patrick.net

I've heard enough radio commercials in the BA promising to get strapped home0wned a lower payment by $200-$300 a month to know they're really stretched tight. And raised payments means $500 to $1000 more a month, instant financial implosion, especially at this time of year.

Yeah, get out the popcorn, this is gonna be good.

I've done manual labor jobs in my youth. My first paying job was night janitor at the San Jose Mercury-News. Can you imagine how black I got cleaning the oil and ink off the printing presses? This was summer work in college and I certainly didn't complain - it paid union scale. Later in school I moonlighted doing landscaping work.

My parents both picked fruit and "cut cots" in Santa Clara county when they were kids. My father started with AT&T as a lineman before moving up to management.

I don't quite know where this "Americans won't get their hands dirty" line came from.

DennisN that's how it used to work - you started out doing stuff like clearing weeds and babysitting whiny kids and various other types of menial work, then started out as a lineman for the phone co or stocker at your local grocery or something like that, and worked up. We were all taught there was no shame in doing menial work, and in fact a kid would be ridiculed if they refused to do some job like mowing lawns or flipping burgers or something. It's deep in our culture, and even as trite as it sounds, why we've had things like Al Gore clearing brush by hand and Ronald Reagan out chopping weeds.

Unfortunately, if you're under 40, or even not that much over it, you're used to desperate adults taking the paperboy jobs, linemen staying linemen for life, and no union scale for much of anyone. The whole class structure is hardened into something more rigid than Europe's suffered under for 60 or more years, and we have what's essentially a caste system. There were jobs I wanted, and want now, that whites are not allowed to get. In a really diverse area, there are jobs and castes that only match up certain ways. A Filipino can clean hotel rooms, but a white can't. A white can sell real estate (and make a lot less money than the room cleaner) but a Filipino can't get that job. Certain races are bus drivers, certain others work those printing presses that were open for you to work at as a kid, and for good pay, more than it pays now I'm sure.

Whites are desperate to get any work, and who cares if the apprenticeship pays only $5 an hour? When after a year you're making $15 an hour? But they won't let a white in the door. And this is the kind of thing that gets people pissed off enough to revolt.

It's not xenophobia, it's survival.

"its the work ethic, a white thing" save that for your next kkk meeting you racist low class piece of sh!t...

The whole 'decline of the middle class is an epic disaster' is a common complaint. If you look at the last 6000 years of history almost the only time any country had a majority of workers living well in the 'middle' was US after we bombed all other factories into oblivion and nuked japan.

So unless we do the same again and get out the nukes - globalization will takes its course and level us out economically. The large middle class is a complete anomaly after ww2 and was really 'war spoils' and should be viewed that way. There is no way to create high paying factory jobs in large numbers in the US - no one can pay high prices for those items in large numbers to justify the job IMO.

Ruh more more racist ranting on the interent, what a surprise. For the record here in los angeles many people do not want to hire whites for manual labor (construction) they come in two flavors 1. unreliable druggie/flunky or 2. Overpriced prima donna "might not even take your job" types. And the white contractors always show up with hispanic day labors anyway - eff them, cut out the middle man, hire the mexicans directly, pay them more than the contractor, more works gets done= everyone is happy.

So I hire hispanics wherever possible for thier reasonable rates and good work ethic. To leave your country to mow lawns and do drywall in a foreign land - that takes motivation and work ethic. And the white guys who do construction nickel and dime you to death after the job starts "oh that costs extra, oh i cant do that - etc" In my and other experience. However I must say it was a mistake paying my hispanic tile guy to install a window but it turned out OK. He did great with painting and planting. Is he illegal? Dont ask dont tell....who cares.

I know small biz owners who will only hire whites, and they're doing better than the race-traitors who hire Hispanics. The whites they hire are hard-working etc. It works out well.

Hey, why are aspirin white? Because they work!

C-ya at the meeting!

And don't ask don't tell will bite you in the ass, because more and more states are cracking down on that sort of thing.

Illegal invasion of the US is a felony. You are hiring felons.

This is not going to work out well for those who hire illegals,

I think most of us here except for a few foreign elements really mourn the days of Mayberry, RFD. Well, count the number of illegals you see on that show doing the work. Hint: 0

this thread is horribly off topic....sorry everyone... i will no try to longer feed the off topic rants. Good luck to you sunnyvale renter.

