patrick.net

ddshutlz says

And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death."

Name the last person sentenced to death in the US, Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Israel, etc. for Blasphemy.

In fact, when a country tries to reduce a sentence for Blasphemy from the death penalty, it's Ministers are threatened with beheadings and riots ensue.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/08/salmaan-taseer-blasphemy-pakistan-bibi

Many Muslims identify "Democracy" with permission to be Insulting of the Prophet.

sadly there are also some western countries with rarely-used anti-blasphemy laws, though only islamic countries have a death penalty for blasphemy:

http://end-blasphemy-laws.org/

@turtledove You miss the point buddy. Whether exodus, Leviticus, or whatever else, it is still in the Bible... So wait, we are supposed to listen to Jesus instead of The Lord? Or just choose what we listen to? Mmmmm sounds a lot like Islam.
Why are there so many Muslims who do no agree to bomb, murder, or rape women???
The fact that the teachings from the Bible (or the Old Testament) are not currently practiced or not even followed by Christians, does not take away the fact that those were the "rules" back then. No matter at what point in time, it still seems wrong to believe any of it, or to even believe that it was right back then.

ONly?

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/

sent

At this point, trying to convince the idiots that Islam is our enemy is just pissing into the wind. They don't think using their frontal cortexes, but using their emotional centers instead for all. The only way to appeal to a person like that is with an emotional (and probably false) argument since that's all they understand.

ddshutlz says

we are supposed to listen to Jesus instead of The Lord?

yes, actually. christians are supposed to follow jesus' example of "love thy neighbor" above the specific detailed laws of the old testament.

thus the story of jesus preventing the stoning of an adultress (which would have been required by jewish law), among other such stories.

and the fact that christians can eat pork, etc.

but you're right, islam derived many of its rules from judaism, and some of those rules are barbaric.

ddshutlz says

Why are there so many Muslims who do no agree to bomb, murder, or rape women???

because most muslims are good human beings in spite of what islam commands them to do.

ddshutlz says

it still seems wrong to believe any of it, or to even believe that it was right back then.

i agree. i don't believe any of it. but i do believe jesus was a far better role model for humanity than mohammed was. please read about mohammed.

sure, christianity is pre-enlightenment, but it is also very non-violent in its basic teachings, while islam is very violent in its basic teachings

Fair enough. Your model says that basic teachings have a lot of influence on people behavior, in particular how they relate to other people of different cultures.

Any empirical study to back up your model? I would take anytime into my home a Syrian doctor or accountant than a Mississipi redneck believing blindly in God/Country/family/guns. And make not mistake, most of the emigrating Syrians that walk for weeks with their little children hardly eating or resting towards Germany. Perhaps it's not that expensive/difficult to make better personality judgement than looking only at religion. I bet you a penny that walking for weeks with their little children hardly eating or resting is a better predictor or personality than the basic religion teachings of the country you were born in.

ddshutlz says

You miss the point buddy. Whether exodus, Leviticus, or whatever else, it is still in the Bible...

No sweet pea, I understand your point, I just think it's a bit misdirected. The Old Testament doesn't represent Christian law. It sets the "history" from which references are made in the New Testament. Christians live by the New Testament. It is only where references are made to the Old Testament from the New Testament that the Old Testament keeps its relevance in the Christian Bible. Christians do not live by the Torah. So to hold up a section of the Old Testament as proof that Christians aren't following the rules of Christianity is misdirected.

Quigley says

At this point, trying to convince the idiots that Islam is our enemy is just pissing into the wind. They don't think using their frontal cortexes, but using their emotional centers instead for all. The only way to appeal to a person like that is with an emotional (and probably false) argument since that's all they understand.

i feel a bit sorry for them, because they have this beautiful dream that all religions are essentially the same.

when the news constantly shows them that one religion is far more violent than all of the others, their dream is crushed. they just don't want to believe it. it's too upsetting. so they come up with reasons that those people are not "true" muslims, or that it's all america's fault, or that christianity is just as violent.

i don't think they can be reached with facts. facts seem like an attack on their cherished hope.

This is why I promote carpet bombing of leaflets, nonstop, ridiculing mohammed. All sorts of shit.
Eventually they will become desensitized to this.

thunderlips11 says

Many Muslims identify "Democracy" with permission to be Insulting of the Prophet.

they have this beautiful dream that all religions are essentially the same.

They have another beautiful dream that they did the Iraqis a favor by "liberating" Iraq, and that they're doing the Syrians a favor by bombing Syria and driving Syrians to become refugees (cheap labor attending Saudi-funded mosques) in Europe and America. I keep hearing Syrians say their dream is to return home, but they can't because NATO and our Saudi "allies" have destroyed Syria from the air and on land. The beautiful dream is that the Syrians will be grateful for this.

ja says

I would take anytime into my home a Syrian doctor or accountant than a Mississipi redneck believing blindly in God/Country/family/guns.

