patrick.net

Well since we're making up grades, I'll give you an A in animal husbandry.

neplusultra57 says

Private companies say that they are having a hard time attracting workers, and they are often forced to give employees on-the-spot raises to prevent them from going to competitors.

That's not a shortage, that's capitalism in a hot housing market - they are in demand! There are plenty of American workers willing to do the job if you pay them accordingly. Of course you can always import wage slaves that do it for less as long as you wave the threat of revoking their status over them. That's like saying Americans are rushing away from neuro-surgeon jobs unless you pay them a neuro-surgeon salary. A good construction worker should be worth their money.

errc says

What I personally find repulsive is the higher middle class people sweating good conscience for being accepting of illegal immigrants, while blaming poor Americans for not being able to compete with semi starving immigrants willing to do any job at any rate (too lazy) - even as the hiring corporations take the undue profits in-between.

---------------

I've got mine, fuck you!

Those Americans were given 30-40 years of chances. Fighting free trade agreements was a loser for the Democrats.

Joe Sixpack didn't care. All he wanted was a strong military and a hard crackdown on abortion - it is well-known that Mike Dickcockis killed babies when he wasn't burning the flag.

Spend several decades hating unions and abortion and voting Republican, and you get what you ask for. Like pumping quarters into a cigarette machine: you get cigarettes.

The rednecks spoke at the ballot box. They spoke in favor of abortion and guns above their own future. Now they get to compete against Vietnamese, Chinese and Mexican labor. It's the libertarian paradise they voted for.

By the way: since poor blacks are losers and it's their fault, it must be weird to be a poor white, without the excuse of skin color.

I don't know as many of them are poor, anyway. They seem to afford the time and gas/food costs of attending Trump rallies just fine, and in late model full-size pickups. Could be they're just racists, who hate immigrants every four years, on the dot.

HydroCabron says

By the way: since poor blacks are losers and it's their fault, it must be weird to be a poor white, without the excuse of skin color.

Now the excuse is they're poor because they don't deserve to do "wetback" work even if it pays well. Besides, the gummint would just tax it away to give unemployment to blacks. Better to stay home, hunt possum, draw unemployment and get yer fair share. The #orangedouchebag says he's gonna reopen the coal mines. In right-to-work states it don't pay fer shit but have you ever seen a jig down there? A man can be proud o' his work AND stay poor. Keepin' the white poor identity apart from the black poor identity is the alt-right vision Trump has. THAT's makin' Amurica great again!

mmmarvel says

You don't need a union to have an apprenticeship program. There are many, many apprenticeship programs being run through/in cooperation with community colleges. If you go to work for a plumbing company they will tell you about the program (at the community college), they will explain that as you pass those classes that along with your experience your pay will increase. In many cases they will even offer paying for the courses (only if you pass). I've seen people come in from community colleges and get hired. I've seen alot of people go to work, then while working attend classes at night to complete the apprenticeship program. I'm only aware of a few people who attended a 'pay-for-training' program and then came out and got hired.

Community college vocational programs are free in Texas? When did that happen? When I lived in Tx 15 years ago they were like 4k a year with books and fees and stuff. You are paying for your training courses just like I said. Keep making my points for me. The traditional union type apprentice program of 50 years ago where you earn a wage while working and learning is pretty uncommon. Exactly like I said.

bob2356 says

Community college vocational programs are free in Texas?

Odd, I read my post, I didn't say ANYTHING about them being free. You can go through a community college program on your own dime and graduate and then try to get a job. OR you can get a job and your employer MIGHT pay for the program (or reimburse you if you pass) while you work for them. Strange these are the same words that I used in the previous post. No, nothing is free, if you are lucky and are on the right track you MIGHT get a job where they will pay for your education while you work. Oh and there ARE trucking companies that WILL pay you while you earn (at their school - no fees to join the school) $500 a week, the course takes about 4 weeks. When you earn your CDL you drive with a trainer for about two weeks, making $90 a day, then your a driver making more than that. The ONLY catch is that you have to drive 120,000 miles for these guys (or pay something for your training). If you think you can make more money at the end of the 120,000 miles, switch to another company. This is but one of many trucking companies that do this.

http://www.roehl.jobs/cdl-truck-driving-schools

Dan8267 says

If your statement is true, then why are wages so damn low for migrant workers?

Because there are a lot of migrants with no skills. The market is there to recognize bottlenecks. Migrants are not bottlenecks.
You can produce what is needed without a desperate need for more migrants.

Dan8267 says

So, here is a case where it has been precisely measured what the value of the labor is, 40 cents on the dollar of the produce costs, and the owner is getting 75% of the worker's wealth production while the worker is getting only 25%.

I say it again: migrant workers are not rare compared to the need. The market is not there to be moral or kind, it is there to recognize REALITY. It achieves that. Reality is not independent of the number of available workers.

If you think the farmer is getting too much: try to buy lands, plant trees, wait for them to grow, treat them with pesticides, find workers to hire, manage these people, find buyers and sell your apples. If you *really* think owning a farm is a pathway to riches, why don't you do that, then lower your price to 25 cents, and tell us about it as you retire in caligulan splendor?

In your example if the consumer pays $1, then the other $0.6 is probably going to transportation and a grocery shop where a lot of people are working as cashiers, sweeping the floors, unloading trucks, reloading shelves, etc.... They are working as hard as farm workers and deserve to be paid too.

