patrick.net

I'd be more worried about her having fun. You can bust your hump and get a free ride to college but then in teh real world all the jobs go offshore anyways or some clueless mgr hries based on bill rate regardless of education or skill. I'm just saying.

BTW, my friend's friend move his kids to a rural derelict area in 10th and 11th or so. I think both then got full rides for being the best in their area. The area is very nice scenically but not "progressive" like SF. This was "back east'. I can't reveal the location because I think its a superb idea I might use. :-)

By the way, I've heard from many people that the colleges in India are better than MIT; so, maybe they'd give you a scholarship to get some diversity there. ;-) But, really, why bother, according to videos on YouTube, there are 150M people in India who are smarter than anyone in the USA. Better just to give up now and go into government. My real point is smarts are cheap. I like what one person said, "Everyone has an unfair advantage; but most of us go through life never knowing what ours is".

More seriously though, wealth is based on who you know mostly. If your kid goes to school with some rich kids they might fund her venture later in life. It takes money to make money. OTOH, a lot of priveleged kids blow their brains out. If you don't have a good grasp on life and see some suffering then you probably won't know how good you have it or appreciate your life.

SubOink says

In my opinion, No Brainer - Buy where you can send them to great public school. Instead, start putting the money for private school in a college fund. When they go to college in 15 years, you’ll have a nice fund for that.
Makes sense to me. We just did exactly that.
The tax break is not a myth. Prop Tax + Interest is a deduction. Period. Not a myth. A myth is what all these haters here have to say. Just talk to an accountant, they’ll tell you exactly.

With no positive equity in sight it is a myth!

We're in the same situation. We have a 2.5 year old and a .5 year old. We bought in 94062 area of Redwood City, for Roy Cloud. There are houses there in the 850k range. The highschool is nothing to write home about, but it's not terrible (Woodside) but having the great grade-middle school and parents caring about their education should get them started off on the right foot, and we can deal with private highschool if we have to. Houses in this area ought to be around 650k range, and we even saw a few with not-nice lots sell in that range.

There are some areas of Redwood City that are getting gentrified, and I think it is a good buy, the same goes for part of East Palo Alto. If you buy along the western foothills, even if there are some currently blue collar neighborhoods, I think over time, they will be lifted by the general wealth concentrated along the corridor, which will be havens of safety, school, general environment etc. If I am buying today, then I will buy mediocre areas adjacent to expensive neighborhoods, and that is how Sunnyvale and Mountain View got lifted.

I remember years ago part of Redwood City along the foothills being quite undesirable because they are a part of, well, Redwood City. But today, this area has become to be known as Emerald Hills and dotted with million+ houses. I'd expect the same to happen to western Redwood City fairly soon. Another area with high potential is Campbell bordering Los Gatos and Saratoga, high school is mediocre for the time being, but give it another decade, I'd expect it to perform at the same level as Saratoga and LG. My physical therapist graduated from Lynbrook when it was still a nobody school about 20 years ago, and she said back then parents who couldn't afford Cupertino went to Lynbrook and built it to what it is now.

One concern that I wrestled with in my head was 10 years from now, there is no guarantee any public school would be satisfactory, so I have been debating whether or not to even buy in a good district.
That's a very good point which I've written about before. For a district to keep class sizes low and support diverse programming in the face of cuts from the state, they will rely on local parcel taxes. In districts with both commercial and residential, these parcel taxes will be lower for the individual homeowner. In a city like Piedmont in the East Bay, they will be higher as the city consists mostly of residential housing stock.

EBGuy,

this is a good point, because Los Altos residents are notoriously known to be saddled with a higher tax than neighboring Cupertino and Palo Alto precisely due to its lack of commercial businesses. I would assume Saratoga has the same problems.

However, buying in a good district has more to do with the profile of the residents than the schools. School performance is a product of the profile of residents. Has anyone ever seen a good school coming out of a bad, crime ridden neighborhood. If you plot a map of the best public schools in the Bay Area, it is very easy to spot a pattern, they are all along the western or eastern foothills.

bearishbull,

if you can afford 95124 and 95120, go there first, because these neighborhoods will be lifted much faster than Redwood City and Campbell. In fact, 95120 has already gotten quite expensive, particularly in the last decade. My wife who grew up here remembered 95120 as the boonies and the property price there didn't move for many years until about 10 years ago. 95120 is also much newer, so you don't have the eye sore of older neighborhoods, but the racial mix of 95120 won't as diverse as 95124, and I predict it will quickly become another Chindian neighborhood like Cupertino. 95124 will be more multi-cultural.

