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Mortgage Backed Securities


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2006 Oct 9, 10:26am   18,450 views  253 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

Ultimately, most of the money that financed the bubble is owed to the owners of mortgage-backed securities. What are these securities? Who owns them? Do these investors realize the risk?

It would be very interesting to see graphs of mortgage-backed bonds trading. Does anyone know the ticker symbols for these bonds and a free way to look up the graphs?

Patrick

#housing

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200   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:07am  

Anyone here comfortable with changing the Sales tax such that you are expected to pay 8.25% of what the highest price anyone has or will have paid for equivalent items?

I am quite comfortable with this "mark-to-market" scheme. It reminds me of 1256 contracts. ;)

201   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:11am  

LILLL,

Well I'm bringing my sub-woofer ANYWAY! My buddy runs a "pit-bull farm" out in Moreno Valley and he said he'll bring by a "playmate" so he won't be lonely. The LL did say that pit bulls in the jacuzzi was cool right?

202   skibum   2006 Oct 11, 5:17am  

Doug H,
Thanks for the rant. Well put - we as stupid Americans really lose perspective sometimes. Both examples will be people who chase the market down as prices continue to crap out.

203   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 5:18am  

DinOR,

I know! Those unattractive overweight realtors can be maid service for these empty vacation properties and McFlippin properties.

The only problem is reference - let's say I was a vacation home owner choosing between a fresh from the border Latina and a former realtor, who would I trust more? Who do I expect to have a good work ethic and have the beds made just so? Who won't steal the $100 I left on the kitchen table?

204   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:19am  

In the aviation industry we used to refer to helicopters as “crash debris in search of its future accident site.”

LOL Are they really that dangerous? Are turbine copters safer? How about those with counter-rotating blades?

205   skibum   2006 Oct 11, 5:20am  

LiLLL,

Thanks for the pick-me-up story. What's funny is how the neighbors are mad at YOU for selling - misdirected anger. They should be pissed at the guy who bought it from you and turned around and rented it. Isn't he the guy you mentioned before as needing to move back to the midwest?

206   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:33am  

I know I cannot possibly fly a helicopter ever. I heard it is more like riding a unicycle. Did computer-assisted artificial stability help at all?

207   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:34am  

Robert Cote'

Nobody liked a "hot seat" turn-around more than me. Helicopters work reasonably well (until you shut them down). Then they ooze hydraulic fluid, short out the DC Bus and become "hangar queens" in short order.

208   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:37am  

I propose an anti-gravity-based lift system with no moving parts. This should improve reliability. :)

209   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:40am  

Peter P,

Most modern rotary wing aircrap (I mean aircraft) have "inner loop/outer loop" inputs to AFCS (Automatic Flight Control Surfaces). The outer loop is for minor corrections to X,Y and Z axis. The inner loop is for MAJOR corrections (as in evasive man. etc.). One of the most difficult things to do w/ a chopper is to maintain a steady hover. Applying the inner/outer concept eliminated a lot of "snakes in the cockpit".

210   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 5:45am  

M. Cote,

Yeah, but planes don't have the maneveurability of helicopters and until they do, we're stuck with helicopters.

I do have one question - why are news helicopters manned? Couldn't they just get a remote control chopper/blimp into the sky and control everything remotely?

211   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 5:45am  

If airplanes are sushi then helicopters are McDonald’s McFugu with all that implies.

LOL particle-board blowfish?

212   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 5:46am  

Or a hot air balloon, that's slightly less flammable and considerably cheaper.

213   FRIFY   2006 Oct 11, 5:54am  

RC: Prop 13 applies equally to everyone regardless of age or denomination.

For example, say that you're a 25 year old who bought a house in 1970, you have the same tax advantages as a 65 year old.

Oh wait.

214   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 5:54am  

Any time I'm watching a movie or TV show it always amazes me when our hero exits a still whirling chopper walking tall and defiant! Helicopters (particularly rotor blades) are much more sensitive to crosswinds than fixed wing A/C. I was an "LSE" (Landing Signalman "Enlisted") in the Navy and I've seen crosswinds dip rotor blades down to about 4' off the deck. On a guy about 5' 10" that would decapitate you at the arm pits.

