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Can't refinance under water


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2007 May 3, 4:35am   24,134 views  283 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

underwater houses

During the boom, if borrowers asked about the adjustable rates on their mortgages, they were told "oh, you can just refinance and start over".

But no one told them you can't refinance if your house is under water, that is, if the loan amount is more than the value of the house. Banks won't go for that, even in the continuing lax lending environment.

So their rates will adjust upward, and they won't be able to pay the mortgage, or refinance, or sell for what they paid.

Interesting times ahead.

Patrick

#housing

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225   cb   2007 May 5, 2:55am  

One item I remember is that although the welding was done by robots, they had a team of welders on hand.

I remembered some of the robots were in cages for safety reasons, not for safety of the workers but people were sabotaging robots in the early days.

226   Allah   2007 May 5, 4:16am  

If you don’t believe me, just go ahead and try and buy something.

Now, why would we want to do that? That's like saying, "Try to kill yourself! I bet you can't!".

227   Peter P   2007 May 5, 4:19am  

I like the hybrid concept but it has too much complexity. I prefer simplicity.

228   Brand165   2007 May 5, 4:44am  

Isn't the Tesla an all-electric racecar? Don't know if that's a babe magnet, though. Dual climate control, leather seats and a good European brand seem to go farther with them.

229   Brand165   2007 May 5, 4:51am  

I consider this a pretty hot car:

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

230   Randy H   2007 May 5, 5:08am  

Funny

I'm looking at April numbers from one of the big, top price agencies in SF and there are almost no multiple bids, and more sales for under asking than over.

Hmmm. Maybe BigBrother is looking at last year's numbers.

231   Randy H   2007 May 5, 5:11am  

My spy (who happens to have access to all coastal CA numbers for this agency) tells me they are under *strict* orders to not admit prices are going down, and to "tell everyone it is red hot with multiple bids". He also said a number of low performing agents are being let go. Is it normal to get rid of agents during the "spring selling season" BB?

232   Randy H   2007 May 5, 6:16am  

BigBrother

You are welcome to stay in an overpriced condo in the city. But, if you ever make enough money to afford an actual house in Marin, you'll be in for a big surprise. I'll inform all the people who actually own your client's places of work that they live in "the boonies".

You don't know the meaning of the word "boonies". While you're at it, look up "choad".

233   Allah   2007 May 5, 7:59am  

BigBrother, maybe "those people" that are bidding up prices should meet up with these people.

234   FormerAptBroker   2007 May 5, 9:07am  

Randy H Says:

> Hmmm. Maybe BigBrother is looking
> at last year’s numbers.

Or maybe things are so slow at the open house today that he is typing on his Treo trying to get some of us to rush out and buy…

235   Michael Holliday   2007 May 5, 11:49am  

HOUSING HAIKU 2007

This whole housing mess
is one big debacle. No-
thing more. Nothing less.

--MH

236   danville woman   2007 May 5, 1:13pm  

Need babe magnets? Try training a Guide Dog. Guaranteed to attract all kinds of women when you are out and about. However, can't leave the dog at home for long periods and takes lot of time and dedication.

237   Malcolm   2007 May 5, 2:32pm  

Peter P Says:
May 5th, 2007 at 11:19 am
"I like the hybrid concept but it has too much complexity. I prefer simplicity. "

Go test drive a Prius, it is the coolest thing you've ever driven. They are super simple, you don't even turn the key to start it. The smart key option is fantastic. Randy makes a true point though, you become obsessive with trying to get the most efficiency out of it so you do drive 65 to try to make the little graph go up. It is a little hypocritical I admit because then I jump in my Boxster and drive 95 without a care in the world about efficiency.

238   Malcolm   2007 May 5, 2:40pm  

Danville Woman Says:
May 5th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
"Need babe magnets? Try training a Guide Dog. Guaranteed to attract all kinds of women when you are out and about. However, can’t leave the dog at home for long periods and takes lot of time and dedication. "

San Diego has a couple of 'dog beaches' which I think are really good pick up places. If I were single I'd take my dogs to the beach a lot more. I think people buy dogs sometimes as a conversation starter. It is quite fun to stand around and talk to people about their dogs.

239   Malcolm   2007 May 5, 2:42pm  

I'll be interested to see what the upcoming auctions do to the median home prices in LA Riverside and San Diego. People who are saying prices haven't plummeted don't realize that the house has to actually sell to be included in the numbers. These auctions force the issue, and this is all part of a very clear scenario.

240   cb   2007 May 5, 4:04pm  

Malcolm,

You sound like a M3 driver, tailgating, going 95 :)

241   Randy H   2007 May 5, 4:06pm  

Tailing too close leads to far more deaths a year then DUI’s.

