patrick.net

mdovell says

I'll admit I *tried* to read one of his books. It isn't so much what he is trying to say but how he is saying it. If you took Pat Buchanan and had him drop out of high school and kick him in the groin well that's Savage.

I don't think the GOP will go away but it has to really drop the Christian Right/Religious Right to make any real gains.

Likewise the democrats have to admit they pretty much dropped the unions off years ago.

The GOP doesn't need to make any gains because they now own, thanks to the adoption of gay marriage into the Democratic platform, all of the south and most of the states in the midwest except Minnesota and Illinois.

Here again, this is exactly the point John Fund was trying to make Tuesday night. All these people are sitting in the audience hand wringing about the left wing and he basically shrugged his shoulders and said the real action in the media is all conservative: blogs, talk radio, Fox News, etc. It's the same thing I've been saying for a little over two years.

rootvg says

he GOP doesn't need to make any gains because they now own, thanks to the adoption of gay marriage into the Democratic platform, all of the south

Demographics will change that, Texas may well be Democratic again (not this time) due to Hispanic growth. The Republicans have narrowed the demographics of their party so much that they, without changes that will break up the party, will be unable to elect a President fairly soon.

rdm says

rootvg says

he GOP doesn't need to make any gains because they now own, thanks to the adoption of gay marriage into the Democratic platform, all of the south

Demographics will change that, Texas may well be Democratic again (not this time) due to Hispanic growth. The Republicans have narrowed the demographics of their party so much that they, without changes that will break up the party, will be unable to elect a President fairly soon.

It won't change it in our lifetime, and I'm not yet fifty.

Even so, that brand of Democrat will be more of a Truman Kennedy style and those folks generally aren't welcomed into the mainstream of modern Democrat party politics.

1 out of 320,000,000.
and this has one iota of significance because......

leo707 says

So, yeah it has been my experience that at least one person out there takes Savage seriously.

rootvg says

The GOP doesn't need to make any gains because they now own, thanks to the adoption of gay marriage into the Democratic platform, all of the south and most of the states in the midwest except Minnesota and Illinois.

The GOP is fairly weak in the Midwest now at the presidential level. Iowa, even though it's pretty much all white and largely rural, is almost a for sure win for Obama. Likewise, Romney's a big dog in Michigan and Wisconsin, even though his campaign has big ties to those states.

The Tea Party in the South is just nuts. They're making the GOP unpalatable to people on the coasts, and small town/rural folk in the Midwest are not nearly as nuts as the Southern Tea Party in general...so the GOP risks losing them if some breakoff party of moderate GOP happens.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

It's the only way we can be certain they're dead.

Incineration works better

rootvg says

The parallels between Carter and Obama are stunning.

Here are the only big parallels

1) Carter was a president during severe economic problems (stagflation/inflation) which had little to do with him, and an impatient populace and media blamed him.

2) He sometimes spoke the truth too much (rather than "daddy's going to make everything okay"). See Maliase speech. Seriously read the speech. If we had listened to him, we might have buckled down and retained far more manufacturing here. Instead we initiated the mother of credit booms.

(to much truth is not cool. See Obama's supposed apology tours)

That's really about it. OBama has far more charisma than Carter, and despite the weak attempt I hear from the right, Obama is perceived to be tough with foreign policy and national security.

PEople learn a lot about a candidate from the way they run their campaigns. Romney's bungled attempts to use last weeks crisis for political gain was the end of his campaign.

That kind of impulsiveness and lack of common sense is not what's called for in the Presidency. It doesn't matter whether it was him or his handlers. Obama has always come off as far more thoughtful, careful and consistent in the way he handles himself.

It's a day and night difference between the Obama and Romney. It's already a landslide. Just imagine if we weren't in a depression,...the polls would probably show 70% expected voters for Obama.

There really isn't much difference between Obama and Romney. Both are cozy with the global plutocrats and both are socially liberal. I really don't see why "conservatives" like Romney so much (except for the fact that he's *not* black), or why "liberals" like Obama so much (except for the fact that he *is* black).