Anytime I entered or left the "rotor arc" I kept as low to the ground as possible! Tunnel strikes are also common (although more for rotor blades being "out of sync") than crosswinds but that can ruin your whole day too.

*Not in the NATOPS (Naval Aviation Training and Operational Proceedures) Manual but if you are near or within the rotor arc and the damn thing goes into "ground resonance" (meaning Robert's garage sale is coming apart) run TO not FROM the aircraft! Centrifugal force has a nasty tendency to throw things out, not in! Just in case you ever find yourself in that position.

215   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 5:55am  

The one thing airships had going for them was size; as I recall, the Hindenburg even had a grand piano in one of its salons for a time. (Or is this a case of simply not putting as many people on board? Anyone know the available square footage on the H versus a 747?)

What I'm waiting for is good software control and miniaturized control surfaces. A couple years ago I was sitting in a survey class on MEMS devices, and the lecturer mentioned a drone using only MEMS devices to alter the airflow (as in, no conventional moving control surfaces) and pulling insane turns. (6-12' turning radius at 60-80mph was the example given.)

216   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:01am  

The Solution:

www.moller.com/skycar/

217   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:09am  

Oh and my other favorite Hollywood myth.

Aircraft in flight build up static electricity! Lots. I've read studies where up to 10,000 volts are possible. Any time a helo is being used for "Vert-Rep" (Vertical Replenishment) a GROUNDING CABLE must be used! Just a "J-Hook" with an alligator clip attached snugly to a "pad-eye" on the steel/concrete deck will do. This discharges the static charge to "ground". Once discharged you can go on about your business unless of course you lose contact and need to re-establish ground. Especially true of "HIFR" (Helicopter In Flight Re-fueling) ya think?

True, the amperage is low but it will still definitely wake you up! One time we had a tie-down chain and "someone" had to get it off a hovering H-46. (I guess I was cheaper to Uncle Sam than an H-46!) Not fun, and when your muscles contract it's hard to let go.

218   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 6:12am  

www.moller.com/skycar/

Yep. It is very close to UC Davis. I have heard about it before.

How do we avoid mid-air collision with thousands of them in the air? I think it can replace small GA planes though.

219   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:13am  

During "Night Ops" you'll see a small arc like a little lightening bolt jump from the helo to the deck. Normally you won't notice w/ a fighter jet b/c when the tailhook hits it leaves a trail of sparks and you're running for your life anyway.

220   Randy H   2006 Oct 11, 6:32am  

RC,

Nobody gives a flying fling at a rolling doughnut that I’m posting from a shed in Camarillo. The poor smuck that bough my 10yr futures last night at the closing price probably wants to send me a letter bomb but freakin’ CBOE or NYC had nothing to do with my coup but they’ll still take the credit for being necessary to complete my market transactions.

It will be a very long time yet until these specific types of high-value industries become physically decentralizable. Sure, the technical market mechanisms can and largely already are decentralized. But the nexus of the high finance industry is people and relationships. The paradox has been that as more communications technology has been developed, even more reliance has been placed upon physically proximate relationships.

Even this too may pass with time. But much more time than you are imagining. Perhaps, someday, everyone will jack into their "Second Life 2060" virtual reality, and conduct meaningful, binding relationships and pacts of trust without needing to actually sit at the same table in the same room of the same building.

I'm not going to hold my breath. I still have to fly to Chicago, San Antonio, and probably soon Atlanta every time I need to advance or close a deal in telecom with the corporate guys. Why do they need to see me? Well. They think they do, therefore they do, and therefore I go.

221   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 6:33am  

How do we avoid mid-air collision with thousands of them in the air?

You wait a week, then fly over the wreckage.

RC, SFGuy:
RC's comments on the Moynihan Myth notwithstanding, I don't see why the idea SFGuy has in mind wouldn't work. The only real problem you'd run into is transportation; being able to get raw materials, finished goods, people, what have you, from place to place in a reasonable time. I think it's easily doable if properly planned, and may happen anyway if unplanned, just with a great deal more growing pains.

222   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:40am  

J Galt,

Fun stuff! That's why I always cringe when H'Wood shows some macho dude grabbing a hoisting cable and connecting it an oil derrick leaving the chopper like a fly tied to a hair! Besides, the crew chief has a "guillotine" activated by a 22 cal. round that will sever that cable if he even "thinks" it's "fouled" (tangled up). Yeah, they thought of that. Sheesh.

