patrick.net

zzyzzx says

Microsoft ended support for Windows XP almost a year ago… and it still has more users than Windows 8

No wonder they are always getting hacked.

And now, oddly, MS will skip Windows 9 and jump to Windows 10.

One reason people stick with XP might be due to better audio outputs. XP can output audio simultaneously via analog and S/PDIF, so for example an HTPC or other setup can monitor locally the audio that it sends out digitally. Subsequent versions lack that ability.

Other reasons include hardware driver compatibility. Windows 8 cannot operate many hardware drivers written for XP or even Windows 7. Even Windows Vista, two versions prior to 8, lacked compatibility with devices designed for XP. People don't want to replace all their devices every time they update the OS.

Software compatibility adds more issues, especially in the for-profit software licensing market. Windows has a feature called "VERSIONLIE" to get software written for older Windows versions to work with the latest version: the OS lies to the software about which version of Windows is operating. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but the reason it's needed is because the software companies want to sell you a new version of their software every time MS updates the OS.

Storage and CPU capacity have expanded even faster than Windows, so I wish each Windows version would include the prior versions able to operate in their own little Windows. That way, longtime customers could add the new OS features without losing the old stuff. It doesn't happen though; instead, each version throws out most of the old and replaces it with a whole new set of torments that seem calculated to drive people to Linux.

I think it's beginning to dawn on people that OS's are now a commodity.

Looks as if treating your customers like disposable wipes for 20 years has consequences.

My Windows XP allows me to delete crap & make stupid comments on the interwebs.

Damn great product!

The fact that Windows XP is no longer supported means nothing. I ran XP until about half a year ago. I was using SP3 since it came out and didn't install any updates after SP3 because I knew there was not going to be any SP4. Despite that, I never had a problem with XP or any viruses. My system was completely secured.

I only updated to Windows 8.1 because of hardware support and losing the ability to run modern software. I wanted a higher capacity drive than XP supported, an SSD, and a Direct X 11 video card. XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

I don't have any major complaints about Windows 8.1. As an OS, it's the first that's on par with XP x32, maybe slightly ahead because of the better hardware support, memory space, and a few nice features. All the complaints I do have about the OS are ones that go back all the way to Windows 95.

As for other people's complaints, they are always about the Explorer desktop shell, not the OS. I prefer the shell in XP mostly, but Win 8.1's shell overall is better than Windows 7, the notable exception being the Metro crap. Luckily, you can ignore Metro entirely and you can tweak Win 8.1 to remove almost all of the other annoying stuff in its desktop shell -- the one exception being the stupid charms bar.

There were a few visual improvements to the desktop shell from Win 7 to Win 8 including getting rid of the shine effect on the application toolbar that obscured the window titles. One noticeable disimprovement is that if you take out an audio device (say headphones) and plug something else in, you have to close the media application writing to the device and reopen it even if it's going out the analog jack.

The big disappointment in Windows and other operating systems (well, Unix as that's the only other system out there anymore) is that they don't do the things I want a modern OS to do such as keep applications in check. Every app should be sandboxed in its disk access and network access unless I unleash it. With few exceptions, there's no reason why any app should be allowed to read from or write to any directory other than its install directory and the folder for its data files.

zzyzzx says

Windows XP still has more users than Windows 8

Microsoft is still making an os? People still buy it? How quaint.

bob2356 says

zzyzzx says

Windows XP still has more users than Windows 8

Microsoft is still making an os? People still buy it? How quaint.

Can you believe it? I thought MS Windows users would learn after it freezes for the 100th time.

Dan8267 says

XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

He plays video games. That explains a lot.

Most people are more 'letter oriented' than 'number savvy'...
'splains a lot...

zzyzzx says

Windows XP still has more users than Windows 8

curious2 says

One reason people stick with XP might be due to better audio outputs. XP can output audio simultaneously via analog and S/PDIF, so for example an HTPC or other setup can monitor locally the audio that it sends out digitally. Subsequent versions lack that ability.

