patrick.net

Heraclitusstudent says

Heraclitusstudent says

If trade did not benefit us, Obama would not be promoting it.

Lol!

There is nothing funny about simple facts. Why do you think Obama, and every previous President in recent times has been promoting free trade?

tatupu70 says

OK, how about you give me some examples of comparative advantage that don't involve the weather.

Life saving drugs. Oil, which is our lifeline. Lithium, needed for new generation batteries.
Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.
You guys are so damn short sighted.

Strategist says

Life saving drugs. Oil, which is our lifeline. Lithium, needed for new generation batteries.

Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.

You guys are so damn short sighted.

OK, weather and what's buried beneath the earth.

How are life saving drugs a comparative advantage?

Strategist says

Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.

That's the line that folks use when they try to convince you that free trade is good. But, as a country we are trading wealth for cheaper products. That is NEVER a good trade.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Life saving drugs. Oil, which is our lifeline. Lithium, needed for new generation batteries.


Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.


You guys are so damn short sighted.

OK, weather and what's buried beneath the earth.

How are life saving drugs a comparative advantage?

The life saving drugs we create saves human lives in other parts of the world. Similarly, life saving drugs created or even partially created in Europe is an obvious benefit to us.
Without free trade we would not have those benefits, and neither would the rest of the world.
In the 1970's, Japanese cars with their better quality started displacing unreliable American cars. We were forced to make better cars, much to our benefit. Thanks to free trade.
The list goes on and on and on for ever.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.

That's the line that folks use when they try to convince you that free trade is good. But, as a country we are trading wealth for cheaper products. That is NEVER a good trade.

We are trading pieces of paper with pictures of Ben Franklin for cheaper goods. Getting goods and services at half price doubles our standard of living.

Strategist says

The life saving drugs we create saves human lives in other parts of the world. Similarly, life saving drugs created or even partially created in Europe is an obvious benefit to us.

No kidding. But it's not comparative advantage. Which was the subject of the discussion.

Strategist says

Without free trade we would not have those benefits, and neither would the rest of the world.

That's debatable. It's not an all or nothing thing. And foreign companies can set up subsidiaries in the US. We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

Strategist says

In the 1970's, Japanese cars with their better quality started displacing unreliable American cars. We were forced to make better cars, much to our benefit. Thanks to free trade.

The list goes on and on and on for ever.

And all of those things would continue to happen with tariffs.

Strategist says

We are trading pieces of paper with pictures of Ben Franklin for cheaper goods. Getting goods and services at half price doubles our standard of living.

Nope--we are trading our wealth for cheaper goods. Getting goods and services at half price only doubles our standard of living IF we keep the same wages and employment levels. Which is clearly NOT the case.

The goal should be increasing real wages, not reducing price of goods.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

The life saving drugs we create saves human lives in other parts of the world. Similarly, life saving drugs created or even partially created in Europe is an obvious benefit to us.

No kidding. But it's not comparative advantage. Which was the subject of the discussion.

It most definitely is comparative advantage. Technology and patents are all part of trade.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Without free trade we would not have those benefits, and neither would the rest of the world.

That's debatable. It's not an all or nothing thing. And foreign companies can set up subsidiaries in the US. We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

Setting up foreign subsidiaries is part of trade.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

In the 1970's, Japanese cars with their better quality started displacing unreliable American cars. We were forced to make better cars, much to our benefit. Thanks to free trade.


The list goes on and on and on for ever.

And all of those things would continue to happen with tariffs.

Trading with tariffs is still trade.
You have not made even ONE valid point.

Do you think I'm against trade?? wtf?

Of course we need some trade. What we don't need is lopsided trade agreements that kill US jobs. That's what I've been arguing-not some strawman anti-trade stance that you've imagined for me.

There's one reason: the Chinese would steal the technology, open chinese airplane factories with an eerily similar build to Boeing planes, and crank out airplanes they won't have to pay royalties to a US company for.
Oh wait, that already happened.
The stupid execs at Boeing gave away the farm when they outsourced production to China. The idea was to bypass union labor and make more money for the company. Now, instead of having a lock on the world's most reliable and efficient planes they have cheap foreign competition that didn't have to pay anything for R&D.

Quigley says

There's one reason: the Chinese would steal the technology, open chinese airplane factories with an eerily similar build to Boeing planes, and crank out airplanes they won't have to pay royalties to a US company for.

Oh wait, that already happened.

That is just one reason to have free trade agreements, which would protect our intellectual property. The Russians used to steal our patents all the time, which is how they built eerily similar passenger jets.

Strategist says

That is just one reason to have free trade agreements, which would protect our intellectual property. The Russians used to steal our patents all the time, which is how they built eerily similar passenger jets.

lol--you're kidding, right? How does a free trade agreement keep a country from stealing our technology??

Strategist says

Comparative is not determined by the ease of moving something around, it's determined by what a country can produce better than other countries. Technology, patents, copyrights, software, and movies are all included.