It's all just "us vs. them" tribalism at this point.

At the end of the day, the global plutocracy wins. And they're laughing all the way to the TBTF bank.

Seems like the culture war between the Secular (and Religious) Left and the Religious Right dominates our politics.

Historically, people are willing to die to protect "their culture" against the "other culture." So it's not a phoney issue cooked up by Fox News. Sure, Fox News fans the flames and stirs the pot, but the issues are genuine.

rethugs give us plenty of deluge up economic shit on a platter.

AverageBear says

Calling those who want to uphold voting integrity racists is beyond deplorable. We all know the Dems want illegals to vote.

Very true. There's a lot of "playing the race card" on the votor ID issue.

John Bailo, that's a very good description of how "supply side" economics is no longer the solution to our problems. Right now we have millions of unemployed who can't create their own job because they can't buy anything.

Consumers "create jobs," not billionaires. Billionaires aren't going to invest in new businesses when consumer demand is in the toilet.

AverageBear says

I'll never understand the fake outrage of those opposed to voter ID laws.

The outrage is because it's a known fact that voter fraud doesn't happen.

This is based on the fact that research has shown they can only find literally a few instances of it ever happening.

But even more it is based on common sense. Who is going to risk committing voter fraud for the sake of getting one more vote for their guy.

The only reason you want to think the law is reasonable is that you hate to admit republicans are cheating scumbags who would gladly cheat to prevent Obama getting another term, just like they would rather see America go down than to cooperate with Obama in a way that makes him more successful (his being in the way of them having more power).

IF you think what congressman Turzai means in this short video is about preventing non-citizens from voting than you are truly an idiot.
I don't think you are an idiot. But then you have to admit that you're even worse...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/EuOT1bRYdK8

marcus says

The outrage is because it's a known fact that voter fraud doesn't happen.

lol. My Chicago peeps might say otherwise.

I guess it's all academic at this point. Everybody knows that Diebold will hand the vote to whichever candidate gives them the most money. It's a good racket!

It's amazing that Diebold can track bank accounts to the last penny, savings vs. checking vs. credit vs. money market, along with a paper receipt, and you can take money out of their machines anywhere in the world from anywhere else in the world.

But giving a physical ticket confirmation of a vote, well, that's too technically difficult to provide as standard equipment on a voting machine.

The outrage is because it's a known fact that voter fraud doesn't happen.

10,000 dead found on Virginia's voter rolls

http://www.nbc12.com/story/19237542/10000-dead-found-on-virginias-voter-rolls

Odd how they are only now started to look at this....

HeadSet says

10,000 dead found on Virginia's voter rolls

Wow, it's not just in Chicago anymore.

HeadSet says

10,000 dead found on Virginia's voter rolls

Voter ID has nothing to do with that.

That means that they could do a better job of keeping the list of residents for a given voting region accurate and updated.

What it doesn't mean is that a bunch of people are coming in and pretending to be those people.

Yes please ! Do what is necessary to have an accurate list of local registered voters at the polling places.

marcus says

What it doesn't mean is that a bunch of people are coming in and pretending to be those people.

Nobody knows if nobody checks. This is exactly the type of fraud that voter ID would stop.

HeadSet says

Nobody knows if nobody checks. This is exactly the type of fraud that voter ID would stop.

We can't have voter ID laws! It would hurt Democrats!

HeadSet says

Odd how they are only now started to look at this....

Wtf ?

You don't think there have always been procedures for keeping the lists of registered voting residents updated ? Are you fucking kidding ?

THe thing that's surprising is that there are idiots who think this is newsworthy. THey're doing routine updating of their lists, and taking off the dead people, and some stupid readers are supposed to think:

"I can't believe they never thought of this before. THat's just votert fraud waitng to happen"

I can imagine it now. "All we have to do is find out who has died in the last few years, and hope that they haven't been taken off of the list of voters, and then we need to find individuals who will pretend to be those people to go in and vote - and for it to make a difference we have to get hundreds or more people to do this without anyone finding out what we're doing....no problem"

Right...

