patrick.net

clambo says

The grass roots movement was a rejection of the growth of government, more government debt, more govt. spending, more taxes to pay for the previous, Obamacare which is an intrusion into your personal business, and other things depending on the group.

Of course that is the "official" slogan the movement uses. Remember that there are two parts of this astroturf movement: the "front end" of the organization with a main goal of distracting potential followers to go along with the slogan as well as to use the other diatribes tossed in aimed at placing all of the blame not only on government, but liberals. That's the front end.

The back end consists of the business component: various institutions, lobby affiliates, industrial concerns, billionaires with ties to industries affected by future regulations, and other businesses whom hide behind said movement, tell people one thing and then in the back room create ways in which to manipulate the political system for their causes.

The tea party is nothing more than a fake astroturf organization with profits in mind at the expense of people who eagerly lap up the made-up-crap they're told so they can be distracted from what's really going on, which is to say they eagerly then vote against or for proposals that in turn goes against their self interests and enriches the outside interest groups who used them effectively for that purpose.

clambo says

Many tea party supported guys are already congressmen and senators.

Many more are not who spoiled the normal candidate's chances. Baggers are having difficulty coalescing around ideas, now that blind partisan rage doesn't work any longer.

They might have had normal democratic intentions, but turned into a fucking joke. I don't agree with the original baggers, but I welcome the debate and embrace their right to do so.

Whereas Occupy suffered from a lack of centrality, the Baggers were co-opted easily.

A Buddhist, a Hindu and a Minuteman walk into a bar voting booth...
It's open primary season in California. Will you vote for a reasonable opposition candidate just to make November a little more interesting (not that anyone stands a chance against Brown). As it is now, the Tea Party candidate is in second place.

clambo says

The word TEA=Taxed Enough Already.

A common misconception.

It's actually The Executive's African, that being their major objection to the current leadership in DC.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

clambo says

The word TEA=Taxed Enough Already.

A common misconception.

It's actually The Executive's African, that being their major objection to the current leadership in DC.

Thought it was "Terribly Educated Assholes"?

edvard2 says

Looks like the tea party is done

they been saying that since 2010....

but really what else would a Liberal Rag paper say otherwise....

EBGuy says

As it is now, the Tea Party candidate is in second place.

"Donnelly also has three times as much support among Latino voters as Kashkari, despite Donnelly's role in founding the California Minutemen, a self-styled border patrol dedicated to fighting illegal immigration."

and some of you from Emeryville were crying that Latinos and other minorities were never voting for Republicans....

CL says

Whereas Occupy suffered from a lack of centrality, the Baggers were co-opted easily.

How is the smell from a Occupy movement going.. are you loving it?

thomaswong.1986 says

and some of you from Emeryville were crying that Latinos and other minorities were never voting for Republicans....

Huh? Tripling minority support gets you a total of three. The issue isn't who can get the most of a small slice, it's how they stack up against a Dem.thomaswong.1986 says

How is the smell from a Occupy movement going.. are you loving it?

I am. More people than ever understand wealth and income inequality and its deleterious effects. More than ever refer to the "1%".

Baggers have popularized ball-licking and transvaginal ultrasounds.

But Barry Soetoro is not African. His sperm donor was African, his mother a loony 17 year old chick, so Barry is mulatto.

Michelle wants to tell people what to eat, although her ass is huge and she eats whatever she chooses. Obama smokes but he wants to control your access to doctors.

The various "Tea parties" held here and there were a response to the absurd growth of govt. and everyone knows taxes must rise to pay for it.

Taxes and regulations and govt. intrusion HAVE gone up.

My tea party in-laws visited us last night and spent the night.

thomaswong.1986 says

they been saying that since 2010....

but really what else would a Liberal Rag paper say otherwise....

This isn't about "liberal rags" or whatever. The fact of the matter is that the whole purpose the tea party was engineered by billionaires and commercial interests failed big time. It failed to stop Obamacare. It has now failed to make a repeat of 2010 by having all of their candidates for this fall soundly defeated by establishment Republicans.

The only thing the tea party succeeded at was to get a few Americans to gullibly believe that it is a "real" movement when in fact they're simply being used as political pawns.clambo says

The various "Tea parties" held here and there were a response to the absurd growth of govt. and everyone knows taxes must rise to pay for it.

I am so damned tired of reading shit like that. It means absolutely nothing. Its simply a big cliche' that the GOP has run into the ground and yet they can't even back it up because they too spend money like its water and so too do the fake tea party politicians.

