patrick.net

Considering that the majority of these refugees are fighting age males.

Why not train them up and send them back to Syria to fight for their homes?

Are we really doing the Middle East any favors by allowing this brain-drain to occur by accepting all the "moderates" and leaving the place for ISIS to run their sex slave camps, blowing up ancient archaeological sites and commit genocide?

sorry, but this is unacceptable. islam is utterly incompatible with democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion.

sure, only 10% of them really really want to kill us, but that's still 1,000 people.

aid them somewhere else, just don't bring them here!

Go visit Manzanar. Hysterics like you made it possible.

It might give you some ideas as to a final solution to the Muslim problem.

1830s: Dirty Irishmen are defiling America, know no decency.

1880s: Filthy Chinamen are defiling America, know no decency.

1900: Filthy wops are defiling America, know no decency.

1940s: The Japs will destroy America - the enemy in our midst!

One huge problem with xenophobic bigots like you is their abysmal track record with respect to ever being right about anything.

I'm sure it's different this time.

socal2 says

Why not train them up and send them back to Syria to fight for their homes?

I really like this idea! What could possibly go wrong with training and arming these guys and then sending them off to fight for us?

On a more serious note, this whole situation is just unfathomably sad. There are some very solid arguments against helping them. Yet, they're people and people can change. Many of them may already be wonderful people. Some of them are not even Muslim. It's sad to think of what will happen to such people, just as it is sad to think of what will happen if a few violent refugees kill innocents here in the states after we show compassion by allowing them in.

I predict all of the national discussion about this will focus on whether or not we let them in. It will be a bitter debate and both sides will hurl insults at the other. If we directed our energy toward finding a better solution ... perhaps we could find a better solution. Here's one - albeit a dumb one that would not work - let all the atheist, christian, and jewish refugees in. Then, perhaps, devise some comprehensive personality test for the rest - identify all the people we can be reasonably certain are not a threat (even if it's just 1%) and let them in. Accept all the babies, even if the parents can't come, and pay Americans to adopt them. It would be expensive, but it's the sort of expenditure that might save money and lives in the long run.
Maybe this would not work, but it's very sad to me to think of all the innocents - especially the young children - who will die because, arguably, nations around the world spent more time worrying and arguing about whether or not to take any risk rather than planning and devising strategies to save as many innocent lives as possible. Here in the US, we spend so much of our tax money on bullshit - I would be happy to spend more for a good cause, if only our leaders were capable.

Let them in on one condition: neuter

HydroCabron says

It might give you some ideas as to a final solution to the Muslim problem.

1830s: Dirty Irishmen are defiling America, know no decency.

1880s: Filthy Chinamen are defiling America, know no decency.

1900: Filthy wops are defiling America, know no decency.

1940s: The Japs will destroy America - the enemy in our midst!

One huge problem with xenophobic bigots like you is their abysmal track record with respect to ever being right about anything.

I'm sure it's different this time.

you cannot just extrapolate some bullshit trent to the muslim problem.
India has assimilated several religions and people over many centuries due to its inclusive religion but guess which religion they still have problem with ? --> muslims.
infact , india is the only country on the face of the earth where jews were never prosecuted. India is also the birthplace of the buddha and yoga.
basically , indians are very non -violent and tolerant ..birthplace of gandhi.
If a country like india still has issues with muslims...you can only imagine what US will have.
The bottomline is that islam is the only religion ( unique) which has its primary holy books like quran having legal system ( sharia) and political framework ( sunna) mixed up with religion.
"no other religion has it". all religions only deal with spiritualism. i don't think bible has a chapter on setting up a government.
There is no religious hindu text which talks about governance.
it's easy to assimilate other religions without any conflict with a country's political and legal framework because they don't have anything except spiritualism in their religion. I can be the most conservative hindu but still can easily accept american legal/constitutional/political system because it does not conflict with my religion.
Any devout muslim will have a fundamental struggle with any democracy or man made system because it conflicts with a system that's there in Quran.
There is a reason why almost all the countries have problem with muslim assimilation.
The bible which almost entirely deals with spiritualism still causes contention in american politics because it conflicts with gay rights , women's rights ...etc. now imagine , if it had everything from law and order to how to elect the president in it ?

indianguybayarea says

The bottomline is that islam is the only religion ( unique) which has its primary holy books like quran having legal system ( sharia) and political framework ( sunna) mixed up with religion.