Almaden is like the new place to be for a lot of Chinese and Indian families because Leland High has already passed 900 API and it is still relatively affordable. So 95120 is seen as a steal.

Willow Glen is an area that I don't understand. It's got the charm and character and money, but the public schools remain crappy throughout the years, maybe all Willow Glen residents send their kids to private schools?

I am Chinese too, but I am afraid to be living in a neighborhood with too many first gen Chinese immigrants, which I am as well. The reason being, I know how hard we as a group can save and how academically demanding we can be with our kids, I don't want to be a Tiger dad whipping my kids' ass against other Tiger dads and moms. But geographically speaking, south of 85 is golden, anything that gets you as close as possible to the foothill is prime location. So if you are going to be in this area for a long time, stay south of 85 if you can, and the price is less likely to soften. If not, Cambrian will stretch your budget more.

If you have seen any house related news, you will know there are more bad news than good.
If you have been actively going to open houses, and keeping tabs...you will notice that houses are sitting longer, it is not like back in those days where the buyer had to buy "AS IS", and house went pending the day after the listing.

I would agree with NejatK

chip_designer : Totally on the money. If I could have avoided buying for longer, I would have. I wound up buying because a lowball I was sure would be dismissed got accepted. Whoops. I was lowballing to make the wife happy. Now I'm stuck exactly where I'd like to be stuck, but still stuck owning a house. 2012 was my original guess for when the bottom would be in, but it looks like it may take a year or two longer.

Rent if you can get away with it. If you've got the wife cracking the whip, lowball and hope for rejection letters. :)

Menya,
Your child is only 2. You can wait 3~4 years then buy. the downside risk is high and upside (appreciation) is slim to none.

sfbubblebuyer says

2012 was my original guess for when the bottom would be in, but it looks like it may take a year or two longer.

It will be a heck of leg down before 2012 as Debt Forgiveness Expires at 2012 year end.

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=179414,00.html

Up to $2 million of forgiven debt is eligible for this exclusion ($1 million if married filing separately). The exclusion does not apply if the discharge is due to services performed for the lender or any other reason not directly related to a decline in the home’s value or the taxpayer’s financial condition

OO says

95120 is also much newer, so you don’t have the eye sore of older neighborhoods, but the racial mix of 95120 won’t as diverse as 95124, and I predict it will quickly become another Chindian neighborhood like Cupertino. 95124 will be more multi-cultural.

Doing what, and working where ?

Vanishing Public Companies Lead To The Incredible Shrinking Silicon Valley

That’s not just less than the dot-com era, that’s well below the 315 public companies the valley had in 1994 when the Mercury News started keeping track.

chip_designer says

cloud13 says

I would say again, Look in 95124 - It’s a great neighbourhood and it’s not overpriced.

yes, indeed.

No doubt 95124 is a nice school district. I have been looking for house in this area for 5 years. To get a nice house in this area is tricky because you have to avoid the high voltage power line and underground gas pipeline. When San Bruno gas pipeline burst last year, I found out that the entire 95124 (especially cambrian school district) is surrounded by underground gas pipeline.

So, I decided to bought my house in Campbell instead.

Jeremy Lim says

I found out that the entire 95124 (especially cambrian school district) is surrounded by underground gas pipeline.

We all have underground piplines in all cities in all states. Where else do you put it.

I looked for years in 95124 and know every street in and out , so here is my take on it.

I bought near houge park , this area is marked as free zone-1 on leigh high school map.
So our high school is going to be Leigh high and elementary would be Farnham elementary and then the middle school is Price Charter middle.
Farnham elementary is the only school in 95124 whcih offers after day care until 5:00 PM (great for working parents) and it cost only $200 per day.
There is a YMCA whcih all the kids access for free who goto Farnham and ofcourse the API is 858.
One of my neighbour who is a director in Apple sends his 3 kids there and his wife volunteers in Farnham (prolly both of them don't have to work anymor :-) ).
There are some SJPD cops who send their kids to Farnham. To me After Day Care was very important because both of us are working parents.

