patrick.net

FortWayne says

"WIN"

"Whip Inflation Now". We didn't until 1983.

1965 1.0 1.0 1.3 1.6 1.6 1.9 1.6 1.9 1.6 1.9 1.6 1.9 1.6

Great Society spending starts along with Vietnam, both from the same impulses at home and abroad:

1968 3.6 4.0 3.9 3.9 3.9 4.2 4.5 4.5 4.5 4.7 4.7 4.7 4.2

1970 6.2 6.1 5.8 6.1 6.0 6.0 6.0 5.4 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.7

1974 9.4 10.0 10.4 10.1 10.7 10.9 11.5 10.9 11.9 12.1 12.2 12.3 11.0

1980 13.9 14.2 14.8 14.7 14.4 14.4 13.1 12.9 12.6 12.8 12.6 12.5 13.5

1981 11.8 11.4 10.5 10.0 9.8 9.6 10.8 10.8 11.0 10.1 9.6 8.9 10.3

1982 8.4 7.6 6.8 6.5 6.7 7.1 6.4 5.9 5.0 5.1 4.6 3.8 6.2

1983 3.7 3.5 3.6 3.9 3.5 2.6 2.5 2.6 2.9 2.9 3.3 3.8 3.2

FortWayne says

Reagan turned it around by letting us keep more of our money and spend it the way we want to.

Reagan turned it around by writing a rubber check for 2 trillion dollars, 1980's dollars. The godhead of the republican party was the greatest keynsian of the 20th century. How soon they forget.

FortWayne says

Carter's inflation was there because he was a tax and spend politician. He did not know how to "WIN" (if you remember those buttons). It took a visionary like Reagan to turn it around.

Carters inflation was mostly the collapse of nxon's (hint, republican) wage price controls along with energy prices going up by a factor of 4 in an extremely energy inefficient economy. I don't suppose you've ever heard of nixon's wage price controls. Whip Inflation Now (WIN) was ford (hint republican) not carter. It took a visionary like volcker to turn it around. I'm guessing you honestly don't know volcker was appointed by carter. I'm also guessing that you don't have a clue that government spending went from 24% gdp to 21% gdp under carter's tax and spend then up to 26% gdp under reagan. Don't let facts interfere with your babbling.

There is this really cool tool called google that lets you look shit up before you spout out nonsense and look like a total fool. Check it out sometime.

FortWayne says

Jimmy Carter (D) - increased welfare, increased inflation, failed the nation miserably.

He is the one President who actually spoke the truth on energy crisis.
He wanted to wean US addiction to oil.
He is also spot-on in recognizing US is an oligarchy.

www.youtube.com/embed/hDsPWmioSHg

FortWayne says

It took a visionary like Reagan to turn it around. And boy he did.

Oh yes, boy did he kill the middle class by cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Creating a middle class is always a choice, and by embracing Reaganomics and cutting taxes on the rich, we decided back in 1980 not to have a middle class within a generation or two. George H.W. Bush saw this, and correctly called it “Voodoo Economics.”

Despite what you might read in the Wall Street Journal or see on Fox News, capitalism is not an economic system that produces a middle class. In fact, if left to its own devices, capitalism tends towards vast levels of inequality and monopoly. The natural and most stable state of capitalism actually looks a lot like the Victorian England depicted in Charles Dickens’ novels.

Reality has a well-known liberal bias - Colbert.

bob2356 says

I don't suppose you've ever heard of nixon's wage price controls

Yes, Phases I and II--inflation was already hitting 3% and 4% by 1968 before Nixon was elected--up from the less than 2% in 1965. The controls were a cynical way of trying to reign in inflation to ensure Nixon's re-election, but both phases failed, building up huge inflationary pressures by the end of 1973 which exploded in 1974 when they were removed at the end of '73, hardly accounting for the still virulent inflation through the 70's and early 1980's.

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

capitalism is not an economic system that produces a middle class

It seemed to do so for the better part of the 20th century until the federal government decided to insinuate itself into every molecule of human existence from the mid-60's on. And where are the cars of socialism? I know Sweden has the Volvo, about as exciting as, well, a Volvo. What socialist country could have given us the 1957 Chrysler 300, '64 Riviera, '92 Viper or even the 400 HP Corvette of today? My friend has a photo of his mother in her 1929 Packard Dual-Cowl Pheaton her first husband bought her after they sold out their chain of food stores in Arkansas when he anticipated the Depression. They were flush with cash and the Packard was the car to be seen in during the Depression when as she often said other people were jumping out of windows. How ironic is it that Cubans are still driving the icons of American capitalism 57 years later when American capitalism brought the automobile in 50 years from the horseless carriage in 1905 to a fully fleshed out factory hotrod complete with V-8 and AC by 1955.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Well, let's go over the Republican record since the Southern Strategy was implemented.

Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. - freed slaves and made America great.

Theodore Roosevelt was a Republican. - fought against Monopolies and made America great and strong.

Exactly, you have to go before the Southern Strategy (SS), before the entire population switched parties. The Dixiecrats, the entire American South, changed into Republicans when Nixon adopted the Southern Strategy and the Northerns gained power in the Democratic Party and started a pro-civil-rights platform.

Your ancestors were all in the Democratic Party before then. Yes, your slave-owning, slave-raping, pro-segregation, anti-gay, anti-interracial marriage, conservative ancestors were all Democrats back then. And now you want to take credit for the actions of liberals in the pre-SS Republican Party? Honey, every time you attempt that you admit that liberalism is good and conservatism is evil. The anti-abolition movement, that was liberal. Teddy Roosevelt, a liberal who was strongly for environmental protection and preventing the extinction of species. He started the liberal, green national park system. He was a socialist and an environmentalist!

Neither Lincoln nor Teddy Roosevelt, nor their policies, would be tolerated in today's Republican Party. Neither would Dwight Eisenhower and his policies. Eisenhower warned that the military industrial complex and America's dependency on oil were the two greatest threats to our nation and our democracy. And he was right. Eisenhower taxed the rich at 90%. Eisenhower believed in social safety nets like Social Security and anti-poverty programs. Eisenhower was more socialist than Bernie Sanders!

So thank you for pointing out how great liberalism is regardless of what party is the liberal one, and how god-awful conservatism is regardless of which party is the conservative one.

FortWayne says

It's the Democrats who keep on trying to bring them here as much as possible and give them government assistance so subsidize their lifestyles. You probably missed that Republicans want these people out, or as usual like a typical liberal put your head in the sand to ignore reality.

That's bullshit. Mexicans -- and we're really talking about Mexicans here -- come to the U.S. legally as temp workers for big farm because Republicans insist on farm bills that make this possible. Instead of importing the workers once and turning them into U.S. citizens with permanent residence, in order to keep farm labor cheap by preventing them from having any bargaining power, Republicans make these workers temporary so they have to lose their jobs and homes or become illegal workers who cannot bargain for higher wages or fewer hours. There are 14-year-old boys picking strawberries for 18 hour long days because of Republican policies.

To keep labor cheap, more and more labor must be imported from Mexico. And the laborers must be prevented from becoming citizens or they could vote in local elections to improve their lot in life. So the federal, state, and local government must demonized these people while ensuring that massive numbers or "illegal immigrants" are always available as a cheap labor source.

So yes, this is a problem Republicans made, and they are very happy with the status quo. As a liberal, I say either make these people citizens immediately or stop this slave trade altogether and let produce prices go to $50/lb as the free market demands. Good luck in finding American-born workers picking fruit in the hot sun for less than $50/hr. That's the price even plumbers charge and they work in air conditioned houses.

Boy, you conservatives really don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasies.

FortWayne says

Jimmy Carter (D) - increased welfare, increased inflation, failed the nation miserably.

Disproved by others above, so no need to repeat.

FortWayne says

Kennedy and LBJ (D * 2) - started Vietnam war, failed America.

Yes, the single greatest mistakes of both those presidents was the result of giving into enormous pressure from conservatives. The liberals did not want the war. The left did not want the war. Only conservative "kick some commy ass" small-dick warmongers wanted the war, just like always.

P N Dr Lo R says

It seemed to do so for the better part of the 20th century until the federal government decided to insinuate itself into every molecule of human existence from the mid-60's on. And where are the cars of socialism?

Are you freaking kidding me?
FDR's financial reforms were necessary to regulate the banking system and stop speculation with other people's money.
The largest federal government program at the time of 1930s was the New Deal.
You don't get to rewrite history with your own belief system.

P N Dr Lo R says

I know Sweden has the Volvo, about as exciting as, well, a Volvo.

Got me laid many a times.

