patrick.net

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

It's the other way round. Not having enough people go into STEM is what created the need for H1B visas in the first place.

That's complete bullshit. Major companies like IBM spent three decades laying off American workers and hiring Indian and Chinese workers always begging for more H1B Visas and using outsourcing while slashing the jobs of Americans like crazy. I know a lot of former IBMers. A hell of a lot.

Just look at the results by looking at Silicon Valley. If it was not for skilled immigrants, we would not still be numero uno in technology.
China and India, both are turning out more STEM's than we are. It's just a matter of time before they overtake us.
Just imagine if we had 11 million skilled workers, instead of 11 million unskilled illegal workers. We would be 50 years ahead.

MMR says

theoakman says

My very best asian students have had the most impressive resumes and were bigger standouts than anyone in several area

So how did these Asian applicants resumes differ from one another? That would be the million dollar question. Also, how many of these bulletproof applications are coming from the exact school? Ivy League can't conceivably take them all...

Most of these applicants are awesome, but do they have that it factor that makes them too good to pass up...I believe the word fungible comes to mind here...these stellar candidates, for one reason are fungible when some Kennedy is too good to pass up.

I distinctly remember reading an article last year quoting some Princeton review people saying essentially that a lot of Asian applicants appear homogenous; In fact, I posted it here a few times as well

I've had way too many. My worst example was a girl who came over from China her junior year. She had already obtained two publications in Organic Chemistry Journals performing research at the local university that I set her up with. She also completed every AP test outside of the foreign languages by Junior year with all 5s. 800 on every SAT she took. Placed top of the state in NJ Science League two years a row in Physics 1 and Physics C. The best school she got into was University of Michigan.

Another student had developed a web programming business and already had 4 employees under him by age 16. He got into Carnegie Melon. Rejected by everyone else.

One student I worked with is now at Harvard...but he qualified and represented the US in the Physics Olympiad Twice. He also qualified for the Bio Olympiad as a sophomore. He completed Calc BC and Physics C by 8th grade. He also won god knows how many math competitions. He had a legitimate claim to best student in the country.

I have four former students right now in Princeton. One was state champion in golf. Another was a world class clarinet player. One established herself as the top Physics student in the state. Another is a state champion track runner.

The reality is I should have had 25. And you can't tell me that they can't accept them all when in fact....that's exactly what they do to the school 3 blocks down the street from me. There's nothing the kids who go to the private school near me do to standout other than have their parents toss around 200k for their high school education...which is a complete joke in comparison to a public school education in NJ.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

It's India and China who have the brain drain when their skilled workers come to the West to work.

Honey, it's mostly outsourcing today, and those natives send their skills back to their home countries.

The most prestigious IT universities in the world aren't in America. They are in India. And both India and China are turning out far more STEM professionals than America.

Darling, that's the point i'm trying to make. If we are to prosper as a nation, we need the brains we are not creating anymore. There are lots of brains floating around in this world. Lets offer them what we have, and what everyone wants......Yankee dollars. Lets steal the brains.

Rin says

I'd say ... don't bother; take classes at Harvard's night time extension program and the Univ of London's online program and get some credentials, which will make that person, a viable candidate for either management consulting or financial services careers later, when one's resume is posted against those from the SUNYs and Conn State, who'll never get past the gatekeepers which hate public uni graduates.

Your way is easier and probably more effective, but I'd argue that it doesn't do much to overcome stereotypes

Most of the California Mr. Basketball of the past 25 years have played successfully in the NBA or Europe and most have net worths between 3 and 70 million with most being well above 20 million

theoakman says

There's nothing the kids who go to the private school near me do to standout other than have their parents toss around 200k for their high school education...which is a complete joke in comparison to a public school education in NJ.

Oakman, when I'd taken those two classes at Harvard College during the daytime, the only thing I did was to do the work on time. I wasn't killing myself but I got two straight A's.

My senior partner, when he was at the Univ of London LLM program, he'd arrived in class with every "First Class/A" student from Singapore/Hong Kong, already prepped and ready to be examined. In other words, he realized that he was completely outclassed. By the time the finals had came around, all he could hope for was a 'B'. The standard for the 'First/A' was well above his level of subject mastery.

theoakman says

One was state champion in golf. Another was a world class clarinet player. One established herself as the top Physics student in the state. Another is a state champion track runner.

Not stereotypical in the least...not like there aren't any asians in say, Southern California doing the exact same thing or anything like that whatsoever or any other major city in the US for that matter

MMR says

Most of the California Mr. Basketball of the past 25 years have played successfully in the NBA or Europe and most have net worths between 3 and 70 million with most being well above 20 million

If you can play NCAA to NBA level of b-ball, then schooling is a moot point. Remember, Shaq went back for a PhD, after he made his millions.