223   requiem   2006 Oct 11, 6:40am  

I still have to fly to Chicago, San Antonio, and probably soon Atlanta every time I need to advance or close a deal in telecom with the corporate guys. Why do they need to see me? Well. They think they do, therefore they do, and therefore I go.

The generational parts of this will change. The only reason I can see for a face-to-face is when you quietly want to hammer out some details, or initially to get a feel for another person. Teams I've worked with just throw up a telecon and secure IRC server and everything's just peachy.

224   skibum   2006 Oct 11, 6:51am  

@TimeSaver,

Cupertino Address! Cupertino Schools! Lowest priced home in the entire city of Cupertino at the time of listing! 2 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom, Single Story, Approximately 814 SF, Fireplace in Living Room. This is a "fixer upper" Needs cosmetic work. Probate sale...

Yeah baby! talk about "cosmetic work!" That's like saying Joan Rivers has had "cosmetic work."

225   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:52am  

Robert Cote'

When I was a boot camp I found $600 in an envelope that dated back to 1967 carefully hidden in a NATOPS manual!

(I've read every one ever since!)

I'd heard that some of the "virtual providers" (Island, BRUT, Archipeligo etc.) were having problems? Order flow, etc? I'd also heard BRUT got stung w/ a nasty fine. Oh and these "OATS" infractions have just gotta stop! I ALSO read the NASD Monthly Enforcement Actions the 1st of every month and this has gotten out of hand! (None of you guys are NASD Regulators are you?)

226   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 6:57am  

TimeSaver,

Oh for the days of the "America's Overpriced RE Blog"!

That may actually have taken the cake! Funny how the recycling containers "dwarf" the freakin house! In fact just calling their sordid little event an "Open House" is nothing short of comical. Good on ya!

227   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 7:04am  

Transportation will continue to be a problem until we achieve teleportation.

Teleportation has severe philosophical issues.

228   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 7:22am  

I’m confident we’ll find a way around its philosophical ones too!

Oh really? The issue will be as fundamental as existence itself.

Is teleportation about the destruction and reconstruction of objects? Will the soul be "transported" safely? Many issues.

229   Randy H   2006 Oct 11, 7:33am  

Is teleportation about the destruction and reconstruction of objects? Will the soul be “transported” safely? Many issues.

I sold my soul forward on the futures market years ago, so I'll volunteer to give it a try. Just keep house flies out of the portapod chamber.

By the way, didn't someone like Michio Kaku calculate that the amount of computing energy alone required to reassemble the human brain at a quantum level would be about equal to the total output of energy from a small galaxy? Maybe it was just a sun. I forget.

I'll worry about this in about 150,000 more years of progressive technological advancement.

230   Peter P   2006 Oct 11, 7:42am  

Philosophical issues aside, teleportation may put UPS and FedEx out of business.

231   Doug H   2006 Oct 11, 7:48am  

Plane had parachute.....it's a new safety feature being installed to allow pilots to break a stall if they aren't able to using piloting skills....not a bad thing and a pretty good example of one guy finding a cheap solution to a big problem. They don't work well when you fly into a building though......

The pilot had his ticket for just a few months and that qualifies him as the most dangerous person in the air. You get your license and think you can fly, do something stupid, and die.

In NYC, you screw up, crash, and they pick up the pieces. In the PacNW, you crash, you die, and they don't find the pieces because the animals eat them. Hey, DinOR, remember that idiot who went camping, got up to take a piss in the middle of the night, fell off a cliff, and is suing the Feds for not having warning signs in the wilderness?

Don't get me started on flying stories because I'll never shutup.

232   HARM   2006 Oct 11, 7:54am  

fyi: Turns out the pilot was probably Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle. Personally, my money was on Mark Foley (suicide/blaze-of-glory thing), so I lose.

Btw, there's now a pro-Casey poster named "astrid-hater".

233   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 7:58am  

Doug H,

You don't want to get me started either! I'm just now learning of the details so I don't want to go off but it doesn't surprise me it's a rookie pilot. Obviously the standards applied by the FAA to pilot an aircraft need to be reviewed.

