bikers try and enter his vehicle.

5. The third time the driver stops he is stuck, and the bikers promptly attack his vehicle smash the windows (one window smashed by a cop riding with the bikers -- I guess it is instinct for cops to attack people who run from them) drag him and beat him until witnesses intervene. A witness also prevents the bikers who were trying to drag the woman passenger from the car.

******

What do the bikers say in their defense, that is not seen on any videos or witnessed by any by standers...?

1. One biker says he may have seen the driver (or passenger) throw a water bottle -- or something that looks like a water bottle -- out the sunroof of the car.

donjumpsuit says

The facts are clear. He hit the back wheel of a motorcycle. That is a violation. He then drove over a motorcycle and a human. That is also unacceptable.

If someone cuts you off then slows significantly it is their fault if they get hit. The problem is that usually there is no proof that they did this and the person behind is blamed. Well...unless someone was taking video of the indecent. Fortunately for the SUV driver this was the case.

The biker was trying to stop the SUV so the "gang" could show off with their sweet "stuntz" on a "private" piece of highway. Hell, he was doing the SUV a favor and giving them a front row seat to the show. Unfortunately, he misjudged his speed, distance and reaction time of the driver and got hit. This is unacceptable (and a violation -- well, many violations)

Unfortunately, the other bikers reacted violently. Had they only approached the down biker to help him, and said oops he fucked-up, sorry about that. The SUV driver never would have had cause to flee hitting the only biker that actually did possibly go to help the down biker. This is also unacceptable

Nice summary Leo!
Everyone consider for a minute how this incident would look to the international community. It would look damn scary! If you're an Asian driving in NYC a gang of bikers may roll up and you may end up beaten nearly to death! Ack! That'll drive away some tourist dollars! And think how it would look if they also charged the SUV driver with a crime? Outrage! Scandal! Stay away from NYC if you value your life and freedom!!!
The cops and the justice dept know this and there's no possible way they will prosecute anyone who wasn't riding a bike that day. Period.

On personal opinion, if it had been me I woulda drove over more of them. Assholes! It should have been possible to intentionally wreck a few bikes by sideswiping them into the median. Take out enough of them and you can eliminate crime! It's a civic duty to kill biker gangs!

donjumpsuit says

I am not here to defend those motorcyclists in New York for supposedly "SLASHING THE TIRES" of that SUV (even though the rest of the video shows the tires are unslashed and just fine.

I had the same thought until I saw these pictures:

From these pictures its clear the front passenger side tire suffered heavy damage (presumably slashed)

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

I guess he'll be outfitting his next Range Rover with twin Gatling guns for wife and daughter to handle intrusions by bikers.

Why blow almost $800k on a pair of Gatling guns?

$80k of Ma Deuce will do just fine. That leaves $720k for smokescreens, minelayers and JATO rockets

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

New Renter says

Why blow almost $800k on a pair of Gatling guns?

$80k of Ma Deuce will do just fine. That leaves $720k for smokescreens, minelayers and JATO rockets

Nice planning.

I'm available for consulting.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

The rocket angle is cool.

Have you talked to Range Rover about a customized sedan?

A Cannibal Anarchymobile?

Tried to but their Ford overlords wouldn't go for it.

Maybe now they'll play ball. The oligarchs of the nouveau world order demand it!

If you're going to get a Range Rover, you should go whole hog and get an armored one.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/mb7T_dHOyJE

Vicente says

If you're going to get a Range Rover, you should go whole hog and get an armored one.

Those bastards clearly stole the mine layer and smokescreen from my proposal!

Still I'd love to see how their armor holds up against a Barrett.

New Renter says

Those bastards clearly stole the mine layer and smokescreen from my proposal!

Just paint yours in American Flag motif. It'll sell like hotcakes!

donjumpsuit says

The emotion you are showing towards a few lazy bikers who seem to show poor judgement is influencing your opinion of the group at large. It's a dangerous position to be in.

donjumpsuit says

First, I have to defend motorcycle riders, as I have for years, especially with the fact that drivers in California can't stand the fact that motorcyclists can split lanes and escape traffic while they have to wait their turn.