Rin says

you can play NCAA to NBA level of b-ball, then schooling is a moot point. Remember, Shaq went back for a PhD, after he made his millions.

Fair enough

Rin says

Remember, Shaq went back for a PhD, after he made his millions.

A PhD in what? Can't be anything brainy.

theoakman says

And you can't tell me that they can't accept them all when in fact....that's exactly what they do to the school 3 blocks down the street from me. There's nothing the kids who go to the private school near me do to standout other than have their parents toss around 200k

Is that the lawrenceville school or hun school? So what you are saying then is that the students at latter two schools are far less qualified but they are able to gain admission by having better contacts?

Proof that merit matters, but only up to a point.

For what it's worth I'm Indian and had 1/20 of resources these wunderkinds have and still made it to Emory university when my parents made slightly more money than the migrant farm workers daughter. From Gallup high school in Gallup, New Mexico. Had ZERO AP courses but did the best I could with what I got

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallup_High_School

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallup,_New_Mexico

Color me unimpressed

Strategist says

Rin says

Remember, Shaq went back for a PhD, after he made his millions.

A PhD in what? Can't be anything brainy.

Correct it was an Ed.D I believe

MMR says

Strategist says

Rin says

Remember, Shaq went back for a PhD, after he made his millions.

A PhD in what? Can't be anything brainy.

Correct it was an Ed.D I believe

What's more important is that Shaq had no loans to pay back.

MMR says

theoakman says

And you can't tell me that they can't accept them all when in fact....that's exactly what they do to the school 3 blocks down the street from me. There's nothing the kids who go to the private school near me do to standout other than have their parents toss around 200k

Is that the lawrenceville school or hun school? So what you are saying then is that the students at latter two schools are far less qualified but they are able to gain admission by having better contacts?

Proof that merit matters, but only up to a point.

For what it's worth I'm Indian and had 1/20 of resources these wunderkinds have and still made it to Emory university when my parents made slightly more money than the migrant farm workers daughter. From Gallup high school in Gallup, New Mexico. Had ZERO AP courses but did the best I could with what I got

Well I'm sure that some will be great but that most of the cohort will be very good worker bees

MMR says

For what it's worth I'm Indian and had 1/20 of resources these wunderkinds have and still made it to Emory university when my parents made slightly more money than the migrant farm workers daughter. From Gallup high school in Gallup, New Mexico. Had ZERO AP courses but did the best I could with what I got

MMR, if you had me as an uncle ... using a parallel universe metaphor, I would have gotten you the subject material for every single course you'd have to take at the Univ of London. I'd break up the material, making you master each section and then, supplement those units with online classes, in adjacent areas, allowing you to consolidate the information to the point, where outside of graduate level mathematics, you'd be among the best students in econometrics for the undergraduate club.

Not only will you get a 70% at UoL, but you'll be among the handful, you know, the Malaysian, Russian, Hong Kong geniuses, who will actually score between 80% to 95% on the final.

End result, you'll finish with a First Class Honours, probably get accepted into MS programs at Columbia, Carnegie-Mellon, U Chicago, etc, and you wouldn't have had to behave like the trained monkeys in American schools.

It's too bad that we live in our current reality.

tovarichpeter says

83% of U.S. top science students are children of immigrants

Very interesting subject. I don't know why Tovobot got 2 dislikes, but i gave him a like.

Strategist says

Just imagine if we had 11 million skilled workers, instead of 11 million unskilled illegal workers. We would be 50 years ahead.

If they are so damn skilled, then why are they paid considerably less than the American workers they replaced?

People should be paid according to what they produce. If these imported workers are more productive then the American workers they replaced, then they should be paid more.

He'd have an aids infested canadian passport...
Rin says

MMR, if you had me as an uncle ...

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Just imagine if we had 11 million skilled workers, instead of 11 million unskilled illegal workers. We would be 50 years ahead.

If they are so damn skilled, then why are they paid considerably less than the American workers they replaced?

Why do we have strawberry pickers willing to work for less than Americans? They are still willing to work for less, because it's a heck of a lot more than what they could earn in their own country. The economics are no different for skilled workers.
Immigrants have always come to the melting pot because of better opportunities, and they have always brought down wages, including your ancestors.
You are just sore because you can't compete.

Macropodia the Troll says

He'd have an aids infested canadian passport...

Yup, that's right, instead of reading the Univ of London stuff, you know, content you know nothing about, you pick up from your usual trolling BS.

