patrick.net

bob2356 says

It is always a strawman. Most sanctuary city policies (there are a few outliers. are to make local law enforcement easier by engendering trust between illegals and local law enforcement. If that makes federal immigration enforcement more difficult then that is not the local officials problem.

Nonsense. They're there to keep illegals in the country. When Brown lowered the maximum penalty for misdemeanors from 365 to 364 days, that was a deliberate attempt to avoid triggering a Federal automatic deportation statute (anybody who serves a year in jail for a crime).

The whole "cooperate with local law enforcement" is a red herring excuse.

That hardly covers services they get.

They get handouts, services. They don’t pay income taxes.
If gas taxes are enough to pay for everything, hell let’s remove income taxes and property taxes.

LeonDurham says

FortWayne says

No they don’t. They are all cash and food stamps here.

I live here, I see it.

They pay for gas with food stamps? Amazing. Rent too?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2018/04/14/449461/americas-electoral-future-2/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/trump-2016-election/528519/

Like old people dying and the population getting younger and more educated? Not sure what your point is there.


TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Dems back illegal immigration and oppose any restrictions on it

Complete BS. That is a 100% lie. It's patently absurd. Once again I'm reminded that the next election is about truth vs. fiction. Lies vs. honesty.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Straw Man. However, teachers are notoriously dedicated democrat voters and Teachers Unions are rabid funders of Democrats.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. The point is that more teaching jobs doesn't create more Dems. Having babies creates Dems. More teachers just means there are jobs for those babies.

LeonDurham says

Complete BS. That is a 100% lie. It's patently absurd. Once again I'm reminded that the next election is about truth vs. fiction. Lies vs. honesty.

100% True.

We just had a girl murdered by an illegal. The reaction of the Press AND the Democrats: Talk about Separating "Families" at the Border, dismiss it as "Some girlf from Iowa", and use the biased Orwellian neologism "Undocumented" instead of the more accurate and widely understood "Illegal Alien".

We saw CNN and MSNBC commentators discussing how Toxic Masculinity, not Immigration, was responsible, and tried to create and equivalency between temporary separation to halt human smuggling and Murder.

.LeonDurham says

I don't think you know what a strawman is. The point is that more teaching jobs doesn't create more Dems. Having babies creates Dems. More teachers just means there are jobs for those babies.

Teachers don't overwhelmingly vote Democrat? Teachers Unions don't disproportionally give to Democrats? This is an extraordinary claim, please provide some evidence.

Educators are very different in political beliefs than the general public:
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/12/13/survey-paints-political-portrait-of-americas-k-12.html

FortWayne says

They pay for gas with food stamps? Amazing. Rent too?

You realize that trading Food Stamps for smokes and booze is quite common, yes?

"Hey Mister, If you buy me a 40, I'll buy ya $10 of stuff on my Oregon Trail Card. Whatta deal, Mister, c'mon."

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You realize that trading Food Stamps for smokes and booze is quite common, yes?

"Hey Mister, If you buy me a 40, I'll buy ya $10 of stuff on my Oregon Trail Card. Whatta deal, Mister, c'mon."

You realize that nobody is trading food stamps for rent or gas, right?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

100% True.

100% bullshit. 1000% bullshit. It's really sad that our political discourse has deteriorated to one side lying and the other side having to constantly correct it.

Everything that follows in your post is more BS. It's honestly no fun to post here anymore because it's not a back and forth of ideas and opinions, it's one side posting lies and BS and the other side trying to correct it.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

eachers don't overwhelmingly vote Democrat? Teachers Unions don't disproportionally give to Democrats? This is an extraordinary claim, please provide some evidence.

Did you read my post at all? That is not at all what I said. People who teach are ALREADY Dems. It doesn't matter how many teaching jobs there are--they will vote Dem whether they are teaching or working at Home Depot. Folks who go into teaching are typically college educated, who value education, care about children, etc. and those are Dem values. So, yes, teachers are more likely to vote Dem, but there is no cause and effect there.

Aphroman says

Tens of millions of Great Americans are taking a big fat dump on Trumps face with his ridiculous drug laws

I'm on your side of this argument 10,000% as far as marijuana legalization goes. But how does this fall at the feet of Trump? Congress can get off their ass at some point and take care of this in short order. THEN if Trump doesn't sign it, I'm with you. I personally think he'd sign a marijuana legalization bill if it was popular with the people (it is) and was sitting on his desk.

His life is an infinite popularity contest and if this were to come up prior to 2020, he'd sign it in a heartbeat. Signing a law like that could seriously flip 1-3% of Dem voters and would seal the deal on a 2nd term. Remember, the right leaning (church going) folks still had to vote for him to get him elected. So weed legalization would flip some of even the most ardent Trump bashers when you account for the church goers being cool with pussy grabbing and voting for him.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Nonsense. They're there to keep illegals in the country. When Brown lowered the maximum penalty for misdemeanors from 365 to 364 days, that was a deliberate attempt to avoid triggering a Federal automatic deportation statute (anybody who serves a year in jail for a crime).

The whole "cooperate with local law enforcement" is a red herring excuse.

