patrick.net

propitup1 says

You are a Liberal troll, pretending to be a "Republican", to smear the Tea Party.

I would say no. I have thought of myself as a responsible republican who is now drifting because of the extreme right. Besides Perot, I have voted with the republican party besides the 2004 election when I was in Iraq. I didn't vote this last election at all because McCain pandered to the extreme right with Sara Palin and I didn't think Obama had the experience. I am also not a chump who believes everything that the billionaires tell me to believe. The Tea party is a bunch of Koch (coke) fiends who listen to their billionaire messiah.

dodgerfanjohn says

For those bemoaning the social right leanings of the current Republican party members in Congress and in the Senate...and for that matter, in the White House......

Good post dodgerfanjohn. That is a good and quick analysis.

shrekgrinch says

Its clear that the Republican party has decided to focus on an increasingly concentrated, specific demographic and if the continue to insist on going down the road they're on they will lose more and more constituents.

Nope. Because an activist core never was what won elections alone.

Let me put it in another way. I would compare the current Republican party to the 80's and 90's era in Detroit when the big 3 totally ignored their compact , family, and luxury car segments. This was back when they basically built a whole lot of granny boats. Big, bloated, floaty cars that had a narrow appeal to primarily older buyers. These were the same buyers who had basically bought the same cars back in the 50's and 60's. Instead of going after younger, newer buyers, the Big 3 instead went after an aging buyer and gradually lost relevance. Luckily today they're back in the game with some appealing small cars as well as some decent family and luxury cars. It took a complete overhaul for them to do this. The same goes for the Republican party. Every single video I've seen of Republican rallys shows a crowd full of blue hairs and middle aged folks- primarily from middle America. Perhaps now they're ok because there is currently an ample supply of boomers in those crowds. But if the party fails to attract younger people then they- just like the Big 3- will lose relevance.

investor90 says

We are not the REAL owners of our country. The Real owners, The Billionaires, OWN our politicians , OWN the big media companies. They want MORE for themselves and less for everyone else. Democrats? Republicans? Who cares ?? Both parties are OWNED by these people. Do you ever wonder why tens of millions of dollars was funneled into the Obama for President campaign buy the same banks that HATE the supporters of progressive policies, UNLESS they get an exemption from prosecution and they get to walk for their financial crimes.
NOT ONE banker - insider - white collar criminal has been indicted. Even James Carville is complaining that most everything that Democrats support is being dismantled by a few big banks. YESTERDAY Carville asked the President WHY no white collar banking criminals have been prosecuted since his election. NOT ONE...yet Mr President he continues to shoot golf with Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase, one of the biggest slimeballs and banksters in the WORLD.

Agree. Like I said, THE turning point for me was the bank bailouts. So much for free-market capitalism. "Too Big to Fail" is SOCIALISM for business! Privatizing the profits and socializing the losses is SOCIALISM for the rich.

That's why I can't stand Republican rhetoric against "socialism" post 2008. The bank bailouts were a huge moral hazard...if private businesses can get welfare, than why shouldn't ordinary people demand welfare too?

Niether party represents the people, only the very narrow interests that fund them. They say proudly once elected, "I don't make my decisions on the basis of any polls". As if this gives them some sort of almighty charactor. It's just plain arrogance.
The USA is not even a democracy. The American people have no say and we all know it. Do you think any of this bull would be happening if the people had any power to change it? Try to pull an Egypt here and see what happens. They'll brutally savagely crush it. Remember the Civil war. The parties pick one candidate each and you must vote for one of them. That's one more choice than a dictatorship. Sadly, that's no choice at all.

corntrollio says

Yes, the right answer is *politicians* spend money like drunken sailors. They are constantly trying to get re-elected.
That doesn't mean term limits are the answer -- they tend to make politicians unaccountable. It just means people need to be better engaged and better aware of facts, rather than propaganda.