Dan8267 says

Heraclitusstudent says

The graph you showed represent several distortions that were deliberately setup to destroy the value at the bottom of the spectrum

Present your evidence for this.

The data comes from The Economics Policy Institute, which has a damn good reputation for accuracy, honesty, and non-partisanship.

I never said the graph is incorrect. I commented on what it shows. It shows the impact of globalization.
I'm pretty sure no one in the Economics Policy Institute thinks capitalism is not working. You should take a hint from that.

Dan8267 says

Heraclitusstudent says

so workers are all alike and replaceable

All the reasons you give, especially this one, are the direct consequences of capitalism, and are not inevitable in other economic systems.

They are not inevitable in capitalism. In particular for this argument: smart workers will refuse to do jobs in which they are indistinguishable from their co-workers. They will do something that set them apart as special and better. Lots of people are doing that in capitalism. There are other coffee shops than starbucks and other restaurants than McDonald.

mmmarvel says

Oh and there ARE trucking companies that WILL pay you while you earn (at their school - no fees to join the school) $500 a week, the course takes about 4 weeks. When you earn your CDL you drive with a trainer for about two weeks, making $90 a day, then your a driver making more than that. The ONLY catch is that you have to drive 120,000 miles for these guys (or pay something for your training). If you think you can make more money at the end of the 120,000 miles, switch to another company. This is but one of many trucking companies that do this.

http://www.roehl.jobs/cdl-truck-driving-schools

I see more and more black, Hispanic and Indian truck drivers these days. 50k to start after training ain't a pot o' gold, but one wonders why it wouldn't be attractive to young single white males.

Job openings and hires trend in construction demonstrates the skills divide

Forget just talking about construction

5,900,000 job openings in spread out in every sector in the U.S.

https://loganmohtashami.com/2016/09/07/5900000-job-openings/

So, job openings in construction have been rising steadily for six years, with wages probably rising somewhat commensurately, but the rate of hiring has been flat at best. I guess you could legitimately explain that as a lack of "skilled" workers. How would you quantify that as the disparity as opposed to a simple lack of interest in the jobs themselves?

neplusultra57 says

How would you quantify that as the disparity as opposed to a simple lack of interest in the jobs themselves?

Mexicans left after the housing bust and now coming into America are Chinese and Indians ...

http://www.housingwire.com/blogs/1-rewired/post/37817-illegal-immigrants-arent-taking-your-houses-or-your-jobs

$26.25 pay for the work, cities like Phoenix showing near 10% wage growth

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AHECONS

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=6X8C

http://www.housingwire.com/blogs/1-rewired/post/37817-illegal-immigrants-arent-taking-your-houses-or-your-jobs

"What about those construction jobs they left behind? No one is taking them. Job openings for construction jobs are high today with hours worked at their highest ever...Starting to see a correlation? When the housing bubble burst, the immigrants left. Now, however, although the housing market and overall economy are starting to improve again, they have yet to come back."

Thanks, Logan.

neplusultra57 says

Now the excuse is they're poor because they don't deserve to do "wetback" work even if it pays well

Definitely have observed this over last 14 years plus in Bricktucky, NJ

MMR says

neplusultra57 says

Now the excuse is they're poor because they don't deserve to do "wetback" work even if it pays well

Definitely have observed this over last 14 years plus in Bricktucky, NJ

I get it. It's a tough nut for lots of people who focus their pride on relative standard of living. The problem is you can't eat relative performance whether you're a money manager or an auto parts store employee. Class envy and class resentment slide into cultural animosity when economies struggle. When people refuse jobs for those reasons it means another swath of the population is readying itself for a life of welfare.

We obviously need more H-1B visas.

neplusultra57 says

I see more and more black, Hispanic and Indian truck drivers these days. 50k to start after training ain't a pot o' gold, but one wonders why it wouldn't be attractive to young single white males.

Uh, read the title of this posting - basically they are too lazy and too spoiled. They would have to work long hours and long weeks. There are weeks away from home. And 'I-just-don't-want-to' do that job/that kind of work. I've never seen so many lazy, spoiled young people in my life.

neplusultra57 says

So, job openings in construction have been rising steadily for six years, with wages probably rising somewhat commensurately, but the rate of hiring has been flat at best. I guess you could legitimately explain that as a lack of "skilled" workers. How would you quantify that as the disparity as opposed to a simple lack of interest in the jobs themselves?

Bottom line, too many people (especially white race) haven't held any kind of a job which leads to the lack of developing a work ethic. The more jobs you do, the more jobs you are qualified for. The more you realize that there are other jobs (better jobs that pay more) and you learn how to get them. You learn that certain things (education, certifications, etc) are required and you get them. If you haven't had the low wage, low skill jobs then the first time someone asks you if you have a forklift certificate you spout back that you don't need no damn certificate, you can drive better than someone who has one, blah, blah, blah. Doesn't matter that there is/are insurance requirements/incentives for employing people who have certifications, no, you're just being unfair. Blah, blah, blah, bottom line, it IS (appears to be) jobs that white folk don't want. The thing that isn't said is that the jobs go begging because Americans are too lazy and too spoiled. But those same Americans will tell you how they are worth more than what they are making (are offered) and that they SHOULD only work certain hours on certain days and they shouldn't be dinged if they are constantly on their cell phones, blah, blah, blah.