Lastly, there needs to be a real emphasis on educating Americans about finance. There seems to be this totally unrealistic expectation Amongst some on the right who think that somehow we can have this gigantic military, 8-lane wide freeways, sparking-clean schools with teachers who will get their kids straight-A's and yet somehow we can do it all with zero taxes and that even when the cost of living and all the items attached to that also go up in price that we can never-ever raise taxes in conjunction with those costs. I'm not even talking about special programs either. I'm talking about the basics of running a country because like it or not it costs money to do so and with that comes.... drum roll... taxes. I fail to see how starving the government out of funds to do its job helps anyone. Personally I like going to national parks, driving on roads not full of pot holes, or maybe even getting social security someday. I'm also willing to pay taxes in order to have those things.

So now that sarah palin is six year dated news, and the tea party is dead and gone, what does that leave democrats to talk about?

errc says

So now that sarah palin is six year dated news, and the tea party is dead and
gone, what does that leave democrats to talk about?

They still have plenty of issues. All they need to do is screech about:

- Raaacism
- War on women!
- H8ing on science and gheys!

You know, Democrats will focus on all these massively important issues that face America and humanity.

Let us not forget about confusing a symptom (wealth inequality) as a problem, and therefore misdiagnosing a cure (higher income taxes) as a solution.

Big corps and big money are squashing the little guy! Labor is so undervalued!
We need to raise income taxes (on labor)

Is it any surprise that only this confused bunch of miscreants could have done the bidding of the evil corporations, and confused fixing our broken health care system, with pushing heritage foundationcare on us, that does little more than raise taxes, empower evil corporations, and make the citizenry less healthy than they were before.

What a bunch of simple simon motherfuckers

socal2 says

wog says

Yes because as we all know, Obamacare is about government hospitals.

But aren't all the liberals who are faced with the total failure of Obamacare now saying that just wanted a "single payer" system all along?

Even if that were true, single payer isn't about government hospitals either. It's about medicare for all. We would pay tax to a single health insurance company, run by the government and not for profit.

Medicare already exists for the part of life when health care gets expensive for most people, so making the transition to this would be relatively easy and not all that costly.

The only problem was the power of the insurance industry lobby.

marcus says

Even if that were true, single payer isn't about government hospitals either.
It's about medicare for all. We would pa a tax to a single health insurance
company, run by the government and not for profit.

Doesn't the UK have single payer?

Doesn't the UK government run NHS?

socal2 says

But aren't all the liberals who are faced with the total failure of Obamacare now saying that just wanted a "single payer" system all along?

Yeah... except it hasn't failed.

marcus says

The only problem was the power of the insurance industry lobby.

I wish it was that simple.

Insurance profits are about $.05 cents on the dollar. Insurance profits are large in volume, but the margins are some of the lowest of US industries.

You really believe that the bloated, corrupt, and innefficient unionzed US government bureaucracy could run ANYTHING for $.05 cents on the dollar? If so, which government agency or department?

Look at the corruption in the VA scandal where the government bureaucracy was manipulating wait lists so their reports could look good and still receieve bonuses while people died waiting.

edvard2 says

Yeah... except it hasn't failed.

Based on what metric?

Based on 2 of their biggest promises, it sure as shit has failed:

- Failed to reduce average premiums by $2,500
- If you like your doctor/plan you can keep your doctor/plan?

And since all of the cost pain was unilaterally delayed by Obama to get past the elections (employer mandate etc.) the financial pain and loss of choices is only going to get worse and worse each year.

It is just basic logic, you simply can't massively increase the safety net and require more expansive coverage for everyone without it costing alot more money.

socal2 says

Doesn't the UK have single payer?

Doesn't the UK government run NHS?

You really don't know what single payer means, do you.

socal2 says

You really believe that the bloated, corrupt, and innefficient unionzed US government bureaucracy could run ANYTHING for $.05 cents on the dollar? If so, which government agency or department?

I don't know how efficient the employees at medicare are, but the leverage of being the only one paying doctors (except for supplemental policies), and setting the rates for what they will pay for each service far far FAR outweighs the exaggerated inefficiency your dogma says exists for all government workers.

Medicare already exists and pays for a huge part of our healthcare.

marcus says

You really don't know what single payer means, do you.

Think you need to google UK's NHS and get back with me.

socal2 says

Based on what metric?

