patrick.net

freak80 says

But we still generate much of our electricity from coal and natural gas. So from a global warming standpoint, I'm not sure how much EV's really help.

Yeah, but because the electric cars are agnostic as to where they get their power it makes it "easier" to switch them all over to a cleaner fuel.

I have to admit that I've always relegated the Tesla Model S Sedan to the 'rich man's toy' vehicle class and hadn't given it much thought until I started reading some of the initial reviews. If I actually had a garage, I might find myself taking out a HELOC loan and having a mid-life crisis. What they did with the vehicle is nothing short of astounding. Given the dearth of 6/7 passenger hybrids on the market, the Tesla Model S actually looks attractive when compared to a Highlander hybrid. I can tell you which one I'd rather drive. Random stuff that is amazing about the Model S. Best drag coefficient of any vehicle on the road. Rigid body with low center of mass thanks to battery pack. Most reviewers have a hard time describing how it handles (as its like nothing else out there), but they certainly like it. Basically as much cargo capacity as a Highlander in five passenger mode (thanks to the frunk - the Model S front trunk). Optional rear facing jumpseats for the the kids to make it a seven passenger family hauler (that, uhhh, really hauls on the open road).
Toyota are you listening? All will be forgiven if you release the seven passenger Priuv v (aka Prius Alpha in Japan) in the US.

freak80 says

But we still generate much of our electricity from coal and natural gas. So from a global warming standpoint, I'm not sure how much EV's really help.

Using domestic coal and natural gas is way better than using imported oil.

EBGuy says

I might find myself taking out a HELOC loan and having a mid-life crisis.

Nooooooooooooo!

There is a catch-22 here. Yes- its still cheaper to use fossil fuels to make electricity and some of these- like coal- do pollute. On the other hand the US has something like 250 years worth of coal and will also soon be the world's largest producer of natural gas. So in that case the issue wouldn't be where it came from because it would all be sourced nationally.

freak80 said: Nooooooooooooo!
Listen, that equity is doing nothing just sitting in my house. It could be traveling down the highway from 0 to 60 is 6.5 seconds. Haven't you ever heard of the velocity of money argument -- Ben says it should be good for the economy.

freak80 says

A few decades ago, only the well-to-do could afford a PC. Now almost everyone has one.

I remember when one could buy a TI-99/4a for $45 w tax with a $50 mail in rebate. I had to save all my hours of programming to a tape recorder. Ah, those were the days!

zzyzzx says

Using domestic coal and natural gas is way better than using imported oil.

I'd prefer to just use coal and/or natural gas in the car directly. More efficient that way.

Of course if you REALLY have your heart set on an EV the best way to power it is clean, safe, efficient nuclear power.

EBGuy says

Listen, that equity is doing nothing just sitting in my house. It could be traveling down the highway from 0 to 60 is 6.5 seconds. Haven't you ever heard of the velocity of money argument

Love it!

New Renter says

I'd prefer to just use coal and/or natural gas in the car directly. More efficient that way.

Yep. Not sure about coal though. Unless I can drive one of these to work:

I would buy a Plugin Prius.

However I'm waiting for Toyota to offer moonroof as an option on it. The offerings for their plugin car are inferior to the standard hybrid.

freak80 says

New Renter says

I'd prefer to just use coal and/or natural gas in the car directly. More efficient that way.

Yep. Not sure about coal though. Unless I can drive one of these to work:

Try this:

With a little work I'm sure one can adapt coal technology to a Prius.

We need to eventually ban fossil fuels. Disgusting, polluting piece of crap.
Exxon Mobil can go to hell.

Raw says

We need to eventually ban fossil fuels. Disgusting, polluting piece of crap.

Exxon Mobil can go to hell.

Great, then the nuclear industry can count on your support?

New Renter says

Raw says

We need to eventually ban fossil fuels. Disgusting, polluting piece of crap.

Exxon Mobil can go to hell.

Great, then the nuclear industry can count on your support?

Yes.
I hope we just solved the energy problems of the world.

Raw says

New Renter says

Raw says

We need to eventually ban fossil fuels. Disgusting, polluting piece of crap.

Exxon Mobil can go to hell.

Great, then the nuclear industry can count on your support?

