patrick.net

The Dems are pussies, once the bail-out was proposed. They immediately started thinking about adding provisions, they don't even think maybe we shouldn't pass this thing at all (even when their constituents are against it).

cb, neither did the Republicans that hated the plan.

The best protest...change your tax withholdings to exempt. This money will not come entirely from SWF. Every country is going to do the exact same thing to save their own as***.

Senator:
Why can’t we pay these banks the actual value of these toxic assets so maybe the tax payer may be able to recoup some of this money?

Paulson:
Can’t do that. We need to pay way more than these assets are actually worth. If we don’t, banks may choose to not participate.

Senator:
Can we put in a clause that reduces CEO pay of failed companies and multimillion dollar golden parachutes for CEOs of failed companies?

Paulson:
Can’t do that. In order for this to work we need them to want to participate. If they do not get those multi-million dollar bonuses they may choose to not participate.

American wage slave:
If this is such an emergency how can Wall Street still be in a position to “choose” and hold out for a sweetheart deal? This stinks!

This is really terrible. The rule of fear is trumpeting logic.

Even if something needs to be done - why this plan ? Instead of simply adding provisions - why are we not discussing alternatives ? Why is the congress is in such a hurry ?

Paulson scared the sh1t out of these congressman. No one wants to be blamed for the imminent depression. Every puppet is declaring - "We need to act fast and act decisively". Wow. What a circus.

There is no outrage. Nothing to the scale needed. There are no marches, no demonstration. Seems like American people have resigned to fate. The fate of getting raped by the PTB whenever the the PTB gets an erect1on.

EBguy,

What is the current balance outstanding for the various Fed credit facilities? How much did it change the last few days?

Ok.. "Don't fight them.. Just join them"!!!!

They are determined to "help people stay in their homes" I guess this means foreclosure forbearance and loan modification. Obviously this is not fair at all and can drive a prudent person nuts. My money is on the prudent person slowing slipping into imprudent ways. The prudent people still paying their loans which were obtained in the last 5 years in addition to putting 5 to 20 percent down and yet still underwater what will they do?

I think these people should stop paying their mortgages and qualify for the forbearance because they will be able to squeeze a good year of living for free in the house. The downside is simply a 3 year credit hit but who cares. Right?

Can someone walk me through this scenario in theory? For example in Southern California with a purchase money loan.

I called my Rep, and emailed him.

The public is clearly pissed about this one. If it gets through it is quite simply the final failure of our democratic system.

They're already on a knife edge regarding monetary policy and financial structure. If they stay on this path, they are going to lose all support from the public.

Triplec, you are absolutely right. The people who have continued to pay their mortgage even though their asset has been declining are about to jump ship.

Why the hell wouldn't they?
We've only just begun on the defaults.

And who in their right mind would BUY a house right now? You have to watch 5 seconds of tv these days to figure out that's a terrible idea.

So after things drop another 20%, and the foreclosures exponentially rise,
Then what? The FED asks us for $7 trillion instead of $700 billion?

What is the current balance outstanding for the various Fed credit facilities? How much did it change the last few days?
The TSLF increased by around $11 Billion to ~$197Billion total. Bid to ask on yesterdays $37.5Billion TSLF auction was 1.63.
TAF has not increased in ages and is holding steady at $150Billion. Will be interesting to see what the H.4.1 numbers look like later today.

Amen Bap. My blood is fucking boiling over this one.

Thanks, EBguy,

I found the "slosh report" that tallies the OMO at the Fed,

http://www.gmtfo.com/reporeader/OMOps.aspx

If you have time, can you explain how this related to the numbers you are getting from the Fed website spreadsheets? I admit being lazy here, but as everyone else I am a bit stressed about the goings on.

>>I’m voting for Chaves and Putin. and then moving to Oz. F this place.

Haha, Bap, I knew you would come around ;) How about Obama?

They might as well put Ahmedinijad and Chavez on the ticket. Those guys couldn't do much more harm than the criminals we currently have running the place.

Keep calling, faxing and emailing everyone. It is clearly rattling the cages, and at worst it is buying us time.

If this passes, it is a clear signal to me that the terms of my tax-deferred accounts won't mean a thing when it comes down to it: just manufacture a convincing enough, large enough crisis, and seizure can be justified on the flimsiest grounds. That tells me all I need to know to take the immediate penalty and tax hits, and pull the plug on every dollar-denominated investment I have, as well as start moving my business offshore. I don't even trust Paulson and his crew to not monkey around with foreign exchange rates so I won't even bother with ADRs and the like. At that point, it is either completely booked and traded in a non-dollar currency, or I'm not interested in the investment. I'll even settle for adding to my physically possessed precious metals in the absence of other options. The egregiousness of the violations won't happen right away, but I'm sure as hell not going to stick around without a bolt hole outside of the country.