I'd like to see the evidence supporting this claim.

Regardless, the problem is Prius owners, and not just them but also any other self-appointed "slow down to my speed" zealots, do far more damage than good. Yes people drive over the limit. That is just the way it is. When you get in the wrong lane and drive like a moron you put everyone else at risk. How?

Have you ever been tootling down the 280 in the 3rd lane when suddenly the guy in front of you -- at a very safe distance -- going 75 jumps to the 4th lane, only to reveal some jagoff in a Prius going 50? Then you jump left. Then the guy behind you jumps left. And so on. If you're lucky, no one gets killed.

In most countries of the world where high-speed highways exist, there is a self-policed order to things. Slow people get right. Faster people get left. You don't pass on the right. You don't doddle on the left.

But you keep telling yourself you're holier than thou, azrob. I hope you have rear airbags for the time that 5 series ends up in your hatchback.

242   Jimbo   2007 May 5, 4:27pm  

People going fifty in the left lane are idiots. People going the speed limit in the #2 lane (the one to the right of the "fast" lane) are not. All, imho, of course and as someone who does not even own a car.

If you are going under the speed limit, you belong in the slow lane. That is what it is there for.

243   Peter P   2007 May 5, 4:37pm  

Tailing too close leads to far more deaths a year then DUI’s.

Huh? Well, I usually leave 4 seconds of space. I prefer staying below speed limit but if the flow is faster I will have to speed up. It is not safe to have large variance of speed.

However, I do not think it is safe to go more than 10mph above.

244   astrid   2007 May 5, 9:04pm  

justme,

What's your objective? If you're care about gas mileage, look into diesel. If want environmental friendliness, consider a bicycle or a moped. If you want to pick up women who only care about cars, look into high end car rentals for the nights when you cruise.

245   astrid   2007 May 5, 9:09pm  

justme,

What's your objective? If you're care about gas mileage, look into diesel. If you want environmental friendliness, consider a bicycle or a moped. If you want to pick up women who only care about cars, look into high end car rentals for the nights when you cruise.

246   astrid   2007 May 5, 9:24pm  

People who drive too slow should stay home.
People who drive too fast or tailgates too regularly should have their license revoked.
People over the age of 70 or those with a diagnosed condition that could impair their driving are not allowed to drive under the penalty of lifetime medium security nursing home facility.
Handicapped people can get a van service and no driving privileges.
Build more railroad capacity and kill the long distance trucking industry.
End all ethanol subsidies.
Severely tax all vehicles (on a sliding scale) with MPG lower than 30.

Oh, how about high quality, high density housing close to work and interspersed with well policed public park spaces (strict dog poop bagging rules in place).

All things I will do once I'm proclaimed the queen of the universe.

(this little thought experiment makes Japan look really good)

247   astrid   2007 May 5, 10:29pm  

Peter P,

You might enjoy this NYT article on fake Chinese medical supplies. People in Mainland China has known for years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all

Anyhow, for those of you who say there's too much nanny state and you rather vote Bush than ... Keep in mind that the Bush administration has no problems with cutting FDA inspection budget dispite this potentially huge public health issue.

248   Allah   2007 May 6, 1:30am  

Don't be surprised if the median goes up instead of down due to more sales of discounted luxury housing like it has here on Long Island.

249   Allah   2007 May 6, 1:32am  

Above post in reference to Malcolm's post

I’ll be interested to see what the upcoming auctions do to the median home prices in LA Riverside and San Diego. People who are saying prices haven’t plummeted don’t realize that the house has to actually sell to be included in the numbers. These auctions force the issue, and this is all part of a very clear scenario.

250   Michael Holliday   2007 May 6, 2:01am  

Massive Layoffs at IBM? Wouldn't surprise me!

Read on:

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20070504_002027.html

251   Brand165   2007 May 6, 2:05am  

Randy H says: In most countries of the world where high-speed highways exist, there is a self-policed order to things. Slow people get right. Faster people get left. You don’t pass on the right. You don’t doddle on the left.

I was under the impression that you could get a hefty ticket on the autobahn for any of the above offenses.

252   dp337   2007 May 6, 3:22am  

Decided to peruse the neighborhood (Willow Glen) for open houses with the missus yesterday. We looked at about 5 houses in a .5 mile radius of each other.

1. All houses were priced between 1 - 1.9 Million
2. Houses were in neighborhoods don't merit million dollars price tags.
3. 3 of the 5 houses were new. Yep, new. They tore down the old house and built a new one. Which stands out in a street with much older houses.
4. We were told by the realtors that the market is much better than last year and is moving upwards.
5. I also checked the log book and nothing more than three entries. We looked late in the afternoon.

