patrick.net

RayAmerica says

Tenouncetrout says

For every Realtor that will pour over the details to report any negative attributes of a house, there are 1,000 realtors listing that house that has termites, a cracked foundation, demolished kitchen, and a roof on its last year, as a “Dream Home”.

And tell you it’s undervalued.

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

I've been sent a listing on a property that I actually saw first on Zillow, and went and looked at my self.
At first I liked the house, but a walk around the side of the house, I saw a 4 inch wide gaping crack, at the widest, and about 12 feet long, running from the foundation to the roof.

I've been sent this same property by every Realtor that sends me their list, and some Clown, or more than one actually, in Miami CL lists this same property every day.

I love nothing more than calling them out on it, when they call me. I accuse them of trying to sell me a house in need of being condemed. They defend them selves by saying they haven't personally been to the property and they are just listing what they find on the MLS. The same shit I can see for my Damn self.

If you're going to defend Realtors by pretending they are working in our best interest, then you'll have to first explain the benefit, of them playing onesies or twosies with the same freaking list I have access to!

Tenouncetrout says

At first I liked the house, but a walk around the side of the house, I saw a 4 inch wide gaping crack, at the widest, and about 12 feet long, running from the foundation to the roof.

What you are describing is a patent, not latent defect. Furthermore, if and when you purchase a property, you should always have an inspection contingency in your purchase agreement, with a clause that would allow you to walk away if you are not fully satisfied with the results of the inspection. Agents often times are required to market properties that have known defects. I have invested in a number of these properties over the course of my lifetime, beginning at the ripe old age of 21. I personally would rather find a property with a manageable defect associated with it because it will enable me to negotiate the price down. Another words, these properties actually present opportunities and are viewed as such by smart investors, provided of course you have the extra funds available to correct these defects, often for thousands less that the seller believes.

Liz Pendens says

RayAmerica says
Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

Liz Pendens says

Please cite the study that verifies your statistics.

Not quite making the statement that he would like to see Realtors work "for free" but you get the point:

Troy says

As a buyer I can say that most Realtor®s should douse themselves with gasoline and take up smoking.

RayAmerica says

Not quite making the statement that he would like to see Realtors work “for free” but you get the point:

No, Ray Ray, since you have made no point, no one "gets the point." Were you trying to tell us something, or were you simply proving that you know how to use the "quote" option on patnet?

elliemae says

No, Ray Ray, since you have made no point, no one “gets the point.” Were you trying to tell us something, or were you simply proving that you know how to use the “quote” option on patnet?

It's so nice having you follow me around like this. Do you follow others with this much obsession or am I just "special?"

Patrick,

Your website has been a great resource for Bay Areans over the years. I am most grateful that because I directed him to the common sense of this site in 2006, a relative of mine was talked out of venturing into a partnership on scooping up McMansion tract homes in Merced on the speculation that rich college professors would want to rent them. Not only that, after he read Patrick.net in 2006 and starting doing his own research on the subject on his own, independent of his inlaws, he let his inlaws buy out his positions in the other rentals they owned in the Stockton area at cost, at the time they probably figured he was really dumb for giving over to them so much of his "equity".

They're all under water now, foreclosed/short-sold/neg cash flow, etc. including one of them had to sell their home in The Fortress to move into one of those rentals that they couldn't get out of. They are his inlaws and they are civil with him, but they know that I was goading him to "get out" and they are not civil with me. But that's another story.

So I think that in 2006 Patrick.net was a triumph of the internet and blogging and common sense and education. Thank you.

That said, it is 2010 now and it looks an awful lot (and it is "AWFUL") like too many real estate apologists, some probably realtors masquerading as "investors", have hijacked your website and are using it at someone else's expense to distort the overall message that's on the home page. There are plenty of other places to go to get that RealEstate message, does it have to be here?

Well I hope that you are getting some profit from this website because you deserve it, but if you are not maybe it is time to do some censorship or even take it down.

Thank you for your public service,

Sybrib

RayAmerica says

It’s so nice having you follow me around like this. Do you follow others with this much obsession or am I just “special?”

I followed you around by replying to the post before you got here.