Yes - they are a special devil. As are all the previous devils.

Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.
And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.
Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.

-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

HydroCabron says

Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.

And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.

Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.

-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

India is a relatively non-violent country that has integrated people from several religions and cultures, including Jews and yet they still have difficulty with insurgent muslims who have questionable loyalties.

Indian muslims cheer when pakistan beats India in cricket even if they have been in the country for centuries because they are muslims first and indians second. Irish, Japanese Chinese and Italians are most definitely different from that perspective

Not sure what the mein kampf post was about.

MMR says

because they are muslims first and indians second

Hitler says the same about Jews: they never adopt the nationality of countries they inhabit.

I'll dig up my copy of Mein Kampf later. It is in my storage locker.

indianguybayarea says

i don't think bible has a chapter on setting up a government.

There is no religious hindu text which talks about governance.

you need to look closer, its loaded with governmental objectives. Chock full, in fact.

I'm still trying to recall those incidents where Irish, Italians , Chinese and Japanese people funded terrorism in their native countries. I'm still trying to remember when Japanese people went back to Japan during WWII to become kamikaze fighters or those who openly expressed great delight in pearl harbor. Which Irish and Italians killed in the name of religion, with the exception of the IRA in Northern Ireland? Chinese spies are a tad bit more 'terrorist' than their Indian counterparts in this country but nowhere near the threat of the 1% of radicals in the name of Islam. The 99% of moderate muslims defer to them.

In all seriousness, any links to the latter from anyone else to the contrary would be greatly appreciated

The hundreds of thousands of young Muslim men invading Europe aren't refugees. They're an invading army. Country after country has had to close its borders to them after the tide of looting burning rapists came through terrorizing their citizens. This army might not have guns, but anyone who thinks that doesn't make them dangerous is a fool. Their most tolerant and well-meaning mission is to settle in Europe, get as many wives from the local population as possible, and breed like lemmings until they've displaced the locals. Then they'll be in a position to write whatever laws they desire. It's just a matter of 25 years or so and they'll be the clear majority. This invasion has been planned for a while and it's taking place now. European leaders are complicit. They know what they are doing and they know why. Europe will fall not to the crash and boom of guns and bombs, but to the sound of a baby crying and the static wail from a minorette. All this will be accomplished in the name of that great sacred cow "multiculturalism."

MMR says

with the exception of the IRA in Northern Ireland

the IRA does not kill for religious reasons at all. they don't care if you become catholic or not.

they simply want to unify their own country and get equal rights. that said, it's a horrible disaster for their cause that they ever set off bombs to kill civilians.

HydroCabron says

Hitler says the same about Jews: they never adopt the nationality of countries they inhabit.

jews do resist assimilation (not all that successfully lately). but what they do not do is:

1. attempt to impose jewish religious law on everyone
2. murder you if you use freedom of speech to criticise them
3. murder you if you leave judaism
4. deliberately murder random civilians in their host countries

There's a reason the water bastard isn't taken seriously. He's impervious to common sense!

22% of Syrians call ISIL/Daesh "a positive influence." Could we please at least exclude those 22%, even if they say it's their religion?

These refugees that you are so afraid of are mostly widows and children who's loved ones were murdered by ISIS or other violence in the area. They are subject to 18 months of scrutiny before they are let in. There have been zero arrests of refugees for terrorism in the US since 2001. Time to put the goblet of fear and loathing away.

jews do resist assimilation (not all that successfully lately). but what they do not do is:

1. attempt to impose jewish religious law on everyone

2. murder you if you use freedom of speech to criticise them

3. murder you if you leave judaism

4. deliberately murder random civilians in their host countries

So, why did most Americans want to prevent immigration of refugees from Hitler's regime? In particular, they didn't want to take the Jews. Here's snope's take on it if you don't trust the social media posts RE the Harvard Crimson poll: http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/17/harvard-crimson-jewish-refugees/.

Quigley says

The hundreds of thousands of young Muslim men invading Europe aren't refugees. They're an invading army.

Does this gem come from your own head or some sort of fear-based news program?

YesYNot says

Does this gem come from your own head or some sort of fear-based news program?

It comes straight from the blood of the victims in Paris. You should be ashamed of your smug attempts of downplaying this violence.

mell says

It comes straight from the blood of the victims in Paris. You should be ashamed of your smug attempts of downplaying this violence.