Because you say so? It's true because I believe it should be true. Illegals could be all gone in la very short time. All that has to happen is to direct the Justice department to prosecute employers until no one will hire an illegal. But those libruls in the oval office and controlling both houses of congress don't seem to want to take that step. There is only one group keeping illegals in the country. Conservative who block every attempt to eliminate the jobs they are here for.

LeonDurham says

Folks who go into teaching are typically college educated, who value

reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation/all whites are racist/recycling

P N Dr Lo R says

reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation/all whites are racist/recycling

The only ones I ever see worrying about race/gender/sexual orientation are Trump cultists. The number of threads started by them talking about Trigglypuff or who goes to what bathroom is mind boggling.

P N Dr Lo R says

LeonDurham says

Folks who go into teaching are typically college educated, who value

reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation/all whites are racist/recycling

As opposed to reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation all muslims are terrorists, all mexicans are rapists, all blacks are on welfare, women belong int the kitchen or bedroom serving their man fags are all molesting boys?

LeonDurham says

You realize that nobody is trading food stamps for rent or gas, right?

Food stamps trade for cash regularly, which in turn is used for gas, rent, and other non-food items.

bob2356 says

P N Dr Lo R says

LeonDurham says

Folks who go into teaching are typically college educated, who value

reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation/all whites are racist/recycling

As opposed to reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation all muslims are terrorists, all mexicans are rapists, all blacks are on welfare, women belong int the kitchen or bedroom serving their man fags are all molesting boys?

Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance.

Congrats on your strawman.

bob2356 says

all muslims are terrorists

Sounds accurate to me.

LeonDurham says

You realize that nobody is trading food stamps for rent or gas, right?

Okay, so you concede that Food Stamps are abused now, yes?

You also realize it's possible for the mother and kids to be on welfare, but the father who lives with them to be an undeclared co-habitant who works off the books for cash-only, yes?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You also realize it's possible for the mother and kids to be on welfare, but the father who lives with them to be an undeclared co-habitant who works off the books for cash-only, yes?

Not just that, the father and mother may not even "legally" marry but live together, so the mother gets more benefits, or even both can claim benefits as separate entities.

bob2356 says

Because you say so? It's true because I believe it should be true. Illegals could be all gone in la very short time. All that has to happen is to direct the Justice department to prosecute employers until no one will hire an illegal. But those libruls in the oval office and controlling both houses of congress don't seem to want to take that step. There is only one group keeping illegals in the country. Conservative who block every attempt to eliminate the jobs they are here for.

Right, but I'm supposed to true that Democrats aren't pandering to illegals by not reporting them to ICE, attempting to legalize their citizenship, and letting them vote in local elections.

Sorry Bob, the era of the Establishment Legacy Media is over. Just because a few big networks say it's so, doesn't make it so.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

You also realize it's possible for the mother and kids to be on welfare, but the father who lives with them to be an undeclared co-habitant who works off the books for cash-only, yes?

What does this have to do with illegals not being able to collect most forms of welfare? And that the little they do collect is mostly from local and State sources, where they DO pay taxes.

LeonDurham says

What does this have to do with illegals not being able to collect most forms of welfare? And that the little they do collect is mostly from local and State sources, where they DO pay taxes.

How does a day laborer pay taxes on cash off the books?

Sales Taxes? Great! Tell everybody under $50k/year they don't have to pay anything but sales tax, it pays for everything!

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

How does a man working off the books pay taxes on cash off the books?

I already told you. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Pretty much all local taxes and a lot of state taxes. You know, the ones that actually pay for his limited amount of welfare.

P N Dr Lo R says

reinterpreting everything within the context of race/gender/sexual orientation/all whites are racist/recycling

CBOEtrader says

Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance.

Yep. Glad you pointed that out.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Right, but I'm supposed to true that Democrats aren't pandering to illegals by not reporting them to ICE, attempting to legalize their citizenship, and letting them vote in local elections.

I suppose it's true republicans aren't pandering to illegals by ignoring obviously bogus documentation to illegally give them poor paying jobs and driving the wages down for poor Americans. If there were no jobs there would be no one here to report to ICE or vote in local elections.

Goran_K says

Not just that, the father and mother may not even "legally" marry but live together, so the mother gets more benefits, or even both can claim benefits as separate entities.

This problem isn't exclusive to illegals. I know you're not saying that here, but just wanted to point this out. We've got a lot of legal black and white trash abusing this setup currently. I know of one specifically, who funny enough is a white girl engaged/married to a legal Mexican dude (#racedoesntmatter). This is not a joke either. She won't get married because they'll cut the food stamps and some other benefit. She's literally told my wife this. They also had a wedding, obviously without the certificate. Pretty stupid, but almost impossible to enforce kind of thing.

LeonDurham says

I already told you. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Pretty much all local taxes and a lot of state taxes. You know, the ones that actually pay for his limited amount of welfare.

Then great! It's time for California to cancel all taxes but the sales tax, since it pays for Everything!

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

How does a day laborer pay taxes on cash off the books?