Of course, it depends on what you like. I like cruising comfortably and looking sexy. I don't care about drag racing because I'm not 17 years old. That's why I picked this car over the BMW 3 series. Plus, it's a far safer car.

www.youtube.com/embed/hEkC28QI1vc

Dan8267 says

I don't care about drag racing because I'm not 17 years old. That's why I picked this car over the BMW 3 series. Plus, it's a far safer car.

I believe you know the point I was making--the cars I mentioned are super cars that are super expensive, but apparently a significant market exists in our capitalist society that allows them to be produced in significant numbers. If you don't want one of those, then there is a car for, as Alfred P. Sloan of GM stated nearly 100 years ago, every purse and purpose, given to us, again, by the engine of capitalism in quantities far beyond the capabilites of any other economic system--this is a significant feat considering next to your home your car is your most expensive purchse. Capitalism works so well it allowed GM to begin giving away its nearly 50% market share after 1970 by building crappy cars and conceding their market to the Japanese, Germans and later South Koreans who started late in the game, but when they did they started building the best cars in the world, but significantly not North Korea or East Germany, and now GM has a well deserved less than 20% market share and no more Oldses or Pontiacs. By the way, Buick is considered a symbol of high status in Communist China today.

P N Dr Lo R says

1982 8.4 7.6 6.8 6.5 6.7 7.1 6.4 5.9 5.0 5.1 4.6 3.8 6.2

1983 3.7 3.5 3.6 3.9 3.5 2.6 2.5 2.6 2.9 2.9 3.3 3.8 3.2

Interesting how the inflation numbers came in line after Reagan finally raised taxes (which he did 11 times), as he grew the federal government.

This was Reagan's panicked reaction to the unemployment rate jumping to 11% as a result of his initial ill-considered tax cuts.

FortWayne says

It's the Democrats who keep on trying to bring them here as much as possible and give them government assistance so subsidize their lifestyles.

This statement is correct. Establishment Democrats are also FOR corporate welfare.
And that is the exact problem that Bernie is highlighting, without the divisiveness.

FortWayne says

You probably missed that Republicans want these people out, or as usual like a typical liberal put your head in the sand to ignore reality.

I think you have your head in the sand expecting Republicans to solve this problem, because they are completely unhinged.

Dan8267 says

Only conservative "kick some commy ass" small-dick warmongers wanted the war, just like always.

Ah, I miss Carlin -- but there's always Youtube.

www.youtube.com/embed/BtSv3x6lh3o

PCGyver says

If he really wanted to be a hero he would have cut spending as well as taxes

To hell with the facts, it was morning in America. LMAO.

PCGyver says

Reagan increased the national debt 130% in his first six years. Far more than Obama has percentage wise. If he really wanted to be a hero he would have cut spending as well as taxes

That's not exactly how it went. You see he fixed tax system by lowering overall taxes. Because when he came into the office a millionnaire could pay less in taxes (as in total amount) than a many earning 80,000. Reagan fixed that crony Democrat driven system of bullshit. Some of it was horse trading, but he got the job done. Can't say the same about many others that followed him. He was a rare great individual. No Bush's or Clintons and much less Obama have done as well, they all failed in comparison.

And btw Comrade, Reagan won the cold war. He took a brilliant position and won it. Obama so far has hightailed out of every situation where he is under pressure.

FortWayne says

That's not exactly how it went. You see he fixed tax system by lowering overall taxes. Because when he came into the office a millionnaire could pay less in taxes (as in total amount) than a many earning 80,000. Reagan fixed that crony Democrat driven system of bullshit

You are seriously on crack. Reagan LOWERED taxes for billionaires and RAISED taxes for lower income families. He called it "broadening" the tax base. Under the Tax reform act of 1986, the top tax rate for individuals was lowered from 50% to 28% while the bottom rate was raised from 11% to 15%. He also lowered cap gains tax rates as well.

Reagan made inequality worse, not better.

Facts on Ronald Reagan:

1. Spent enormous sums on military while cutting social programs for the poor.
2. Reduced taxes on wealthy and doubled both military budget and national debt
3. Deregulated industries and eroded environmental standards (there is something called 'EXTERNALITIES' which require regulation)
4. Deregulated savings and loans institutions which led the start of TOO BIG TO FAIL, by 1995 costs $87 billion for taxpayers
5. Helped Repeal the Fairness Doctrine leading to enormous right-wing brainwashing

i thought the military WAS a social program for the poor.

Ceffer says

i thought the military WAS a social program for the poor.