Based on 2 of their biggest promises, it sure as shit has failed:

- Failed to reduce average premiums by $2,500

- If you like your doctor/plan you can keep your doctor/plan?

Based on the fact that now versus then you can now get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition. Based on the millions of Americans who couldn't afford insurance but now can. Based on the plan having to date saved consumers over 3 billion dollars.

But anyway, like I said- the tea party and the GOP's primary goal was to stop Obamacare and protect their corporate backers. They lost. Read that again: LOST. Its over. So no matter how many sill right-wing cliche's are mentioned it won't do a damned thing. They lost. too bad, so sad...

errc aked: what does that leave democrats to talk about?
Well, in the CA open primaries (especially the Bay Area), you have "business" Dems running against "labor" Dems. The elephant in the room is public employee pensions. The CA assembly started to address the issue by throwing the millenials under the bus with a two tier system a couple of years back, but more reform is needed on the "unvested" (not year earned) portions of existing public employees pensions.

Sorry ebguy, I should have been more specific. On the national stage,,,,

EBGuy says

errc aked: what does that leave democrats to talk about?

Leaves em' to crack jokes about the "tea potty" and Republicans in general.

@ errc, As goes California, so goes the country. I thought the GOP might be able to reinvent itself in CA, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Not sure if its good for the state, but the interesting conversations appear to be happening within the Dem party itself.

socal2 says

marcus says

You really don't know what single payer means, do you.

Think you need to google UK's NHS and get back with me.

You're right about one thing, and that is that the one of us that doesn't understand this could have learned by spending a few minutes (or longer in your case), using the internet.

http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/health_care_systems_four_basic_models.php

You can read, can't you ?

edvard2 says

EBGuy says

errc aked: what does that leave democrats to talk about?

Leaves em' to crack jokes about the "tea potty" and Republicans in general.

And then you wonder why political non participants like myself have no interest in aligning ourselves with the party of worthless smug fucks. Lol

@edvard2, Are you in the 17th Congressional District? Honda, Khanna, Singh, or none of the above? Definitely one of the more interesting primaries...

marcus says

You're right about one thing, and that is that the one of us that doesn't
understand this could have learned by spending a few minutes (or longer in your
case), using the internet.

http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/health_care_systems_four_basic_models.php

You can read, can't you ?

From your link:

The Beveridge Model

"Named after William Beveridge, the daring social reformer who designed Britain’s National Health Service. In this system, health care is provided and financed by the government through tax payments, just like the police force or the public library.

Many, but not all, hospitals and clinics are OWNDED BY THE GOVERNMENT; some doctors are government employees, but there are also private doctors who collect their fees from the government."

Correct. That is what they have in the UK, which is not to be confused with the national health insurance model.

Single payer would be medicare for all. Medicare doesn't own a single hospital. They may employ some doctors (to work on policy etc) but not to treat patients.

See the national health insurance model. That's what single payer refers to.

http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/health_care_systems_four_basic_models.php

Surveillance state is expanding and government is growing. Remind me again please why is that good that we have big government?

The growth of what you call surveillance state was prompted by 9/11, not anyones love of big government. Our massive defense department likewise was not prompted by anyone's love of big government. In fact supposedly smaller loving govt republicans are its champions.

marcus says

The growth of what you call surveillance state was prompted by 9/11, not anyones love of big government. Our massive defense department likewise was not prompted by anyone's love of big government. In fact supposedly smaller loving govt republicans are its champions.

Why hasn't it stopped than? All it takes is one executive order.

Call it Crazy says

marcus says

Medicare already exists and pays for a huge part of our healthcare.

You really need to go do some research to see how much fraud, waste, abuse, over-billing, incompetence, etc. exists in Medicare...

So what?

Governments, currencies, and societies come and go all the time.

There are plenty of people who had freedom thousands of years ago who are dead now. The Earth is always changing.

Your government, your freedom, my freedom: none of it really matters, because things are always changing and always will.

And the planet will do fine one way or another.

Tea party originally was in boston in response to taxation without representation etc. This movement was about whining about taxes.

clambo says

The word TEA=Taxed Enough Already.

The irony is that most rank and file Tea Party supporters probably don't even pay very much in taxes, and a large number are probably in Mitt Romney's 47% stat. It's the Astro-turfing sponsors who are the ones who actually pay taxes.

I know Tea Party supporters in Section 8 housing and on food stamps, who wish the government would just "get out of the way".