Subesquent versions just suck ass in general at audio recording period!
I recorded some great tracks on Windows XP, in fact I would bet a large percentage of those still on Windows XP use it for Audio and Video production. All great things to do to lock up your computer and destroy all of your hard work on a Windows 8 or even 7 box for that matter. I quit even trying to get interfaces to work on Windows 7 box without getting the blue screen of death. That by time Windows 8 even came along, I knew better than to even try.

Now what really blows my mind, is how I can record 8 tracks of 24/196 similtaniously on a Android device since Later versions of Jelly Bean.

Dan8267 says

With few exceptions, there's no reason why any app should be allowed to read from or write to any directory other than its install directory and the folder for its data files.

Unless it's an Enterprise service, or any worker process.

What I always wanted to see in Windows, is a place where installed programs are listed and you can enable them or disable them. I always said that even before Firefox was ever created or their manage Plugin and Extension page, where you can basically turn on or off.
Also every program that is installed regardless is installed in a disabled state, after you install it, you have to go to the enable settings and enable it.

Also every registry setting should be logged and as well as the process the created it, in one master log.

Basically taking MS Restore monstrosity and instead of a place to Undo months of computer settings, the Utility could be used to see malware observe the damage they've done.
Not only kill them, but be able to find and undo all of the damage it tried to do. It would make malware, adware, bloatware and oemware useless and infective. Unless the enduser just didn't give a crap about what get's put on his machine.

curious2 says

One reason people stick with XP might be due to better audio outputs. XP can output audio simultaneously via analog and S/PDIF, so for example an HTPC or other setup can monitor locally the audio that it sends out digitally. Subsequent versions lack that ability.

Dan8267 says

I only updated to Windows 8.1 because of hardware support and losing the ability to run modern software. I wanted a higher capacity drive than XP supported, an SSD, and a Direct X 11 video card. XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

CaptainShuddup says

Now what really blows my mind, is how I can record 8 tracks of 24/196 similtaniously on a Android device since Later versions of Jelly Bean.

Good thing I don't understand a word of what you techie aliens are saying. Why don't you guys keep it simple like I do. If it sounds good, it is good. Problem solved.

Strategist says

Good thing I don't understand a word of what you techie aliens are saying.

Good because I mean 24 bit 192kHz high res digital audio.

komputodo says

Dan8267 says

XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

He plays video games. That explains a lot.

Intelligent people play video games. Dumb asses play football. 'Nuff said.

CaptainShuddup says

Dan8267 says

With few exceptions, there's no reason why any app should be allowed to read from or write to any directory other than its install directory and the folder for its data files.

Unless it's an Enterprise service, or any worker process.

And in that case, the operating system should act as a gateway and provide a secure API for such operations. Christ, we're not like we have to do things as stupidly as Unix does. We use real computers today. We should run real software. [Flame war in 3, 2, 1...]

Strategist says

Good thing I don't understand a word of what you techie aliens are saying.

We're doing the computer equivalent of talking about manual vs automatic transmissions. If you're a computer user like anyone under 60 today, you should understand what we are saying. It's not high tech. Do you buy a car without knowing if it's an automatic or manual?

anonymous says

U.S. Navy to Microsoft: We'll give you $9M to keep Windows XP alive.

Chump change to Microsoft. Make it $9B and we'll talk.

I've had yet to hear a single complaint about the actual operating system of Windows 8 anywhere on the Internet. It's not like there isn't plenty to complain about, although all of my complaints apply to prior versions of Windows going back to the original NT in most cases. However, the only complaints I hear about Windows 8 are about the desktop and Metro shells, not the operating system.

And most, if not all, of these complaints can be easily rectified. I hate Metro like everyone else, but I never, ever see it. I never see the app screen, the Metro desktop, the charms bar, or any of that other crap. Hell, I don't even see the annoying images, videos, documents folders in File Explorer because I removed them from the interface. Pretty much every annoyance has an easy fix. People just need to learn how to customize their desktop to their liking. It's impossible to please everyone with a single configuration. One size does not fit all.

zzyzzx says

How much has Windows 8 bombed with PC users? So much that an obsolete operating system that had its technical support cut off nearly a full year ago still has more global users.