We agree here 100%.

shrekgrinch says

have a highly informed and educated public

I would like to say yes, and it did work for Athens but this isn't Athens (of ancient times.) I just don't see that happening with the liberal bleeding heart, gadget addicted, pill popping, slap happy don't worry be happy (and don’t be mean - meaning don't give a dose of truth or reality,) grossly immature, stupid, game playing, Kool-Aid (of the Jim Jones variety) drinking masses in the USA.

Actually both parties are disgusting. Ron Paul for Prez!

The GOP managed to force the Democrats to negotiate and put $3-4 trillion worth of cuts on the table. But as David Brooks put it:
If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment... This, as I say, is the mother of all no-brainers....But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party.
The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms...
The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency...
The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities...
The members of this movement have no economic theory worthy of the name. I weep for this squandered opportunity.

That said, if you're a Californian, you'll probably be voting for at least one GOP candidate next year as the open primaries are coming courtesy of Prop 14. Perhaps a revitalized Republican party will emerge in the Golden State.

Truthplease says

Historically speaking, how has this party changed from the days of Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Goldwater to now?

The Republican and Democrat parties completely switch roles in the 1960s. Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Eisenhower would be hated by the repubs now, and they would hate the repubs.

To illustrate the difference... (MDR = Modern Day Republicans)

Lincoln - Emancipation Proclamation

MDR - Omg! A black man in the White House! He must be a secret Muslim born in Keyna to sell our white children to Al Qaeda!

Lincoln - "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

MDR - Our main goal is to make sure Obama is a one term president. Any means is justified to that end, even destroying the American economy.

Lincoln - "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"

MDR - I got a boner when you said destroyed.

Lincoln - "Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. "

MDR - The only book I need is the Bible. Greatest story every told!

Lincoln - "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. "

MDR - The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Lincoln - "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."

MDR - I know we'll rename the estate tax the "death tax"!

Theodore Roosevelt - "We demand that big business give the people a square deal; in return we must insist that when anyone engaged in big business honestly endeavors to do right he shall himself be given a square deal."

MDR - Regulations bad!

Theodore Roosevelt - "Optimism is a good characteristic, but if carried to an excess, it becomes foolishness. We are prone to speak of the resources of this country as inexhaustible; this is not so."

MDR - Drill baby, drill!

Theodore Roosevelt - "We of an older generation can get along with what we have, though with growing hardship; but in your full manhood and womanhood you will want what nature once so bountifully supplied and man so thoughtlessly destroyed; and because of that want you will reproach us, not for what we have used, but for what we have wasted...So any nation which in its youth lives only for the day, reaps without sowing, and consumes without husbanding, must expect the penalty of the prodigal whose labor could with difficulty find him the bare means of life."

MDR - Keep your damn government out of my Medicare!

Theodore Roosevelt - "There can be no greater issue than that of conservation in this country."

MDR - Global warming is a myth. And if it's not then it's just a natural cycle, so we can continue to pollute the Earth to maximize shareholder profits.

Theodore Roosevelt - "The conservation of natural resources is the fundamental problem. Unless we solve that problem it will avail us little to solve all others."

MDR - How's that hopie-changie thing working out?

Ike - "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

MDR - Corporations are people, too. They should be able to contribute vasts amounts of untraceable money to politicians.

Ike - "Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed."

MDR - Evolution! Phooyee!

Ike - "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

MDR - Wars are the only valid stimulus.

Ike - "I despise people who go to the gutter on either the right or the left and hurl rocks at those in the center."

MDR - You're either with us or against us you gay-married, Nazi-Islamic, commie terrorist!

Ike - "If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom."

MDR - A fence on the border, strip searches at the airports, and the cops asking for your papers. It's a good start, but not enough!

Could they get any more different?

Also, notice that no one quotes Reagan except Cheney, and his quote is "deficits don't matter."

alice says

Congress is trying to put a stop at the borrow and spend (Greece like) policies of the White House and Senate. Viva Republicans and Tea Party. Stop increasing taxes, Stop the borrow and spend stupidity....

Yes that would be nice. There certainly wasn't any borrow and spend stupidity during the Reagan or Bush II years.

shrekgrinch says

Dan8267 says

Lincoln - "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. "

Uh....during the Civil War, Lincoln violated the Constitution big time. He ignored habeus corpus and backed a governor who took unconstitutional control of his state away from the state legislature to name just two.