So coming back to my original point, Look at Leigh High School's map and buy in Free Zone-1, doing this you won't have to pay too much for south of 85 and your kid will still attend the Leigh high school. Another good thing about Free Zone-1 is that All the homes here have very large lots ( around 9000 sq feet)

It doesn't matter. Either your kid has it or they don't. You can make yourself go broke paying for good schools, doesn't mean they will be a good student or successful.

My wife finally agrees with me on that (took her 16 years to though)

My kid has been to private, public-magnet, higher learning SAS, now a REALLY fancy boarding school on the west coast... last year he got suspended for drugs. He get's drug tested at school now... not sure if his scholarship will hold up next year, which means he's out because I'm not paying full amount $45,000 for high school (are you crazy?)

Truth is he was a great kid (still is but I'm biased)... but he hit teenager at 100mph and went off the rails. Now he's pretty lost and doesn't know what to do etc... Not going to bore you with my life...

But it shows, amazing kids come out of shitty schools and dullards exit private expensive ones. I believe the onus falls on me as the parent to create a viable seed, not the school. So something went wrong there. I went to public schools all my life and have done fairly well for myself. I look at my kid and he's had it jammy... great schools all the way down the line. Problem is we (wife and I) have created a being that I can't really relate to. His experience and mine were worlds apart and the truth is I don't think it's been that beneficial.

So my advice is... try put your kid through the same experience you went through, it will make you closer, you'll have the same values and hey... if you can afford all the things mentioned above... the same experience should set them up in the same position come later life. Options are good.

cloud13 says

Farnham elementary is the only school in 95124 whcih offers after day care until 5:00 PM (great for working parents) and it cost only $200 per day

$ 200 per day ??!!!

I wasn't going to bother with this thread but here I go ....

Forget high school completely. This is not our HS anymore. The 'American Graffiti' era is over; one can't waste those years going fishing, hanging out at diners, or drag racing with pals. Today's world is about FaceBook bullying and dysfunctional behaviors.

Homeschool your kids. Have them take college classes part-time, then full time, and either transfer into a regular BS/BA program (junior yr), circa age 17, or one of the continuing ed programs (at even top tier schools have these); many schools confer BS/BA degrees in nontrad ways.

Now, instead of looking into the standard way, (see aforementioned BS/BA completion path), look at condensed postgrad programs in pharmacy, nursing, physician's assistant, or some other licensed field. This way, your kids will be clearly in a line of employment by ages 20-22, instead of just another degree holder. And for medicine/law, really, one needs to rock the MCAT/LSAT more than anything else.

Traditional brand name colleges are really there for fields like let's say management consulting or finance where recruiters specifically only pick up candidates from let's say Univ of Chicago, Columbia, Stanford undergrad for junior analyst positions. If you child wants to do the above, he/she needs to do high school on his own, finish a part-time BA (reduced costs), & transfer to a 1-2 yr post-grad program at Wharton, London Univ, or an MS program at Univ of Chicago but at a relatively early age, like 20 or 21. This shaves off 2+ years of tuition and costs and still suffices for those elitist fields which require the *pedigree* (but no actual knowledge). Another way, of course, is to start one's own hedge fund but that's another story.

Fisk says

cloud13 says

Farnham elementary is the only school in 95124 whcih offers after day care until 5:00 PM (great for working parents) and it cost only $200 per day

$ 200 per day ??!!!

should be a month. Or everyone will be sending their kids to private schools. In the Bay Area, the only advantage of private school vs public school is that you don't have to pay for after-school, which is a saving in itself. The other more subtle advantage is networking among parents, but you have to belong to the same class (for elite private schools). Otherwise, your kid is gonna come home from PBS asking why you are not taking them to a long weekend ski vacation to the Alps like Jimmy's parents.

just don't forget that in areas like when you have a super high mortage and a super high taxes you will hit AMT and not be able to take the deduction. Is the additional interest you will be paying all those years really that much more than the price of private schools (one person wrote that you will get the extra $250K back, but you won't get the interest back and the interest will end up being another $250K and you may not be able to deduct it.
I am in a similiar financial situation to yours and live in Fairfield county and deciding if we should pay $200K more for a house in a nicer town than we live in or do private high school once the kids get there, but the fact is that I won't be able to deduct all the mortage additional mortage interest since we already hit AMT with our current smaller mortage.
I'm in the same boat as you, just pointing out that the finances are not as black and white as some of the other comments indicated.