I would likewise heartily prefer to meet a Syrian doctor or accountant rather than the Duggar / Duck Dynasty dingbats, but I would not bomb either of them out of their homes and expect gratitude in exchange. The "children hardly eating or resting" are suffering on the journey, and yet you imagine those children will grow up thanking you for your generous bombing campaign, and your allies' oil money financing the ground campaign that drove them from their homes, where they lost all their favorite toys. For a lifetime they will remember what you did. I doubt they will feel the same way about it as you expect them to feel. To the contrary, with friends like you, the Syrians don't need enemies.

ja says

Perhaps it's not that expensive/difficult to make better personality judgement than looking only at religion. I bet you a penny that walking for weeks with their little children hardly eating or resting is a better predictor or personality than the basic religion teachings of the country you were born in.

sure, most of them are probably fine people, but islam is simply the opposite of western values. note that they walked for weeks directly towards the greatest money and not simply to safety.

why not help them in turkey, where they are very close to their home and can go back when the war is over? what is your goal in bringing them here?

$16,000 per person will go much further in turkey, especially eastern turkey refugee camps, than it will here. this will also help weed out the charlatans that are not refugees at all but simply joined the epic stream of people toward money as soon as they noticed that the borders were open.

Finally,
What would daddy Trumph say?
"Let's build a fucking wall around Syria and trap all those Mexicans in there. !...."

Invade/Invite.

It's amazing that Multi Kultis can back a candidate who is one of the worst warmongers of the pack, Killary Klinton, and then get all teary eyed over Refugees.

We just did another regime change in Libya, got rid of the Dictator. What happened after, what is happening now, is nearly hell on Earth.

If you really want to help, leave a relatively peaceful, orderly, and secular countries alone. Yes, they drag Wahabi funded Clerics into dungeons in the middle of the night and electro-shock their genitals. But that's better than thousands of civilians being beheaded, sold into slavery, etc., not to mention the inevitable thousands in collateral damage by all sides ("Rebel" artillery sometimes misses the target or sends shrapnel flying into the park on the other side of the street too, y'know). What's happening in Syria is years of deliberate destabilization compounded by regime change to the East in Iraq and an ever-more-Islamic Turkey to the North.

Warning: Extremely disturbing, graphic footage. Woman executed in Plaza by moderate rebel "Al Nusra" Cleric for Adultery.

turtledove says

are old Jewish law.

That splains some stuff...

As long as we are being graphic, warning you can't un-see this.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YAZgFbV6ZZ0

curious2 says

They have another beautiful dream that they did the Iraqis a favor by "liberating" Iraq, and that they're doing the Syrians a favor by bombing Syria and driving Syrians to become refugees

You seem to be confusing us liberals with people from the Bush administration.

islam is simply the opposite of western values

No there not, you insist on a cartoonish perspective on this. The number of dead are a tiny fraction of the dead produced by the US. This country kills people 24/7 decade after decade. The pathology is ubiquitous here, yet you choose to ignore it.

YesYNot says

You seem to be confusing us liberals with people from the Bush administration.

But you did the same shit in Libya, just with Aerial Bombardment and a few Green Beret/Mercenary Advisers and Forward Air Controllers.

indigenous says

No there not, you insist on a cartoonish perspective on this. The number of dead are a tiny fraction of the dead produced by the US. This country kills people 24/7 decade after decade. The pathology is ubiquitous here, yet you choose to ignore it.

I don't think anyone cares to argue this. ISIS wants us dead, why should I care to compare anything to ISIS?

Sure we killed Nazi's in the 2nd? Those assholes wanted to kill us, we had a right to self defense!

Here are some prominent refugees: http://www.unhcr-centraleurope.org/en/about-us/unhcr-people/prominent-refugees.html?start=0

Here's what we thought about letting in Jews from Germany prior to entering WWII: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/17/what-americans-thought-of-jewish-refugees-on-the-eve-of-world-war-ii/

YesYNot says

curious2 says

They have another beautiful dream that they did the Iraqis a favor by "liberating" Iraq, and that they're doing the Syrians a favor by bombing Syria and driving Syrians to become refugees

You seem to be confusing us liberals with people from the Bush administration.

Of all the Orwellian things you could call yourself, "liberal" is the most surprising. There is nothing "liberal" about waging endless war all over the world on behalf of Gulf oil and gas interests, driving refugees to serve as cheap labor for German and American corporations. If you can find a way to call the U.S. bombing of Syria and Libya, and the U.S.-backed war in Yemen, "liberal", then you are speaking a different language with different definitions. Or perhaps you are merely under the misimpression that the Bush administration included Vice President Biden and Secretaries of State Clinton and Kerry (all of whom voted to authorize the Iraq war). Or perhaps you didn't realize that W left office in 2009 but the American bombing of Libya occurred in 2011, the American bombing of Syria began in 2014, and the U.S.-backed bombing of Yemen began this year. Oh wait - I forgot - you simply lie - I should not have bothered to respond.

thunderlips11 says

But you did the same shit in Libya, just with Aerial Bombardment and a few Green Beret/Mercenary Advisers and Forward Air Controllers.