Yes.

I hope we just solved the energy problems of the world.

Me too

If you hate pollution and oil companies please buy a Prius.
If you love to save money, please buy a Prius.

http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2012/03/13/why-you-should-consider-buying-a-toyota-prius/

Raw says

We need to eventually ban fossil fuels. Disgusting, polluting piece of crap.
Exxon Mobil can go to hell.

For real?

That's one of those stereotypical far-left talking points.

BTW, ExxonMobil is chump change compared to NOCs like Saudi Aramco and PDVSA.

Electric cars will always be impractical for the majority of americans with current technology.

Until you can go 300 miles on a single charge with no more than 15 minutes to refill another 300 miles of charge, they are worthless compared to combustion engine cars. This technology is not even on the drawing board in any realistic way right now.

I have a feeling our great grandchildren will be burning gas in their cars.

The day we fix how the patent process works, will be the day we have cars powered by alternate energy that isn't an excessive in stupidity or just a rich mans game.

It is clear, the Auto industry just isn't interested in developing such vehicles, not with out tying them back to Gas, or making them prohibitively expensive.

The solution will come from private innovation and entrepreneurship.
There is not a day that goes by, that lawyers aren't out in full force to either make the patent laws favorable to corporations with billions to spend, that squeeze out the garage tinkerers, and makes it cost prohibitive for them to patent their products and design.

Even if you do manage to get a patent, most tinkerers don't have the capitol to keep the patent current. So you go to Company A, to ask them to invest in your invention that you've patented, they turn you down, put the word out to their colleagues and industrial peers. No one gives you the time of day, they sit back and wait for your patents to expire then they will apply for them.

There's this shit going on every day, you folks can't be having a serious conversation about Unicorn Fart powered vehicles with out at least acknowledging the patent process tells you "HELL NO it will never happen".

CaptainShuddup says

Even if you do manage to get a patent, most tinkerers don't have the capitol to keep the patent current. So you go to Company A, to ask them to invest in your invention that you've patented, they turn you down, put the word out to their colleagues and industrial peers. No one gives you the time of day, they sit back and wait for your patents to expire then they will apply for them.

Or they don't even wait, knowing that the time and money involved in defending a patent would make it easy for them to crush the small time inventor.

leo707 says

Or they don't even wait, knowing that the time and money involved in defending a patent would make it easy for them to crush the small time inventor.

God Bless America.

edvard2 says

Good. Nothing should ever run on anything other than gasoline.

Take a look at the IPad 6, it runs on gas and every MAC fanboy will claim it's the greatest invention ever and that Apple invented petro.

CaptainShuddup says

alternate energy

"Alternative energy" makes about as much sense as "racial equality". They are both liberal talking points with no supporting facts for its existence.

Gas has the highest energy density of any easily obtainable fuel. Electricity is very hard to store within the physical confines that a personal vehicle requires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

Gas is also very easy to dispense into a container that is right sized for a vehicle. Battery density is very poor compared to a gas tank and it takes far longer to refill.

Gas simply serves the consumer better than electricity.

Gas mileage in new vehicles would be far greater than what it is today if the NHTSA allowed "less safe" cars. The unnecessary weight of new cars is a major factor in gas mileage.

When mankind is ready to stop using gas powered vehicles the choice will be obvious to everyone that the new technology is far superior and most likely vastly different from anything we currently have. Electric cars are a dead end choice for replacing the combustion engine.

foxmannumber1 says

Electric cars will always be impractical for the majority of americans with current technology.

Until you can go 300 miles on a single charge with no more than 15 minutes to refill another 300 miles of charge, they are worthless compared to combustion engine cars.

Yes- the key word is "current" technology. That said, if you were to compare the timeline that it took for internal combustion technology to become affordable and practical for the masses, it took decades. The first vehicle was driven in the 1860's. It wasn't until the early 1900's- a full 40-50 years later- that cars became affordable for the masses.

Electric car technology on the other hand has grown in leaps and bounds in just the past 5 years. If our grandchildren are driving cars, I highly suspect they won't be powered wit gas unless they happen to be extremely wealthy because by then the price of gas will likely be extremely high and unaffordable for most.

edvard2 says

If our grandchildren are driving cars, I highly suspect they won't be powered wit gas unless they happen to be extremely wealthy because by then the price of gas will likely be extremely high and unaffordable for most.