No, it's a social program for rich fat-cats who run weapons companies like Boeing and Lockheed-Martin. Cannon fodder, er, soldiers, don't get paid shit.

FortWayne says

And btw Comrade, Reagan won the cold war. He took a brilliant position and won it.

Bullshit. Reagan simply presided during the end of the cold war which was winding down years before he was even elected. It's like walking past a slot machine, putting a coin in, and getting lucky that the machine decided that it's time for a payout. That's not skill; it's luck.

Any social program that doesn't allow you to stand round on street corners smoking rock, fucking welfare moms and swigging Colt 45 while planning your next firefight to riddle rival gangs with firepower is a failure.

Social programs that impose discipline are inhumane.

FortWayne says

That's not exactly how it went. You see he fixed tax system by lowering overall taxes. Because when he came into the office a millionnaire could pay less in taxes (as in total amount) than a many earning 80,000. Reagan fixed that crony Democrat driven system of bullshit.

You want to put up some real world examples of millionaires paying less in taxes than people earning 80,000 before reagan's tax reform? I thought not. It's true because I feel it should be true.

The tax act of 1986 brought in 54.9 billion in additional revenue in 1987. It's true look it up. How is that lowering overall taxes?

Does your anal orifice ever hurt from pulling so much of your "information" from it?

Dan8267 says

That's bullshit. Mexicans -- and we're really talking about Mexicans here -- come to the U.S. legally as temp workers for big farm because Republicans insist on farm bills that make this possible.

Now lets understand this here, because you are missing a lot.

Farm workers with work visas = legal. Republicans support, unions (read Democrats) against this.
Illegals that run the border by millions, or overstay = illegal, Democrats support, Republicans want to remove.

The problem here is with your team, your team wants illegals here.

FortWayne says

Farm workers with work visas = legal. Republicans support, unions (read Democrats) against this.

Illegals that run the border by millions, or overstay = illegal, Democrats support, Republicans want to remove.

The problem here is with your team, your team wants illegals here.

Bullshit. Your Republicans, who are in the pockets of big farm, want slave labor. It's impossible to have rotating workers on farms because you can't get your slave labor to leave the country. And even if you could, you wouldn't want to because illegals keep the wages down for Mexicans with work Visas.

The solution is quite simple. Stop all work Visas. Stop the flow of slave workers into the U.S.

If workers are needed, then grant U.S. citizenship and permanent residency to the farm workers already here.

Conservatives wanted black slaves and when the Civil War prevented them from having that, conservatives wanted child slaves. When child labor laws prevented that, conservatives wanted economic slaves through "illegal alien" status. There's a big theme in conservatism, and it's slavery.

Hell, stop all work Visas and deport all the Mexican farm workers and watch farming profits immediately disappear. Watch as supermarkets scramble to import basic foodstocks from Mexico, Canada, and South America. It'll be fun.

The last thing Democrats or liberals want are millions of people living at the poverty line in this country who can't even vote. Sorry, that's a conservative wet dream, not ours.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. Your Republicans, who are in the pockets of big farm, want slave labor. It's impossible to have rotating workers on farms because you can't get your slave labor to leave the country. And even if you could, you wouldn't want to because illegals keep the wages down for Mexicans with work Visas.

Those people come and leave. It's when your liberal peeps hire illegals is when we have a problem. But it's cute how you blame Republicans for what your team supports.

Dan8267 says

The last thing Democrats or liberals want are millions of people living at the poverty line in this country who can't even vote.

Dan, you make good points about capital vs labor, which you sometimes call conservative vs "Democrats or liberals" (obviously two different and increasingly uncorrelated groups). You seem to have overlooked however a point about whom the Democrats represent. PatNet has two threads about a book on the topic, arguing that Democrats have shifted from labor to the professional class, though I think even the professional class get betrayed, e.g. 70% of doctors oppose Obamneycare. I will relate a story that I observed, and maybe try to add links later, but the connection would be only anecdotal.

Here in the SFBA, the large number of illegal aliens began to draw cottage industries that catered to them, including illegal pharmacies that sold Rx drugs imported illegally from Mexico, at or near Mexican prices. As in Mexico, customers could buy Rx drugs without an Rx, thus saving 90% compared to the American system. These pharmacies began occasionally to get reported on the evening news, though only ever in the rare occasions of somebody getting hurt or arrested.