Tenouncetrout says

I love nothing more than calling them out on it, when they call me. I accuse them of trying to sell me a house in need of being condemed. They defend them selves by saying they haven’t personally been to the property and they are just listing what they find on the MLS. The same shit I can see for my Damn self.

This is a great example of realtors who regurgitates information without checking it out themselves. I've seen realtors with knowledge hide behind semantics. I had a conversation with a realtor about a subdivision with houses that were built on clay that's now separating. He was bragging that, unless the clay is separating under that exact home's foundation, he doesn't have to tell the prospective buyer.

RayAmerica says

errc …. congratulations on a brave post. I’m sure your Realtor is a fine person. Most people in here think Realtors should work for free and that profit is a dirty word.

i actually think the guy is somewhat of a knucklehead, he was someone i used to party with in those good old days. I am glad, he had enough common sense to listen to some of what i told him back in summer 07 while he was helping me close on my first house. My guess is, he doesn't feel that the sellers can get what they say they want/need, so maybe he doesn't want to put in the effort, but again i don't live in a bubbly coastal area, we had smaller steadier growth, and incomes support house prices in this area. What will the future hold, for jobs, is yet to be seen, because we have much industry and have kept UE quelled to reasonable numbers, rest of the nation/world considering. I have read patrick.net for 4+ years, and i am of the opinion that even when the credits expire, and even when interest rates begin their inevitable rise, that house prices won't fold (much) lower. Am in the "gov't will stop at nothing to keep the charade going" as evidenced by their reactions since post peak.

good luck to those of you still holding out on buying, in hopes of sanity in housing prices, what i have seen with my own eyes, is nothing short of insanity, and am not of the belief that any of these drug like remedies will do anything other then keep the users doped up. will begin shopping for my 2nd house here in the spring, so will root for further downward pressure, but , and it's only my non-university-indoctrinated opinion, we are and will be mulling around the bottom now and for a while, and the biggest change in deed holdership in the future will be prop taxes and cost to borrow

errc says

summer 07 while he was helping me close on my first house.

Just curious - are you upside down? Did your house hold its value?

I'm starting another thread asking this - I'm curious as to the status of patnet readers.

RayAmerica says

Tenouncetrout says

I saw a 4 inch wide gaping crack, at the widest, and about 12 feet long, running from the foundation to the roof.

What you are describing is a patent, not latent defect.

HUH?

RayAmerica says

I personally would rather find a property with a manageable defect associated with it because it will enable me to negotiate the price down. Another words, these properties actually present opportunities and are viewed as such by smart investors, provided of course you have the extra funds available to correct these defects, often for thousands less that the seller believes.

Arrrgh, a crack up the side of a building 4 inches wide and 12 feet high is a PROBLEM. Ray, God bless you if you'd get involved with that at 'ripe old age of 21', but the 'latent' defect is that something is moving. A lot. And you get no return on that kind of expensive fix. Our dinosaur friend was right to call the salesperson on it and walk away.

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.

Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized. Told her the exterior wall will be pulled away with it someday rather than keep it in place - she was quite nasty, damn near screamed I wasn't a civil engineer and don't know anything. Responded she actually didn't know what i do and needed to tell folks it was a significant problem... thought her head was going to explode.

She called me about 2 weeks after and asked if I was going to bid on it. Responded the bid would be so low due to needed underpinning, I was not even going to bother. Badgered the hell out of me to 'just make an offer' - so I cut the price in half. (This was 2004 or so). She said it was insulting hung up. The woman deserved to be water-boarded.

These Realtors (TM) want 6% of a sale price for house but in return want ZERO accountability. Hold themselves out as 'experts' but run for the hills when something comes down. Oh, defect with the house... Inspector's fault, I'm blind, and never promised anything. I'll 'pre-approve' you to the seller... hey I didn't hold a gun to your head when you signed the toxic liar loan through my mortgage broker I referred you to. It only goes up and it's different here... well you can't predict the future.

They should be paid the value they bring. Which is running an ad, opening a door and identifying the kitchen.