OK, so then politicians were just as hypocritical back then. You'll get no argument from me on that.

Bellingham Bob says

The Dems still don't have any real ideas.

Are you sure about that one though? The problem I see with the democrats is they keep trying to push for huge bills by lumping everything into one.

On a lower level (state and local) things can be done. When Dean was governor he lowered taxes and cut spending in VT. Someone was even quoted saying they thought Reagan was in office!

VT has a interesting program called choices for care for nursing homes. Basically instead of a home the state gives the options for a friend or relative to take care of someone and it pays them $10/hr. Now that isn't much money but it keeps people where they want to be (and nursing homes aren't staffed with all nurses..that's just a crock commercial) The state saves money because it is cheaper than a nursing home, those being cared trust those taking care of them and it creates competition potentially lowering the cost of actual nursing homes.

Back in NYC in the early 90's mayor Dinkins set up these quasi governmental groups that would go after minor crimes (littering, graffiti etc) It freed police up to work on more major crimes. As a result the place became more clean and new businesses moved in (Giuliani didn't do this no matter what someone on the right might say)

mdovell says

Are you sure about that one though? The problem I see with the democrats is they keep trying to push for huge bills by lumping everything into one.

There's a reason for that. Obama knows that any legislation that passes must be a compromise. He threw several bones to the Republicans in the House (even if it's not clear they'll take them). Trying to vote 1 by 1 on these things wouldn't fly -- you need to get a lot of people on board. That's generally how good legislation passes -- neither side gets exactly what they want. Ideological legislation is usually not very good.

I delisted myself from the Republican party by filling out a new voter registration card a day or two after Ann Coulter appeared on Fox News saying "Radiation is good for you". I still support many of their principles but my vote must be earned.

I'm just going to tell it like it is and I know most of you aren't use to hearing this...... White America, you made a bet and you LOST big time. The average white American has been voting Republican their entire life due to fear, racism, classism and stupidity. (Only 43% voted for Liberal Obama). In return, the majority of you have been kicked out of the middle class or barely hanging on, have had your job outsourced or wages frozen, and have been despised by the very top 1% that you live to protect all in the hope that you would eventually become that top 1%.

New Flash: The rich can't stand 99% of you as evidence by their policies towards the majority of you. Your utter ignorance, arrogance and paranoia has you scratching your head and wondering why are you aren't making it today. Capitalism, the very religion that you worship hates you. Labor is the enemy of profits. But the rich knows just how ignorant and racist most whites are and how they will vote against their own best interest if they think it will keep people WITH color (God's original people) "in their place".

I wish I could say that I feel sorry for republican whites who have gotten their anus's kicked in this economy...... but I don't. You deserve every inch of heart ache that you are feeling due to your supreme illogical ignorance and hatred for people WITH Color. When Ron Paul's own former campaign worker dies due to lack of health care, an ideology that many of you champion all in the name of "Freedom" (so simple minded), it's hard to feel sorry for that guy. I pity you in that you are the victim of your own ignorance and hatred, but I don't feel sorry for you. As Ed Shultz tries to rally support for all of the mostly white fire fighters and public workers on his show, an intelligent mind can't help to think how many of those people have been voting for the party of "small government" their entire lives and now find themselves out of work due to the ideology of small government or better "please fire me".

Learn a lesson or two in humility and self checking from African Americans or Africans in America (God's Original people). It's high time that white America have "RACE" specific talk shows (radio & TV) much in the same way that African Americans that deal specifically with the dysfunction in the black community and how it is destroying their community. Why can people with color hold their own accountable but whites simply cannot? Poor and barely middle class white Americans who vote republicans in office are hurting America in ways that some Arab with a bomb could never hurt America. White liberals you must find the courage (the same way that African Americans do) to speak SPECIFICALLY to the white community ie: your neighbor, your family, and in many cases yourself, that is destroying our nation. Every illogical and dysfunctional group of people (dead beat dads, drug abusers, criminals) are all publicly held accountable EXPECT poor and middle class whites who vote against their own interest. It's time that this crap stops. America, that is your main problem. Until you are ready to deal with it....... we will all suffer. The only saving grace is that illogical racist whites will no longer be the majority in this country (the real reason for the attack on social security and all social safety nets).