What happened in this "liberal" Democratic city? Presto: "Healthy San Francisco." It provides nearly free comprehensive medical coverage to indigent persons, and essentially to illegal aliens whose assets are south of the border. The means test excludes nearly all legal residents of San Francisco, so as not to take paying customers away from the legal pharmacies. BTW, it is the only way to get full coverage at San Francisco General Hospital, which has the only Level 1 trauma facility in San Francisco (population more than 800,000). So, if you with your Florida Obamneycare insurance policy happen to visit SF and get hit by a car, you are at best only partially covered, subject to "balance billing" for whatever astronomical number the hospital corporation makes up, but an illegal alien on Healthy SF is covered in full, because his assets in Mexico might be too difficult to find.

Cue also the earnest programs on PBS talking about how we need to get more insurance programs for illegal aliens because they are not buying enough pills and "services", as indicated by their utilization statistics. It's presented as "liberal," as all mandatory medical insurance programs tend to be.

So yes, Democrats have found a reliable way to profit from the presence of illegal aliens. The Democrats don't represent the laborers whom illegal aliens compete with. The Democrats represent Marcus and other government workers, whose government jobs are immune from NAFTA. And, the more illegal aliens there are, and the more they they can be incentivized to claim "poverty" (whether true or false), the more "services" must be funded, enriching the providers. I had not understood this when I lived on the east coast, but I see it here. I love Mexico and have had only good experiences there, and I don't worry about how many illegal aliens might be here, but I do worry about Democrats building so-called "liberal" patronage networks to "help" them. And, seeing and hearing the construction crews doing the local remodels, I can understand the frustration of American laborers who do face that competition, and whose taxes pay for those "services".

FortWayne says

The problem here is with your team, your team wants illegals here.

FortWayne says

But it's cute how you blame Republicans for what your team supports.

To be honest - it is tiring to keep arguing "your team vs. my team". Conversations need to get above the level of a 5 year old to really understand the root causes. In my reading of Dan's posts, he has criticized the establishment Democrats as much as the batshit crazy Republicans -- for all the wreck that they have caused to this country. And I also think he is highlighting a clear distinction between a classical liberal (honoring rights of an individual, morality and justice) and an establishment liberal (yet another hypocrite like the batshit crazy conservatives).

FWayne -- some of the points you make are legit.
But you have a very skewed perception given your level of ignorance on Reagan and the batshit crazy Republicans in general. You keep arguing that Democrats are causing all the problems, while being blind to the fact that the Rep-Dem Duopoly oligarchy that is beholden to private for-profit corporations and is at the heart of problems.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle.

FortWayne says

Farm workers with work visas = legal. Republicans support, unions (read Democrats) against this.

Illegals that run the border by millions, or overstay = illegal, Democrats support, Republicans want to remove.

You are too funny for words. You are seriously in the running to displace tbp as the most hallucinogenic poster on patnet. Do you smoke lots of dope or make this stuff up while straight?

Every major corporation hires tons of illegals, they depend on illegals as part of their business plan. Farm workers? What a joke. The huge agri corporations (let's take a minute to get all misty eyed for the mythical family farmer that all those billions of dollars in agri subsidies goes to) hire millions of illegals. Who do you think butchers all the meat? Cleans all the fish? Republicans want to remove illegals about as much as the want to cut off their dicks or be faithful to their wives. There was something like 6 corporations prosecuted for hiring illegals during the 8 bush years. Average fine around 1000 dollars. Yep that certainly shows a serious republican commitment to getting tough on illegals.

FortWayne says

It's when your liberal peeps hire illegals is when we have a problem

Liberals aren't running factory farms with mass slave labor. That's conservatives. You are simply lying.

curious2 says

Dan, you make good points about capital vs labor, which you sometimes call conservative vs "Democrats or liberals" (obviously two different and increasingly uncorrelated groups). You seem to have overlooked however a point about whom the Democrats represent. PatNet has two threads about a book on the topic, arguing that Democrats have shifted from labor to the professional class, though I think even the professional class get betrayed, e.g. 70% of doctors oppose Obamneycare. I will relate a story that I observed, and maybe try to add links later, but the connection would be only anecdotal.

This is all true.

Liberals want the U.S. population to be
- equal under law, which includes all residents being citizens with the rights of citizens including the right to vote and run for office. Having large segments of the population being non-citizens with few rights is detrimental to liberty.
- the population to be educated so they can support rational and wise policies and aren't easy to manipulate. This means schooling for everyone.
- don't want economic slavery in which people are coerced by financial or legal means to live in poverty they cannot escape

Democrats used to be the party of labor, but right now there is no party of labor. However, Democrats are significantly less bad for labor than Republicans and don't support the mass economic slavery of immigrant workers that Republicans do. Democrats aren't good on the issue, but Republicans are far worse.