Except for new hardware support, there is no compelling reason to update an operating system. I think that's why Microsoft is moving to a pay for service model for Windows. It can't keep the revenue stream alive unless Windows because a service instead of a product. For this reason, I am very reluctant to accept Windows 10 even if Microsoft offered it free. Microsoft wants to get people off of a pay-once product and onto monthly or yearly licenses because it can no longer follow the planned obsolescence model.

Dan8267 says

I only updated to Windows 8.1 because of hardware support and losing the ability to run modern software. I wanted a higher capacity drive than XP supported, an SSD, and a Direct X 11 video card. XP only supports Direct X 9.0c and you can't play Alien Isolation, which is an incredible game, possibly the best ever made.

Alien: Isolation can run on Windows 7.0, and according to what I read, many games run on 7.0 but not 8.0. So why 8?

I considered moving from XP to Win 7, but I liked Windows 8 better. It's a considerably better OS regardless of one's opinion of the GUI shells. The actual OS is better.

As for the GUI shells, it's easy to get rid of everything annoying in Win 8, and it then the shell actually looks and behaves more like XP than Win 7 did.

IMO, Win7 remains better, largely due to compatibility. Win7 can run most stuff built for XP, but Win8 cannot. I prefer the Win7 GUI also, but I could accept Win8.1 if it worked better. Perhaps MS hoped incompatibility would induce everyone to abandon their old gear and buy a Surface, but it hasn't worked out that way.

You know, you guys remind me of stone age cave men trying to figure out how to start a fire. The rest of us just use a matchstick.

hanera says

So why 8?

Here's a good brief article comparing Windows 8.1 to Windows 7. Basically, Windows 8.1 is faster, more secure, has better admin tools, has things that should have been in the OS a long time ago like ISO support. The only benefit of Windows 7 is more familiarity and no Metro, but as I stated above, you can completely get rid of Metro and never see it in Windows 8.1 with a little customization.

One thing the article doesn't mention, but I think is a big plus, is that you can resist moving to Windows 10 and later for much longer by jumping straight to 8.1. I don't have high hopes for Win 10. It would be nice to be wrong about that, but I'm not holding my breath.

Also, if you have older parents, Win 8.1 does a far, far better job at scaling text, graphics, chrome, etc. up so they can see it easily.

DieBankOfAmericaPhukkingDie says

The constant crashing, stalling, application freezing a

I've never had such problems on XP, 7, or 8.1. Keep the OS clean, don't install crapware, and once a year restore your OS image and your PC will run like new.

Dan8267 says

Keep the OS clean

How?

Dan8267 says

don't install crapware

Never met a "crapware" that said it was "crapware"

Dan8267 says

once a year restore your OS image

WTF is that?

Alternatively get an Apple.
You know Dan, you solve problems like a Californian Politician. I solve problems like a successful businessman.

Strategist says

How?

1. Install the OS clean on a newly formatted partition that is designated only for the OS.
2. Back up that image using Macrium Reflect or some other product. Macrium is free. Call the backup BareOSImage.
3. Install essential long-term apps that you will use for years. Back up the image calling it EssentialApps.
4. Install other apps as you need, but don't just try out apps like crazy on your actual machine. Instead, if you want to try an app, install it in a VM. Many free options are available.
5. Once a year restore the image EssentialApps to clean out all the left over installations of whatever apps you did install on your host OS and later uninstalled.

Doing this will keep your PC running like new all the time. Backing up an OS partition takes about ten minutes, during which you just drink a beer and watch part of a t.v. show. The process does not require monitoring.

Restoring the OS partition takes fifteen minutes and you don't have to baby sit it either.

It can't get easier.

