patrick.net

curious2 says

One reason people stick with XP might be due to better audio outputs. XP can output audio simultaneously via analog and S/PDIF, so for example an HTPC or other setup can monitor locally the audio that it sends out digitally. Subsequent versions lack that ability.

Dan8267 says

I only updated to Windows 8.1 because of hardware support and losing the ability to run modern software. I wanted a higher capacity drive than XP supported, an SSD, and a Direct X 11 video card. XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

CaptainShuddup says

Now what really blows my mind, is how I can record 8 tracks of 24/196 similtaniously on a Android device since Later versions of Jelly Bean.

Good thing I don't understand a word of what you techie aliens are saying. Why don't you guys keep it simple like I do. If it sounds good, it is good. Problem solved.

Strategist says

Good thing I don't understand a word of what you techie aliens are saying.

Good because I mean 24 bit 192kHz high res digital audio.

komputodo says

Dan8267 says

XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

He plays video games. That explains a lot.

Intelligent people play video games. Dumb asses play football. 'Nuff said.

CaptainShuddup says

Dan8267 says

With few exceptions, there's no reason why any app should be allowed to read from or write to any directory other than its install directory and the folder for its data files.

Unless it's an Enterprise service, or any worker process.

And in that case, the operating system should act as a gateway and provide a secure API for such operations. Christ, we're not like we have to do things as stupidly as Unix does. We use real computers today. We should run real software. [Flame war in 3, 2, 1...]

Strategist says

Good thing I don't understand a word of what you techie aliens are saying.

We're doing the computer equivalent of talking about manual vs automatic transmissions. If you're a computer user like anyone under 60 today, you should understand what we are saying. It's not high tech. Do you buy a car without knowing if it's an automatic or manual?

anonymous says

U.S. Navy to Microsoft: We'll give you $9M to keep Windows XP alive.

Chump change to Microsoft. Make it $9B and we'll talk.

I've had yet to hear a single complaint about the actual operating system of Windows 8 anywhere on the Internet. It's not like there isn't plenty to complain about, although all of my complaints apply to prior versions of Windows going back to the original NT in most cases. However, the only complaints I hear about Windows 8 are about the desktop and Metro shells, not the operating system.

And most, if not all, of these complaints can be easily rectified. I hate Metro like everyone else, but I never, ever see it. I never see the app screen, the Metro desktop, the charms bar, or any of that other crap. Hell, I don't even see the annoying images, videos, documents folders in File Explorer because I removed them from the interface. Pretty much every annoyance has an easy fix. People just need to learn how to customize their desktop to their liking. It's impossible to please everyone with a single configuration. One size does not fit all.

zzyzzx says

How much has Windows 8 bombed with PC users? So much that an obsolete operating system that had its technical support cut off nearly a full year ago still has more global users.

Except for new hardware support, there is no compelling reason to update an operating system. I think that's why Microsoft is moving to a pay for service model for Windows. It can't keep the revenue stream alive unless Windows because a service instead of a product. For this reason, I am very reluctant to accept Windows 10 even if Microsoft offered it free. Microsoft wants to get people off of a pay-once product and onto monthly or yearly licenses because it can no longer follow the planned obsolescence model.

Dan8267 says

I only updated to Windows 8.1 because of hardware support and losing the ability to run modern software. I wanted a higher capacity drive than XP supported, an SSD, and a Direct X 11 video card. XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

Alien: Isolation can run on Windows 7.0, and according to what I read, many games run on 7.0 but not 8.0. So why 8?

I considered moving from XP to Win 7, but I liked Windows 8 better. It's a considerably better OS regardless of one's opinion of the GUI shells. The actual OS is better.

As for the GUI shells, it's easy to get rid of everything annoying in Win 8, and it then the shell actually looks and behaves more like XP than Win 7 did.

IMO, Win7 remains better, largely due to compatibility. Win7 can run most stuff built for XP, but Win8 cannot. I prefer the Win7 GUI also, but I could accept Win8.1 if it worked better. Perhaps MS hoped incompatibility would induce everyone to abandon their old gear and buy a Surface, but it hasn't worked out that way.

You know, you guys remind me of stone age cave men trying to figure out how to start a fire. The rest of us just use a matchstick.

hanera says

So why 8?

Here's a good brief article comparing Windows 8.1 to Windows 7. Basically, Windows 8.1 is faster, more secure, has better admin tools, has things that should have been in the OS a long time ago like ISO support. The only benefit of Windows 7 is more familiarity and no Metro, but as I stated above, you can completely get rid of Metro and never see it in Windows 8.1 with a little customization.

One thing the article doesn't mention, but I think is a big plus, is that you can resist moving to Windows 10 and later for much longer by jumping straight to 8.1. I don't have high hopes for Win 10. It would be nice to be wrong about that, but I'm not holding my breath.