Given the obvious flaws with batteries, they will not be driving electric cars in any meaningful numbers.

I also have faith in the US government to bomb countries that attempt to stop us from doing what we want. This includes giving/selling us cheap gasoline. We will always have cheap gasoline in the US.

foxmannumber1 says

"Alternative energy" makes about as much sense as "racial equality". They are both liberal talking points with no supporting facts for its existence.

Yeah, because conservatives are immune from pollution. Keep eating a can of tuna fish every day. I'm sure that methylmercury will take into account your political views when deciding whether or not to kill you.

Why are conservatives so stupid when it comes to pollution? Maybe if we built all the coal power plants upwind from where conservatives live...

Dan8267 says

Why are conservatives so stupid when it comes to pollution? Maybe if we built all the coal power plants upwind from where conservatives live...

I believe in pollution. I think that cars cause pollution.

I think there would be a lot less pollution if were more selective on who could and couldn't drive.

Anyone who reaches the age of 16 and has $1000 in their pocket can drive in the US. Any substantial driving test or much higher fees on driving would naturally have a disparate impact on blacks, therefore it can't be considered at all by liberals.

I also think there would be less pollution if there were less people in the world. Those of low intelligence create more offspring than those with a high intelligence, therefore creating more pollution while also creating more negative contributions to the world. Sterilization of those with a low genetic intelligence would benefit the planet overall. This would also have a disparate impact on blacks, therefore it is heresy to a liberal.

foxmannumber1 says

Sterilization of those with a low genetic intelligence would benefit the planet overall. This would also have a disparate impact on blacks, therefore it is heresy to a liberal.

Yeah, because Africa pollutes way more than the United States. Typical conservative looking only at selective facts and then getting them wrong as well.

From the Kyoto Action Report

Mercury is one of the most toxic pollutants coming from the smokestacks of coal-fired power plants. These power plants are responsible for 44.7 tons of mercury spewed into the environment each year, representing 40 percent of the total mercury pollution from industrial sources in the U.S.

http://kyotoactionreport.blogspot.com/2012/02/epa.html

I don't buy that conservatives love their country if they are willing to pollute it so much. Love of country means you leave the country in better shape than you found it, not worse. And pollution, by definition, makes it worse.

But perhaps we should sterilize those with low intelligence as foxmannumber1 suggests. Let me get that list ready...

Turns out them red states is dumb.

Dan8267 says

But perhaps we should sterilize those with low intelligence as foxmannumber1 suggests. Let me get that list ready...

Where people choose to live means little. It is a fact that blacks have an average IQ of 85. It is a fact that whites have an average IQ of 100.

If liberals were intellectually honest, they would admit this disparity is caused by genetics. They are not honest and blame the intelligence gap on everything except obvious choice that is backed by facts.

For instance, all of Africa is 'data not available'. It is not available because there are no white people there in any significant number to measure the pollution. Major oil spills and horribly polluting strip mining are commonplace in Africa, yet this data isn't available in your graphic due to the uncivilized nature of Africa. A liberal can't admit this fact.

America takes care of the environment much better than China for instance. Asians care very little about the short term effects of pollution.

White IQ by state:
http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/datasets/estimated-white-iq-by-state/versions/1.txt

Black IQ by state:
http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/datasets/estimated-black-iq-by-state/versions/1.txt

The 'red' southern states have major black populations, even though blacks only vote strictly along racial lines when a black or even partial black is running office. Black candidates are also super majority democrat. This indicates low voter turnout among blacks.

The 'blue' northeast states have segregated themselves from blacks and live in a homogenous society. All white societies are more liberal in their giving to others because they know it won't be wasted on blacks.

I'm sorry Kerry lost the 2004 election but calling people stupid who voted against him, will do nothing help Vote in the next douche sack like Kerry other than upping the anty against his chances.

Dan8267 says

Energy boondoggle seems appropriate to me.

All of the startups that got millions/billions for it will fail without any product or advancement to show for it. 100% wasted money.

Let us agree on two things first:

The figure merit for a car is g(CO2)/mile.