Don't you think this statement you made earlier shows emotion towards a few car drivers and is influencing YOUR opinion of the group at large? Don't you think you're painting "drivers in California" with a pretty broad brush?

You have, what? one example of a person opening his door, where you're not even sure if it was deliberately to block you, and a couple people who you believe moved over too far in the lane? And your conclusion is that ALL California drivers are against lane splitting?

donjumpsuit says

Lastly, it is highly beneficial for motorcyclists to be able to both split lanes and use the car pool.

More motorcyclists take cars off the road and reduce congestion.

Lane splitting and carpooling are benefits to get people on motorcycles, especially in fair weather year round states like CA, where traffic congestion and air quality is a problem.

Even on the most inefficient motorcycle, you are still getting 35-40mpg.

Less parking both street and lot is necessary the more motorcyclists there are.

Strawman argument. Nobody here said they are against motorcycles, or that we don't think they should be allowed to use the carpool lane. We only object to aggressive dangerous behavior by motorcycle riders.

I get it, there are good motorcyclists & bad ones. There are those who blast past and make it look as though the other drivers on the road are standing still - many of them are bullet bikes. But there are also cars that do this. My experience has been that most bikers are normal people who happen to be riding bikes. They wave when you let them cut in front of you, they use turn or hand signals and seem to be basically good, normal people.

This news story isn't about your normal person. It's about a bunch of assholes who bullied other drivers in order to perform their "stunts," one of which was to slow down in front of the SUV so that the others could catch up and fuck with him. They beat the shit outta him - an undercover off duty police officer was one of the guys who terrorized the SUV driver. This incident was about some really mean people who chose to buy into the mob mentality and physically assaulted a man who was out for a drive with his family.

donjumpsuit says

Claim you are frightened all you want. Claim there was damage done to your vehicle prior to the video we all saw. That's fine. File a police report, and file and comprehensive insurance claim! Asian drivers ...... I tell ya ....

If you were driving with your family in the car and a group of people on bikes was coming after you, I doubt you'd be sitting there allowing them to terrorize you. You could always file that thar police report from your hospital bed, but since many of the bikes had stolen plates (or fake ones, according to some report I read somewhere...) you would be on the hook to pay for the damage that they caused to you as well. They broke a window next to a baby in a car seat.

Imagine for one moment - if you're able - that you are out for a drive with your young family and a bunch of motorcyclists surround your car in a menacing manner, yelling at you. Of course you would try to get the fuck out of there any way you could. Even if you are Asian. (?!)

donjumpsuit says

Nobody is going to shoot you dead. It's broad day light, and a tremendous amount of witnesses.

You have a car that can probably call the police itself, and I would bet in this day and age, the 2 year old probably had a cell phone.

Fearing for your life only would get worse, the more you damage other peoples motorcycles or people, so why would you make it worse. Where do you think you are escaping too that a motorcycle, check that, 100's of motorcycles can't catch you?

Unbelievable this guy hasn't been charged yet.

Really? No one would shoot you with all the witnesses?

A police officer was one of the riders, he finally came forward and admitted his part (although there seems to have been an attempt to twist his part in it as if he were undercover at the time - which he was not). Multiple other riders were there, and the cops don't know who they are . That's because they were driving very fast get away bikes and had successfully removed much of the identifying info on the bikes. They also hid their appearances under helmets and pretty leathers.

The guy was boxed in, he felt his only option was to flee. If he had stood there it's probable he would have been assaulted. He fled (and hit a guy on a bike who purposely blocked his way so that the others could terrorize him) and was caught. At least he did something.

You can say a lot of things about the way that bikers are painted in the media, on tv and in the movies. About the much undeserved reputation they've got. But these assholes deserve jail time and the driver deserves every penny of their assets for what they did to him.

And that baby's memory will always include daddy getting the shit beat out of him by multiple guys on bikes while others on bikes and bystanders did nothing to stop it.

leo707 says

The worst intentional thing I have had car drivers do to me is try and squeeze the space to prevent me from lane-splitting. It is pretty uncommon, but it is stupid, dangerous and the type of thing that bikers hit or kick off a rear-view mirror for.