Liz Pendens says

Arrrgh, a crack up the side of a building 4 inches wide and 12 feet high is a PROBLEM. Ray, God bless you if you’d get involved with that at ‘ripe old age of 21′, but the ‘latent’ defect is that something is moving. A lot. And you get no return on that kind of expensive fix.

\Patent defects are "out in the open" and readily observable. Latent defects are hidden and not readily observable. Note that stated I prefer purchasing properties with MANAGABLE defects. Foundational problems, in almost every case, is something that I will not get involved with and was in no way implying that the property with the 4" gap was something he should buy.

Liz Pendens says

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.
Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized.

Why would you even ask a Realtor about a problem such as this one? Realtors have limited knowledge, IF ANY, regarding properties that they are showing you via the MLS. Furthermore, Realtors are not experts when it comes to construction, etc. If they are showing you properties that are listed with another brokerage, there's a good chance they're seeing the property for the first time, so their knowledge about the property won't be a whole lot better than yours. If there are structural, electrical, roof, etc. problems, ask a contractor to give you an estimate as to what the repair would cost. Realtors, in most cases, don't have a clue in these matters.

Liz Pendens says

Arrrgh, a crack up the side of a building 4 inches wide and 12 feet high is a PROBLEM.

What Ray failed to grasp is, that crack representing the whole front of this house about to fall into the front yard. He's not up on structural integrity, just up on how to market them efficiently. Which the Internet is doing a much better job at. Hell I can go out to location and ogle at the particulars my self.

SO RAY! tell us again my esteemed Realtor, Why are you even needed?

RayAmerica says

Liz Pendens says

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.

Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized.

Why would you even ask a Realtor about a problem such as this one?

Ray, Ray. I'm not trying to bait you, Dude. And I don't argue for the sake of it.

But isn't it pretty reasonable to expect chick-listing-agent, hawking a $600K property with metal wrapped around the chimney 6 inches away from the roof, to possibly provide a few details? Don't tell me the seller had no knowledge of any details to help forensic engineering for needed repairs.

That's the thing with these leeches - they are 'experts' when you question the amount of their commission, claim they know all the unfathomable 'intricacies' of selling a house that you supposedly shouldn't even try to market on your own. BTW, in NY they learn all this through a 40 hr. class that requires no HS diploma prerequisite.

Then they're suddenly clueless, unaccountable when it comes to actually producing something of value to facilitate a sale. They're focused on FAST, EASY COMMISSION. As big as they can make it. For as little work as possible.

Then they self congratulate themselves with titles like 'Million-dollar producer'. Get handed a framed 'award' embellished with Clip-Art, presented along with a $40 day-spa gift certificate during the weekday luncheon office ceremony at Applebee's.

Vomit.

Self-serving, oily leeches.

RayAmerica says

Liz Pendens says

Saw a house with the chimney separating from the house once - at least 5-6 inches away from the top of the roof. Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to wrap some metal round it and strap it to the house siding.
Asked the cockroach -oh I mean realtor about it, she said it was stabilized.

Why would you even ask a Realtor about a problem such as this one? Realtors have limited knowledge, IF ANY, regarding properties that they are showing you via the MLS. Furthermore, Realtors are not experts when it comes to construction, etc. If they are showing you properties that are listed with another brokerage, there’s a good chance they’re seeing the property for the first time, so their knowledge about the property won’t be a whole lot better than yours. If there are structural, electrical, roof, etc. problems, ask a contractor to give you an estimate as to what the repair would cost. Realtors, in most cases, don’t have a clue in these matters.

The OP is saying that he/she trusts the Realtor even tho he lives in another state; we're merely pointing out that our experience is that Realtors' jobs are to sell houses. Their salary depends upon someone buying the property, and I don't trust them because that makes it that they're working for themselves.

Liz Pendens' post can be a metaphor for so many things, - just like residential real estate is such a metaphor (my nouns in substitution)

Saw a(n) economy with the (borrowers) separating from the (sanity) once - at least 5-6 (times their income) away from the (reasonable amount) of (what they could afford). Could see blue sky through it. Someone decided to (bundle) some (tranches) round (those loans) and (sell) it to the (investors).
Asked the (Traitor) -oh I mean (The President) about it, (he) said it was (the Ownership Society).