"If you look at the last 6000 years of history almost the only time any country had a majority of workers living well in the ‘middle’ was US after we bombed all other factories into oblivion and nuked japan.

The US did not have a large middle class because all our competition was bombed out by our military. Nations like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the entire Western Hemisphere were untouched by WWII. For the nations in Europe that were trashed, wiki "Marshall Plan." You will see that the US spent billions on the recovery of Europe, and had those nations back up to their pre-war industrial productivity by 1950. In fact, many of the steel mills built in Europe were superior to our own. As for Japan, they became one of the world's top economies by 1970, no small part to US efforts and not having to provide for thier own defense.

I hope you do continue HelloKitty, I disagree with some of your points but then find myself completely agreeing with the current observations.

"For the record here in los angeles many people do not want to hire whites for manual labor (construction) they come in two flavors 1. unreliable druggie/flunky or 2. Overpriced prima donna “might not even take your job” types."

-That is the caste system ex-sunny is talking about. There is no room left for starting a kid out in that line of work because if you pay him enough he is all of a sudden guilty of a misdemeanor for not being a contractor, so you have to pay an overpriced contractor who is just adding his overhead salary to the meager wage the Mexican is getting. This leads me to where I do disagree with you.-

"There is no way to create high paying factory jobs in large numbers in the US - no one can pay high prices for those items in large numbers to justify the job IMO."

-Many people don't realize that direct labor is normally 10% of the entire wholesale selling price of a product. It is the 'below the line' bloated salaries that make things expensive. We have 100 million dollar a year CEOs and executives determining that minimum wage is too much to pay an American factory worker. Think of how much product you have to sell for the contribution to profit to pay just their salaries. In an HR course some smart ass basically accused me of questioning the free market when we were told of some 2 or 3 hundred million dollar compensation and I had the nerve to say "Wow, that's a lot of money."

GROUP THINK!!!

The collective Patrick.net political ideology, from the comic genius Richard Jeni.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX2buWNCAh0&feature=related

Well lets try to discuss things like urban studies professors might and leave the 'race war is coming, eff u' posts behind please.

I had an urban studies professor in college and in that field they like to claim CA and especially Los Angeles are the future models for the country, probably because the 50s car culture/fast food joints/tract homes/freeways everywhere took off big time in CA first. BUT Walmart is supposedly destroying 'mayberry' and not the Clownifornians.... At least the angry residents of flyoverville can't blame us for Walmart.

I admit Californians can be total dicks when traveling to FO. Drive around looking at real estate in the most expensive part of town, then excitedly tell everyone in texas how 'cheap' 300k homes are and you want to buy 3. thats annoying. ive actually done it and man what a shiddy way to behave, now i know better though....

HelloKitty said:
The large middle class is a complete anomaly

The real historical anomaly is the colossal income gap that exists between the production workers and the executives. If you cut the fat from executive compensation by just $5M per year, you can cover a $10/hour increase in compensation for about 200-250 workers.

And on a tangent, here is an interesting anecdote: I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a large software company in the Bay Area. He is a lead engineer for his project. Their project is staffed with a headcount of 76 people. He has a team of 16 engineers, many of them junior level. They have 9 QA. The other 50 people in the budget are various flavors of "managers" and "architects". WTF? More than half of his time is spent trying to deflect the political crap from these hangers-on. And he desperately needs a couple of senior systems engineers and can't get approval to hire them because of the headcount for his project...

Just saying I was from San Diego, when I visited Phoenix a couple of years ago, was enough for people there to start with the "Wow you could buy 3 houses here!" Or, "Hey you wanna trade houses?" I didn't even bring it up, just said I was from San Diego. It was like they had been following our market and assumed everyone here was some sort of tycoon. I know what you're talking about though, because I did look at a couple of listings and $325K did get you the 3,000sf double or single level with the granite kitchen and the pool with the rock waterfall.

It actually started to get annoying, like whenever you wash your car someone feels they need to ask "Will you do mine while you're at it?"

SP, at Metallic Power we used to call those guys window dressing executives. A lot of times they are hired just to make the business plan look like you have a complete management team. We transitioned from being an R&D company to a professional meeting organization. I loved reading the policy about them not traveling together, and we used to joke that it would slow the burn rate if they did and something were to happen.