Also, if you have older parents, Win 8.1 does a far, far better job at scaling text, graphics, chrome, etc. up so they can see it easily.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

The constant crashing, stalling, application freezing a

I've never had such problems on XP, 7, or 8.1. Keep the OS clean, don't install crapware, and once a year restore your OS image and your PC will run like new.

Dan8267 says

Keep the OS clean

How?

Dan8267 says

don't install crapware

Never met a "crapware" that said it was "crapware"

Dan8267 says

once a year restore your OS image

WTF is that?

Alternatively get an Apple.
You know Dan, you solve problems like a Californian Politician. I solve problems like a successful businessman.

Strategist says

How?

1. Install the OS clean on a newly formatted partition that is designated only for the OS.
2. Back up that image using Macrium Reflect or some other product. Macrium is free. Call the backup BareOSImage.
3. Install essential long-term apps that you will use for years. Back up the image calling it EssentialApps.
4. Install other apps as you need, but don't just try out apps like crazy on your actual machine. Instead, if you want to try an app, install it in a VM. Many free options are available.
5. Once a year restore the image EssentialApps to clean out all the left over installations of whatever apps you did install on your host OS and later uninstalled.

Doing this will keep your PC running like new all the time. Backing up an OS partition takes about ten minutes, during which you just drink a beer and watch part of a t.v. show. The process does not require monitoring.

Restoring the OS partition takes fifteen minutes and you don't have to baby sit it either.

It can't get easier.

Strategist says

Never met a "crapware" that said it was "crapware"

I've never met a salesman who said he was a fraudster.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

once a year restore your OS image

WTF is that?

Alternatively get an Apple.

You know Dan, you solve problems like a Californian Politician. I solve problems like a successful businessman.

The operating system is irrelevant. If you aren't imaging your OS drive, you aren't doing proper system administration and are subjecting yourself to the needless risk of system failure at an inconvenient time.

So, Strategist, you are actually failing to solve problems like a foolish businessman who doesn't do proper risk/benefit analysis. This is why the IT department, not the CEO, should do all risk analysis in technology.

If what I'm writing is too difficult for you to understand, that means you need to become more computer literate. That class you took back in 1986 isn't worth shit today.

I could infect my PC with every virus known to mankind and recover in 15 minutes of which a whole 45 seconds of my actual time is spent. If you can't do that, you are making life harder for yourself than it needs to be.

Dan8267 says

If what I'm writing is too difficult for you to understand, that means you need to become more computer literate. That class you took back in 1986 isn't worth shit today.

It is impossible for me to understand anything you said. And I couldn't be bothered.
Here is my point.....if you tech guys and companies want me to keep you in business by buying your products, you better make it user friendly. All that stuff you said went over my head. Let the computer do all that on it's own, why even ask me? When I turn on a car, it's to get from point A to point B. I could care less for all the technicalities. I don't recall ever opening the hood of the Prius I got 3 or 4 years ago. An electric car I got last month did end up with me looking under the hood, only because an engineer friend wanted to look inside. I could care less.
The same thing goes when I turn on the PC. It's to use a software or get on a web site. If the PC does anything else or takes too long, I expect it to identify and fix the problem on it's own. I expect gadgets that I buy to be smarter than me, not dumber than me. Is that too much to ask for?

Dan8267 says

Restoring the OS partition takes fifteen minutes and you don't have to baby sit it either.

What about all the updates that need to be downloaded and re-installed, often requiring a series of restarts?

Strategist says

And I couldn't be bothered.

This is where Apple succeeds and Microsoft fails: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Apple chooses to make hardware and software that work simply. Customers love it, especially customers who do not want to get dragged into the technical details.

Microsoft tries to copy Apple by making Windows appear simple, but that over-simplification causes endless problems. Microsoft has forgotten the directness of DOS and has failed to incorporate fully the practicality of the Internet: Windows produces countless obscure error messages, and does not even let users copy and paste those errors into a search engine. (Windows may occasionally offer to search for help on the Internet, but in my experience that fails every time. I laugh out loud when it suggests "phone a friend," like a game show on TV.) I had to create a DOS batch file to get Windows "Device Manager" to show all devices, because Windows insisted on creating duplicate entries and hiding them from view, and then getting lost among them. DOS and Windows through 3.11 worked for people who were interested in taking apart their computers and making everything work, then from 95 onwards MSFT over-simplified the GUI while making the underlying OS exponentially more complex with registries and multiple user accounts on each personal computer.

As the market shifted to smartphones, which people can't take apart, AAPL has surpassed MSFT. Ironically, MSFT has actually accelerated that shift by producing oversimplified (and thus really difficult) operating systems that drove people away from desktops. (The HDD duopoly of Seagate and WD hurt too, raising the cost of the destkop's storage advantage.) Due to the problems in the desktop space, people are buying either smartphones or Arduino/Raspberry or a combination.