But in the mean time, the "GOP voting" public worker who is now out of work, the private sector worker who now finds himself outsourced and loosing their home, or the sick GOP voter who is without healthcare......... it's time that you are held accountable and liberal white America THIS IS YOUR JOB. Humble yourself white America and just do it. If African Americans and even Latinos can do it, you can do it too.

I see the time has come after many years to leave Patrick.net. I am finding that too many online forum threads now start off on a tangible subject then spin off into complete utter lunacy. I have no time for it. I wish you all well in your life. Thank you for having me here.

The Republican party has more in common with the Taliban in Afghanistan than a political party in a modern democracy.

Bellingham Bob says

tatupu70 says

Compared to Republicans, they are.

Debt to GDP:

1977-10-01 0.34

1981-10-01 0.32 (Carter reduced 6%)

1993-07-01 0.66 (Reagan/Bush increased 106%)

2001-07-01 0.56 (Clinton reduced 18%)

2009-07-01 0.86 (Bush increased 35%)

2011-04-01 0.96 (Obama increase thus far 11%)

“Nessuna soluzione . . . nessun problema!„

Interesting data here. How many Americans are aware of this?

The debt to GDP can be reduced. I think Bellingham Bob had produced a very easy way to do this that I seen in a previous post.

I am probably jumping off the Republican party. We are a country that has modernized with a shrinking labor force. Hopefully, there is some change in the future. I really hate saying this, but we will eventually head towards the Canadian/European model.

Here is another puzzling question. The republican party is injected and really cares about the christian/religous part of America. They don't really follow the teachings of Jesus in the policies however. How can you be a man or woman who follows those teachings but is willing to cut programs that hurt the poor?

The choices offered by the GOP field of presidential candidates all are better than Obama.

How extreme any of them seem is a function of one's own viewpoint and perspective. If one considers the number of people who call themselves 'Christian' in the nation today, or the historical heritage of our nation, one can hardly call these candidates or their views extreme, in fact, one could much more easily call the policies contrary to their views extreme and radical. One example would be the welfare state (whether the welfare be for individuals or corporations), which has taken root in the minds of too many as an acceptable principle. That idea is intolerable to the founding principles.

I have been a 'Republican' since I made the mistake, at a much younger age, of voting for Jimmy Carter. Years back I realized that the Republican Party was using the funds I gave it to support candidates whose positions, on certain issues, were in opposition to my own. This is similar to what forced unionism and the US tax system does, however, in this case, I had an alternative. I no longer give to parties or PACs that do not stand steadfast and true to my personal positions. This is the answer to your question about giving to the Republican Party. I feel strongly that the Republican Party powers that be are not principled and that their first concern is the perpetuation of their power and the party that affords them this power. This is why the party supports RINOs (Mitt Romney and Olympia Snowe, et. al.) and politicians rather than principled candidates (statesmen).

I do not see the government as my 'savior'. Instead I see it as a tool being used by the unprincipled to achieve their own ends. It could and should be used to protect our freedoms. This is a point I differ wherein I differ from Ron Paul. An example would be Iran and the tyranny and ideology and terrorism it promotes. I believe it is my duty to report a criminal and help to end the crimes. The government of Iran is an international criminal promoting terrorism and the genocide of Jews and anyone not of their ideological bent (Shite Islam). If I had been of voting age in the 1930's I would have opposed isolationism and advocated stopping Hitler and the Nazis and Facists of Italy and Japan while they were still small and relatively easy to deal with. Ron Paul would have been an advocate of the isolationist policies that helped these butchers of mankind grow. Thus I do not support this aspect of Paul's platform. Although I do stridently advocate a return to the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The government has been, in times past, and is sometimes at present used to protect and preserve our freedoms. However, the recent trend has been to usurp freedoms from the people and the states.