This conversation is between me and MMR. You on the other hand, are a piece of garbage.

So what's your academic advise for MMR? That's right, you have none because you're a stupid P.O.S.

Fuck you and I pray for your early death. Hopefully, you'll beat me to it.

See...that's whereMMR says

Is that the lawrenceville school or hun school? So what you are saying then is that the students at latter two schools are far less qualified but they are able to gain admission by having better contacts?

Proof that merit matters, but only up to a point.

For what it's worth I'm Indian and had 1/20 of resources these wunderkinds have and still made it to Emory university when my parents made slightly more money than the migrant farm workers daughter. From Gallup high school in Gallup, New Mexico. Had ZERO AP courses but did the best I could with what I got

Well I'm sure that some will be great but that most of the cohort will be very good worker bees

See...that's the problem. If you stick any of my best students in New Mexico, they get in. In this school that they are at...they don't when the top 20 students in the school average SAT scores in each subject is 799. My students are discriminated against because they are Asian and because they come from a public school that has an insane pool of talent. You can even take them out of their current school and stick them somewhere else in NJ and they'll get in anywhere they want.

I wouldn't classify these kids as worker bees. They are leaders. One of them, by sophomore year, built a car that traveled 1 mile on 8 food calories. He got a meeting with the board of directors of Tesla by age 19. Harvard and MIT missed out on him.

theoakman says

They are leaders. One of them, by sophomore year, built a car that traveled 1 mile on 8 food calories. He got a meeting with the board of directors of Tesla by age 19. Harvard and MIT missed out on him.

Oakman, why are you still encouraging your students in applying to these colleges, the regular way?

Why not the part-time Harvard extension classes or the Univ of London online, along with others?

If your kids have the talent, all they need is a bit of "brand name" to get past the recruiters at consulting and financial firms who hate to see ... State Univ from their applicants.

Ironman says

You really want it that way? Based on the way you spend over half the day on Patnet instead of working, your boss needs to seriously decrease your salary for lack of productivity.

The CEO of the company I work for, who's office is right next to mine, is quite pleased with my work and accomplishments. I produce more in a day than you have in a lifetime.

Dan8267 says

Ironman says

You really want it that way? Based on the way you spend over half the day on Patnet instead of working, your boss needs to seriously decrease your salary for lack of productivity.

The CEO of the company I work for, who's office is right next to mine, is quite pleased with my work and accomplishments. I produce more in a day than you have in a lifetime.

Dan, a simple "fuck you asshole" would suffice for a P.O.S like the so-called Mr Starks.

Strategist says

You are just sore because you can't compete.

I compete just fine and I'm set for life. However, unlike you, I actually give a damn about others including the next generation of STEM professionals. That is something you will never understand.

Macropodia the Troll says

He'd have an aids infested canadian passport...

Rin says

Fuck you and I pray for your early death.

I'm not a religious man, but that's the most convincing argument I've ever heard to change my mind.

Rin says

Dan, a simple "fuck you asshole" would suffice for a P.O.S like the so-called Mr Starks.

The irony is that he admires a fictional character who is basically the embodiment of me, except that I have no problem with alcohol. But as far as personality and work goes I'm pretty much Tony Stark, a confident, some would say borderline arrogant, engineer who thinks no problem is to hard to solve and has little tolerance for intellectual inferiors. Occasionally, I even sport a goatee.

Hmm, goatee...goat. Maybe that's the CIC connection.

Strategist says

Who knows. It would seem to me she is the cream of the cro

Sounds like some kind of racism of high expectation, kind of like the opposite of what we do with inner city people.

Asian kid getting into all ivies isn't newsworthy

Rin says

Oakman, why are you still encouraging your students in applying to these colleges, the regular way?

He is doing them a disservice that's for sure, unless he simply believes that Ivy League is overrated ....however it doesn't seem that it is the case at all

theoakman says

that's the problem. If you stick any of my best students in New Mexico, they get in

While I am inclined to agree with you, i doubt their resumes would be nearly as stellar as the resources in NJ are far superior to nearly all the schools in NM including some of the elite schools.

Also the job market in NM is not what it is for professionals in NJ other than maybe medicine.

Where I went to school we did not even have AP courses, which are highly valuable for someone wanting to do engineering or medicine

theoakman says

they don't when the top 20 students in the school average SAT scores in each subject is 799.