The rules of the game are you need to call/fax/email each representative, each day. They look at the figures day-by-day, and as long as you are not part of some organized spam, each day's contact is legit in their eyes.

Figure out what you will do if this passes, because chances are it will.

apostasy or OO,

what is the best way to buy physical gold? I want physical delivery of it to me. I'm not talking about an amazing amount of it.

Are there dealers you would suggest? Should I try to find one locally?

At least some street protests are happening.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/080925/092508_bailout_protests.html

Is anyone aware of street protests in Bay Area ? I would definitely join.

Fuzzymath,

for small amount buy locally, find a coin dealer that has been in business for many years. Find the largest one.

Buy gold ONLY with cash when you are doing so locally, leave no paper trail, no address, no contact information.

Looks like the bailout deal is in some trouble.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080925/financial_meltdown.html

AP
Bailout deal breaks down; Bernanke back to Capitol
Thursday September 25, 7:49 pm ET
By Jennifer Loven and Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Associated Press Writers
Bailout deal breaks apart; Bernanke, Paulson head to Capitol for late-night negotiations

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Urgent efforts to lash together a $700 billion rescue plan for the national economy broke apart Thursday night, hours after key lawmakers had declared they had reached a deal.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke sped to Capitol Hill to try to revive or rework the proposal that the administration says must be quickly approved by Congress to stave off economic disaster.

ADVERTISEMENT
Congressional leaders were to meet with the economic chiefs into the night.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

Another shotgun wedding.

JPM is buying WaMu branches. WaMu stock is down over 50% to 75 cents after hours.

Breaking News....

WaMu is about to be bought by JP Morgan. I hope this thing falls apart before Congress can screw things up more.

http://www.kndo.com/Global/story.asp?S=9076540&nav=menu484_2_8

WaMu bites the dust!

All we have to do is buy only what we need; not what we think we need. If we did this for a very short time, the real economy would be forced to come through and jack up gummymans plans. Would that work?

Whoooo Hooooo!!!!!

Whoooo Hooooo - ME TOO!!!!!

I hated those ads; Good ridden s.

Couldn't even make it to Friday - wow!

Again I suggest the shortened work week. Start on Wed. so that Friday comes in 3 days and you have 4 days to work on bailouts over the long weekend.

It might be a good idea to Invest in Fiddles!!!

*Not investment Advice*

I take it back. It's not 75c it's 45c. Cheaper than bubble gum. I would still rather have bubblegum.

Dear *ME*:

Thank you for expressing your concerns with the problems in the financial sector and proposals to address them.

A lot of Ohioans, including me, are angry at the thought of bailing out people who made a lot of money making bad business decisions that created problems in neighborhoods across Ohio.
I agree that we need to avoid rewarding excessive risk taking. These institutions made unwise decisions, and taxpayers should not be expected to simply cover their losses.

Treasury Secretary Paulson this weekend sent a proposal to Congress that would give him almost unfettered authority to spend $700 billion purchasing troubled assets from financial institutions. On Tuesday, my colleagues on the Banking Committee and I held a hearing at which Secretary Paulson, Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke, and others testified.

They made a strong case for the need to act quickly to prevent further damage to our economy. The turmoil in the credit markets has the potential to do great damage to a lot of innocent bystanders. I am afraid that if we do not act, the economic instability could affect thousands of American jobs and the savings of countless middle class families.

But Secretary Paulson’s proposal is not the right answer. No Secretary should be given a $700 billion blank check. Taxpayers must be given an opportunity to recover their money, and assurances their tax dollars will not fund lavish pay and golden parachutes. We need strong rules to guard against abuse, and to ensure all types of institutions and regions are helped.

In the days ahead, we need to focus on containing the damage to middle class families and local businesses as much as possible. In the months ahead, we need to take a hard look at how financial markets are regulated so we never find ourselves in this situation again.

Thank you again for contacting me. I will certainly keep your views in mind as the Senate debates ways to help restore strength to our economy.
Sincerely,
Sherrod Brown

Look at this shit! I just got this from one of my reps in response to a letter I wrote last night.

I am Ok with the Bailout as long as these two conditions are met :

1) All the profits made by selling homes in the past 8 years are taxed at 50%. Put those numbers are tax liabilities which can be paid in next 10 years.

2) for 2000 - 2008 , Yearly salary above 40K (Average salary) per year at all institutions recieving bailout will be taxed at 50% and put as tax liability which can be paid in next 10 years.

This is an attempt to cancel out profits made from US tax payer with losses to US tax payer.

Bottom line : We need to partly get the money back from people who made all the big bucks during the boom and then use that to finance this bailout. I am not ready for the double whammy.

Stuck,

I'm with you on the protest idea. I've never marched on anything in my life, but this just can't be passed without an uproar from the public. I think one of the reasons they want it passed so quickly is to keep people from organizing.