However, Democrats do support a path to citizenship for all the current immigrants, something that Republicans don't want because they rightfully know that the immigrants will not support Republican economic tyranny.

curious2 says

It provides nearly free comprehensive medical coverage to indigent persons, and essentially to illegal aliens whose assets are south of the border.

Turning to economic policy... If the cost of basic health care for imported workers is greater than the productivity of those imported workers, that's the free market telling you not to import workers and potentially not to produce the products those workers would produce. Maybe the real problem is that food is too cheap in our country today and we waste too much of it. Our grandparents spent a larger percentage of their income on food and a much smaller percentage on education, health care, and housing. Maybe if we made the later three things more affordable, we could afford to spend more on food production and we wouldn't even need to import labor, or if we did, we could pay that labor and provide health care for it.

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

In my reading of Dan's posts, he has criticized the establishment Democrats as much as the batshit crazy Republicans

criticism isn't a solution. Dan doesn't know how to solve problems, and he is just like every Democrat he criticizes supports all the same principles and values that are failing our nation today. If he were in child services, I'm sure well over 90% of the people would lose their children to government. And if he was in education our education would go down faster than a drunk girl on a prom night.

FortWayne says

criticism isn't a solution. Dan doesn't know how to solve problems, and he is just like every Democrat he criticizes supports all the same principles and values that are failing our nation today.

1. The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging it's existence.
2. Blaming the right policies, and yes the right people, is critical to solving problems. If you blame 9/11 on Saddam Hussein, you don't stop terrorism, rather you get ISIS.
3. I'm not a Democrat, which is why I cannot vote in the Democratic primaries in a closed state like Florida.
4. I solve problems for a living. That's what software developers do. And I'm damn good at it as demonstrated by my pay and employment history. Most software developers have huge gaps in employment. I have none and I'm in constant demand.
5. You stated on the record that gay marriage would destroy our civilization because all of civilization is based on marriage between one woman and one man. Aside from being historically inaccurate, your statement has been proven false as gay marriage has been the law of our land for about a year and no such collapse has happened. Put simply, whenever you say something is hurting our nation, you're just trying to justify your despicable bigotries. You, like all conservatives, are on the wrong side of history, and history will not be kind to you.
6. Reaganomics has been shown to have destroyed the middle class, yet you continue to use Reagan as your avatar. Oh, and Reagan armed terrorists. You are an idiot.

FortWayne says

If he were in child services, I'm sure well over 90% of the people would lose their children to government.

And I'm sure that fewer people would lose their children if I were in charge of child services. For one thing, I would prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, any and all police who used threats to take away people's children in order to rob people under asset forfeiture laws. Funny how such shit only happens in conservatives places like Texas.

FortWayne says

And if he was in education our education would go down faster than a drunk girl on a prom night.

Keep your daughter out of this.

You want to know which one of us is better on education? Answer a simple question. FortWayne, are you descendant from rodents?

We all know FortWayne is physically incapable of answering that question correctly. 'Nuff said.

Dan8267 says

2. Blaming the right policies, and yes the right people, is critical to solving problems.

Liberals are the problem, since all they are doing is repeating the mistakes of the past.

Dan8267 says

4. I solve problems for a living. That's what software developers do.

Tell me one problem you solved that benefited human kind. I doubt you can even come up with one.

Dan8267 says

5. You stated on the record that gay marriage would destroy our civilization because all of civilization is based on marriage between one woman and one man. Aside from being historically inaccurate, your statement has been proven false as gay marriage has been the law of our land for about a year and no such collapse has happened.

I said we'll be just like Roman empire and like Sodom and Gamorah, all failed. And none of it happened overnight, but it all began and progressed the same way, the way we are going. History is on my side of the argument, it is your side that got it wrong in the name of desire for sick pleasures.

Dan8267 says

Keep your daughter out of this.

What would you the 30 year old virgin know about kids.