The real historical anomaly is the colossal income gap that exists between the production workers and the executives.

While I believe Free Market should make the final decision, I do believe this income gap is an anomaly.

Actually, I think this is caused by widespread passive stock ownership and the resulting misuse of management power.

After the next stock market crash, the reality will assert itself again: profit belongs to shareholders, not executives!

SP, if your friend's team isn't getting their work done, it's probably due to organizational inefficiencies. Perhaps they are not reaching consensus with all their key stakeholders quickly enough, or perhaps there is a significant amount of redesign and low re-use. I recommend hiring a team of expert process architects. As I'm sure you know, the engineering process is the greatest factor in how much work can be accomplished, even moreso than headcount. I would also recommend hiring a communications consultant to improve the synergy between the many managers, architects and engineers. If there's crosstalk or misalignment, that can take a lot of time to resolve.

Now it just so happens that you can hire an experienced team of process consultants, complete with a management interface expert, for only $150/hr per head. What a deal! Your friend can increase productivity and achieve improved results with the same amount of people. Plus management will feel great because it is directly engaged in the engineering process, providing its expertise and hands-on guidance.

RIP Richard, one of the great ones.

Peter, have you ever watched the sorry affair that is our presidential election? Now imagine that same "democratic" principle applied to a bunch of uneducated shareholders trying to direct a CEO. Yeah, right.

Things will get better when boards of directors stop being composed of retired CEOs who are all golf buddies. And that's likely to happen right about... never.

ex-sunnyvale-renter Says:

"...As it happens, being so far out of town, I’m probably going to have to develop good, pro level caricature skills and get into town when I can, entertain and draw for tips and maybe make a very good per-hour wage but low hours..."
_____

Better yet, why don't you be the guy who twists long, skinny balloons into animal shapes for kids at Macayo's Mexican Restaurant in Litchfield Park.

Just a thought...

@Zephyr

Thanks for the comment. I've learned quite a bit from my debates with you and FAB. And they always have been civil, even when spirited and emotional.

What drove me offline wasn't a particular poster. It was myself. I take full responsibility for losing perspective and getting too emotionally invested in that particular debate. In the end, I just needed a break from thinking about anything housing.

I'll keep checking and chiming in on Patrick from now until whenever I happen to catch a foreclosure or panicked seller here in Moron...oops, I mean Marin.

interest rate cut tomorrow? I thought it was more towards the end of the month.

Why is it that everytime a caucasion guy speaks his mind, he's pegged as a racist. All I'm hearing is that we have laws and they should be enforced. The fact that the people breaking the law happen to be illegal hispanics is neither here nor there. We have a legal system and we have borders and both should be protected.

Holliday - it's a good idea, but frankly, i'm not that crazy about the idea. First, balloons feel weird. Second, they're always popping. Third, there are enough ppl doing that and I don't want to break their rice bowl.

Frankly, I'm not all that crazy about doing caricatures, but it's something I have a knack for, and it's always been something I 'should' do. This is where it comes down to "should" versus heart. The heart is with music, but I'm not very good yet. Um, not very good at all yet. Um, not at all anything yet. I'm probably doing great for a beginner, but just not ready for prime time. Where prime time means out in front of the local micky-D's or something. This is why I'm practicing every day and it's really pushing limits, I can't afford to get kicked out of here, but so far so good (crossing fingers).

empty-houses --- All are equal but some are more equal than others, and they ain't us!

This somewhat repeats Malcolm's post, but just so his response does not seem like an anomaly, I will answer Monkframe's questions, too.

"When was the last time that any of you applied for a job to clean a house?"

I cleaned houses from 1989-1990--the year after high school. Hard work, great money at the time.

"How about being a nanny, or bussing tables, or picking fruit in the fields?"

I worked as a part-time nanny from 2005-2007. Great job for a mom--community building for the kids. I personally know three women who worked their way through college as nannies. Oh, and my husband used to pick fruit as a summer job during college in the 1990s, as did several of my cousins.

"Not too recently I’ll wager."