You (lost) me.

Tenouncetrout says

What Ray failed to grasp is, that crack representing the whole front of this house about to fall into the front yard. He’s not up on structural integrity, just up on how to market them efficiently. Which the Internet is doing a much better job at. Hell I can go out to location and ogle at the particulars my self.

LOL. On any given day, as a buyer you can look at 10 properties that are listed and you'll find at least 2 or 3 real properties that will have problems that you won't want to deal with. The question I have is: once you saw the 4" crack, why were you upset? Obviously, this property isn't for you. The standard practice is to be an adult about it, scratch it off your list and move on to another. Another point to consider: if the defect is as bad as you claim, you won't be able to buy this property unless you have either cash, or you've secured a rehab loan that would enable you to finance the repairs (not the easiest loan to obtain in this market).

Ray you must not know me.
Your side stepping Bullshit is ineffective on me.
Your retort would be valid, except this listing is not being represented as a rehab special.
It's being sent to me to be considered for a certain Criteria I have given these Realtors.
So in that context, what they are doing is nothing short of Fraud, I wish there was a Government that gave a good greasy crank for me to report them to. But hell, they are along for this tug job, just as much as you are you Schmuck!

Tenouncetrout says

Schmuck

Actually, he'd be a schmegegge.

Realtors = middle aged women, little education and only job they can get to fuel their Prozac spending.
And we have way too many of them running around downtown Los Gatos. God their obnoxious!

Liz Pendens says

That’s the thing with these leeches - they are ‘experts’ when you question the amount of their commission, claim they know all the unfathomable ‘intricacies’ of selling a house that you supposedly shouldn’t even try to market on your own. BTW, in NY they learn all this through a 40 hr. class that requires no HS diploma prerequisite

Getting a real estate license in CA is one notch above a barbers.

thomas.wong1986 says

Getting a real estate license in CA is one notch above a barbers.

Full time barber/cosmetology schools take 9 months: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_education_and_training_is_required_to_become_a_barber

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070219095128AAr0JAB
Full time Realtor Courses can take as long as 67 hours.

elliemae says

Full time Realtor Courses can take as long as 67 hours.

True, but not really relevant.

Success for a realtor is performance based. I'm sure each person in their area has noticed that although most realtors seem to be of modest means, there are a few who consistently make a healthy 6 figure income. If you can sell you are successful, level of education has nothing to do with it. Now some highly educated people may be bothered by the high earning realtors. After all, when one puts all that effort into getting an engineering degree, one should make lots more dough than the non-graduate who cannot even sum moments about a point or calculate geometric dilution of precision.

And like most successful sales people, the key to success is charm. That is, the customer likes the salesman, and is convinced the saleman likes him back. Such a good buddy saleman will certainly consider this client special, and put the client's interest ahead of his own.

So Burritos, when you say this hard working realtor (who puts you first) says a house is overpriced or has a bad smell, are you sure she is not just steering you to houses that has a better commission split? Will she tell you about a good deal she sees that happens to be "For Sale by Owner?" Now it could be that she is a bit enlighted, and does not want to sell you a dog if that means losing your future business.

I do not dislike realtors, but it is important to realize who they are and the inherent conflict of interest when you deal with them.

elliemae says

Actually, he’d be a schmegegge.

Nice comment from the "I don't call people names" lady. LOL

Tenouncetrout says

So in that context, what they are doing is nothing short of Fraud, I wish there was a Government that gave a good greasy crank for me to report them to.

Tenouncetrout says

So in that context, what they are doing is nothing short of Fraud, I wish there was a Government that gave a good greasy crank for me to report them to.

There is: contact the real estate commission in your state. Be prepared for them to respond with a good laugh. Look up the meaning of the word "fraud." What happened to you isn't fraud. But of course, you won't agree. What you don't know is that information available in the MLS typically has nothing in it regarding the condition of the property. That's why you have to VISIT the property for yourself. Your ranting in here sounds like a tempestuous little child that has been wronged, when in fact you haven’t been wronged at all. You only think you’ve been. Someone needs to tell you this for your own good: if this is the type of thing that gets you all riled up, you need to chill out a little and get a life.