Dan8267 says

6. Reaganomics has been shown to have destroyed the middle class, yet you continue to use Reagan as your avatar.

Reaganomics saved this nation, and defeated USSR in the cold war. You are too young to remember, and too clueless to understand, probably just bought into some stupid commie propaganda like every other 16 year old socialist who was told that world runs on rainbows and unicorns.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

6. Reaganomics has been shown to have destroyed the middle class, yet you continue to use Reagan as your avatar.

Reaganomics saved this nation, and defeated USSR in the cold war. You are too young to remember, and too clueless to understand, probably just bought into some stupid commie propaganda like every other 16 year old socialist who was told that world runs on rainbows and unicorns

You are full of shit. No such thing happened, you just imagine it happened. I very much doubt you were old enough to remember either. Not only am I old enough to remember, but I actively worked for Reagans election campaign as well as Fords. That was before the republican party went batshit crazy catering to the lunatic fringe like you. For someone who is always talking about Reagan you don't seem to know much about what Reagan actually did and didn't do.

You never did explain how reagan's tax reforms increasing tax revenue by 54 billion was an overall lowering of taxes. Is that like:
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, 1984

FortWayne says

Liberals are the problem, since all they are doing is repeating the mistakes of the past.

Closed minded divisive rhetoric, media outlets which are now solidly about ratings and co-opted message, and a population which is kept scared but comforted by simple solutions and simple people with simple answers: is the problem.

Too many of us have lost our imagination and ability to critically challenge and come to decisions ourselves. It's far easier to be told what to believe and be angry about it on the way.

The solution is, and forever will be, be between the spectrum of liberal and conservative. As long as people are willing to demonize a label, and apply that label to whomever they believe embodies it, without actually seeking any nuance or perspective on an opinion or policy, America is destined to not be great again. We will continue our "YouTube comments section" slide into mediocrity and irrelevance.

FortWayne says

I said we'll be just like Roman empire and like Sodom and Gamorah, all failed. And none of it happened overnight, but it all began and progressed the same way, the way we are going. History is on my side of the argument, it is your side that got it wrong in the name of desire for sick pleasures.

... or we could be like the Renaissance. For America to do that we would have to put a much higher value on Education and stop our idealogical attack on Science. Honestly, by population belief we are pretty well leaning in that direction anyway. The US is becoming more secular by the second.

Funny, the Protestant Reformation ended the Renaissance, and in a round about way formed the US. Also interesting that the Renaissance was essentially a fundamental embracing of humanity itself, at the expense of traditional ideals and religion. Oh well, I'm sure that's all just correlation and not causation though, right?

FortWayne says

Liberals are the problem, since all they are doing is repeating the mistakes of the past.

Name one mistake of the past liberals are repeating.

Here are some of the mistakes of the past conservatives are repeating.
- Jim Crow Laws through voter ID laws
- Marriage prohibitions. They prevented interracial marriages in the 1960s. Today they try to prevent same sex marriages.
- Reaganomics, the policies that have destroyed the middle class.
- Deregulation. It didn't work in the last century and still doesn't today.
- Importing massive numbers of low-paid workers, especially in big farm and in IT.
- Using the military to steal oil from crazy-ass Muslim nations
- Using torture, a device that only succeeds as a recruitment tool for terrorism
- Trusting the government with unlimited power to spy on the American people
- Prosecuting whistle blowers like Edward Snowden
- Allowing money to dominate politics. See Citizens United.
- Renewing the vile USA Patriot Act
- Pretending that climate change isn't real
- Ignoring the massive amounts of pollution our nation releases
- Applying the U.S. spy and criminal prosecution forces against peaceful political groups

I could go on and on.

FortWayne says

Tell me one problem you solved that benefited human kind. I doubt you can even come up with one.

I, and about ten thousand other engineers just like me, created the Internet you used today. We solved a myriad of problems about how to manage information and connect people and how to use computers in new and amazing ways.

So, what have you done?

FortWayne says

I said we'll be just like Roman empire and like Sodom and Gamorah, all failed.

Sodom and Gomorrah were fictional cities. Neither Lot nor his wife were real people. She did not turn into a pillar of salt. There were no angels.

Rome fell because it overexpanded its empire. All empires that have ever existed, except our new and young one, have failed. It is highly unlikely that the American empire will set any longevity records as its been failure due to Reagan's economic policies, the outsourcing of manufacturing and technology to other nations, and the corruption of political parties, especially the Republicans.

Your assertion that gay marriage is going to bring down our society is laughable.

FortWayne says

What would you the 30 year old virgin know about kids.

The fact that you think that I'm 30 or a virgin demonstrates how ignorant you are.