You're kidding, right?
Any company having patents, copyrights, software blah blah, can send its production to China and do it cheaper.
Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills: none of this represents a competitive advantage of a country.
At least not workers in this country.

No Rep/Con/Teas have ever bought any COMMUNIST CHINA product, not even one,because America.
Dumb fucks losing jobs because of outsourcing. No problem,how many are sucking the govt. teat?

Heraclitusstudent says

Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills: none of this represents a competitive advantage of a country.

At least not workers in this country.

Sure it does, you're kidding right?

indigenous says

Heraclitusstudent says

Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills: none of this represents a competitive advantage of a country.


At least not workers in this country.

Sure it does, you're kidding right?

Did you care to elaborate and explain why you think Herc is wrong? Or do you think just stating it is persuasive?

indigenous says

Sure it does

No it doesn't.
If you want to argue this way, have at it.

tatupu70 says

We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

YUP.

And a most of the top ten RX Companies are in SOCIALIST!!! Europe.
http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-reports/top-15-pharma-companies-2014-revenue

#2 Novartis - Switzerland
#3 Roche - Switzerland
#5 Sanofi - Horrible Socialist Basketcase France
#7 GlaxosmithKline - UK
#8 AstraZeneca - UK
#9 Bayer - Socialist Early Retirement, 2nd lowest Work Hours among the OECD, Lazy Germany

thunderlips11 says

tatupu70 says

We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

YUP.

Without trade we wouldn't.

thunderlips11 says

YUP.

And a most of the top ten RX Companies are in SOCIALIST!!! Europe.

http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-reports/top-15-pharma-companies-2014-revenue

#2 Novartis - Switzerland

#3 Roche - Switzerland

#5 Sanofi - Horrible Socialist Basketcase France

#7 GlaxosmithKline - UK

#8 AstraZeneca - UK

#9 Bayer - Socialist Early Retirement, 2nd lowest Work Hours among the OECD, Lazy Germany

n. Korea,
All those countries practice capitalism. Countries that practiced communism - Russia, China, N Korea, Cuba invented next to nothing.

Dear skeptical friends. Check this out.
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/law-comparative-advantage.asp

Do you know what the greatest comparative advantage of the USA is?
It's capitalism. Capitalism created Silicon Valley and the thousands of companies that 24/7 turn out futuristic products. Apple, Tesla, Google. The list never ends. Ever wonder why Russia, N Korea and the Cubans have no silicon valley that produces spectacular products? No one is stopping them from making the next Apple, right? It's Capitalism, Capitalism and Capitalism.
We are the center of the universe and the world revolves around us.

Strategist says

Dear skeptical friends. Check this out.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/law-comparative-advantage.asp

Thanks, but we're all aware of the definition and concept of comparative advantage. I just maintain that it's BS. Nothing in that nice webpage convinces me otherwise.

Strategist says

We are the center of the universe and the world revolves around us.

Sorry, I forgot the capacity of Americans to, when challenged, wrap themselves with their flags and roll on the floor kicking and screaming: "USA! USA!".

tatupu70 says

Thanks, but we're all aware of the definition and concept of comparative advantage. I just maintain that it's BS. Nothing in that nice webpage convinces me otherwise.

"I just maintain that it's BS" That my friend, is where the problem lies.

Heraclitusstudent says

Sorry, I forgot the capacity of Americans to, when challenged, wrap themselves with their flags and roll on the floor kicking and screaming: "USA! USA!".

At one point I seriously considered becoming a Professor. But while tutoring, I noticed the most hated subject was Econ and Stats. Most people claimed "It makes no sense at all" "What use is it" "Its so boring"

Strategist says

No one is stopping them from making the next Apple, right?

...Which dellivers 90% of its jobs to China. You have the company shell but not the jobs. Even most of the money stays overseas to avoid contributing to this society. Too expensive.
Nice comparative advantage for the US...

Strategist says

But while tutoring, I noticed the most hated subject was Econ and Stats. Most people claimed "It makes no sense at all" "What use is it" "Its so boring"...

... and "it's BS!".
At some point you need to have a cursory glance at the reality around you.

Heraclitusstudent says

... and "it's BS!".

At some point you need to have a cursory glance at the reality around you.

You should follow you own advice.

The very reason that the world has progressed from the ability to control fire to the technology we have today is comparative advantage. The very reason that silicon valley is the center of technology today is because of comparative advantage.

Your whining ignores the influence of mercantilism and the affects of our government allowing it and endorsing cronyism at the cost of small business.

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

No one is stopping them from making the next Apple, right?

...Which dellivers 90% of its jobs to China. You have the company shell but not the jobs. Even most of the money stays overseas to avoid contributing to this society. Too expensive.

Nice comparative advantage for the US...

So why is Silicon Valley the center of the Universe for technology, and not China, Russia or Cuba?

Strategist says

So why is Silicon Valley the center of the Universe for technology, and not China, Russia or Cuba?

Because California is to Military Spending like Manitoba is to Wheat. Larry Ellison got his start working for Ampex, a Cali firm which had a juicy contract with the CIA to make databases.