My wife and I make a decent living. We can afford the lower end of the price tag but we're not smoking crack either. I was especially amused by the one house that was 1 mil and there were no upgrades since early 1970's. It still had the funkadelic glass walls.

Whatever happened the last 6 years with the housing prices is just sad. I don't see it going down drastically in the short term. I think it will go down slowly for the next 10 years in the BA. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be sticking around the BA to wait.

253   Peter P   2007 May 6, 5:17am  

Why does Paris do 45 days for a bad license when millians of illegal mexicans are driving around LA everyday with no license.

Why are some employers sued for firing gays when most employers can fire people with no reason at all?

Disclaimer: I have no problems with homosexuals. This is merely an illustration.

254   Peter P   2007 May 6, 5:21am  

Keep in mind that the Bush administration has no problems with cutting FDA inspection budget dispite this potentially huge public health issue.

The problem is that more inspection will not necessarily eliminate the problem. Look, the whole DEA could not win the war on drugs.

The solution is common sense public awareness. Education is the key.

255   Peter P   2007 May 6, 5:24am  

I am against jailing people for minor offenses. It costs too much.

256   Peter P   2007 May 6, 5:41am  

Severely tax all vehicles (on a sliding scale) with MPG lower than 30.

I am against any form of progressive taxation because government should not make value judgement on consumption and/or production.

257   astrid   2007 May 6, 6:21am  

Peter P,

I'm pretty sure the PEREZ jailing is just an excuse to produce a direct-to-internet women in prison film.

258   astrid   2007 May 6, 6:24am  

I find it mindboggling that you think we can be educated to avoid tasteless, odorless poison disguised as cough syrup.

259   Brand165   2007 May 6, 7:04am  

The real culprit here is our limp enforcement of trade laws. The U.S. should be in an uproar over the Chinese medical counterfeits. Instead, we will just issue a verbal warning and go on our merry way. Because the benefits of cheap goods like pet food, medical goods and T-shirts far outweighs the drawbacks of a couple dogs and people getting sick.

Look at how hard Japan snapped us back when they found parts of spine in U.S. beef exports. To my knowledge, we've only had one case of Mad Cow here in the last decade. But the Japanese aren't screwing around. They said no risk of Mad Cow, and they meant no risk of Mad Cow. Period. They inspect their imports and they enforce their trade laws.

260   SP   2007 May 6, 7:36am  

I met my CPA for some tax planning advice - he also does taxes for a number of realtwhores. I asked him how they're doing - he just chuckled and said "oh they're hurtin'" and told me some of them went from making 300K in 2005 to 60K in 2006.

SP

261   Peter P   2007 May 6, 7:50am  

I find it mindboggling that you think we can be educated to avoid tasteless, odorless poison disguised as cough syrup.

You mean the housing bubble cool-aid? :)

262   Brand165   2007 May 6, 8:26am  

I actually read the IBM "article" from a link someone posted earlier. 150,000 people is more than IBM's entire U.S. workforce (not including contractors, I assume). Thus I tend to think the layoff was a ridiculously overblown rumor.

IBM did lay off 1300 people recently, and will probably do more in the near future. But unless they can create negative employees in the U.S., I fail to see how they could hit 150,000 here.

263   cb   2007 May 6, 9:12am  

Had dinner with family last night, sister in-law said her friend bought 4 houses in Sacto and is now letting it foreclosed. Her friend's household income is less than 100K. Wife's co-worker also bought 2 houses in Sacto and is now underwater and is very stressed visibly. Funny how she told my wife that we should also get in the game (flipping) and that we are too conservative. Usually I don't care what people do, but more often than not flippers always have to shoot their mouths off, now these people have to eat crow :)

264   Randy H   2007 May 6, 9:33am  

I met my CPA for some tax planning advice - he also does taxes for a number of realtwhores. I asked him how they’re doing - he just chuckled and said “oh they’re hurtin’” and told me some of them went from making 300K in 2005 to 60K in 2006.

My CPA is a prominent tax guy in Mill Valley who does work for an impressive list of folks, mostly in SF and Marin (I lucked into his practice because of my affiliation with a LLC he handled years back.)

He confirms what SP said. To paraphrase: a lot of [my clients] in real estate had a disaster of a year last year. And more telling, he said a lot of them have been asking him how to lower their estimated tax payments in 07 (which are normally based on the previous year's earnings). Anyone who's had to make dreaded estimated tax payments knows what that means.

But BB is doing great I hear ;)

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