Both parties have been supporting rebels in various coup attempts. It hardly ever seems to work out well. My point was not to bash republicans so much as point out the stupidity of saying that liberals imagine that we will be received as liberators. It's hardly a liberal talking point.

curious2 says

under the misimpression that the Bush administration included Secretary of States Clinton and Kerry (both of whom voted to authorize the Iraq war)

Here are a few quotes from the Bush administration.

VICE PRES. DICK CHENEY: My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.

CHENEY: The Middle East expert, Professor Fouad Ajami, predicts that after liberation, the streets in Basra and Baghdad are sure to erupt in joy...
RUSSERT: Do you think the American people are prepared for a long, costly and bloody battle with significant American casualties?

VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: I don’t think it’s likely to unfold that way, Tim, because I really do believe we will be greeted as liberators.

WOLFOWITZ: These are Arabs, 23 million of the most educated people in the Arab world, who are going to welcome us as liberators.

FortWayne says

I don't think anyone cares to argue this

Sactly the problem...

YesYNot says

Both parties have been supporting rebels in various coup attempts. It hardly ever seems to work out well. My point was not to bash republicans so much as point out the stupidity of saying that liberals imagine that we will be received as liberators. It's hardly a liberal talking point.

Very well.

I do know the WORST thing we can do is "Put Boots on the Ground", which is exactly what Khalifa/Caliphate/ISIS supporters want more than anything.

Not that there is the least appetite among any but the most unreconstructed neocon for such a move.

thunderlips11 says

Not that there is the least appetite among any but the most unreconstructed neocon for such a move.

"Jeb Bush Joins Republican Calls for Ground Troops in Syria
***
Bush joins a number of his Republican presidential rivals, including Ben Carson, John Kasich, and Lindsey Graham, in calling for a U.S. presence on the ground, something polls indicate that a majority of Americans oppose, even after the terror attacks in Paris last week that killed at least 129."

Polls in 2013 showed Americans opposed bombing Syria, too, but polls don't matter when the neocons&neo-"liberals" get a cause in their heads.

Looks like SBH/FUCKEDBYGOATS is up to date with his prostate exam...

sure, most of them are probably fine people, but islam is simply the opposite of western values. note that they walked for weeks directly towards the greatest money and not simply to safety

Yes, they run to whether they can get back easier their middle life back. US or Germany. I wonder if even if they were wanted, they'd settle at a place like Albania.
A win-win situation would be to select Syrians based on their skills. Cheap qualified skill force.

Some Christian interpretations are worse than some Islam interpretations. It doesn't matter that original Islams beliefs are better. Nor that earlier Muslim societies were much better than early Christian societies.

Also to consider. There are already many Muslims here. Some of them scary. Bringing in mu muslim-liberal-refugees profile can only make better the cross-cultural-relationship.

What attributes of muslim culture are you most worried about? Jihad? What aren't you worried about Jews? Eye for an eye philosophy? Wealth accumulation focus, what brings on deflation?

This is perfect. A litmus test to separate the good from the evil...

anonymous says

Where are the fatwas from the Imams in the U.S. condemning the religious violence of Islam ?

ja says

What attributes of muslim culture are you most worried about? Jihad?

the fact that they are ordered to make war on unbelievers, and that they do it with great regularity, all around the world, generally against unarmed civilians.

What aren't you worried about Jews? Eye for an eye philosophy?

they are not ordered to make war against non-jews. show me the daily news reports of jews murdering random unarmed civilians and i'll start to worry.

the fact that they are ordered to make war on unbelievers, and that they do it with great regularity, all around the world, generally against unarmed civilians.

the fact that the US orders war on unbelievers, and that they do it with great regularity, all around the world, generally against unarmed civilians.

Fixed it

they are not ordered to make war against non-jews. show me the daily news reports of jews murdering random unarmed civilians and i'll start to worry.

By proxy, the Jews have lobbied to kill 250,000 non combatants in the past 15 or so years.

indigenous says

the fact that the US orders war on unbelievers, and that they do it with great regularity, all around the world, generally against unarmed civilians.

Fixed it

US isn't killing us. Jihad is.

Whatever reasons US is using is another topic, sometimes you just got to pick the side that is saving you from getting your head cut off by some Jihadist, who will do it with pleasure in the name of Islam.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

indigenous says

the fact that the US orders war on unbelievers, and that they do it with great regularity, all around the world, generally against unarmed civilians.

The fact that this thread has 4 "unwatch" is evidence that a certain segment can't stomach the truth when it goes against their ideology.

Oh man SoftShell that Putin crab avatar was hilarious, I'm going to miss it. Thanks for all the laughs mate.

SoftShell says

Two wrongs do not make a right.

But a nod to the pathology would lend a modicum of hope to curing the disease. Instead this country is zombified, Edward Bernays style towards war.