Really not sure about the doctor route for my kids' generation. I will definitely live to see the collapse of our Healthcare system, which means, the highest earning doctors of the world will be in for a big shakeup. Just FYI, other developed countries pay their doctors significantly less. For example, Australian internists only make $80-100K a year, and their specialists rarely make more than $500K, UK doctors make slightly more, but definitely not in the league of ours.

Our medical school training system is set up in expectation of big pay down the road. Other countries don't have medical schools, if you follow the UK system, you can finish a 5-year medical degree at undergrad level and proceed right to residency. Same for law school, 3 years at undergrad level. So if our doctors and lawyers are going to make significantly less in the future, the whole medical school/ law school system will collapse as well.

Well, we just put an offer on a house in 95124. Fammatre elementary, Ida Price middle, Branham high. It's come to about $335/sq foot. Great house, average lot (6K), decent street (off of Leigh).

WHAT HAVE WE DONE????????????????????? :) WOAHHHHHHHHHH

Yay Yay..........Good to know that

OO says

So if our doctors and lawyers are going to make significantly less in the future, the whole medical school/ law school system will collapse as well.

Medical Tourism are already taking place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism

Employer-sponsored health care in the US
Some US employers have begun exploring medical travel programs as a way to cut employee health care costs. Such proposals have raised stormy debates between employers and trade unions representing workers, with one union stating that it deplored the "shocking new approach" of offering employees overseas treatment in return for a share of the company's savings. The unions also raise the issues of legal liability should something go wrong, and potential job losses in the US health care industry if treatment is outsourced.

Employers may offer incentives such as paying for air travel and waiving out-of-pocket expenses for care outside of the US. For example, in January 2008, Hannaford Bros., a supermarket chain based in Maine, began paying the entire medical bill for employees to travel to Singapore for hip and knee replacements, including travel for the patient and companion.[41] Medical travel packages can integrate with all types of health insurance, including limited benefit plans,[42] preferred provider organizations and high deductible health plans.

In 2000 Blue Shield of California began the United States' first cross border health plan. Patients in California could travel to one of the three certified hospitals in Mexico for treatment under California Blue Shield.[43] In 2007, a subsidiary of BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina, Companion Global Healthcare, teamed up with hospitals in Thailand, Singapore, Turkey, Ireland, Costa Rica and India.

bearishbull,
I, My realtor and my wife have called Campbell High School district many times and Leigh High school is the homeschool for FreeZone-1 and Leigh High is the best high school in Campbell union high- there is no expiration date :-).

Also Farnham elementary charges only $10 per day ,or about $200 per month. And there are many parents who just volunteer there.
And Comeon guys elementary school kids are aged 5 to 10, those are just kids , not prone to high energy levels which causes teenagers to vandalize and stuff..
So if you keep your high school good, and elementary school more than 800 API, in my mind you are Rocking and Roling already.

Good choice. Branham. Congratulations.

bearishbull says

I assure you that if your kid is sharp, it will be because of your parenting and not so much a function of the school. A good school might make up for a lazy parent, but a good parent can make up for anything. I think if your child finds good friends with good parents, then it will rub off on your child and vice versa. Make every effort to do this no matter what school your child goes to. Kids who go to private schools are sometimes troublemakers too.

You, sir, are one smart cookie... no use in beating your head against the wall trying to get a brainwashed pleb to realize they are wrong.

What is written below is not for SF Ace- it is for those that can see reality.

SF Ace said:

Here’s mine whatever it’s worth. (WITH REGARD TO SCHOOLING>>>)

* Employers are a lot pickier now than 10 years ago. 10 years ago, medicore education credential led to a decent start and subsequently you can do the right things to advance in your career. Today, that mediocre credentials don’t even get a look at the resume screener. In 10-20 years, I expect things to be even more competitive. Don’t look at your 40 something colleague going to a second tier college as inspiration, every Google and Facebook recent gard employees are Ivy League, MIT caliber credentials with rare exceptions. This is going to spill over to other major corporations and professional firms doing high level work.