Strategist says

Never met a "crapware" that said it was "crapware"

I've never met a salesman who said he was a fraudster.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

once a year restore your OS image

WTF is that?

Alternatively get an Apple.

You know Dan, you solve problems like a Californian Politician. I solve problems like a successful businessman.

The operating system is irrelevant. If you aren't imaging your OS drive, you aren't doing proper system administration and are subjecting yourself to the needless risk of system failure at an inconvenient time.

So, Strategist, you are actually failing to solve problems like a foolish businessman who doesn't do proper risk/benefit analysis. This is why the IT department, not the CEO, should do all risk analysis in technology.

If what I'm writing is too difficult for you to understand, that means you need to become more computer literate. That class you took back in 1986 isn't worth shit today.

I could infect my PC with every virus known to mankind and recover in 15 minutes of which a whole 45 seconds of my actual time is spent. If you can't do that, you are making life harder for yourself than it needs to be.

Dan8267 says

If what I'm writing is too difficult for you to understand, that means you need to become more computer literate. That class you took back in 1986 isn't worth shit today.

It is impossible for me to understand anything you said. And I couldn't be bothered.
Here is my point.....if you tech guys and companies want me to keep you in business by buying your products, you better make it user friendly. All that stuff you said went over my head. Let the computer do all that on it's own, why even ask me? When I turn on a car, it's to get from point A to point B. I could care less for all the technicalities. I don't recall ever opening the hood of the Prius I got 3 or 4 years ago. An electric car I got last month did end up with me looking under the hood, only because an engineer friend wanted to look inside. I could care less.
The same thing goes when I turn on the PC. It's to use a software or get on a web site. If the PC does anything else or takes too long, I expect it to identify and fix the problem on it's own. I expect gadgets that I buy to be smarter than me, not dumber than me. Is that too much to ask for?

Dan8267 says

Restoring the OS partition takes fifteen minutes and you don't have to baby sit it either.

What about all the updates that need to be downloaded and re-installed, often requiring a series of restarts?

Strategist says

And I couldn't be bothered.

This is where Apple succeeds and Microsoft fails: "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Apple chooses to make hardware and software that work simply. Customers love it, especially customers who do not want to get dragged into the technical details.

Microsoft tries to copy Apple by making Windows appear simple, but that over-simplification causes endless problems. Microsoft has forgotten the directness of DOS and has failed to incorporate fully the practicality of the Internet: Windows produces countless obscure error messages, and does not even let users copy and paste those errors into a search engine. (Windows may occasionally offer to search for help on the Internet, but in my experience that fails every time. I laugh out loud when it suggests "phone a friend," like a game show on TV.) I had to create a DOS batch file to get Windows "Device Manager" to show all devices, because Windows insisted on creating duplicate entries and hiding them from view, and then getting lost among them. DOS and Windows through 3.11 worked for people who were interested in taking apart their computers and making everything work, then from 95 onwards MSFT over-simplified the GUI while making the underlying OS exponentially more complex with registries and multiple user accounts on each personal computer.

As the market shifted to smartphones, which people can't take apart, AAPL has surpassed MSFT. Ironically, MSFT has actually accelerated that shift by producing oversimplified (and thus really difficult) operating systems that drove people away from desktops. (The HDD duopoly of Seagate and WD hurt too, raising the cost of the destkop's storage advantage.) Due to the problems in the desktop space, people are buying either smartphones or Arduino/Raspberry or a combination.

Strategist says

if you tech guys and companies want me to keep you in business by buying your products, you better make it user friendly. All that stuff you said went over my head. Let the computer do all that on it's own, why even ask me? When I turn on a car, it's to get from point A to point B.

You can either have control or a hands-off experience. You can't have both. Control, by definition, requires understanding.

Can you replace the internal combustion engine in your care with an electric motor? Can you replace the chassis/body of a Ford Escort with one for a Lamborghini? Can you replace the built-in GPS navigation system with another? Can you replace the dashboard with a different one? Sure, but it's hard as balls with cars. In contrast, doing such things are easy with computers.