BUT the FAA serves everyone up as the sacrificial lamb b/c they are NEVER wrong! It's always the air traffic guy, the pilot, the mechanic that's at fault. Never their policies and proceedures.

234   DinOR   2006 Oct 11, 7:59am  

astrid,

You may now do your little "victory dance" around your chair!

235   OO   2006 Oct 11, 8:18am  

Back to the topic, is there any official source documenting who the bagholders are for MBS? I heard it was China, but I highly doubt the claim, since I just discovered that about 10% of my PIMCO foreign bond fund (unhedged) seems to be in FNMA, FHLC and some MBS stuff.

I certainly hope that it is not the Americans who are holding this stinking bag, we already have a lot to hold at this point.

236   FormerAptBroker   2006 Oct 11, 8:22am  

Robert Cote Says:

> The failure to understand Prop 13 is surely a
> growth industry.

Most people like me that think Prop. 13 is unfair understand it (I have read every word many times).

> Anyone here have a problem with State limits
> on maximum income tax rates or sales taxes?

I would like to not only limit income taxes and sales taxes I would like to “eliminate” them (and scale back the government so all it does is defend our borders and run our courts).

> Prop 13 applies equally to everyone regardless
> of age or denomination.

No it does not. Some people pay 20 times more year after year in property taxes for the same city services…

> Anyone here comfortable with changing the Sales tax
> such that you are expected to pay 8.25% of what the
> highest price anyone has or will have paid for equivalent
> items?

I don’t think many people would complain if the one time “transfer tax” was based on the sale price as long as everyone paid the same taxes going forward. Would it be fair if I bought a Honda 10 years ago and was paying $100 a year (increasing by 2% a year) to register it with the DMV and someone who just moves to the state and buys a similar 10 year old Honda has to pay $2,000 a year (increasing by 2% a year) to register it with the DMV and drive on the same roads?

237   HARM   2006 Oct 11, 8:46am  

@Jon,

Rent control --like so many other attempts by government to mitigate risk and/or inject "fairness" into the marketplace for certain select groups-- ends up creating at least a couple of huge moral hazards that are worse than the "problem" it was trying to solve (poor people being priced out of their existing rentals). I'd recommend re-reading Peter P's & FAB's takes on the matter, but to summarize:

1. It dis-incentivizes HBs & RE investors from building/funding new rental construction (because rent hikes cannot even keep pace with inflation, much less demographic changes in the marketplace, gentrification, etc.). Up until recently, Santa Monica had among the toughest iron-clad rent control laws in the country, and as a result, basically no new rental stock was built in nearly 30 years. And guess what happens when supply is strangled for over a generation?

2. Over time, artificial rent caps creates huge imbalances (see FAB's examples) where older renters pay almost zilch thanks to inflation, while new renters must pay market rate. Many old-timers will also arbitrage their indirect rent subsidy in illegal (but almost impossible to police) ways, such as informally sub-letting their rent controlled apartments. This is basically creating a black market, where actual rents eventually rise to the market rate anyhow.

You can apply the same government mis-pricing arguments against minimum wage, argricultural subsidies, Prop. 13, etc. Accurately pricing commodities or labor better than the free market can does not seem to be government's strong suit.

238   astrid   2006 Oct 11, 8:48am  

There's no need for rent control. If you want stability, pay a premium and sign a really really long lease.

HARM and DinOR,

I saw that. I didn't understand why I got singled out, since the comment had nothing to do with anything I said.

It must be my sparkling online personality.

239   Randy H   2006 Oct 11, 8:53am  

The practical reason income taxation cannot likely ever be eliminated is Constitutional. I have been a pure use/sale tax advocate for many years. The unfortunate practical truth, however, is that any elimination or even dramatic flattening or reduction of income taxation will only result in states co-opting Federal taxation with more State taxation. And the Federal gov't cannot legally prevent this without an amendment to the US Constitution, which, by the way, 3/4 of States have to ratify, and very few of those by direct popular vote. So it ain't gonna happen, as much as it would be the right answer. Oh, and the Federal gov't will have lost any "encouragement power" they might have had once they no longer have Federal tax revenues to dribble back to the states in return for their obedience. So again, it won't happen.

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