Duh Mr. Freakin Obvious, so what you are effectively telling me, is you bring nothing to the home buying equation, other than sending me a link I found before you did. If I can find these homes, go look at them and decide if I want them or not. They why can't I contact the Selling agent direct? Why do we need two Realtors?

Why do we even need "ONE", with the internet, making sure you get your listing to a larger audience.
The internet is 1000% more efficient than a team of Realtors could ever be. Even City tax records are on line. I can find leins, tax troubles, I have to inspect my self. In fact with the invention of the Internet, we are doing 100% of Realtors job. The only work you have to do is sweat your bills, until a sucker calls for you, because the system is so rigged now we have to.

I wouldn't be surprised if either one of two things happens.
People start recognizing the ridiculousness of having a Realtor when the internet makes them redundant. There will be a call to review how RE is sold. Especially as more and more homeowners have to continue shaving value off their still over inflated houses. When the Governments interference in the free market stops. They are not going to be so happy having dead weight ridding the Coat tail, when they can list a house them selves, or at least demand the ability to do so.

But I suspect by that time, the NAR will go to Washington and give Congress a Hand-job, to get them to protect MLS listings from the internet from our prying eyes. It's hard for the Wizard to control the effect, when every one can see.

elliemae says

Sure, his time is worth more. But he’s investing money, sight unseen, based on someone who only gets paid if he buys something. And ultimately, she’s not liable if she’s wrong about something and he’s stuck with a negligible asset.
I’m glad he likes his realtor and that he’s happy. Maybe she is awesome. I actually helped someone about a week ago to list his house in another state. He’s not able to travel and can’t do it himself. There’s no family to help him out. But do I trust realtors as a group? Hell no.

It would take a prohibitive amount of time, effort and money for me to fly out there back and forth to check out every property I might consider. Most of these properties are either short sales or bank owned and my going out there doesn't guarantee me a sale. I know that most here would advise against 99% all RE investments and 110% of all RE investments outside of your state. I understand the buying sight unseen perspective. But I have over a million bucks in in stocks and mutual funds. I've never visited any of these companies or spoke to any fund managers or CEOs. I doubt Steve Jobs would return my email if I had a question about why the stock is doing this or that. Good thing I bought it in 1997 without visiting the headquarters. Maybe that's foolish too. I guess I'm a tool for not spending all my time on DD for all my investments. So with my RE investments, I'm glad I can have instant feedback from my realtor and property manager whenever I have a question or need an issue/problem managed. This gives me a lot of free time, time I can spend with my toddler and newborn.

Last year my wife and I were looking for a house to purchase (this was before I snapped out of the "Home Ownership Trance") . I got a Realtor recommendation from an acquaintance.

She was very nice. She asked what areas we were looking into and what we were looking for in a home. She gave us all the listings in nice organized packets and would chauffeur us around to show the properties. She did a good job picking houses that fit our taste. She gave us good information on taxes. She was never pushy and seemed very honest.

But that's all she really did. I actually already knew what the tax rates were. She couldn't answer any specifics about the properties other than what was on the sheet or what was right in front of us already. I was actually much more familiar with the area than she was (I had to guide her to the correct streets many times). The houses she did pick for us, I already saw online many times. I asked her questions about the area that I already knew, but she wasn't able to answer them.

Now finding the properties and preparing all the information for us to review is certainly work. Driving us around was nice too. But is it worth 3% of the purchase price (over 3 grand in our case)? No way.

In the end, I realized that I did not have to be a home-owner and be a debt slave (thanks to this site). I'm now renting a decent house in the same area for much less than what I would be paying for a mortgage and taxes. But my experience with the Realtor was a good learning experience. I realized I don't need one as a buyer, especially in an area I'm familiar with.

Burritos' realtor is the proverbial exception that proves the rule: You should generally not trust any realtor.

I'm always surprised by people who do not understand the difference between "there exists" and "for all", in the mathematical sense. These may be strange concepts if you have not heard of them, but they are also intuitive. To wit:

Just because there exists ONE realtor that has not screwed you, it does not imply that ALL realtors will not screw you. There is no logical connection between the two. And in fact, the evidence is that most realtors will screw you if that is what it takes to earn a commission.

