patrick.net

http://www.examiner.com/article/oakland-crime-down-gentrification-up-mayor-quan-looks-good

I do think Oakland has all the makings of a great city. However the problem remains on how to alleviate Oakland's crime, but maintain it's cultural flare.

CL says

Which of the following cities are best to live/work in?

the "time" came and went... some people thing the grand golden
years will come back without having to put in the effort...

there was a reason why there was a boom decades ago...

but it escapes many today!

Too many ignorant people out there when it comes to Oakland. As someone that has spent about 10yrs there, I can confirm that Oakland has a spectrum of course... Rockridge, Oakland Hills, Montclair, Lake Merritt, Piedmont, all great places to live/work/play.

East Oakland? Ya stay out. This is the small part of Oakland that you see on the news.

Oh, and of the cities on that list, Walnut Creek would be my choice.

It's clean, safe, has a fun downtown, and probably has the smallest concentration of Bay Area "riff-raff" of any city on that list... How's that for PC?

Depends on what you like. San Francisco is the main attraction. Does that appeal to you? Silicon Valley is the center of employment. Do you want to be close to work? Oakland is an incredible city with the same kinds of food, culture and living you expect from big cities. I find the suburbs difficult to distinguish from one another but generally like the cultural and technological histories of the peninsula cities more than the sprawl towns like Walnut Creek. Of course, places like Walnut Creek are priced so buying a house costs less since there's not much else there besides houses and schools.

San Rafael.

But SF has better restaurants.

We love San Rafael. 30 minutes by clean bus with Wifi to downtown S.F. where we work. Sunny, great stores, hiking trails, places to bike and a nice downtown with only few bums. You can drive a car around here and there is parking. Plus within a short drive great recreation trails around the watershed on the side of Mt. Tam.

There is plenty of diversity in Marin. Irish, Italians, Germans, English, all the people that look like our family and that we can share a common culture and values with. F* multiculturalism.

If you live in Larkspur you can also take the ferry to SF.

Multiculturalism is not bad, but SF has too many crazies.

Does Marin have good Japanese restaurants other than Sushi Ran?

Craig78 says

30 minutes by clean bus with Wifi to downtown S.F. where we work.

Calling shenanigans on this. If I remember correctly, even the 4:30AM bus from the San Rafael transit center is scheduled for more than 30 mins to the Financial District, and that's when no one is on the road. Anything at a less ungodly hour is between 40-60 mins I'd guess, without looking at a schedule. To Civic Center, for the buses that go there, is probably 45-60 mins, typically. Add 5-10 mins if you are going beyond Financial District/Civic Center towards the end of the line. And you'd also have to walk/bike/ride to the transit center.

If you had said the Larkspur Ferry, I'm pretty sure the first few in the morning are 30 mins, but later in the morning it becomes 35 mins. Of course, you also need to add your commute to the actual ferry terminal to that.

The other thing I'd cite, although this could just be sample size, is that Marin is so frickin' small-town that many of the teenagers/young adults are stoner burnouts with little motivation. It's a boring place with nothing to do -- but that's what happens when you live in undeveloped small towns of 5-10K up in the hills. San Rafael is obviously bigger than the typical Marin town, but it's still pretty small-town.

Peter P says

Does Marin have good Japanese restaurants other than Sushi Ran?

Marin barely has any good restaurants (or very many restaurants period with its tiny spread-out population), although I've heard good things about Sir & Star, and I had a good experience at Fish (but paid for it). Marin is very small town -- locals may like some of the restaurants because they're what's around, but a lot of them are mediocre or worse to people who've been to other good restaurants in the rest of the Bay Area or wine country.

Peter P says

San Rafael.

But SF has better restaurants.

SF has more "better restaurants" than San Rafael has restaurants.

corntrollio says

Calling shenanigans on this.

My very close friend who lived there for years and bought a house there used to lie like this too. He used to tell me 45 minutes. But every time I drove there on a weekend with no traffic it was nearly 45 minutes. So I always wondered what part of the trip he helicoptered. If I was spending that much of my life driving to work, I'd lie too. It's a matter of survival. Facing the facts would be too difficult.

I grew up going to church in Oakland and lived in Berkeley for a decade. I had two black boyfriends in college (yes. They refused to call themselves African American). Guess the amazing and culturally diverse places I was exposed to during those two relationships? Boyfriend #1: Pizzeria Uno in SF and Oakland. Boyfriend # 2: Applebees, TGIF, Marie Calendars. He seemed to know where all of these chains were in every town in the bay area. These are places my culturally divers white self would have never gone to.

My advice is to stop thinking you want cultural diversity and admit you don't know what that actually means. CL says

I've lived in Oakland for most of my life in the Bay Area-- It's got a lot of white folks there. But it has culture and flavor, whereas most of the lily white areas in this country are cultural deserts, unless you like TGIF.

rufita11 says

He seemed to know where all of these chains were in every town in the bay area. These are places my culturally divers white self would have never gone to.

My advice is to stop thinking you want cultural diversity and admit you don't know what that actually means

So CL doesn't know what cultural diversity means because your boring unimaginative boyfriends took you to shitty chains? I don't know quite how that follows, but maybe you can explain.

Motherfucker could have at least taken you to Zachary's if he wanted deepdish.

rufita11 says

They refused to call themselves African American

My black friends from Caribbean islands always though the term "African American" was bizarre. They didn't consider themselves African, and they didn't consider themselves American, and yet people tried to call them that. I've had white friends born in Africa who later became American citizens -- they have a better claim to the term than the typical use.