FortWayne says

Reaganomics saved this nation, and defeated USSR in the cold war.

Feel free to back that shit up with some evidence. You might as well claim that Mickey Mouse won WWII by riding a dinosaur into Germany.

FortWayne says

probably just bought into some stupid commie propaganda like every other 16 year old socialist who was told that world runs on rainbows and unicorns.

Do you even know the difference between communism and socialism? Or for that matter progressiveness and liberalism? You are the epitome of willful ignorance.

If there is one thing that FortWayne demonstrates above all else, it is that it's impossible to believe in a god and to be sane at the same time. Anyone who thinks an all-powerful sky daddy is controlling the universe, clearly does not have a grasp on reality. A god is far more ridiculous than even "rainbows and unicorns".

bob2356 says

You never did explain how reagan's tax reforms increasing tax revenue by 54 billion was an overall lowering of taxes. Is that like:
“War is peace. (George Orwell 1984)

Because at that time there were so many loopholes in the tax system that most very high earners never paid any of it. Reagans system reduced overall taxes, while increasing them by removing loopholes. It worked out to be a better system.

bob2356 says

You are full of shit. No such thing happened, you just imagine it happened. I very much doubt you were old enough to remember either. Not only am I old enough to remember, but I actively worked for Reagans election campaign as well as Fords. That was before the republican party went batshit crazy catering to the lunatic fringe like you. For someone who is always talking about Reagan you don't seem to know much about what Reagan actually did and didn't do.

For a man who claims to have worked on it, you sure seem to not know what actually happened. I highly doubt you did something more than passed out flyers on the street for $4/hour if you are that unaware.

FortWayne says

criticism isn't a solution. Dan doesn't know how to solve problems

Note the comment where it was acknowledged when you were right about the establishment Democrats. On the other hand, you are unwilling to even entertain the possibility that you are wrong. I gave you the benefit of doubt, now after reading your responses, I think that was useless.

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.” - Benjamin Franklin

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

I gave you the benefit of doubt, now after reading your responses, I think that was useless.

As others before you have discovered, Forthood/Fortwayne is a lying troll. He used to troll SFGate, then got kicked off there and came to PatNet. He claims to have gone to college, but never says where; I suspect a Catholic indoctrination center. Others and I wasted time disproving his lies about Rome and Reagan, but it never made any difference. Every time he blows another Teamster at the Reseda truck stop toilet, he feels compelled to atone by trolling online. At least his toothless gums may have provided some solace to those lonely long haul truckers.

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

Note the comment where it was acknowledged when you were right about the establishment Democrats. On the other hand, you are unwilling to even entertain the possibility that you are wrong. I gave you the benefit of doubt, now after reading your responses, I think that was useless.

It is not unwillingness to learn, it is a disagreement. I've been wrong plenty, but I'm not wrong here. Liberals usually can't handle disagreements well, hence arguments start here, and that's where their need for "safe spaces" comes from.

FortWayne says

It is not unwillingness to learn, it is a disagreement. I've been wrong plenty, but I'm not wrong here. Liberals usually can't handle disagreements well, hence arguments start here, and that's where their need for "safe spaces" comes from.

Let's test those assertions.

1) I count myself a liberal, and yet I don't Ignore anyone, and PatNet is hardly a "safe space."
2) You keep commenting obsessively about homosexuality, including commonly in the Roman Empire. I have a lifelong fascination with Rome, the eternal city, including the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire. As for homosexuality in the Roman Empire, Cicero wrote of same-sex marriage, and Nero's five marriages included two to men. Rome continued to prosper, and went on to achieve what most consider its greatest period: the era of the five good emperors, including Hadrian, who was gay exclusively throughout his life. The reign of the five good emperors ended with the death of the otherwise brilliant Marcus Aurelius, who made one mistake: unlike the others, he chose his own biological son to succeed him as Emperor. One can find a parallel to Bush 43 becoming POTUS and ignoring warnings about Iraq including from Brent Scowcroft, advisor to Bush 41. The fall of Rome resulted ultimately from Constantine imposing Christianity, for reasons anyone who's read Neitzsche can explain. Yet, you go on and on trying to be more Catholic than the Pope, attributing the fall of Rome and fictional cities from the Bible to your own self-loathing bigotry. I can handle disagreement based on ambiguous evidence, but your endless lying and trolling become tedious.

So, what is the basis of your purported but counterfactual erudition about Rome, and what was that clown college you claim to have attended?