They should be going to less competitive school but one that still offers a plethora of AP courses

I have a cousin who graduated from Los Gatos Hs in Los Gatos, CA who went to Dartmouth....her grandmother, my aunt, is the type of nincompoop who argues that her daughter should have moved to Cupertino where the top 20 students all apply to the same schools

Whether right or wrong there is a quota of 21% at the ivies and no matter what, they are not going to take each and every kid from your school . Not going to happen even if hell freezes over.

The kids parents moved into school district because it is more cost effective to send multiple kids to public so there is money for college tuition. But this is the problem with living in a school district that is 30% or more Asian.

PS: the parents do a lot of scheming and planning behind the scenes to produce these accomplishments that their kids place on their resumes.

Intel competition is a good example of that but good luck getting anyone to fess up to it.

theoakman says

One of them, by sophomore year, built a car that traveled 1 mile on 8 food calories.

I take it his parents work at migrant farms in Dayton and along Dey road?

theoakman says

students are discriminated against because they are Asian and because they come from a public school that has an insane pool of talen

Yes it's known as racism and it has been prevalent quite some time.

It's worse when your an Asian American from a resource poor area and also financially unwell, because at end of day, I am competing against a batch of other asians who are in a much higher economic class.

If the ivies wanted to fill every seat based on talent, they could take each and every kid from their well known feeder schools and a few top private schools in NYC and call it a day.

theoakman says

You can even take them out of their current school and stick them somewhere else in NJ and they'll get in anywhere they want.

If going to ivies is so important, then that is exactly what the parents should do.

Public school isn't the hun school or lawrenceville school and it never will be.

Question: who benefits most from the Asian quota (hint:prob not blacks and hispanics)

theoakman says

got a meeting with the board of directors of Tesla by age 19. Harvard and MIT missed out on him.

Sounds like better fit for Carnegie Mellon to be perfectly frank than Harvard.

MIT maybe a good point but how did he do in the intel science competition where parents do 50% of work or more behind scenes (Indians and asians)

this is expected. American kids have never been hungry before.

advice to white parents: send your kids to Africa boarding schools.

theoakman says

See...that's the problem. If you stick any of my best students in New Mexico, they get in

Comparing them to me is apples vs oranges because these kids have highly educated professionals as parents making a hell of a lot more money than my parents did and access to academic resources that I didn't have

Still I became a resident in internal medicine the hard way at an advanced age as a second career and I start in July . I can confidently say that my teachers deserve virtually ZERO credit for the person I am today; only my parents, my wife and myself.

If it see my kid and I really cared that much about the ivies I wouldn't tell my kid what you tell your kids that's for certain.

Asian kids at schools where the top 20 kids have perfect SAT, it's a fact of life, all will not get into ivies. To hear you speak, you make it sound like yours is the only competitive school district in America with lots of Asians and it really isn't.

'Your Asians' have to compete with a slew of Asians across the US in other upper middle class enclaves and internationally.

Asians are seen as fungible assets at ivies until they aren't and then they are offered admission. The thing is merit matters, but so does luck and family connections and money.

RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks says

advice to white parents: send your kids to Africa boarding schools.

Lol...only the British ones designed for internationals, although most schools there follow a British system.

Rin says

MMR, if you had me as an uncle ... using a parallel universe metaphor, I would have gotten you the subject material for every single course you'd have to take at the Univ of London. I'd break up the material, making you master each section and then, supplement those units with online classes, in adjacent areas, allowing you to consolidate the information to the point, where outside of graduate level mathematics, you'd be among the best students in econometrics for the undergraduate club.

That is a very high honor, I'm flattered that you think so highly of me....I certainly wish I had such guidance academically in the formative years.

I wish I was a bit younger, but if I could offer this someday to my future kids, I would rather have them do that than most of the alternatives.

How does one get their hands on such valuable info?

Article doesn't mention anything about 83% of recent refugees dropping out of school, going on welfare and becoming a terrorist.

MMR says

theoakman says

See...that's the problem. If you stick any of my best students in New Mexico, they get in

Comparing them to me is apples vs oranges because these kids have highly educated professionals as parents making a hell of a lot more money than my parents did and access to academic resources that I didn't have

Still I became a resident in internal medicine the hard way at an advanced age as a second career and I start in July . I can confidently say that my teachers deserve virtually ZERO credit for the person I am today; only my parents, my wife and myself.

If it see my kid and I really cared that much about the ivies I wouldn't tell my kid what you tell your kids that's for certain.

Asian kids at schools where the top 20 kids have perfect SAT, it's a fact of life, all will not get into ivies. To hear you speak, you make it sound like yours is the onl...

None of what you say is true about their parents. You've only proven the fact that they are discriminated against because you automatically assume they were of the mold of a cookie cutter asian, which would have been my other 50 students.