Many Americans do not see the GOP candidates as extreme. The MSM (Main Stream Media) likes to paint them as extreme, but the positions represented by many of the candidates have been around for some time.

Many Americans do not feel that the faith of these candidates is inappropriate. Many great statesmen of the past in this country and other countries acted upon their beliefs in public life. William Wilberforce for example was instrumental in the cessation of slavery in England... although the abolition was a huge loss in economic terms and I am sure he and others of his ilk were labeled extremists. The abolitionists were motivated by the principle that God created all men equal and that people of non-white skin were created in the image of God just like those with light skin. They believed slavery was wrong regardless of the race of the person. I hold to these same principles.

My point is this... the bigotry and prejudice engendered against those who have faith by those who don't is unwarranted and unjustified. It is wrong. The person of Christian faith who has a mature understanding of that faith is told to "love his neighbor as himself"... just consider what this means. Never cheat or deceive or endanger your neighbor... who is his neighbor? Everyman. What about enemies? The Christian is told to love his enemies. Does that mean he is not to defend against the evil a person might do.... No it means that a Christian should stand against evil carry out justice without malice or hatred of the individual.

The truth is... the problems we have encountered are caused by acting out on ideas contrary to the teachings of Christianity. That means believing other things. The Real Estate debacle was caused by greed and avaricious deceit. The propping up of insolvent banks and entities is deceit and robbery because it isn't right to take from taxpayers to sustain the skulduggery of liars and thieves.

There are a few of the Presidential candidates I like less than others... I prefer the No Compromise ilk as I had to take the same position in my financial life to avoid getting sucked into the lie that real estate always goes up and you better get in now or you'll never be able to get in. I remember well the clarion siren call of the crowd and being labeled a nut because I refused to enter into debt I could not repay. I refused the get rich and retire lie. Anyway, I like candidates who say NO to raising the debt ceiling. I like candidates who say YES to a Balanced Budget and will not accept compromise. I like candidates who say get off welfare and get a job... I like candidates who say taxation should be fair (the Fair Tax or a Flat Tax). I like candidates who want to end earmarks and privileges for special interests and groups. I like candidates who think govt should be downsized and capped in spending and number of employees. I like candidates who think govt should be limited. I like candidates who want to see jobs moved back to America and sensible realistic environmental regulations. I like candidates who think illegals shouldn't be rewarded for cutting in front of those trying to enter legally. I like candidates who want to meter immigration so that all current Americans and those immigrating to become Americans can enjoy a good job and support themselves economically. I advocate immigration of those being oppressed.

I like the idea of working for the rest of my days and finding work to do that helps produce so that others can enjoy the fruit of my labor and I can enjoy the fruit of their labor through the exchange of our 'fruit'. I find a great sense of satisfaction in knowing that when I do my job I help other people.

My favorite candidate right now is Michele Bachmann... why? No compromise on the debt ceiling. No compromise on a Balanced Budget Amendment. Jobs are the priority. She doesn't look at government as the solution. As for the tired mantra of "experience", I look at all that the "experience" of the politicians have in Washington has wrought and I think it is time for a candidate who has experience of greater value... how about someone who pays their taxes and has a business and raised 5 kids and contributed to the lives of 23 foster children. All the economic 'experts' can't seem to figure out that debt is BAD not good.

I am so tired of compromise with economic and social suicide.

As for alienating a racial group the whole concept of categorizing people by race is racist. People are your neighbors from a Christian perspective. They are to be helped as you would want to be helped. I myself do NOT want handouts. I want to earn whatever I receive. The solution is not handouts, but giving those unemployed and those receiving handouts jobs to do.

The candidates running, except for a few, are not sanctioned or even liked by the Republican Party power brokers. They don't want a Bachmann in there. That is why they got Perry to run and that is why he picked the day of the straw poll. They want compromise... they want to continue the growth of government and the extension of its power as that extends their power.

I would like to see the elimination of the GSEs and the Marking to Market of the assets of the banks. If they fail, the banks who did not make those mistakes will use their assets to buy up the distressed assets of the failed banks at true market value.