You can choose to have a hands-off experience. It's called the Cloud. You don't have to configure or administer anything, but you don't have any control either. I prefer control.

curious2 says

What about all the updates that need to be downloaded and re-installed, often requiring a series of restarts?

I typically make OS backups with every service pack or when I reset my system to a prior backup. I prefer to rarely update my OS until a service pack comes out. I don't need the latest panicked security patches to keep my system free of malware. And even if I got any malware, it's fifteen unattended minutes to get rid of it, much less than the time it takes to install the typical week's patches.

I ran Win XP SP3 from April 2008 until December 2014, not even installing later patches, with absolutely no problems.

Yes, there are trade-offs, but I find saving your OS partition and restoring it once a year is a pretty good system. My current workhorse PC is over five years old and runs faster than most PCs you can buy today (unless you reinstall the OS). Same for my Home Theater PC. One caveat: I did recently install an SSD and that hosts both my operating system and most applications.

Dan8267 says

The operating system is irrelevant. If you aren't imaging your OS drive, you aren't doing proper system administration and are subjecting yourself to the needless risk of system failure at an inconvenient time.

Have you heard of Time Machine?

Downloading a PC app from the Internet is like pouring raw sewage onto your carpet.
This is where Microsoft is failing. They provide APIs for developers, but they failed to provide a safe application source for users.
So people use only services on the web rather than dedicated apps using windows APIs.

People now typically use far more apps on their cell phones than on their PCs.

The PC should by right still be the center place of people's digital world but is losing this role because Microsoft has totally, wantonly, abandoned all willingness to make it so, and abandoned the willingness to defend Windows APIs as the key computing platform - and with that the willingness to live, as a company.

Dan8267 says

Can you replace the internal combustion engine in your care with an electric motor?

I can't even replace the freakin oil.

Dan8267 says

Can you replace the built-in GPS navigation system with another?

Iphone Dan, iphone. I ask Siri to do everything. That's one girl with one helluva sense of direction.

Heraclitusstudent says

Dan8267 says

The operating system is irrelevant. If you aren't imaging your OS drive, you aren't doing proper system administration and are subjecting yourself to the needless risk of system failure at an inconvenient time.

Have you heard of Time Machine?

Yes, it's Apple's knockoff of Shadow copy.

Heraclitusstudent says

Downloading a PC app from the Internet is like pouring raw sewage onto your carpet.

All apps on PCs or phones, on Windows or Unix (including MACs) are distributed over the Internet today. When was the last time you bought physical media.

Heraclitusstudent says

They provide APIs for developers, but they failed to provide a safe application source for users.

PC users generally don't like being boxed into a single store whether it's for music, apps, television, or anything else.

I don't need an Apple or Microsoft app store. I need an OS that properly isolates apps so that malware is impossible. I wrote about this is another thread, calling it a third generation OS.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Can you replace the built-in GPS navigation system with another?

Iphone Dan, iphone. I ask Siri to do everything.

Not relevant to the point.

Dan8267 says

All apps on PCs or phones, on Windows or Unix (including MACs) are distributed over the Internet today. When was the last time you bought physical media.

That's the point.

Dan8267 says

PC users generally don't like being boxed into a single store whether it's for music, apps, television, or anything else.

No one needs to be boxed. You can have a choice.

Dan8267 says

I need an OS that properly isolates apps so that malware is impossible.

Yeah, that would be even better. But I guess they didn't even try.

I have never known anybody who was smart enough not to download "Free" Casino or Porn programs from the internet to get a virus.

The only time I ever got a virus on windows was when I hit close through website spam too many times, and hit "Next" by mixtake; I knew I fucked up the second after I hit it and went straight to Avast. This was like 15 years ago.

Really? I think after being burned a couple of times, many Windows users decide not to download anything outside very reputable sources like Mozilla.

I guess some apps on your phone can steal your contacts.

A key logger on your PC could steal financial accounts logins, or tax records for example.

That tends to make me paranoiac...