There should be a bailout tax for next 10 years on the tax form.
People who made big bucks during boom time have to pay that.

Longtime Lurker....occasional contributor 2 years ago or so.....

anyway....

The way I see things is as follows:

there was a systemic problem w/regard to risk mgmt and tossing the req's for mortgages out the window....at fault were wall street wizards, hedge funds, insurance companies...etc. etc....all the way down to banks, mortgage "companies", mortgage originators, officers, and eventually the borrowers

so on the one hand...anyone that didn't play along is punished...true....on the other hand...throw the baby and the bath water inseparable w/re: bailout right? At least that's what the CW is w/Paulson chirping....

This is how I see it:

Yes we SHOULD bail out the irresponsible for the sake of the country like the S&L crisis etc.

Yes it's unfair

BUT and a big butt:

AS ROUBINI SAYS: the credit losses are 1-2 TRILLION DOLLARS! this thing is out the barn and running now for >2 years--homes in detroit have been declining since summer '05! including the upper class burbs!!!!!!!!

So what does this mean? It means IT DOESNT F**CKING MATTER what the gov't does (unless they become Mugabe-esque and try hyperinflation)! I just read the I think it's GALBRAITH book about the Depression and guess what happened in 1928 and 1929: they tried to manipulate the market...and guess what happened: they failed and we all remember it as "tightening credit" which "worsened the depression"

BULLS***T....now is the same they can throw a few hundred billion and try their auction facilities and claim injecting liquidity but guess what...there is zillions in capital vaporized forever in these roach and mold infested foreclosures! Have you actually seen what these homes in foreclosure look like! SCARY!!!!!

However, none of this is investment advice. I'm not nearly crazy enough to even think of what to do in markets like these.

I feel for the BOOMERS and big borrrowers that are in bad shape a little, but the GREED and HYSTERIA of the last 10 years gives me what's it called a little SCHADENFRUED or something!

I only wish I had a crystal ball and could have been like CASEY SERIN in CALIFORNIA with no RECOURSE and ATM'd myself to a life offshore somewhere!!!!!

even the bailout as it stands would tighten credit and regulation "to prevent it from happening again" which means there's less $ for lending...

so it doesnt matter as far as I can tell!

If i'm wrong please tell me why....

GOD BLESS US ALL!

well said revengeofaone.

This bailout plan is just a proxy to buy assets at "Peak Prices"
Who is going to determine what the actual price of an asset is ?
Can you believe in the appraisals ??
I think Govt will buy all the assets at the peak prices.
700B is no way going to be sufficient to cover the already lost value?
The total Bubble (fake wealth ) was around 12trillion according to case schiller index.
Even if we assume that 80% hold on to thier assets and service the debt.
20% of 12T is 2.4 Trillion Loss !!

Does anyone remember/ know what happened to Argentina stock market when their currency crashed?

Oh boy - not good!

http://tinyurl.com/4b6dw7

Got Gold?

FDIC takes WaMu on Thursday? What happened to Bank Failure Friday?

Grandpa McCain is showing his true colors by evading debate and issues like a headless chicken. I would have voted for McCain when was in his 40s, or 50s, but Senile McCain? He is losing it both mentally and physically, 30 years too late.

Which brings to the subject of what to cut for the country's multiple entitlement programs. I am all for cutting down medicare, it is just completely absurd to see a country that only caters to the dying batch leaving the infants and children uncovered. Every dollar of Medicaid cut has to be matched by the Medicare cut.

If someone can fund his own retirement and medical expenses when he is old, that means he has done something right. If he cannot, he fucked his life and we shall not be responsible. This country needs to learn about how to let people fail, let people go bankrupt, and let people die.

In what is by far the largest bank failure in U.S. history, federal regulators seized Washington Mutual Inc. and struck a deal to sell the bulk of its operations to J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.

The closing represents the demise of what once was the largest U.S. thrift but came to symbolize many of the worst excesses of the mortgage boom. Federal regulators said WaMu has suffered an exodus of $16.7 billion in deposits since Sept. 15, leaving the Seattle thrift "with insufficient liquidity to meet its obligations." As a result, WaMu was in "an unsafe and unsound condition to transact business," according to the Office of Thrift Supervision.

While the exact structure of the transaction wasn't immediately known, J.P. Morgan is expected to acquire Washington Mutual's deposits and branches, as well as other operations. The deal isn't expected to result in any hit to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.'s bank-insurance fund, according to a person familiar with the arrangement. Some analysts have worried that a WaMu failure could cost more than $20 billion.

Federal regulators have been heavily involved in orchestrating the transaction, which comes as WaMu grapples with its bad mortgage loans. Regulators were hoping to fend off a collapse of WaMu, which, with more than $300 billion in assets, would mark by far the largest banking failure in U.S. history.