The problem as I see it is we the people... I know we don't like to hear that we are the problem and I don't mean all of the people are the problem... but enough of the people are the problem that the people voted in Obama and the people rejected the principles of the founding fathers. This republic cannot exist, and our freedoms and prosperity cannot be maintained, by any counterfeit principles. Unless we return to the principles and beliefs of the founders we will cease to exist as the America of the past. We too will go the way of all nations that reject those principles.

I could go on and on but the gist of it is we need to return to our foundations and to the beliefs and principles and faith of our fathers. We need to return it this faith as individuals. If we don't they told us what would happen... read Washington and Lincoln and Franklin and the others and read history... we are not a special case.

Consider the case... we cannot do wrong without consequence.

Rowland says

The person of Christian faith who has a mature understanding of that faith is told to "love his neighbor as himself"... just consider what this means. Never cheat or deceive or endanger your neighbor... who is his neighbor? Everyman. What about enemies? The Christian is told to love his enemies. Does that mean he is not to defend against the evil a person might do.... No it means that a Christian should stand against evil carry out justice without malice or hatred of the individual.

The right wing interprets Jesus on taxes (supposed "historian" Barton interprets Jesus)

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2011/03/jesus-hates-minimum-wage.html

"jesus had teachings about minimum wage?" Really, at a time when slavery was still common?

Jon Stewart talking to Huckabbee about Barton.
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/jon-stewart-grills-mike-huckabee-on-david-barton-quotes-video-1

Lawrence Odonnell on Rush Limbaughs twisted voiews about Jesus and taxes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42756956#42756956

Moreon Barton.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/4366/jesus_hates_taxes%3A_biblical_capitalism_created_fertile_anti-union_soil/

Apparently what the bible says about slavery applies to workers in America today?

Down with unions !!!!

Agree---go visit Maxkeiser.com and see what he says. Its all about savers versus gamblers. What happened to price discovery? It is an attack on sovereignty. The IMF against all countries (Except the few who told them to get out! Iceland and Venezuela. Its also the fed against the people of the USA. They play and we pay.

marcus says

Moreon Barton.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/4366/jesus_hates_taxes%3A_biblical_capitalism_created_fertile_anti-union_soil/

Two days after the November 2010 elections, Barton, Newt Gingrich, and Jim Garlow (who runs Gingrich’s Renewing American Leadership group), held a conference call with pastors to celebrate conservative political gains. On the call, Garlow and Barton asserted a biblical underpinning for far-right economic policies: Taxation and deficit spending, they said, amount to theft, a violation of the Ten Commandments. The estate tax, Barton said, is “absolutely condemned” by the Bible as the “most immoral” of taxes. Jesus, he said, had “teachings” condemning the capital gains tax and minimum wage.

I think you made an unintentional pun there.

I wonder what his views on "Jubilee Years", the Shmita, Giving your own coat to the poor, washing their feet, etc. are?

I'm sure his theology is "Biblical Literalism Pick and Choose" at it's very best.

A few months ago, I got a phone call from a polling service gathering perceptions of political parties. I was asked to give three adjectives, and three adjectives only, to describe my views of each party.

For Republicans I used mean-spirited, dishonest, corrupt
For Democrats I used incompetent, cowardly, dishonest

Unfortunately, there are precious few politicians in office these days worth more than a buck and quarter. Anyone remember when statesmen actually existed?

Truthplease,

I dropped out in 2008 for a lot of the same reasons.

GOP was no longer the "big tent" party and became increasingly run by crackpots and zealots.

I got sick and tired of it and left. Welcome to exile!

Vicente says

I got sick and tired of it and left. Welcome to exile!

Okay, that is what I was looking for. So I am definately not the only one who is in exile!

Truthplease says

Okay, that is what I was looking for. So I am definately not the only one who is in exile!

I have to believe that if it weren't for human nature, many more of the real moderate conservatives would have left the party. But our nature is to stick with our team, especially after decades of identifying with them.