HIGH LEVEL WORK= "ripping off the taxpayers"

* the fallback option like working for the government or union would not be anywhere as lucrative as before.

FALLBACK OPTION= "only stoopid people fallback..." I chose to leave the private side for stability during the peak. Do you have any clue as to how many overqualified unemployed people are looking for that "fallback" position right now? Fallback is a derogatory remark and I'll return the favor. YOU ARE DENSE.

* A capitalistic society creates winners and losers. Winners win because they have drive, determination, courage and some luck. From the persepctive, I want to train my kids to have drive, courage and determination and take on challenges that are a little more than they can handle.

Sure- right before your offspring steps in front of that alt form of transpo on rails... then a new tune will be sung.

* From a personal development perspective, It’s better to be the worst in the peer group than the best in the peer group. You learn nothing from people who are below you but everything from someone with more success.

I have learned more from those below me BY FAR than by anyone of these "supposed" best in their peer group individuals. Keep looking up whilst making that effort to see around the boot on your face by that peer you so highly regard. You learn nothing from people who are below you? I've learned to blow glass (both boro and soft), how to frame pictures, construction, and how to get my hands on software so overpriced I couldn't get my hands on it but through illegal means. Then I TAUGHT MYSELF how to use it instead of paying for a college course desgined to help only the slowest in the room. All done while attending a lowly state college at 15-22 credits a quarter AND WORKING 3 PART TIME JOBS.

SF ACE needs a head shrink. Not a psycologist- someone to actually shrink his self imposed oversized head.

Let's teach our children how fiat money really works, what a home should actually cost based on income, that entertainment on HDTV is not how you should aspire to live your life, to get involved in politics and call out those that serve only the rich, how to grow their own food, to get involved within their community and help serve those who are less fortunate (those low life peers that SF Ace mentioned), and the courage to stomp the snot out of those attemping to chain our futures through debt and inflation.

NOT ONE OF THESE ISSUES IS EVEN MENTIONED IN ANY FORM OF EDUCATION I'VE BEEN PRIVY TO.

Shizo

This is a very interesting subject. It has nothing to do with being racist as few people have mentioned in the post. However, I believe that segregation of kids to neighborhood schools is more racist than anything else. It is racism based on "Class". Brilliant kids from poor neighborhoods are denied entry into the rich neighborhoods schools.

Let's look at the facts closely:

The public education system is consistently going down in California over years due to budget cuts and I am more than sure that it will continue its downward spiral. This is due to the fact that the politicians do not regard public education as a key to America's survival. The politicians send their kids to private schools and do not feel the pain that average American families have to go through.

Now back to my feedback. I have not bought a house and I don't want to buy a house, and it has nothing to do with a good or bad neighborhood, or mortgage tax deductions (which is a wrong thing), or a sense of security. House buying brings nothing but insecurity in life – house in the US is not yours until you completely pay it off – and until it is not yours Banks are the real owners. You get stuck in a bad job and want to continue because the liability of the house. You dare to take a risk because of the same thing.

My personal income is the same as your combined home income. My wife does not work because she is a stay home mom taking care of the kids and working on their future. She has been doing it since my salary was less than 75% of what I am making today and we will continue this.

I will send all my kids to private schools and not only that I will also work on them to make them a good kid, a good citizen and a successful person. It will cost me around $300K + over 12 years and I am looking forward to it. I am probably never so sure about anything in life but getting my kids the best education money can buy. If you can get the same at a public school (I doubt it even in the best of the best neighborhoods of California) then go for it.

At the end of the day you need to sit down with your spouse and go over the priorities and make the decision and I am sure you will be able to make the decision.

Good Luck!

Offer accepted. No idea if this is a mistake or not, but the house is beautiful and being in it will make us happy. So the kiddo will go to very solid Cambrian elemntary and middle school. We are excited.

Congrats Menya.

congrats Menya, you made the right move.