Strategist says

if you tech guys and companies want me to keep you in business by buying your products, you better make it user friendly. All that stuff you said went over my head. Let the computer do all that on it's own, why even ask me? When I turn on a car, it's to get from point A to point B.

You can either have control or a hands-off experience. You can't have both. Control, by definition, requires understanding.

Can you replace the internal combustion engine in your care with an electric motor? Can you replace the chassis/body of a Ford Escort with one for a Lamborghini? Can you replace the built-in GPS navigation system with another? Can you replace the dashboard with a different one? Sure, but it's hard as balls with cars. In contrast, doing such things are easy with computers.

You can choose to have a hands-off experience. It's called the Cloud. You don't have to configure or administer anything, but you don't have any control either. I prefer control.

curious2 says

What about all the updates that need to be downloaded and re-installed, often requiring a series of restarts?

I typically make OS backups with every service pack or when I reset my system to a prior backup. I prefer to rarely update my OS until a service pack comes out. I don't need the latest panicked security patches to keep my system free of malware. And even if I got any malware, it's fifteen unattended minutes to get rid of it, much less than the time it takes to install the typical week's patches.

I ran Win XP SP3 from April 2008 until December 2014, not even installing later patches, with absolutely no problems.

Yes, there are trade-offs, but I find saving your OS partition and restoring it once a year is a pretty good system. My current workhorse PC is over five years old and runs faster than most PCs you can buy today (unless you reinstall the OS). Same for my Home Theater PC. One caveat: I did recently install an SSD and that hosts both my operating system and most applications.

Dan8267 says

The operating system is irrelevant. If you aren't imaging your OS drive, you aren't doing proper system administration and are subjecting yourself to the needless risk of system failure at an inconvenient time.

Have you heard of Time Machine?

Downloading a PC app from the Internet is like pouring raw sewage onto your carpet.
This is where Microsoft is failing. They provide APIs for developers, but they failed to provide a safe application source for users.
So people use only services on the web rather than dedicated apps using windows APIs.

People now typically use far more apps on their cell phones than on their PCs.

The PC should by right still be the center place of people's digital world but is losing this role because Microsoft has totally, wantonly, abandoned all willingness to make it so, and abandoned the willingness to defend Windows APIs as the key computing platform - and with that the willingness to live, as a company.

Dan8267 says

Can you replace the internal combustion engine in your care with an electric motor?

I can't even replace the freakin oil.

Dan8267 says

Can you replace the built-in GPS navigation system with another?

Iphone Dan, iphone. I ask Siri to do everything. That's one girl with one helluva sense of direction.

Heraclitusstudent says

Dan8267 says

The operating system is irrelevant. If you aren't imaging your OS drive, you aren't doing proper system administration and are subjecting yourself to the needless risk of system failure at an inconvenient time.

Have you heard of Time Machine?

Yes, it's Apple's knockoff of Shadow copy.

Heraclitusstudent says

Downloading a PC app from the Internet is like pouring raw sewage onto your carpet.

All apps on PCs or phones, on Windows or Unix (including MACs) are distributed over the Internet today. When was the last time you bought physical media.

Heraclitusstudent says

They provide APIs for developers, but they failed to provide a safe application source for users.

PC users generally don't like being boxed into a single store whether it's for music, apps, television, or anything else.

I don't need an Apple or Microsoft app store. I need an OS that properly isolates apps so that malware is impossible. I wrote about this is another thread, calling it a third generation OS.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Can you replace the built-in GPS navigation system with another?

Iphone Dan, iphone. I ask Siri to do everything.

Not relevant to the point.

Dan8267 says

All apps on PCs or phones, on Windows or Unix (including MACs) are distributed over the Internet today. When was the last time you bought physical media.

That's the point.

Dan8267 says

PC users generally don't like being boxed into a single store whether it's for music, apps, television, or anything else.

No one needs to be boxed. You can have a choice.

Dan8267 says

I need an OS that properly isolates apps so that malware is impossible.

Yeah, that would be even better. But I guess they didn't even try.

I have never known anybody who was smart enough not to download "Free" Casino or Porn programs from the internet to get a virus.

The only time I ever got a virus on windows was when I hit close through website spam too many times, and hit "Next" by mixtake; I knew I fucked up the second after I hit it and went straight to Avast. This was like 15 years ago.

Really? I think after being burned a couple of times, many Windows users decide not to download anything outside very reputable sources like Mozilla.

I guess some apps on your phone can steal your contacts.

A key logger on your PC could steal financial accounts logins, or tax records for example.

That tends to make me paranoiac...

Dan8267 says

Yes, it's Apple's knockoff of Shadow copy.

It comes standard with MacOS.

Heraclitusstudent says

Dan8267 says

Yes, it's Apple's knockoff of Shadow copy.