Controllio. All I'm saying is cultural diversity does not = having brown people around and ethnic restaurants. He's the one who said TGIF and Applebees are indicators of a lack of cultural diversity. When most of the patrons in there are "diverse".

corntrollio says

So CL doesn't know what cultural diversity means because your boring unimaginative boyfriends took you to shitty chains? I don't know quite how that follows, but maybe you can explain.

Exactly. Look, I've been all over this country and the lily white cities always have Applebee's or TGIF, or another chain store with the same flavors. Chipotle this, Jack Daniel that.

I grew up on the South Side of Chicago. One of my earliest clients was an Afro-sheen company. Not too many Applebee's, but there were McDonald's and all kinds of heart disease inducing eateries to choose from.

On the far North side, I had the Pakistani neighborhood, the Jewish, the Indian, the Mexican and a black block or two. That's diversity, and it was great. It's great like that in much of the Bay Area too, but with a slightly different ethnic mix.

Remarkably, in none of the ethnically diverse neighborhoods was there a TGIF.

rufita11 says

My advice is to stop thinking you want cultural diversity and admit you don't know what that actually means

If you want to hang your hat on "Applebee's=culturally diverse", or "Black guys dig TGIs", go ahead. I think most people know that's ludicrous.

rufita11 says

All I'm saying is cultural diversity does not = having brown people around and ethnic restaurants.

No, of course not. It means all the countries of Northern Europe and the full panoply of Protestantism!!

Enlighten me. What does cultural diversity mean to you, if not enjoying the richness of ethnicities from throughout the world, and appreciating their food, culture, religion, art and language?

rufita11 says

All I'm saying is cultural diversity does not = having brown people around and ethnic restaurants.

To be fair, the actual quote was:

CL says

But it has culture and flavor, whereas most of the lily white areas in this country are cultural deserts, unless you like TGIF.

To CL's defense, CL didn't say cultural diversity, CL was talking about culture period, whoever's culture it is. You interpreted that as cultural diversity, which has swayed the discussion away from the original quote.

rufita11 says

He's the one who said TGIF and Applebees are indicators of a lack of cultural diversity. When most of the patrons in there are "diverse".

And again, I'd say based on the original quote, CL said that TGIF shows a lack of *culture* regardless of whether or not diversity is there. He's suggesting that your unimaginative boyfriends were uncultured, not that they weren't "diverse."

As an example, large portions of Seattle and Portland are white as hell, but they still have culture. The only things whiter than those areas are probably Klan rallies and people on ski slopes.

corntrollio says

To CL's defense, CL didn't say cultural diversity, CL was talking about culture period, whoever's culture it is.

All true. I've lived in Europe too, and I enjoy that culture. I lived in England for a year. Some of the cities and countries are pretty monolithic, but I can dig that.

I have a few different BAs in World Religion, and in Foreign Language, Arts and Literature. I like to meet and enjoy what each has to offer.

Although it's still true that lots of white America is a cultural dessert, replete with the chains, big box stores and so on. I'd prefer not to return to that, having spent a lot of my life in Indiana as well.

CL says

Enlighten me. What does cultural diversity mean to you, if not enjoying the richness of ethnicities from throughout the world, and appreciating their food, culture, religion, art and language?

To me, it means actually living within the lives of people of diverse cultures, eating in their homes and they in yours. Going to their weddings and taking part in the hidden lives that they don't sell in their restaurants. I'm used to being the only white person in the room, so it's not easy living in San Ramon where my Native American husband wants to live--He wants to be the only brown person in the room.

Cultural diversity means having next door neighbors giving exploding vest terrorist lessons in their living room, but agreeing not to hurt you because you are their neighbor.

CL says

Enlighten me. What does cultural diversity mean to you, if not enjoying the
richness of ethnicities from throughout the world, and appreciating their food,
culture, religion, art and language?

It means when you go to any school, restaurant, public event and there are people from nations all over, you don't feel a damn thing and don't notice it. It is so natural that you don't even think about it nor care.

rufita11 says

To me, it means actually living within the lives of people of diverse cultures, eating in their homes and they in yours. Going to their weddings and taking part in the hidden lives that they don't sell in their restaurants

Totally true. Nothing like submersion. Obviously, we do what we can in America, and I don't begrudge the museum visitor who catches a Chinese Exhibit if they can't foot a flight there.

Had some rural girls in to visit recently and we took them to a nice Ethiopian restaurant. It might be the closest they ever get to Africa, but that exposure is priceless although still not as great as submersion.

That's what's great about city living in general, and Oakland in particular. All that exposure to the gay or ethnic minority cultures opens a lot of eyes. Harder to hate people when you work, talk, or drink with them on a daily basis. Of course, the more opportunities to interact with folks different than you, the greater the odds of those encounters occurring.

I've other relatives in rural and homogenous white America. Their big night out is a Red Lobster, and it's a long drive to get there. Of course, their home food is better, and simpler. But it's a lot of pot roast, friend chicken, and full of white bread...pun intended!!

SFace says

It means when you go to any school, restaurant, public event and there are people from nations all over, you don't feel a damn thing and don't notice it. It is so natural that you don't even think about it nor care.

Could be. I think it depends on the old diversity v. "melting pot" argument. Sometimes a melting pot gives you Taco Bell, instead of real Mexican food.

Should we be indifferent to different cultures, or celebrate them? Or should they work hard to assimilate as soon as possible?