Perhaps you should be ashamed of inferring meaning from blood. What are you going to read next, the tea leaves? Does calling me smug make you feel better about your fearful position?

Rough cut plan...

0- Surround isis held territory with massive NATO forces to contain them and make it impossible for them to escape.
1- create refugee cities in syria/iraq
2- Heavily fortify them with NATO forces, 100,000 or so, making it impossible for isis to penetrate
3- redirect all refugees to these places. Vet each one as much as possible to minimize the amount of sleeper cells.
4- Have the world contribute to food/water/shelter to keep the place going indefinitely.
5- Set a date to which refugees must evacuate isis held areas
6- Bring in the b52's and level the places to the ground.
7- Send in NATO ground troops to clean up the survivors.
8- Have the refugees rebuild and restock the land
9- Rinse and repeat until the majority wake up and enter the 21st century.

curious2 says

22% of Syrians call ISIL/Daesh "a positive influence." Could we please at least exclude those 22%, even if they say it's their religion?

I would guess it's even high because the poll probably didn't sample as many Syrians from the East of the country, due to ISIS control, where Sunni Islam dominates and hatred of Alawites, Kurds, and Shi'a is more prevalent.

YesYNot says

These refugees that you are so afraid of are mostly widows and children who's loved ones were murdered by ISIS or other violence in the area. They are subject to 18 months of scrutiny before they are let in. There have been zero arrests of refugees for terrorism in the US since 2001. Time to put the goblet of fear and loathing away.

They are overwhelmingly young men, and many of them are married and left their wives and children in MENA. Also, a huge number are non-Syrians pretending to be Syrian, by ditching their own passports in the sea. Authorities are reporting hilarious cases of black-as-midnight Eritreans and Somalis claiming to be Syrian. Multiple Copies of one of the Paris attackers' fake passport, same name and personal information but different photo, have been found in Europe in the hands of other migrants.

Like I said earlier - sending young British Males to South America 1939-1945 would contribute to an Allied Loss, not a Victory. Why accept young male Syrians?

thunderlips11 says

They are overwhelmingly young men, and many of them are married and left their wives and children in MENA.

Well, perhaps that is true of the refugees he is afraid of, but for all of the refugees in general, it is not true. Of those, 38% are under 12, and the slight majority are female.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/stretching-facts-on-syrian-refugees/

YesYNot says

Well, perhaps that is true of the refugees he is afraid of, but for all of the refugees in general, it is not true. Of those, 38% are under 12, and the slight majority are female.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/stretching-facts-on-syrian-refugees/

That is all refugees registered by the UNHCR. In other words, that counts all those living in Jordanese and Turkish and Lebanese Refugee Camps, it is not a count of the people streaming into Europe.

Where da women and children at?

Luegenpresse!

Don't know. But that picture doesn't necessarily represent the 10,000 Obama wants to bring in. If it does (I doubt it), I'll change my opinion.

YesYNot says

There have been zero arrests of refugees for terrorism in the US since 2001.

What is your source for that assertion? I have read of three cases, and I don't presume to know of most, let alone all. Furthermore, calling ISIL/Daesh "a positive influence" is not an arrestable offense, even though it suggests an alarming risk level.

Plenty of refugees get involved with Terror, like Mohamed Osman Mohamud.

Not to mention all the terror cases that aren't called terror, like Muhammad Abdulaziz .

And of course the Boston Bombers, also Refugees. Multiple US authorities knew all about their radicalism, but figured they were more of a threat to Russia and didn't bother tracking them closely.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/tsarnaev-boston-bombing-sentencing/

Gary's favorite Newspaper - note the Sandy Hook Conspiracy headline. Found in the Brothers' apartment, well thumbed.

thunderlips11 says

That is all refugees registered by the UNHCR. In other words, that counts all those living in Jordanese and Turkish and Lebanese Refugee Camps, it is not a count of the people streaming into Europe.

Where da women and children at?

Luegenpresse!

Come on--you're better than that. You're implying that actual statistics of the demographics of refugees is less reliable than a picture of a group of males??

tatupu70 says

Come on--you're better than that. You're implying that actual statistics of the demographics of refugees is less reliable than a picture of a group of males??

YesYNot is quoting the numbers of people in refugee camps. NOT the numbers of migrants entering Europe. I think I made that clear in my response.