It comes standard with MacOS.

Shadow Copy has come standard with Windows since XP (2001). Apple first released Time Machine on October 26, 2007 at it didn't do nearly as much as Shadow Copy.

Once again, Apple fanboys claim Apple invented something that other companies have been doing for nearly a decade before. Apple would need an actual time machine to have invented anything.

And I mean really, who would think that Apple, with it's priorities, would come up with a backup system supporting both volumes and individual files and version control before a B2B/B2C tech company like Microsoft?

Dan8267 says

Shadow Copy has come standard with Windows since XP (2001). Apple first released Time Machine on October 26, 2007 at it didn't do nearly as much as Shadow Copy.

Once again, Apple fanboys claim Apple invented something that other companies have been doing for nearly a decade before. Apple would need an actual time machine to have invented anything.

And I mean really, who would think that Apple, with it's priorities, would come up with a backup system supporting both volumes and individual files and version control before a B2B/B2C tech company like Microsoft?

People don't buy things based on who invented what. They buy things based on needs and wants. When Apple comes out with something new the crowds go berserk, but for Microsoft......LOL. It's the same old crap.

Heraclitusstudent says

A key logger on your PC could steal financial accounts logins, or tax records for example.

That tends to make me paranoiac...

I hate to break this to you -- no wait, I love to break this to you -- but iPhones came with a factory-installed keylogger that you couldn't uninstall called "Carrier IQ". So much for Apple products being more secure.

And there are other keylogger attacks on iPhones. Oh, and whose cloud was hacked releasing naked pictures of celebrities? Oh yes, that was Apple. And Apple knew about their security flaws 6 months before the hacking and didn't bother to fix them.

So get off your high horse about Apple. The real history of the company and its crappy polished turd products and stolen ideas does not warrant the status you bestow upon it. And quite frankly, any person who cannot criticize a company or its product is someone who's opinion does not matter. My opinions on Microsoft and other companies are well-founded as demonstrated by the fact I can go into great detail about what those companies did right and what they did wrong. It proves I'm not religious about products like the Apple fan base is.

Apple fans are not tech aficionados. They are ill-informed consumers brainwashed into thinking that using a particular company's products makes them better people than others. It doesn't. It makes them mindless zombies, slave to a corporation that doesn't give a shit about them.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/CZGIn9bpALo

Heraclitusstudent says

That tends to make me paranoiac...

Tens to make me use Linux.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

BSD is very stable.

Nothing Apple has ever done is original in any dimension.

But choosing BSD as an operating system was a very sound decision.

Ah, but Apple didn't make BSD. BSD or Berkley Software Distributions has a long and ugly history going back to the 1970s, long before Apple abandoned it's MAC OS System N operating system (although it kept the marketing name of the OS). BSD was created by the University of California at Berkeley, a place where acid consumption was mandated by law in the 1970s.

Most products, including operating systems, do get better with time. MAC OS was the exception; it had to be abandoned and replaced by BSD. But after about 40 years of development, most of the problems with Unix in general, and BSD in particular, will have been patched over. But the overall architecture of all versions of Unix is essentially the same as it was in the 1970s, and we've learned a hell of a lot about what's right and wrong in software development since then.

Dan8267 says

I hate to break this to you -- no wait, I love to break this to you -- but iPhones came with a factory-installed keylogger that you couldn't uninstall called "Carrier IQ". So much for Apple products being more secure.

Honey, I'm afraid you're not breaking anything. I know, and I don't use anything financial on my phone.

There's only one reason Macs didn't have many viruses until recently: Nobody used them. It was a waste of time to develop spyware and malware for a fraction of all computer users.

The only reason Macs didn't get malware was for the same reason Hermits don't get STDs.

thunderlips11 says

The only reason Macs didn't get malware was for the same reason Hermits don't get STDs.

Exactly!

Heraclitusstudent says

Honey, I'm afraid you're not breaking anything. I know, and I don't use anything financial on my phone.

Millions of people do. Smart phone security is a damn important issue. And even if you aren't directly victimized by banking or identify fraud, the fact that tens of millions of others are does impose a cost on you. So poo-pooing this subject matter is just plain foolishness.

Of course, Heraclitusstudent's short-sightedness is typical of Apple fanboys.

Dan8267 says

Ah, but Apple didn't make BSD.

No one's claiming that it did.

Here's a list of OS's which Microsoft didn't make:

- DOS
- Windows NT

Microsoft has a tradition of acquiring/absorbing products developed by others, and then ruining them. SQL Server is a notable exception.

And those Microsoft products designed in-house which survive (Office) should be far better products, given the resources MS has. MS Access is an insult to the human race.

At least they got .NET and Windows 8 right (in spite of the awful outer layer, I agree that Windows 8 is their best OS to date).