Are you sure? Don't assume something was intentional when you don't know that for a fact. I drive a small car and I sometimes need to drive a bit towards one side of the lane or the other in order to see around the mammoth SUVs that are on the road. I once had a biker make a rude gesture at me because he ASSUMED I was deliberately blocking him, when in fact that wasn't the case at all. I was already towards the right side of the lane because I was trying to see ahead of the SUV that was blocking my view. I didn't move over to block anyone, and I was legally well within my lane. The biker came up later, and ASSUMED I was being hostile, even though my car was already in that position long before he ever got there. Obviously he was riding with a huge chip on his shoulder and assuming everyone on the road was out to get him. I even moved over to the left when I saw him coming, and he STILL was upset. Go figure....

Another thing I see all the time in California is bikers riding between the carpool lane and the next lane over, and giving a "peace" sign to each car that moves over for them, while giving the finger to each car that continues driving in a straight line, as if they believe the cars are required to move over for them. It's this kind of self-entitled attitude that I object to, and that I see far too often.

I hear bikers say cars "can't see them" all the time, yet I witness riding behavior all the time that puts them in that precise situation. Every day I see bikers position themselves directly behind and to the right of cars. Do you realize this is exactly where the car's blind spot is? I guess someone told them that this is safe, but it most certainly is not. It would make much more sense to be in the middle of the lane, yet bikers seem to always ride at the edge of the lane. I don't know why. It's not logical. Even in a car, I never insist on the right-of-way when I'm in someone's blind spot, because I have no way of knowing if they are even aware of me. If I were on a motorcycle, this would be doubly important.

donjumpsuit says

You can beleive it or not, but I have had someone both open a door on me
(whether it was a joke or not, who knows) and also several more times I have had
cars purposefully drive closer to the car next to them, crossing the white line,
to impede my progress

In traffic that can happen in blind spots. Drivers may be driving along and suddenly want to get into the next lane. I doubt in CA traffic, any car is trying to race a bike. You pass a thousand cars and one might just not have turned and looked and started to move into the next lane. In those traffic conditions, many attend meetings , eat, drink coffee while driving and not paying much attention.

On the other hand I have had bikers split lanes when traffic is going at 65-70 mph in the 101 in Los Angeles. Not many-but a few. In stop and go traffic, when we stop and then for a stretch go up , I see bikers all the times splitting lanes and it really makes me a little concerned. Especially in LA when the freeways split off into different freeways in both left and right. Everybody is trying to get into the correct lane to their freeway. On top of that you still have bikers splitting lanes and it is chaos.

Of course where I moved , very few bikers. They would probably freeze to death on their bikes in winter!!

elliemae says

I get it, there are good motorcyclists & bad ones.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/O1HaCGZYrMI

Homeboy says

Are you sure? Don't assume something was intentional when you don't know that for a fact.

You are correct in that one should not assume, but yeah when I am sure that a driver is trying to squeeze me out I am not operating on assumptions.

As mentioned by donjumpsuit looking into a car and watching for a drivers intentions is very important (and most certainly not an over exaggeration), especially when lane-splitting. For me watching for turn signals is tertiary to seeing where a drivers attention is at, and watching how cars are lining up with openings in the opposite lane that they can dart into.

When I see a driver watching me in their side view mirror, then they drift right on top of the the dashed lane divider (or within a foot of the other car) then yeah I have a pretty good idea of their intentions.

But sure, often people are just not paying much attention and will drift, closing the gap for me to travel through. Generally American drivers are pretty averse to driving too close to other cars and I don't need much space. It is pretty rare that in these situations I don't have room to get through. Sometimes my handlebars may need to pass over or under one of the cars side-view mirror, and on one occasion while I was squeezing between an SUV and sedan my hands passed under the SUV mirror as my other hand passed over the sedan mirror.

donjumpsuit says

It is also important to position oneself in traffic on a motorcycle. You want to have escape routes, so that if traffic stops unexpectedly or someone tries to change lanes and slams on the brakes, you have a safety zone to escape. This has to be maintained at all times.