This argument assumes that citizens genuinely don't want these jobs and that we have to import labor in order just to get them done. In fact, young people starting out, moms who want time with their own kids, adults with seasonal winter jobs, etc would be happy to do this work. Who do you think used to clean the houses and pick the fruit and take care of the toddlers?

I think US$ is a perishable item and should be date marked like:

US$, Best if used by August 2008

Gold hits record above $900

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Gold hit a record high above $900 an ounce on Monday as turmoil in financial markets, expectations of aggressive U.S. rate cuts and a falling dollar helped raise the metal's safe-haven appeal.

Platinum also hit a record while silver touched a 27-year peak.

Spot gold hit an all-time high of $909.30 an ounce, against $895.70/896.50 in New York on Friday.

COMEX gold futures touched $911.20 an ounce, surpassing Friday's record high of $900.10. The most active February contract was later quoted at $910.0, up $12.3 an ounce.

Japanese gold futures were closed for a holiday.

"There is blue sky ahead of us and there is room for gold to go higher. We are in an uncharted territory, really," said Darren Heathcote of Investec Australia in Sydney. "We have a weaker dollar and that's encouraged people to buy gold."

Investors have bought gold as a safe-haven asset after the dollar dropped on expectations the Federal Reserve would cut interest rates by an aggressive half-percentage point at its January 29-30 policy meeting to rescue the U.S. economy.

Fears of further subprime mortgage-related write-downs in the U.S. financial sector and inflation fears driven by record-high crude oil (CLc1) also attracted buying from investors and speculators.

"I can see there's some short-covering here and there," said Ronald Leung, director of Lee Cheong Gold Dealers in Hong Kong.

"Nobody knows what the next target is -- $910, or $920 and even $950. We don't know. There's short-covering everywhere."

The euro jumped to $1.4880 on electronic trading platform EBS, its highest level since late November and within sight of a record high of $1.4968 hit that month.

Mozilo, the son of a Bronx butcher, would be able to have some fun in style thanks to some perks in his severance package. In addition to the huge payout, Mozilo can take free rides on the company jet and have his country-club bills paid for, according to a Friday report in the Los Angeles Times.

Mozilo raised eyebrows by selling progressively larger amounts of company shares prior to a rash of bad news that drastically reduced the value of those shares. Mozilo made around $150 million in the stock sales. Shares of Countrywide have plummeted 82.5% over the past year.

Angelo Mozilo made nearly $150 million selling Countrywide shares before they tanked. The mortgage lender's chief executive can nearly double that windfall and also earn some luxurious perks if he leaves his post following the struggling company's acquisition by Back of America.

ex-sunnyvale renter: hows the kkk meetings going? you and the other mullet racists coming out to az to patrol the border?

I'm glad to see that we have working people looking at this site.

I heard an interview with a Florida citrus grower who was decrying the new policy of going after so-called "illegal immigrants."
He said that he'd never seen a white person show up to apply for a job in his orchards.

The empire's economy will collapse if all these people coming here for work in the jobs we largely don't want, are asked to leave.

"I saw an entire row of houses for sale. But only one home was listed in mlslistings.com. I discussed this with a broker, she told me only 1 in 27 homes are listed in mlslistings.com. If you want to get the full list, you need to go to RE Max, Prudential Realtors, their web sites. The realtors play this game to avoid public panic."
The mlslistings.com is not the prime MLS service for Stockton. mlslisting.com is one established by bay area realtor associations. Contrary to general misconception, the mls is local and run by the local realtor association board, though many (such in the bay area) band together to save cost etc. That said today there are 572 listing for Stockton on mlslisting.com. When the sellers agent put listing on mls they can set if it can be seen on the local free mls site operated by the local service, if it can be propgrated to the national realtors association website, and if it can be shared with other mls. Can't say what a realtor does, they all seem to do what they want since they are independent. Generally they want to sell the home quick so whatever they think will do that they do - its not like they're all one mindset following NAR since they all are independent tryting to make a buck (and to most of them NAR is just something that collects a fee from them every year so they can call themselves realtors). And contrary to popular views they are not interested in the highest price for you (or the lowest price if you're the buyer) - they interested in getting the deal closed and moving onto the next, that's the way they make money (do you really think that few percent price difference means diddle to what they get out of that vs. what they get if the deal falls through).