My hat is off to you for being able to disregard your past allegiance and to base you're views on objectivity. I'm guessing you're not too old. It would be really tough for someone much over 40 to change political party. Although I'm sure it happens occasionally.

(by the way - I'm not saying the democrats are so much better - money has become far too big a factor for both sides. Talk about wasted and misdirected time and enregy !)

I am 38 years young! I am having a hard time with both parties right now.

"The Republican party has more in common with the Taliban in Afghanistan than a political party in a modern democracy."

What an absurd comment. The Taliban is a group full of religious gun touting homophobes who don't think women should have the right to choose. Republicans on the other hand, are, er, never mind... carry on.

HousingWatcher says

What an absurd comment. The Taliban is a group full of religious gun touting homophobes who don't think women should have the right to choose. Republicans on the other hand, are, er, never mind... carry on.

That sums it up perfectly. That's why I became independent after w was elected. Not that it matters the choice is always bad or worse.

I talked to my wife's grandfather this weekend. He is 94 and says all these bank problems happened in the great depression due to deregulation. He said we always keep making the same mistakes. Just a random thought I just had.

Bellingham Bob says

tatupu70 says

Compared to Republicans, they are.

Debt to GDP:

1977-10-01 0.34

1981-10-01 0.32 (Carter reduced 6%)

1993-07-01 0.66 (Reagan/Bush increased 106%)

2001-07-01 0.56 (Clinton reduced 18%)

2009-07-01 0.86 (Bush increased 35%)

2011-04-01 0.96 (Obama increase thus far 11%)

“Nessuna soluzione . . . nessun problema!„

Although I agree with your conclusion that Republicans are worst at dealing with the national debt, I must object to your reasoning.

Let's say a debt is $100. Sally increases the debt by 50%. Then Joe increases the debt by 40%. Sounds like Joe increased the debt less? But let's take a look at the numbers.

$100 Original Debt
$150 Sally increased the debt from $100 to $150 or by $50 (50%)
$210 Joe increased the debt from $150 to $210 or by $60 (40%)

The list of percent increases you give are misleading because the later percentages are based on a greater amount of debt.

A better analysis would be the inflation-adjusted absolute debt increases represented as ratios of a common base such as the minimum positive increase in debt by any presidential term.

The analysis should also include the fact that much, if not most, of the spending in the Obama administration was for items occurred during the Bush administration that were not put on the financial books.

Dan8267 says

The list of percent increases you give are misleading because the later percentages are based on a greater amount of debt.

I agree that this is not a linear thing -- Reagan/Bush 106% was probably less worse than Bush's 35%.

if not most, of the spending in the Obama administration was for items occurred during the Bush administration that were not put on the financial books.

Not sure about that. The increase in gov't spending 2002-2007 was covered by increasing receipts thanks to the bubble economy.

When the bubble economy failed in 2008, receipts fell AND "counter-cyclical" spending increased . . .

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2jL

I don't support the status quo, and never will. I cling on to the belief that we'll finally elect Ron Paul and fix all that is wrong with the nation that gone off the cliff.

Truthplease says

I talked to my wife's grandfather this weekend. He is 94 and says all these bank problems happened in the great depression due to deregulation. He said we always keep making the same mistakes. Just a random thought I just had.

YES INDEED!

The problem is nobody listens to their grands.

OH Gramps, you don't understand our "financial innovation" and how it's the road to riches. You are too old-fashioned and probably senile to understand such things there there just keep quiet now.....

shrekgrinch says

More total bullshit. And you seemed to be turning out to have some hope in that other thread, Dan.

Besides, Obambi is fully on the hook for it no matter how you try to spin the bullshit. His own DNC party chairwoman declared so...officially.

Shrek, have you noticed all the wars Bush started. Turns out they cost money. Lots of of it.

Yes, Obama's policies suck. But essentially, they are the same policies as Bush, and those policies sucked under Bush as well.

Here's an exercise for you Shrek. Sincerely write down in this forum ten reasons why Bush sucked major balls as president. If you do this, I'll reward you with ten reasons why Obama sucks as president. Would that make you happy? Btw, this should be a cakewalk assignment even for you.