Why aren't they reporting them to ICE instead of giving them work? Why aren't you reporting the employer to the IRS if you know about it? Are you someone who is supporting illegals by not speaking out?

bob2356 says

I suppose it's true republicans aren't pandering to illegals by ignoring obviously bogus documentation to illegally give them poor paying jobs and driving the wages down for poor Americans. If there were no jobs there would be no one here to report to ICE or vote in local elections.

The discrimination is that it's illegal for them to be here in the first place.

If you want to have open borders, campaign for it honestly and win elections.

Don't do it by stealth which undermines democracy.

If illegals voted Republican, the Democrats would be demanding a Wall.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The discrimination is that it's illegal for them to be here in the first place.

If you want to have open borders, campaign for it honestly and win elections.

Don't do it by stealth which undermines democracy.

That makes very little sense. Giving them jobs so they pour across the border undermines democracy.

Maybe you should just give up and admit the illegals are here because businesses give them jobs and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

bob2356 says

That makes very little sense. Giving them jobs so they pour across the border undermines democracy.

Maybe you should just give up and admit the illegals are here because businesses give them jobs and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

So San Francisco didn't give Illegals the right to vote?

Jerry Brown didn't lower the maximum penalty for misdemeanors to 364 days deliberately, in order to help illegals escape deportation orders that kick in for anybody incarcerated for a year or more?

Shit, the fucking Mayor warned illegals about a Federal Enforcement action. That's active interference. Yeah, no politicking here.

I already said countless times on this site that NeverTrump, GOPe Republicans ARE in favor of illegal immigrants. However, so are most Democrats.

RafiMaas says

I really don't consider not giving a fuck about something as "in favor".

Giving illegals the right to vote is "in favor".

The Democrats not only don't want to do anything, the only thing they want to do is have amnesty WITHOUT controlling the border or increasing enforcement. In fact, particularly in California, Democrats have been doing everything possible to impede Immigration Enforcement.

Whereas half the Republicans lie about giving a shit.

RafiMaas says

Which San Francisco Mayor warned illegals?

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Federal immigration agents arrested more than 150 people in California in the days after Oakland’s mayor gave early warning of the raids, it was announced Tuesday.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials announced that agents made the arrests in a three-day sweep starting Sunday that covered cities from Sacramento in the north to Stockton in the Central Valley. About half of those arrested for being in the country illegally had criminal convictions, the agency said.

On Saturday, Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf warned residents that “credible sources” had told her a sweep was imminent, calling it her “duty and moral obligation” to warn families.

The warning “was meant to give all residents time to learn their rights and know their legal options,” she said in a statement Tuesday night reported in the San Francisco Chronicle.

California lawmakers from Gov. Jerry Brown down to local mayors have resisted a Trump administration immigration crackdown that they contend is arbitrarily hauling in otherwise law-abiding people and splitting up families that include U.S.-born children.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/28/oakland-mayor-isnt-sorry-warning-immigrants-over-ice-arrests-more-than-150-california-raids-and-slam/380387002/

Even the McPaper agrees that California Lawmakers are resisting the "Trump administration immigration crackdown".

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The Democrats not only don't want to do anything, the only thing they want to do is have amnesty WITHOUT controlling the border or increasing enforcement.

Could you point to any Dem saying they don't want to control the border? Any?

More strawman arguments from the king of strawman arguments.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Then great! It's time for California to cancel all taxes but the sales tax, since it pays for Everything!

So, I list 3 taxes and you pretend I only listed one? Dishonest much?

bob2356 says

and keep them here by contributing massive amounts of money, almost all to the republican party, to make sure that no politician will derail the money train.

Literally just made up nonsense. We can all play pretend if ya like

LeonDurham says

Could you point to any Dem saying they don't want to control the border? Any?

How about the opposite, why don't you demonstrate that at least a plurality of democrats want to control the border and reduce Immigration.

LeonDurham says

So, I list 3 taxes and you pretend I only listed one? Dishonest much?

Property tax isn't paid by renters directly, but by property owners. In the case of an illegal woman and children claiming welfare, the rent may be paid by the state. The Sales Tax and Gas Tax alone pay for ALL the services illegals use? Great! You can halt the CA income tax on all incomes under $100k!

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Property tax isn't paid by renters. The Sales Tax and Gas Tax alone pay for ALL the services illegals use? Great! You can halt the income tax on all incomes under $100k!

While I agree that, in abstract, renters don't pay property taxes--in the real world, they do.

Illegals don't use very many services.

LeonDurham says

Illegals don't use very many services.

When an off-the-books laborer illegal falls off the roof and goes to the ER without insurance, who pays?

How many years of sales taxes does it take to pay $5000 minimum for a broken limb?

LeonDurham says

While I agree that, in abstract, renters don't pay property taxes--in the real world, they do.

That's a little misleading.

You can just as accurately say they drive UP the costs of housing by increasing demand in areas of very limited supply - esp. for affordable housing.

(Which is one reason the wealthy of US and Europe and Canada LOVE mass immigration).

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

That's a little misleading.

You can just as accurately say they drive UP the costs of housing by increasing demand in areas of very limited supply - esp. for affordable housing.

Or you could say they drive DOWN the costs by providing cheap labor for companies building housing stock. Which is the real reason the 1% looks the other way. They want cheap labor.