Lockheed-Martin, General Dynamics, General Electric, Boeing, Honeywell, Raytheon etc. etc. all big Defense Contractors. There were even more in the 40s-70s before the Merger Era.

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

So why is Silicon Valley the center of the Universe for technology, and not China, Russia or Cuba?

Because California is to Military Spending like Manitoba is to Wheat. Larry Ellison got his start working for Ampex, a Cali firm which had a juicy contract with the CIA to make databases.

Lockheed-Martin, General Dynamics, General Electric, Boeing, Honeywell, Raytheon etc. etc. all big Defense Contractors. There were even more in the 40s-70s before the Merger Era.

So to be a Silicon Valley you have to be big spender of the military?
I thought Russia was a military Superpower. No Silicon Valley there?
The truth is, you have to have capitalism in order to achieve what Silicon Valley has achieved, isn't it?

thunderlips11 says

Because California is to Military Spending like Manitoba is to Wheat. Larry Ellison got his start working for Ampex, a Cali firm which had a juicy contract with the CIA to make databases.

Bullshit, once again class it is about comparative advantage. It is about when ideas have sex:

http://www.ted.com/talks/matt_ridley_when_ideas_have_sex?language=en

Indulge me this is interesting and if you get your ego out of the way you might learn something.

Apple is worth more than the entire Russian stock market. LOL.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/11232749/Apple-now-bigger-than-Russias-stock-market.html

And this was last year. LOL.

Strategist says

Apple is worth more than the entire Russian stock market.

Apple is a great example of ideas having sex. Jobs got the idea for Macintosh from Xerox, MP3 players from one of his workers, Microsoft came out with a smart phone long before Apple did.

Call it Crazy says

indigenous says

Strategist says

Apple is worth more than the entire Russian stock market.

Apple is a great example of ideas having sex. Jobs got the idea for Macintosh from Xerox, MP3 players from one of his workers, Microsoft came out with a smart phone long before Apple did.

Apple is a classic example of Marketing over Product. If you want to succeed in business, make sure you focus your efforts of 80% on Marketing and 20% on Product and the sheep will line up and buy!

So why can't Russia get any sheep?
Answer: They don't know how to make better mouse traps.

You guys are way off the mark. In order to understand globally what is going on, you need to watch this 45min video
hxxps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzlzlPjseao

This is happening in our lifetime, Politicians completely lie to us and are allowing our country to crumble. Then we re-elect them.
China's factories are running non-stop work farms all so you can buy your next appliance, shoes or widget. The dollar will be replaced

Chinese dont necessary steal technology. As an electrical engineer, I have worked with countless Chinese. They are dedicated hard working and honest. They manufacture simple, moderate, and complex electronics. And they manufacture everything else - A:Z.

The US bears more responsibility on the Outsourcing and the MBA/Arts/Law Entitlementarian attitude that has prevailed. Sadly, I would rather hang out with many of my Asian work associates/friends that the spoiled gringos.

indigenous says

You should follow you own advice.

The very reason that the world has progressed from the ability to control fire to the technology we have today is comparative advantage. The very reason that silicon valley is the center of technology today is because of comparative advantage.

Did you read the discussion?
We are not talking of whether comparative advantage exists in principle.
All I said is: today in trade, "Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills" do not represent a comparative advantage for a country.

To use the example of silicon valley doesn't make sense: as I said 90% of jobs created by Apple are outside the US. Even a large chunk of Apple's profit are outside the US and not coming back. And what is Apple doing? Using commodity technologies that are also used by phone companies in China.
Silicon Valley is just a loin cloth in wild silk that hides how naked the US economy really is. 80% of this country is going down in a big way, and a few rich people in Silicon Valley will not change this.

Call it Crazy says

Apple is a classic example of Marketing over Product.

Yes, the fact that Apple's main competitive advantage is marketing is a clear sign of weakness: their competitive strength is based on their ability to bullshit.

Strategist says

So why can't Russia get any sheep?

I don't know on what planet you live, but sheep are lining up for Xiaomi.

Heraclitusstudent says

Did you read the discussion?

We are not talking of whether comparative advantage exists in principle.

All I said is: today in trade, "Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills" do not represent a comparative advantage for a country.

To use the example of silicon valley doesn't make sense: as I said 90% of jobs created by Apple are outside the US. Even a large chunk of Apple's profit are outside the US and not coming back. And what is Apple doing? Using commodity technologies that are also used by phone companies in China.

Silicon Valley is just a loin cloth in wild silk that hides how naked the US economy really is. 80% of this country is going down in a big way, and a few rich people in Silicon Valley will not change this.

Heraclitusstudent, our competitive advantage lies in "Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills" not manufacturing. The competitive advantage of China lies in manufacturing. That is why Silicon Valley thrives in California, while manufacturing goes to China, and software development goes to India.
Put the 3 together, and we have a smart phone at dumb phone prices.

Heraclitusstudent says

90% of jobs created by Apple are outside the US.

That doesn't indicate there is no comparative advantage in practice.