Syphilis says

danacebi says

protip: being a good parent is best.

won’t happen.

being a good parent is hard.

buying an overpriced house in a good school district and letting the teachers take care of the kids is easier.
the sheeple have been brainwashed into thinking good schools are the answer to everything.

just like the sheeple were brainwashed into thinking home prices couldn’t go down.
what’s funny is that parents are so motivated to have “successful” kids, they have forgotten that raising your kid to care about people, have a sense of humor, a good attitude and great work ethic costs nothing.
these well-adjusted kids will have a much happier life than the over achieving, over ambitious alpha-dogs caught in the rat race of keeping up with the Jones’.

jokes on them.

Love your comment. Right on! Plus, some kids are sensitive souls and won't be able to handle the high pressure to achieve. What if they don't even want to go to college or want to be artists or healers/free spirits? There is room for us all out there :-)

This is not the Mandarin States of America. Nor is it the Brahmin States of America. Nor is it the API Test Score States of Cupertino Schools America.

This is the United States of America.

It sounds like OO may call himself Chinese, but he sounds more like an American Dad to me.

I pasted below what can happen when Tiger Parents act like Tiger Parents to their American kids. There's also several versions of the story along the CalTrain tracks near Gunn High School (Palo Alto).

OO says

I am Chinese too, but I am afraid to be living in a neighborhood with too many first gen Chinese immigrants, which I am as well. The reason being, I know how hard we as a group can save and how academically demanding we can be with our kids, I don’t want to be a Tiger dad whipping my kids’ ass against other Tiger dads and moms.

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=5662

Sgt. Paul Henry outlined the evidence in support of the suicide conclusion at a press conference Thursday morning but he said police do not know why the 23-year-old graduate student took her life. He said no one interviewed reported her stressed or depressed and there was no indication she was pregnant.

Yitong Zhou, May's father, insisted last week his daughter was murdered and he said an autopsy in May arranged by his family in San Diego disclosed blunt force trauma to her head and extremities.

An autopsy by Dr. Kelly Arthur of the Sonoma County coroner's office found no outward signs of trauma to Zhou's body and toxicology test results determined Zhou had 6.1 milligrams per liter of diphenhydramine, the active ingredient in over-the-counter sleep medication in her system, Henry said.

To all my friends who are sitting on the Fence and are looking in Cambrian.

( Insider info)
This is one heck of a home,

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/15111-Stratford-Dr-95124/home/1333989

This guy has spent money on the home like anything

Years ago when my kid was little, we moved to San Leandro for the schools. By the time he was in 4th grade, the schools weren't so good anymore. We moved to Piedmont for 5th grade. Piedmont schools are among the best in the state. The city has insane property values and insane property taxes. We rented.

And fwiw, the are fair number of people in Piedmont who end up sending their kids to private school anyway.

PasadenaNative says

Right on! Plus, some kids are sensitive souls and won’t be able to handle the high pressure to achieve.

Vodka is a choice of stress relief in Cupertino.

Menya says

Offer accepted. No idea if this is a mistake or not, but the house is beautiful and being in it will make us happy. So the kiddo will go to very solid Cambrian elemntary and middle school. We are excited.

You are lucky, you did not try anywhere in 95014 or 95129. The market is damn hot that all the house here seem to fly in 1 day, with 80-100K over asking. Obviously, the houses are the standard pieces of crap - 1950's issue. minimal to no upgrades.

Look at this: http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1042-Corvette-Dr-95129/home/794170

Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Apr 05, 2011 Sold (Public Records) $956,000 -- Public Records
Apr 05, 2011 Sold (MLS) (Sold) $956,000 -- Inactive MLSListings #81108395
Mar 05, 2011 Pending (Pending (Do Not Show)) -- -- Inactive MLSListings #81108395
Feb 24, 2011 Listed (Active) $878,000 -- Inactive MLSListings #81108395

desibaba says

Look at this

Or this... low 200s to low 800s (3x) in 10 years... good luck with that one.
Did school scores go up as much as well ? Naaaaa! your dreaming, LOL!

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Jose/1132-Miller-Ave-95129/home/1076090

Property History for 1132 MILLER Ave

Date Event Price Appreciation Source
Apr 14, 2011 Sold (MLS) (Sold) $920,000 --
Mar 23, 2011 Pending (Pending Without Release)
Mar 16, 2011 Listed (Active)
Feb 23, 2006 Sold (Public Records) $853,000 13.0%/yr Public Records
Jun 23, 1995 Sold (Public Records) $231,000 -- Public Records