The figure of merit for electricity generation is g(CO2)/kWh

Now lets look at the implications: The electrical energy on the US grid comes from a mixture of sources, such as coal, natgas, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar and so on.

The grid mix averages out to a certain FOM for g(CO2)/kWh.

Now here is the point wrt. electrical vehicles, using Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius as data points:

Nissan Leaf has a HIGHER g(CO2)/mile than the Toyota Prius. Not by much, but the difference is about 3% in Prius's favor. And Prius is a bigger and heavier car. This means that we are better of driving Prius than Leaf!

This is not a matter of improving battery performance. The problem is where we get electricity from. Basically a Leaf runs on a lot of coal!

If you want the details, do a google search as follows:

site:greencarcongress.com Jus7tme Nissan Leaf

Here is one link:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/06/508hy-20120625/comments/page/1/#comments

The upshot is that it will take many years before electrical vehicles use less CO2/mile than the best hybrid vehicles, especially diesel-hybrid vehicles and diesel-start-stop vehicles, as they keep improving.

What we all need to do is to buy cars that get 50mpg TODAY (2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid, 2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid, and any Prius is a good choice), and keep improving the mpg to 70 and beyond as soon as possible. Meanwhile, we should also develop more clean electricity.

There are many Electrical Vehicle (EV) believers that absolutely do not want to believe that EVs are bad for the environment (CO2/mile), but the above is the plain truth.

foxmannumber1 says

Where people choose to live means little.

People don't choose where they are born. Their parents do. And most people still stay close to where they are born.

You stated that genetics determines intelligence. Hence, being derived from ancestors from Alabama rather than ancestors from Massachusetts would be significant. The vast majority of genetic differences aren't racial features and can easily cross racial lines through a process called trait flow.

So yes, being a southerner as opposed to being a northerner is every bit as related to you genetics as being white instead of black. Add to that all the inbreeding the south is infamous for...

Of course, intelligence is the result of both genetics and upbringing. The brain is like a muscle; the more you use it, the stronger it gets.

One final point regarding your hypothesis... Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the genes responsible for the level of melanin (skin tone) are also responsible for intelligence levels? If so, please present it. I don't see any connection between skin pigmentation and brain structure.

Of course, I would still object to your proposed solution on the basis of ethics and rights even if it did have a factual basis, but I don't think it even does have that.

In any case, I'm pretty sure Neils Degrasse Tyson would be far more likely to pass the IQ test than you.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/6oxTMUTOz0w

Dan8267 says

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the genes responsible for the level of melanin (skin tone) are also responsible for intelligence levels?

No, because there are many genetic differences between the races. Skin color is just 1 of millions of these genes.

No one is saying that blacks are incapable of being smart. It is just extremely rare.

Once again, the average black IQ is 85. The average white IQ is 100. Nothing anyone says will ever change this fact. In the factual links I posted, the white IQ in northern states and southern states varies very little, as does the black IQ between states. When you compare black numbers to white numbers, the difference is major.

foxmannumber1 says

The 'blue' northeast states have segregated themselves from blacks and live in a homogenous society. All white societies are more liberal in their giving to others because they know it won't be wasted on blacks.

I thought the KKK were all locked up.
PS...what does the 1 in your screen name stand for? Your IQ?

Raw says

foxmannumber1 says

The 'blue' northeast states have segregated themselves from blacks and live in a homogenous society. All white societies are more liberal in their giving to others because they know it won't be wasted on blacks.

I thought the KKK were all locked up.

PS...what does the 1 in your screen name stand for? Your IQ?

I want to know if you think what I said is true or not more than if you think it's racist or not.

edvard2 says

What "Obvious" flaws

Lack of capacity and slow recharge time.

foxmannumber1 says

Raw says

foxmannumber1 says

The 'blue' northeast states have segregated themselves from blacks and live in a homogenous society. All white societies are more liberal in their giving to others because they know it won't be wasted on blacks.

I thought the KKK were all locked up.

PS...what does the 1 in your screen name stand for? Your IQ?

I want to know if you think what I said is true or not more than if you think it's racist or not.

Asians have higher IQ. So do Jews, which is why your beloved Hitler tried to exterminate them.