So if that zone isn't established, sometimes I have to split lanes at 70mph, to regain that safety zone.

Yeah, absolutely. Having to lane-split at high-speed for safety reasons has been pretty rare for me though.

Having an escape route and staying out of a pack is good defensive driving in a car, but an order of magnitude more important on a bike.

Homeboy says

Another thing I see all the time in California is bikers riding between the carpool lane and the next lane over, and giving a "peace" sign to each car that moves over for them, while giving the finger to each car that continues driving in a straight line, as if they believe the cars are required to move over for them. It's this kind of self-entitled attitude that I object to, and that I see far too often.

This could probably be added to don's list of identifying an idiot motorcyclist. As a car driver I don't see this very often.

When riding a motorcycle, every time your hands leave your handlebars you reduce your reaction time. When lane-splitting being able to make that rapid swerve as a car darts in front of the bike has saved me from many collisions. If I was splitting my attention by spending my time flipping off drivers and having to return my hand to the handlebars to maneuver I don't know that my reactions would have been fast enough.

Yeah, I will wave or "peace sign" the occasional courteous driver.

Homeboy says

I hear bikers say cars "can't see them" all the time, yet I witness riding behavior all the time that puts them in that precise situation. Every day I see bikers position themselves directly behind and to the right of cars. Do you realize this is exactly where the car's blind spot is? I guess someone told them that this is safe, but it most certainly is not. It would make much more sense to be in the middle of the lane, yet bikers seem to always ride at the edge of the lane. I don't know why. It's not logical.

Safe lane positioning depends on the situation, but the center of the lane is often not where you want to be. A motorcycle driving in the middle of the lane means more road debris, oil, other fluids, or hidden road hazards -- think of how a car driver is supposed to drive in another cars tracks in the rain or snow, some similar reasons. Hitting even a small oil spill, especially on a turn, can mean putting your bike down.

Almost always the safest lane position is riding in the left side of the lane directly behind/in front of a car driver. People instinctively look at other people faces and putting yourself in the place where a driver expects to see another drivers face makes you more visible, and yes you are out of the major blind spots.

Depending on traffic conditions/hazards you may want to position yourself to the right side of the lane, but almost never right in the middle for the above mentioned reasons.

Almost assuredly some of the bikers you observe driving in the right-hand part of the lane have no good reason for being there, but many have probably gone through a risk-assessment and are driving there intentionally.

A flamethrower at the exhaust pipes would be even more badass.

DJS said: #2. Drivers who have never experienced what it is like to drive a motorcycle, under appreciate the moment to moment risk to the motorcyclist.
I appreciate everyone's contribution to the thread, especially from the motorcyclists. Why I kept reviving and commenting on blurtman's threads is I wanted to get to the emotional core of the issue. Both motorcyclists (and bicyclists) are extremely vulnerable when they ride. Riding as a group, they have much more power than when alone; the more angry individuals can use that power to intimidate those whom they normally feel threatened by (that is, car drivers). In the most extreme situations, you get a mob mentality that takes over, and people do things under an (imagined) cloud of anonymity (which is an no longer true these days, as cameras are everywhere). You can see this at Critical Mass rallies or stunt bike rides. Self policing is the most effective policy, but not easily done. Setting clear expectations would seem to be a start.
PS - Anyone have some general rules of thumb to determine if you are in the middle of a:
1. Sportbike rally
or
2. OMG (outlaw motorcycle gang)

donjumpsuit says

Make of it what you will, I am not driving over another human being in ANY circumstance unless it's a Zombie Apocalypse. Certainly not a lovely Fall Sunday Afternoon in broad daylight, regardless of the situation.