The number of adults migrating into Europe is overwhelmingly, stunningly male by a wide margin.

http://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.php

And half are NOT Syrians.

thunderlips11 says

YesYNot is quoting the numbers of people in refugee camps. NOT the numbers of migrants entering Europe. I think I made that clear in my response.

The number of adults migrating into Europe is overwhelmingly, stunningly male by a wide margin.

http://data.unhcr.org/mediterranean/regional.php

And half are NOT Syrians.

You did--but your only counter argument was a picture. The link you provided is much more convincing.

curious2 says

YesYNot says

There have been zero arrests of refugees for terrorism in the US since 2001.

What is your source for that assertion? I have read of three cases, and I don't presume to know of most, let alone all. Furthermore, calling ISIL/Daesh "a positive influence" is not an arrestable offense, even though it suggests an alarming risk level.

http://www.cato.org/blog/syrian-refugees-dont-pose-serious-security-threat

Fucked By Goats Ironman says

Name one person who has actually done that. Remarkable misdirection!

Calling someone's justified concern about the well-being of their family and loved-ones after the paris attacks and the history over the past years a fear-based program qualifies for me. We all know that the narrative is false that the refugees don't pose a threat. Patrick.net is full of posts and proof indicating otherwise. Now we can talk and speculate about how big of a security risk that is, but to say there is none is a blatant lie. I think careful vetting, letting in women and children only and possibly Christians (though this is of course hard to verify and can be spoofed) may be a decent middle-ground.

Here's another source that claims zero terrorist attacks by refugees admitted to the US.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/258440-we-risk-more-in-not-accepting-syrian-refugees-into-the-us

YesYNot says

Here's another source that claims zero terrorist attacks by refugees admitted to the US.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/258440-we-risk-more-in-not-accepting-syrian-refugees-into-the-us

It's not a source, it's a study of violence surrounding refugee camps.

Another Quickly, quickly, quickly, take in the refugees. No vetting, no triage, let them in fast!!!

thunderlips11 says

Another Quickly, quickly, quickly, take in the refugees. No vetting, no triage, let them in fast!!!

No one is asking to skip the vetting process or even to do things quickly.

YesYNot says

No one is asking to skip the vetting process or even to do things quickly.

The vetting process is a joke. You get official records by bribing officials, which is how most official documentation in Third World Countries are created. There is no way to tell fake from real because both are done in the Government Office by the people who make the "real" documentations, on the same stationary with the same stamps.

Yup.
The only reasonable strategy is to take in the women and children lowering the overall risk, and send the men back to fight for their country.

thunderlips11 says

The vetting process is a joke.

HydroCabron says

MMR says

because they are muslims first and indians second

Hitler says the same about Jews: they never adopt the nationality of countries they inhabit.

I'll dig up my copy of Mein Kampf later. It is in my storage locker.

Hydro, there is no difference between Islam and Hitler. They say and act the same.
Hitler started WW2, Islam started WW3. The difference..... Hitler had friends, Islam has no friends.

SoftShell says

The only reasonable strategy is to take in the women and children lowering the overall risk, and send the men back to fight for their country.

You think they won't just send in the women and children with strap-on bombs? I think there is a verse about that in the Koh-ran.

Lowers the risk...does not eliminate it...

Philistine says

You think they won't just send in the women and children with strap-on bombs? I think there is a verse about that in the Koh-ran

YesYNot says

No one is asking to skip the vetting process or even to do things quickly.

How would you even vet for such a thing? Criminals of all kinds surprise people with their actions.... "He was always a quiet young man. Never played loud music. Always polite." You cannot really know what's going on in someone's head. A radical fundamentalist doesn't have to admit to being such on his tourist visa application. Unless a person is a well-known higher-up in the terrorist organization, would we really be able to find out which "little guys" attended meetings and subscribe to fundamentalist beliefs? Do they keep attendance records when they hold their meetings in caves? Even for the moms and children... You don't know what those mommas are teaching their kids. How would you vet for that? Osama was once a little boy. The desire to remove oneself from a dangerous place to one that is safe is pretty basic need for a mother with children. That doesn't mean that they are going to check their beliefs at the border.

Philistine says

SoftShell says

The only reasonable strategy is to take in the women and children lowering the overall risk, and send the men back to fight for their country.

You think they won't just send in the women and children with strap-on bombs? I think there is a verse about that in the Koh-ran.

Muslims are preached to love their Prophet more than their children. They can be sacrificed.