The San Diego fake-runaway-Prius guy was, you guessed it, a realtor.
At least he probably wasn't smug (obscure joke alert).

----

Submitted by FormerOwner on March 12, 2010 - 11:56pm

"We did some public records searches (thanks to the help of Gawker's John Cook) and found Sikes and his wife Patty found themselves, like many in the California real estate business, on the bursting side of the real estate bubble last year. The two declared bankruptcy in June of 2008 and have a combined liability of over $700,000 dollars in debt."

http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt...

Another example of why only a realtor can be trusted to help you make the biggest purchase of your life!

---

elliemae says

thomas.wong1986 says

Getting a real estate license in CA is one notch above a barbers.

Full time barber/cosmetology schools take 9 months: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_education_and_training_is_required_to_become_a_barber
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070219095128AAr0JAB
Full time Realtor Courses can take as long as 67 hours.

HeadSet says

True, but not really relevant.

It was relevent to the comment about barbers.

I do realize that a realtor's pay is performance-based. I get it that they only make money when they sell a property. However, they aren't marketing professionals IMHO. They're opportunists. They list a home, then sit waiting for someone to buy it. They also drive people around, help them write offers on pre-printed forms and refer them to lawyers if they need legal advice, inspectors for inspections, and title companies for closing. I've yet to meet a realtor who is worth paying the 6% fee for this service when I can make phone calls myself.

In the case of Burritos, he's satisfied with his purchases and trusts his realtor - but he posted this on a housing crash board that is decidedly anti-realtor. He started by saying, "There’s been a lot of bashing of realtors on this board and often justly so."

We should all "stick it" to the realtors by taking a weekend class and getting our own realtor license and earning the 6% ourselves ! We all have computers and cell phones, what do we need realtors for ?

Power to the People !

End The Fed.

^ I took the first class in the sequence last year at a CC. Reasonably useful, but it's probably more time efficient just taking the classes online.

The salesperson license requirements have been upped since 2006, now you need 3 courses to sit for the test.
The broker's license is 8 courses and if you have a 4-year degree you don't need salesperson experience.

AFAICT just being a salesperson is kinda useless, you still need to work under a broker, which unless you know someone isn't free.

For buying, I would think the best strategy to save the realtor® markup is to contact the owner directly and tell him you will make a binding offer after his current listing agreement expires. Realtors® can only "earn" commissions off of the potential victims they name upon contract termination.

justme says

The San Diego fake-runaway-Prius guy was, you guessed it, a realtor.

At least he probably wasn’t smug (obscure joke alert).

Bwhahahahahahahaahahahahahahaah!!!! Good one!

—-
Submitted by FormerOwner on March 12, 2010 - 11:56pm
“We did some public records searches (thanks to the help of Gawker’s John Cook) and found Sikes and his wife Patty found themselves, like many in the California real estate business, on the bursting side of the real estate bubble last year. The two declared bankruptcy in June of 2008 and have a combined liability of over $700,000 dollars in debt.”
http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt…
Another example of why only a realtor can be trusted to help you make the biggest purchase of your life!
—

elliemae says

elliemae says

thomas.wong1986 says

Getting a real estate license in CA is one notch above a barbers.

Full time barber/cosmetology schools take 9 months: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_education_and_training_is_required_to_become_a_barber

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070219095128AAr0JAB

Full time Realtor Courses can take as long as 67 hours.

HeadSet says

True, but not really relevant.

It was relevent to the comment about barbers.
I do realize that a realtor’s pay is performance-based. I get it that they only make money when they sell a property. However, they aren’t marketing professionals IMHO. They’re opportunists. They list a home, then sit waiting for someone to buy it. They also drive people around, help them write offers on pre-printed forms and refer them to lawyers if they need legal advice, inspectors for inspections, and title companies for closing. I’ve yet to meet a realtor who is worth paying the 6% fee for this service when I can make phone calls myself...

There is another creature on Earth that hunts the same way that RealWhores do... It's called a spider.