Marcus,

If voter fraud doesn't happen, you shouldn't be all that worried about requiring voter ID. It shouldn't hurt "your team."

How can someone not have a picture ID? Everyone I know had one since they were 16 years old, probably even earlier.

dublin hillz says

How can someone not have a picture ID? Everyone I know had one since they were 16 years old, probably even earlier.

Everybody knows drivers licenses are racist.

AverageBear says

You need photo ID to by certain OTC medication, buy beer, reserve a rental car, etc. To me these are less important things than voting.

Okay, let's make voting rules clearer and safer all around, especially regarding absentee voting, and regarding vote counting and technology.

IF fraud is going to happen, it is going to be through manipulation of technology or by cheating in other ways that involves a very small number of people.

So yes, let's invest in ways that makes it easier for all citizens to vote, and with accurate counts and no fraud (republicans don't want this).

But let's not implement changes right before an election. There are no people who aren't severely cognitively handicapped who don't understadn exactly what republican sponsored voter suppression is about.

And guess what ? The money behind voter suppression isn't about preventing gay marriage , or abortion, or gun rights, or prayer in schools. It's about elite interests who want a republican in power for reasons having exclusively to do with MONEY.

dublin hillz says

How can someone not have a picture ID? Everyone I know had one since they were 16 years old, probably even earlier.

No offense, but your experience with your circle of friends is not really relevent here. Voting is a fundamental right in the US. All efforts should be made to ensure everyone is able to exercise that right.

tatupu70 says

Voting is a fundamental right in the US. All efforts should be made to ensure everyone is able to exercise that right.

Agree, but we need to protect against fraud too. Heck, I have to present my ID when checking into a hotel. It's good to make sure that a person is who they say they are, no?

I agree that any election law changes should be made at least a year before an actual election. Changing said laws right before an election *is* shenanigans, I agree.

In California if someone does not drive, they can still get aCalifornia ID. I don't see why this issue is so controversial. It seems logical and reasonable to be able to verify someone's identity in certain situations, voting being one of them. When someone travels outside the country, you have to have a U.S. passport with you to show to foreign officials upon entry and to show to U.S. officials upon return. No one complains that this is unjust or inconvenient. Personally, I think that everyone should be required to have a valid form of picture ID regardless of voting requirements. If someone does not make enough money to afford the $25 fee that it would cost or whatever the amount is in each state, perhaps there can be some legislation for eligibility for a reduced rate or outright waiver of charges.

Vote early, vote often!

SoftShell says

I am telling you it is possible for a single person to cast multiple illegal votes in one day.

It may be possible, but it would be very difficult.

What is known by common sense as well as by research is that it basically does not happen.

Why are they instituting this weeks before the election ?

Is it because of a real concern ?

OR is it because too many republicans are scumbags who would do anything to win ?

Haha, the "party of family values" my ass. More like the party of assholes who feel so entitled to political power that they are willing to cheat to get it.

If the GOP were sincere, wouldn't they also attempt to make photo ID free and easy to get in the interest of every getting their franchise?

I don't know of such a movement. That would make it apparent that they are trying to discourage full participation, not enforce the rules.

CL says

If the GOP were sincere, wouldn't they also attempt to make photo ID free and easy to get in the interest of every getting their franchise?

I don't know of such a movement. That would make it apparent that they are trying to discourage full participation, not enforce the rules.

I don't think you understand the mindset a bit. It's real simple. As a former GOP voter, my thinking would have gone "I want to make sure only REAL AMERICANS can vote, and we have to start by any means to chip away at this very SERIOUS and WIDESPREAD voter fraud problem by disallowing illegals." And if any citizens who are ....shiftless.... were swept up in the scoop along with the wetbacks well fine. The "illegals" are representative of the American underclass that GOP voters hate. Brown people are all the same.... even the trailer trash white folks might as well be brown.....

Vicente says

Brown people are all the same.... even the trailer trash white folks might as well be brown.....

I agree. Certainly they have their demographic studies that show that these voting citizens are less likely to support GOP policy objectives. It's safe to assume that they are therefore attempting to shrink the franchise, not to prevent fraud.