I imagine we all would like to think we'd never do that, but what you would actually do when confronted with imminent danger and needing to protect your family is another thing entirely. Easy for you to judge people's actions when you weren't there being attacked like they were.

donjumpsuit says

#2. Drivers who have never experienced what it is like to drive a motorcycle, under appreciate the moment to moment risk to the motorcyclist. If they did, they would most likely be more tolerant, even dismissive of the more extreme examples of bad behavior.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. We all know that motorcycles are dangerous; that's why we choose not to ride them. If you want to assume that risk, that is on you. I should not be required to be "dismissive" of bad behavior because YOU chose to ride a motorcycle.

donjumpsuit says

Then, inevitably this happens every time. The car in front of me get's nervous for some reason (the reasons everyone discussed above) and starts to pull to the left onto the shoulder, because for some reason he is expecting me, on the motorcycle to split lanes at 72 mph. Yes, because it's a behavior he has seen before.

You can blame your fellow bikers for that. I already recounted the story of riders who act as though drivers are doing them a disservice if they don't pull over onto the shoulder to let them pass. Other bikers are mad if we DON'T pull over, and you are mad if we DO pull over. Kinda makes me think you guys are just always mad about something.

Have you ever considered that leaving only 2 car lengths following distance at 70 mph is dangerous? 7 lengths is recommended. What you are doing is tailgating. No wonder drivers get nervous around you.

donjumpsuit says

It is also important to position oneself in traffic on a motorcycle. You want to have escape routes, so that if traffic stops unexpectedly or someone tries to change lanes and slams on the brakes, you have a safety zone to escape. This has to be maintained at all times.

I'm detecting a victim mentality on your part, and perhaps this is what leads bikers to engage in aggressive behavior. I often sense that bikers have gone into "Rambo" mode, where they feel it's "us against them", and are chomping at the bit to get into some sort of altercation with a driver. Perhaps if bikers could lose the martyr mentality, we would have less of this kind of behavior. It would be tough, though, because you guys reinforce these beliefs in each other through clubs, internet forums, etc.

donjumpsuit says

So if that zone isn't established, sometimes I have to split lanes at 70mph, to regain that safety zone.

I bet it is very rarely necessary to split lanes at 70mph for "safety". In most cases, slowing down can accomplish the same thing without adding additional danger. I think you just don't WANT to slow down. When bikers start saying they HAVE to split lanes at 70mph is when my bullshit meter starts to peg.

leo707 says

Almost assuredly some of the bikers you observe driving in the right-hand part of the lane have no good reason for being there, but many have probably gone through a risk-assessment and are driving there intentionally.

I think their risk assessment is flawed. I also question your belief that being where a "driver's face" would be makes any difference at all. Do you have any sort of objective evidence to indicate this is the case? If it were me, I would make staying out of blind spots my top priority, over any questionable psychological theories about drivers. I don't make this comment lightly, as it is a common experience for drivers to suddenly see motorcycles appear out of blind spots. Now, I am very diligent about checking my blind spots before changing lanes, but I can't say that everyone else is as good at it as I am.

leo707 says

This could probably be added to don's list of identifying an idiot motorcyclist. As a car driver I don't see this very often.

Hmmm...where do you live? I see it a lot in Southern CA.

donjumpsuit says

Lastly Homeboy,

I can tell what the driver is doing, if it's intentional or not.

I can see into the car, because I am high above it.

I can see in the rear view mirror.

I can see in the side view mirror.

I can tell if that person is having a bad day.

Actually my survival depends on knowing what every driver is doing, and what thier distraction or frustration level is.

leo707 says

You are correct in that one should not assume, but yeah when I am sure that a driver is trying to squeeze me out I am not operating on assumptions.

As mentioned by donjumpsuit looking into a car and watching for a drivers intentions is very important (and most certainly not an over exaggeration), especially when lane-splitting. For me watching for turn signals is tertiary to seeing where a drivers attention is at, and watching how cars are lining up with openings in the opposite lane that they can dart into.

I'm noticing a lot of preconceptions you already seem to have before you even go out on the road. Believing that you know the mind of every driver can be dangerous, as in the example I posted of the biker who thought I was trying to block him when that was not my intention at all. I think there's a very real danger that this victim or survivor mentality can lead to hostility and aggression on the road, and I've seen it a lot. Due to the inherent danger of riding a motorcycle in traffic, it takes a strong-willed individual to avoid succumbing to this mentality, and I applaud those who are able to do so.