I agree that any requirement for photo ID must come with a program to get it to those who lack it. And it must be "free" i.e. paid by taxes. And it's obviously far too late for this election cycle. Two years should be plenty of time, however.

I can't even get back into my "native" country w/o a photo ID, (i.e. a passport) if I travel abroad. Requiring ID to vote is pretty mild.

robertoaribas says

The GOP has made up an issue, to disenfranchise elderly and young voters, period.

The elderly tend to vote for the GOP on average, no? Young people like to drive and get their DLs when they're 16-17. They can't vote until they're 18. Even if you aren't legal to drive, states usually issue generic non-driver photo IDs, don't they?

robertoaribas says

They are against a fundamental american right based on the flimsiest of pretexts, and they don't deserve to exist as a political party any more for this and a host of other reasons.

That's just blind partisanship.

I don't see how people get by without a Photo ID. Even "marginalized" people.

You need a Photo ID to cash most checks, pick up mail or packages from USPS or UPS, use a check to pay for groceries (which many elderly folks, especially poorer ones, still do), take a trip on a plane (and, I believe, AMTRAK), etc. etc.

A Photo ID for voting is just fine, but if Photo IDs are required, they should be free.

The Democrats would be unbeatable if they were to adopt a few populist stances. Not every populist idea is stupid or dangerous, conversely, not every elitist idea is brilliant and helpful to the general welfare.

You know, once in a while, Democrats might like to advance a cause that poor, working men champion. Like making sure we're not deluged with cheap day laborers who drive down the wages for manual labor. Stop illegal immigration, and wages for landscaping, maids, and nannies would skyrocket.

One of the best indicators of the health of a country's economy is how expensive domestic servants are. The more expensive, the better.

AverageBear says

And if we do have solid evidence that voter fraud exists

The problem is that we don't have solid evidence. When investigated all the things you mentioned have been found to not exist.

For example ACORN was found to have not have committed any voter fraud.

AverageBear says

Unions strong-arming the minions to vote the "D" happening all the time to this day.

Informational chart is not exactly "strongarming." What the heck are u talking about?

leo707 says

verageBear says

And if we do have solid evidence that voter fraud exists

The problem is that we don't have solid evidence. When investigated all the things you mentioned have been found to not exist.

For example ACORN was found to have not have committed any voter fraud.

For example ... Acorn worker WAS convicted of voter fraud.

Ex-ACORN worker: 'I paid the price' for voter registration fraud
JOHN MCCAIN
October 22, 2008|By Chris Lawrence CNN "American Morning"

Clifton Mitchell filled out voter cards using fake birthdays, Social Security numbers and baby-name books.

Clifton Mitchell helped register nearly 2,000 voters for the community group ACORN. But not one of them actually existed.

"I regret it. I paid the price for it," he said.

Mitchell was convicted last year and spent nearly three months in prison. He's one of the few ACORN workers convicted of voter registration fraud.

Today, he lives with his wife and two boys, ages 3 and 1, in a small apartment in suburban Seattle, Washington. Mitchell said he scammed the system because, "I needed money; I had to support my family and I was new to the area. It was the only job I had."

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-22/politics/voter.fraud_1_voter-registration-acorn-workers-number-of-swing-states?_s=PM:POLITICS

ACORN worker sentenced to 10 months for election fraud
VOTER REGISTRATION
November 18, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff

An ACORN worker who submitted multiple voter registration applications for the same individuals before the 2008 election was sentenced Thursday to 10 months in prison, Wisconsin's attorney general said.

The worker, Kevin Clancy, also admitted that he and other ACORN workers registered each other to vote multiple times in order to meet voter registration quotas imposed by the community organizing organization, said Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen.

Clancy pleaded guilty to one count of falsely procuring voter registration as party to a crime, Van Hollen said. The election worker faced more than 3 years in prison and a $10,000 fine, Van Hollen said in a news release from Milwaukee.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-18/justice/election.worker.sentenced_1_van-hollen-voter-registration-acorn-worker?_s=PM:CRIME